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Author Topic: What if Be With Me had been on Pet Sounds?  (Read 1390 times)
CenturyDeprived
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« on: April 14, 2017, 10:04:05 AM »

Firstly, it never ceases to amaze me how good a song Be With Me is. I think it works on every level and is basically perfect - even with its vocal double tracking lyric glitch. And I totally dig all of its lyrics, even if they are a bit simplistic here and there.

And to my ears, unlike virtually any other song in the entire catalog, it seems to be THE only song that could have naturally fit onto and have been put onto Pet Sounds (had it actually been recorded a couple years earlier, of course). I mean, there are certainly tons of other mindblowing songs in the BBs' catalog that approach (or occasionally even top) Pet Sounds quality... but Be With Me just nails the production/vibe of the Pet Sounds album, although it also has its own slightly dark energy that is uniquely its own.

And it's a damn shame how few people outside of hardcore fans even know of this song's existence. I'm just wondering how differently history might have looked at both the song Be With Me, as well as Denny as a musical force, had the song been recorded and released as a track on the Pet Sounds album. I suppose the only criticism I could aim at it is that it could be considered to be aping Brian's sound somewhat, but like I said, I think it also has a slightly sinister energy that is quite different from Brian's tunes, and is different enough to not be considered a "knockoff".
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the captain
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2017, 10:42:25 AM »

Interesting question, but I have to come clean right off the bat and say I don't like the song much at all, so if I were putting another song on Pet Sounds, I definitely wouldn't choose that one. And for what it's worth--nothing--I actually wouldn't change Pet Sounds anyway. I love it as-is.

Obviously a lot of people have played around with "The Little Girl I Once Knew," usually replacing "Sloop John B." I wouldn't remove SLB, but I can see TLGIOK being in there somewhere.

But my choice off the top of my head might be this: "Meant For You." Imagine it kicking off the album, the "Prayer" to "Wouldn't It Be Nice"'s "H&V." It's a pretty little prologue of premeditation. It says "I'm going to tell this story that actually ends somewhat painfully, but it was a beautiful experience, I'm at peace with the journey now, and I'm thinking of you." Then, BOOM, back in time to the excited younger man of "Wouldn't It Be Nice?"
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2017, 11:36:11 AM »

I'm a big fan of Be With Me, but I think it would sound a little out of place on PS.  Of course, that might be because I've heard PS so many times. 

Although my main argument against putting Be With Me on Pet Sounds would be that it would be detrimental to the excellent 20/20 album.
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2017, 03:07:02 PM »

Little Girl I Once Knew should have been there Sad
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2017, 05:19:05 PM »

although it also has its own slightly dark energy that is uniquely its own.

And this is why I think it couldn't work. And man I'd want it to work just because 'Be With Me' is my favorite Dennis song; the honesty and scope of it make it, in theory, seem like it would fit perfectly on Pet Sounds. But 'Be With Me' is living in it's own world...it's like when those horns kick in at the start, you can get a perfect feel for the opulence of the night that Dennis is singing about, you can get a feel of the cold windy night he's walking through. That the song is kind of in its own world makes it a perfect fit on 20/20, which is a complete clusterfuck of great individual ideas poorly implemented in album form. It makes me wish that Brian had later on chosen Dennis to be a main lyrical/idea collaborator for an album.

CenturyDeprived, where would you place 'Be With Me' on Pet Sounds?
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2017, 05:48:47 PM »

although it also has its own slightly dark energy that is uniquely its own.

And this is why I think it couldn't work. And man I'd want it to work just because 'Be With Me' is my favorite Dennis song; the honesty and scope of it make it, in theory, seem like it would fit perfectly on Pet Sounds. But 'Be With Me' is living in it's own world...it's like when those horns kick in at the start, you can get a perfect feel for the opulence of the night that Dennis is singing about, you can get a feel of the cold windy night he's walking through. That the song is kind of in its own world makes it a perfect fit on 20/20, which is a complete clusterfuck of great individual ideas poorly implemented in album form. It makes me wish that Brian had later on chosen Dennis to be a main lyrical/idea collaborator for an album.

CenturyDeprived, where would you place 'Be With Me' on Pet Sounds?

I think it could fit in decently after I Just Wasn't Made For These Times. I honestly don't really think it would feel out of place there. IJWMFTT is where the moodiest parts of the album are, IMO... so it would just get that much more moodier, before resolving with the trippy tropical Pet Sounds instrumental track.

I think if BWM had been included on the album (assuming it had been written and completed at that time), people would suddenly have taken notice in a FAR bigger way of Denny's talents. It almost feels like any BB track has to have been on either Pet Sounds or Smile for anyone outside of the hardcores to take notice... unfortunately. But I think BWM has the goods, and happens to fit in PERFECTLY with the PS album.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 06:00:19 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2017, 07:37:49 PM »

It's a very different vibe than the album, altho it does fits the concept i gotta say and i'm all for more Dennis vocals on Pet Sounds, In The Back Of My Mind would have fit so well near the end, god
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2017, 08:42:45 PM »

It's a very different vibe than the album, altho it does fits the concept i gotta say and i'm all for more Dennis vocals on Pet Sounds, In The Back Of My Mind would have fit so well near the end, god


I know what you're saying. It's such a perfect album, yet Dennis vocals would make it even better.

