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Author Topic: Jan and Dean's Carnival of Sound-I'm confused  (Read 2142 times)
Joel Goldenberg
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« on: April 26, 2017, 06:17:45 AM »

As is well known here, while Jan Berry arranged and produced the 1967-68 Carnival of Sound sessions, he was barely able to speak as a result of his April 12, 1966 accident. Yet, on a Jan and Dean forum, Jan is said by Mark A. Moore to have sang the Laurel and Hardy demo, albeit with just the lyrics "la, la, la,"and not badly. Was this demo done before the accident? There's also a reference on that forum to  Jan doubling some leads on the album.
The forum is at http://jananddean-janberry.com/boards/index.php?topic=94.0
The quote from Mark is "Yeah, the "Laurel & Hardy" demo is Jan singing . . . La-la-la . . ."
Just like some clarification.


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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2017, 08:52:34 AM »

The "La-La-La" demo was recorded by Jan in 1968 to help demonstrate the melody for the lead vocal. It wasn't a good vocal by Jan. He was trying to show what he wanted. Andrew Sandoval included it on the album because the stellar backing track is in stereo. There is otherwise not a stereo version of "Laurel & Hardy" on the Carnival of Sound release (Rhino Handmade, 2010).

Jan could speak better than you think in 1967 and 1968. But he still couldn't sing yet.

During the April 1967 session for "Light My Fire," Jan is heard saying . . . "Well, I can play over. I can pay extra!" . . . and other stuff. His speech was halting but he was able to communicate.

In November 1967 Jan testified in court during the Paramount lawsuit that resulted from the 1965 train accident that ended Jan & Dean's feature film Easy Come, Easy Go. The transcript provides a fascinating example of someone with aphasia and verbal apraxia answering questions from authorities while under oath. Jan was hyper and disruptive during the proceedings, but he was also funny. . He would interrupt the attorneys. At one point he said: "Let me say one thing. Now, you are a lawyer, and you are a lawyer. Right? But when we go to court, you and you—wait a minute. Slowly—in court, you sit down, and you sit down, but then you fight him, and he fights you. Isn’t that right? Isn’t that right?" . . . When an attorney asked Jan if anyone yelled "Look out!" before the locomotive impact, Jan said: "Lookit, when they crash, you can’t even remember anything, or how, or who, or what. They just scream, hey, who, you don’t know. God-damn. It is not important." . . . The full transcript is something else, and hilarious in places.

So yeah . . . It wasn't always easy to converse with him, but Jan could communicate better than most people think at that stage of his recovery. He would also "play dumb" at times to get what he wanted.


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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 08:57:38 AM »

Jan did not double any lead vocals on Carnival of Sound. I think he did a few words here and there, like "Silently" on "Love and Hate." And you can hear him speaking during the banter at the end of "Mulholland."
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Joel Goldenberg
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2017, 11:30:04 AM »

Thanks for this wonderful info. I'm heartened that Jan was able to communicate  at that stage. The few sources I read years ago implied that he couldn't even speak at all until later. Glad that's wrong.
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joshferrell
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2017, 12:10:24 PM »

Who is singing lead on the songs? can you list them song by song please? thanks  Grin
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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 01:46:28 PM »

Who is singing lead on the songs? can you list them song by song please? thanks  Grin


The leads for "Hawaii," "Fan Tan," and "Love and Hate" were apparently composites, likely by Ron Hicklin and Glen Campbell

All of the other leads were Ron Hicklin and Tom Bahler.


CARNIVAL OF SOUND, 1967-1968 (Warner Bros.)

All vocal sessions were held at United Recording (A & B) and Western Recorders (2 & 3), except "Only A Boy" (Columbia Square)

"Tijuana" and "Yakety Yak" were recorded but were not slated for inclusion on the album.


SONGS:

"Fan Tan" — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); Glen Campbell; Ian Freebairn-Smith; Jerry Fuller; Jill Gibson; Tony Minichiello

"Hawaii" — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); Glen Campbell; Stan Farber; Jill Gibson; Tony Minichiello; Bob Zwirn; (Jan Berry is also listed on one of the contracts as a vocalist).

"Love and Hate" — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); Glen Campbell; Stan Farber; Jill Gibson; Tony Minichiello; Bob Zwirn; (Jan Berry is also listed on one of the contracts as a vocalist).

"Tijuana" — Vocalists: Glen Campbell (lead); Tony Minichiello; (Jan Berry is also listed on one of the contracts as a vocalist).

"Louisiana Man" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); John Bahler; Tom Bahler; Stan Farber; Mitch Gordon

"Stay" [pre-accident origin]  — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); John Bahler; Tom Bahler; Stan Farber; Mitch Gordon

"In the Still of the Night" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); John Bahler; Stan Farber; Mitch Gordon; Davy Jones (spoken interlude)

"Yakety Yak" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Ron Hicklin (lead); John Bahler; Tom Bahler; Stan Farber; Mitch Gordon

"Laurel and Hardy" — Vocalists: Tom Bahler (lead); Ron Hicklin; Bob Tebow; B. J. Baker; Gwen Johnson; Davy Jones (lead vocal demo only); Tony Minichiello (lead rehearsal take)

"I Know My Mind" ["Free, Free, Free"] — Vocalists: Tom Bahler (lead); Ron Hicklin; Bob Tebow; B. J. Baker; Gwen Johnson; Tony Minichiello (lead rehearsal take)

"Carnival of Sound" ["Deeper and Harder"] — Vocalists: Tom Bahler (lead); Ron Hicklin; Bob Tebow; B. J. Baker; Gwen Johnson; Tony Minichiello (lead rehearsal take)

"Mulholland" ["Grasshopper," "Mysterious Things Are Happening"] — Vocalists: Tom Bahler (lead); Ron Hicklin; Bob Tebow; B. J. Baker; Gwen Johnson; Tony Minichiello (lead rehearsal take)

"Girl, You're Blowing My Mind" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Glen Campbell (lead); The backing vocalists are not clear, but some combination of the people listed above.

"Only A Boy" [pre-accident origin] — Vocalists: Jan Berry; Dean Torrence. Pre-accident vocals recorded at Columbia Square. Completed pre-accident. Augmented post-accident.


Full session details are in my book, The Jan & Dean Record.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 01:47:33 PM by Mark A. Moore » Logged

joshferrell
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 06:16:54 PM »

Thanks,,,, it's funny because I always thought "Louisiana Man" sounded a little bit earlier based on the horn arrangements and "Only a Boy" sounded (to me) like something from "Folk and Roll"... so I guess this confirms that they are earlier like I suspected,,,also the singer you mentioned sounds like Jan on a lot of the songs "I know my mind" could have fooled me,,,,lol,,,
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Joel Goldenberg
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 07:38:00 PM »

Thanks,,,, it's funny because I always thought "Louisiana Man" sounded a little bit earlier based on the horn arrangements and "Only a Boy" sounded (to me) like something from "Folk and Roll"... so I guess this confirms that they are earlier like I suspected,,,also the singer you mentioned sounds like Jan on a lot of the songs "I know my mind" could have fooled me,,,,lol,,,
Could have fooled me too, just like Dean sounds like Jan to me on the Columbia version of Yellow Balloon, one of my all-time favorite songs.
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2017, 09:03:30 AM »

Mark, I have a few questions that have been kinda bugging me about this whole Carnival of Sound saga. If you took the time to answer, I would greatly appreciate it!

Anyways, first off, why was the decision made not to include the version of "Louisiana Man" with Dean on lead? I know that though it was started by Jan (and later finished in his own version with Ron Hicklin on lead), Dean did add a lead vocal and complete a version, which was then released as the b-side for "Like a Summer Rain." I don't see a nice new Jan & Dean hits package even coming out soon, much less a rarities or b-sides release, so it seems like Carnival of Sound would've been the place to put Dean's finished "Louisiana Man," whether as track in the album order, or at least as a bonus.

Secondly, I think I remember reading in somebody's book that "Hawaii" and "Fan Tan" were actually based on music written by  Jill Gibson and I basically inferred that this meant Jan didn't actually write the music nor the lyrics. Is that true, or did Jan indeed co-write those songs? Music and/or lyrics? I'm super interested in knowing what he was capable of by this time.

Two last questions then, and I know these are tough ones.

First, have you ever discerned why on earth Jan wouldn't go along and let Columbia release Save For A Rainy Day and then release his stuff as well, all under the "Jan & Dean" banner? Was he just too proud to relinquish the reins? Parental advice? Bitter that he had the accident and Dean was in good shape?

Secondly, why wasn't it Dean singing lead on at least some of Jan's post accident '60s work? Did Dean choose not to participate due to bad blood over Jan rejecting the Columbia offer? Or was Jan mad about Dean not visiting him enough after the accident? Or did it just not occur to Jan? I mean, I really like some of the Carnival of Sound stuff like "Girl, You're Blowing My Mind", "Hawaii" and "Fan Tan" and I could even see how they could've been hits in an alternate dimension, but wouldn't it have but really odd if they had hit singles as "Jan & Dean" that had neither Jan nor Dean vocally present? Maybe, maybe not.