Other than the possible Denny vocals at the end of each verse in IJWMFTT (it's still just an educated guess that it's Denny here, right?), what other songs have clearly identifiable Denny vocals on the album?  

There aren't any other songs with lead vocal lines by him, but off of the top of my head, I also can't necessarily really think about where I hear his voice particularly peeking out that I can really clearly identify him in the harmony stack on the album. Would love to have an example or two pointed out to me if anyone hears Denny on the record.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 08:45:16 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2017, 09:17:17 PM »

Firstly, it never ceases to amaze me how good a song Be With Me is. I think it works on every level and is basically perfect - even with its vocal double tracking lyric glitch.

I never saw it as a "glitch" - I like to think it was intentional, like he couldn't decide between two words, so he sang both of them in that spot. Doesn't "Moonshine" from POB have a similar spot?
EDIT: I meant to say "Moonshine" from POBSmiley
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 08:00:31 AM by c-man » Logged
CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2017, 09:43:08 PM »

Firstly, it never ceases to amaze me how good a song Be With Me is. I think it works on every level and is basically perfect - even with its vocal double tracking lyric glitch.

I never saw it as a "glitch" - I like to think it was intentional, like he couldn't decide between two words, so he sang both of them in that spot. Doesn't "Moonlight" from POB have a similar spot?

Interesting… Yeah, both songs have that "glitch", or "quirk"… I never thought that it could've been on purpose, but I suppose that's always possible. An interesting thought.
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2017, 12:46:00 AM »

Firstly, it never ceases to amaze me how good a song Be With Me is. I think it works on every level and is basically perfect - even with its vocal double tracking lyric glitch. And I totally dig all of its lyrics, even if they are a bit simplistic here and there.

And to my ears, unlike virtually any other song in the entire catalog, it seems to be THE only song that could have naturally fit onto and have been put onto Pet Sounds (had it actually been recorded a couple years earlier, of course). I mean, there are certainly tons of other mindblowing songs in the BBs' catalog that approach (or occasionally even top) Pet Sounds quality... but Be With Me just nails the production/vibe of the Pet Sounds album, although it also has its own slightly dark energy that is uniquely its own.

And it's a damn shame how few people outside of hardcore fans even know of this song's existence. I'm just wondering how differently history might have looked at both the song Be With Me, as well as Denny as a musical force, had the song been recorded and released as a track on the Pet Sounds album. I suppose the only criticism I could aim at it is that it could be considered to be aping Brian's sound somewhat, but like I said, I think it also has a slightly sinister energy that is quite different from Brian's tunes, and is different enough to not be considered a "knockoff".
Be with Me wouldn't have hurt the vibe of Pet Sounds if it had been released at the time and included on it, but I disagree with your opinion I underlined.
I think two particular songs around Summer Days era- Let Him Run Wild and Sherry She Needs Me would have done VERY well on Pet Sounds - both lyrically and musically.(Some additional recordings would've been needed, though).

I doubt that Little Girl I Once Knew would've fit on Pet Sounds in the place of Sloop John B. Its lyrics are simpler than any of 11 songs, and too fun- I mean, it would've fit musically, but its lyrics is not so much as 'deep' as other songs on there, then it wouldn't have fit on Pet Sounds, especially in the place of Pet Sounds compared to LHRW and SSNM.
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2017, 01:33:40 AM »

I disagree, i think it reflects some topics of the album such as Caroline, No
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2017, 01:47:27 AM »

Firstly, it never ceases to amaze me how good a song Be With Me is. I think it works on every level and is basically perfect - even with its vocal double tracking lyric glitch. And I totally dig all of its lyrics, even if they are a bit simplistic here and there.

And to my ears, unlike virtually any other song in the entire catalog, it seems to be THE only song that could have naturally fit onto and have been put onto Pet Sounds (had it actually been recorded a couple years earlier, of course). I mean, there are certainly tons of other mindblowing songs in the BBs' catalog that approach (or occasionally even top) Pet Sounds quality... but Be With Me just nails the production/vibe of the Pet Sounds album, although it also has its own slightly dark energy that is uniquely its own.

And it's a damn shame how few people outside of hardcore fans even know of this song's existence. I'm just wondering how differently history might have looked at both the song Be With Me, as well as Denny as a musical force, had the song been recorded and released as a track on the Pet Sounds album. I suppose the only criticism I could aim at it is that it could be considered to be aping Brian's sound somewhat, but like I said, I think it also has a slightly sinister energy that is quite different from Brian's tunes, and is different enough to not be considered a "knockoff".
Be with Me wouldn't have hurt the vibe of Pet Sounds if it had been released at the time and included on it, but I disagree with your opinion I underlined.
I think two particular songs around Summer Days era- Let Him Run Wild and Sherry She Needs Me would have done VERY well on Pet Sounds - both lyrically and musically.(Some additional recordings would've been needed, though).