Anyways, I've tried to get discussion going on the Jan Berry forum from time to time, but real scholarly discussion didn't seem to happen all that much, and the obsession with hoisting Jan's accomplishments over Brian's got old. Brian is awesome, and Jan was pretty great himself, though Brian has a Pet Sounds LP to his name. Enough said.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 09:05:36 AM by sweetdudejim » Logged
Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2017, 02:34:35 PM »

Mark, I have a few questions that have been kinda bugging me about this whole Carnival of Sound saga. If you took the time to answer, I would greatly appreciate it!

Anyways, first off, why was the decision made not to include the version of "Louisiana Man" with Dean on lead? I know that though it was started by Jan (and later finished in his own version with Ron Hicklin on lead), Dean did add a lead vocal and complete a version, which was then released as the b-side for "Like a Summer Rain." I don't see a nice new Jan & Dean hits package even coming out soon, much less a rarities or b-sides release, so it seems like Carnival of Sound would've been the place to put Dean's finished "Louisiana Man," whether as track in the album order, or at least as a bonus.


After the accident, Jan retrieved his masters from Columbia Square to continue working on them. Dean had also gone there to do the same thing, but soon found out that he did not have the legal authority to do so. All of Dean’s self-released J&D Record Co. singles and Save For A Rainy Day album (JD101 mono) were shut down by Screen Gems for breach of contract. They killed the singles and the album was dead on arrival. That’s why they never saw distribution.


Secondly, I think I remember reading in somebody's book that "Hawaii" and "Fan Tan" were actually based on music written by  Jill Gibson and I basically inferred that this meant Jan didn't actually write the music nor the lyrics. Is that true, or did Jan indeed co-write those songs? Music and/or lyrics? I'm super interested in knowing what he was capable of by this time.


Jan co-wrote all of the material, and arranged and produced it, basically using the same methods as before the accident. Jan had always worked with collaborators before the accident. The guys he worked with most, Don Altfeld and Roger Christian, were lyricists only. Jan was usually melody and arrangement first, while sometimes contributing lyrics. After the accident, it was just a really painstaking process. He had writing sessions with collaborators, and he had arranging sessions with George Tipton, Bill Stafford, and Robert Porter. Don and Jill briefly stepped in to help in early ’67, on the songwriting end. Jill was good with melody, but she never wrote songs on her own, even before the accident. She always worked with collaborators. It would make sense that she contributed melody to “Hawaii,” “Fan Tan,” and “Love and Hate.” Jan’s speech therapist Vivian Sheehan was the first one to encourage him to write “Fan Tan.”


Two last questions then, and I know these are tough ones.

First, have you ever discerned why on earth Jan wouldn't go along and let Columbia release Save For A Rainy Day and then release his stuff as well, all under the "Jan & Dean" banner? Was he just too proud to relinquish the reins? Parental advice? Bitter that he had the accident and Dean was in good shape?


Not tough at all. The story that Jan killed Dean’s Columbia release is a false narrative. Having had his self-released material shut down by Screen Gems, Dean tried once again to make a business deal with Columbia on behalf of Jan & Dean, which Dean had no authority to make. Unfortunately for Dean, all of Jan’s contracts with Screen Gems from before the accident remained active after the accident. As always, Screen Gems controlled everything on the business end—Jan’s production and songwriting contracts, J&D’s artist/recording contract, and their record label contract. Dean put Columbia in an embarrassing bind when he teamed with Don Zaccaglini to make a deal with Columbia without the legal authority to do so. Dean had also not bothered to get Jan’s signature as part of the artist agreement. Screen Gems promptly hit Columbia with a cease-and-desist order. As a result, the “Yellow Balloon” single evaporated and the Columbia version of Dean’s album never saw distribution beyond a handful of copies. Jan’s ego was always a factor. He was not used to not being fully in charge, and when you add his new expressive impairment to the mix, it was a volatile situation.


Secondly, why wasn't it Dean singing lead on at least some of Jan's post accident '60s work? Did Dean choose not to participate due to bad blood over Jan rejecting the Columbia offer? Or was Jan mad about Dean not visiting him enough after the accident? Or did it just not occur to Jan? I mean, I really like some of the Carnival of Sound stuff like "Girl, You're Blowing My Mind", "Hawaii" and "Fan Tan" and I could even see how they could've been hits in an alternate dimension, but wouldn't it have but really odd if they had hit singles as "Jan & Dean" that had neither Jan nor Dean vocally present? Maybe, maybe not.


After the Columbia debacle, Screen Gems made a concerted effort to bring both sides together, and to keep Columbia in the mix. Jan’s attorneys and Screen Gems made a productive counter offer that would have allowed the release of Save For A Rainy Day (as is, but tentatively titled Yellow Balloon), provided that Columbia would purchase Jan’s new masters—“Hawaii,” “Fan Tan,” and “Love and Hate,” which would count toward the next release. Moreover, Jan would be the producer going forward, and not Don Zaccaglini. Columbia readily agreed to that proposal—but Dean did not. Thus, Dean passed on the opportunity to have his album officially released on a major label and backed by a major music corporation. When Jan’s team and Screen Gems forged a new record deal with Warner Bros.-Seven Arts, Screen Gems insisted that Dean sign the contract in order to use the Jan & Dean name. Dean signed, and was paid via the artist contract, but did not otherwise participate going forward. The deal stipulated that Jan could record on his own, with Dean, or with a third party—but the name would be Jan & Dean regardless (as it had been before the accident).


Anyways, I've tried to get discussion going on the Jan Berry forum from time to time, but real scholarly discussion didn't seem to happen all that much, and the obsession with hoisting Jan's accomplishments over Brian's got old. Brian is awesome, and Jan was pretty great himself, though Brian has a Pet Sounds LP to his name. Enough said.


I’ve never seen anyone hoist Jan’s accomplishments over Brian’s. From my perspective, that’s a long-standing false narrative perpetuated by Beach Boys and Brian Wilson aficionados.


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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2017, 06:46:43 PM »

YES! I try to have J&D discussions all the time on here, but people argue over who was better JB or BW. The J&D forum is kind of dead, and there isn't much going on there... Anyway, I love Carnival Of Sound and Save For A Rainy Day. I think they prove that J&D could have been very successful in the psychedelic era. Save For A Rainy Day is cool because I think it was finally Dean proving himself as a capable artist. He was now at the helm of J&D music, and he recorded some great songs. "Like A Summer Rain" is one of my alltime favorite songs. Great vocals, lyrics, melody, production, everything.

Save For A Rainy Day is very lo-fi production, like the BBs Wild Honey album, but Carnival of Sound is definetly a Wall Of Sound type record.
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2017, 08:10:53 PM »

Would the Columbia Save For A Rainy Day have included the hi-fi Yellow Balloon and the low-fi other tracks, but in stereo? One wonders if there was any thought or attempt at re-recording the other tracks in higher fidelity.
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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2017, 10:18:16 PM »

Would the Columbia Save For A Rainy Day have included the hi-fi Yellow Balloon and the low-fi other tracks, but in stereo? One wonders if there was any thought or attempt at re-recording the other tracks in higher fidelity.

The Columbia version of "Yellow Balloon" had been re-recorded with a better arrangement. The rest of the album was tweaked and re-mixed for stereo. Both the mono and stereo versions were released on the Sundazed compilation in 1996. The original stereo versions of what appeared on that disc would have been what Columbia released if Dean had accepted the counter proposal from Jan's attorneys and Screen Gems.
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2017, 05:30:22 AM »

I wish Save For A Rainy Day and Carnival Of Sound would/could have been released in their day. I think they would've been extremely successful with proper promotion. I don't think they are as good as Pet Sounds (nothing really is), but I think Carnival Of Sound is just as good as Sgt. Pepper. There's something about Jan's arrangements, that just never fail to blow me away. Songs "Girl, You're Blowing My Mind", "Fan Tan", and "I Know My Mind" could have been very successful I think. Save For A Rainy Day is less commercial in my mind, but I think it would have kept the J&D name alive, and proved Dean as an artist, so maybe he could have more of a say in the records, which I think he had certainly earned by 1966.
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Joel Goldenberg
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2017, 09:48:23 AM »

Would the Columbia Save For A Rainy Day have included the hi-fi Yellow Balloon and the low-fi other tracks, but in stereo? One wonders if there was any thought or attempt at re-recording the other tracks in higher fidelity.

The Columbia version of "Yellow Balloon" had been re-recorded with a better arrangement. The rest of the album was tweaked and re-mixed for stereo. Both the mono and stereo versions were released on the Sundazed compilation in 1996. The original stereo versions of what appeared on that disc would have been what Columbia released if Dean had accepted the counter proposal from Jan's attorneys and Screen Gems.
Thanks again. I fully agree that the Columbia Yellow Balloon has an infinitely better arrangement than the original version, as well as the version by the group The Yellow Balloon. However, there's, if I'm not mistaken, a unique string arrangement near the end of the original that's so wistful I kind of associate it with the sad feeling surrounding Jan's then-recent accident.
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2017, 10:46:18 AM »


Anyways, first off, why was the decision made not to include the version of "Louisiana Man" with Dean on lead? I know that though it was started by Jan (and later finished in his own version with Ron Hicklin on lead), Dean did add a lead vocal and complete a version, which was then released as the b-side for "Like a Summer Rain." I don't see a nice new Jan & Dean hits package even coming out soon, much less a rarities or b-sides release, so it seems like Carnival of Sound would've been the place to put Dean's finished "Louisiana Man," whether as track in the album order, or at least as a bonus.



I love that version! Dean made some overdubs onto Jan's pre-accident track iirc. You got to give Dean credit for trying to get things done while Jan was recovering. I think this "Louisiana man" is better and also commercially stronger than the COS version.

The Carnival Of Sound album - especially the original songs - is something else. Pop music at it's best imo. And a big compliment to the singers who did a fantastic job. It's not Jan&Dean singing, but it definitely has that feel.
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2017, 11:20:49 AM »

<<Thanks again. I fully agree that the Columbia Yellow Balloon has an infinitely better arrangement than the original version.>>

For my money, different, not better. I love the original version, in terms of tempo and production.  It sounds more like a Jan & Dean record.  More punch.  And Gary Zekeley obviously agreed, as the tempo matches his Yellow Balloon version.  The CBS mix sounds more like a Turtles record which. I assume, was intentional.
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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2017, 11:51:41 AM »


[/quote]

The Columbia version of "Yellow Balloon" had been re-recorded with a better arrangement. The rest of the album was tweaked and re-mixed for stereo. Both the mono and stereo versions were released on the Sundazed compilation in 1996. The original stereo versions of what appeared on that disc would have been what Columbia released if Dean had accepted the counter proposal from Jan's attorneys and Screen Gems.
[/quote]

sadly not entirely true... missing from the Sundazed compilation was the stereo version of "Like A Summer Rain", so if you wanted to put together your own stereo version of the lp, you couldn't.  If anyone has a copy of this track in stereo, I'd appreciate a PM

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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2017, 06:37:16 AM »

Hey, Mark,  the detailed info you provided above prompted me to get your Jan and Dean book on Amazon Kindle (Canadian version). The price keeps changing-mostly $40, then at one time $90 or so, then back to $40, then $43 yesterday and $31 today. Just downloaded it now. Looking forward to the read!
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2017, 07:33:48 AM »

Just intensely read your details on Jan's accident. Wow! Lots of info I never knew, such as Jan's car hitting the curb first and then going out of control. I knew about stupid writers saying three people died in Jan's car, always made me angry.
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« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2017, 02:55:29 AM »

Hey, Mark,  the detailed info you provided above prompted me to get your Jan and Dean book on Amazon Kindle (Canadian version). The price keeps changing-mostly $40, then at one time $90 or so, then back to $40, then $43 yesterday and $31 today. Just downloaded it now. Looking forward to the read!

The price of the book is outrageous. I'm currently writing a biography of Jan Berry that will be published early next year. It will be more affordable than the reference book.
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« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2017, 03:01:35 AM »

Just intensely read your details on Jan's accident. Wow! Lots of info I never knew, such as Jan's car hitting the curb first and then going out of control. I knew about stupid writers saying three people died in Jan's car, always made me angry.

Yeah, myths and misinformation about Jan's car accident have been perpetuated for years.
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« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2017, 11:53:26 AM »

Hey Mark, I payed $80 for the book, which I was HAPPY to do!! I read the book everyday! I have learned so much from it. It is both fun and informational. After you do Jan's biography, what do you think about releasing Jan's charts, if you had permission? There are so many J&D songs I'd love to play, but most of the chords and such on the internet are inaccurate.
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« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2017, 11:57:39 AM »

Just intensely read your details on Jan's accident. Wow! Lots of info I never knew, such as Jan's car hitting the curb first and then going out of control. I knew about stupid writers saying three people died in Jan's car, always made me angry.

Yeah, myths and misinformation about Jan's car accident have been perpetuated for years.

It's all from a poorly-worded article in the Times, yes?  Something along the lines of "Singer injured, three others killed in LA accidents" - people not noticing the plural.  I'm paraphrasing.
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« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2017, 01:28:40 PM »

Hey Mark, I payed $80 for the book, which I was HAPPY to do!! I read the book everyday! I have learned so much from it. It is both fun and informational. After you do Jan's biography, what do you think about releasing Jan's charts, if you had permission? There are so many J&D songs I'd love to play, but most of the chords and such on the internet are inaccurate.

As I mentioned on the other forum, that's something I'll be working on. Not just the chords, but all authentic parts for bass, drums, percussion, brass, woodwinds, and strings.
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