I doubt that Little Girl I Once Knew would've fit on Pet Sounds in the place of Sloop John B. Its lyrics are simpler than any of 11 songs, and too fun- I mean, it would've fit musically, but its lyrics is not so much as 'deep' as other songs on there, then it wouldn't have fit on Pet Sounds, especially in the place of Pet Sounds compared to LHRW and SSNM.

I could see it for Let Him Run Wild, not so sure about SSNM. But I stand by the statement with regards to non Brian-penned tunes! Smiley

And certainly with the *very* small club of songs that could potentially have fit, BWM's inclusion would have had the greatest impact in the context of the band's history, being that it would have shocked the hell out of EVERYONE that Denny had those chops. Just 2.5 years later, few noticed, unfortunately.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 01:54:37 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2017, 08:02:05 AM »

Firstly, it never ceases to amaze me how good a song Be With Me is. I think it works on every level and is basically perfect - even with its vocal double tracking lyric glitch.

I never saw it as a "glitch" - I like to think it was intentional, like he couldn't decide between two words, so he sang both of them in that spot. Doesn't "Moonlight" from POB have a similar spot?

Interesting… Yeah, both songs have that "glitch", or "quirk"… I never thought that it could've been on purpose, but I suppose that's always possible. An interesting thought.

That effect - singing two different words simultaneously - if intentional - is a stroke of genius, or at least true inspiration. One of the many reasons I've always dug Dennis' stuff.
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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2017, 09:47:24 AM »

Firstly, it never ceases to amaze me how good a song Be With Me is. I think it works on every level and is basically perfect - even with its vocal double tracking lyric glitch.

I never saw it as a "glitch" - I like to think it was intentional, like he couldn't decide between two words, so he sang both of them in that spot. Doesn't "Moonlight" from POB have a similar spot?

Interesting… Yeah, both songs have that "glitch", or "quirk"… I never thought that it could've been on purpose, but I suppose that's always possible. An interesting thought.

That effect - singing two different words simultaneously - if intentional - is a stroke of genius, or at least true inspiration. One of the many reasons I've always dug Dennis' stuff.

Maybe he'd been listening to "The Red Telephone" by Love?
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« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2017, 12:24:22 PM »

Firstly, it never ceases to amaze me how good a song Be With Me is. I think it works on every level and is basically perfect - even with its vocal double tracking lyric glitch.

I never saw it as a "glitch" - I like to think it was intentional, like he couldn't decide between two words, so he sang both of them in that spot. Doesn't "Moonlight" from POB have a similar spot?

Interesting… Yeah, both songs have that "glitch", or "quirk"… I never thought that it could've been on purpose, but I suppose that's always possible. An interesting thought.

That effect - singing two different words simultaneously - if intentional - is a stroke of genius, or at least true inspiration. One of the many reasons I've always dug Dennis' stuff.

Maybe he'd been listening to "The Red Telephone" by Love?

This is exactly what I thought of when I read C-Man's above post.
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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2017, 03:00:12 PM »

Firstly, it never ceases to amaze me how good a song Be With Me is. I think it works on every level and is basically perfect - even with its vocal double tracking lyric glitch.

I never saw it as a "glitch" - I like to think it was intentional, like he couldn't decide between two words, so he sang both of them in that spot. Doesn't "Moonlight" from POB have a similar spot?

Interesting… Yeah, both songs have that "glitch", or "quirk"… I never thought that it could've been on purpose, but I suppose that's always possible. An interesting thought.

That effect - singing two different words simultaneously - if intentional - is a stroke of genius, or at least true inspiration. One of the many reasons I've always dug Dennis' stuff.

Maybe he'd been listening to "The Red Telephone" by Love?

This is exactly what I thought of when I read C-Man's above post.

I always kind of assumed that it was a goof on BWM due to perhaps Denny rushing and not doing enough vocal takes to fix mistakes... or maybe record company pressure with deadlines and such. I always assumed that was the reason for oddities that you'll find in multi-tracking on earlier Brian Wilson productions, like whatever happens on Mike's vocal "lean with me" on Little Honda.   I figured that the mistakes were eventually noticed, but at the end of the day the decision was made to say "f*** it, just keep it in".

Yet, in favor of the idea that it was on purpose: it also occurs to me that Denny wasn't cranking out a full album at this point... only a few songs, unlike Brian in say 1964 ... which may have meant Denny had longer to work on them, and more time to better deal with quality control issues and such to fix mistakes (if they really in fact were mistakes).
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 03:01:18 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2017, 04:56:40 AM »

I think two particular songs around Summer Days era- Let Him Run Wild [...] would have done VERY well on Pet Sounds - both lyrically and musically.(Some additional recordings would've been needed, though).

I'm so happy to see somebody else has thought this! I thought I was committing Beach Boys heresy. It kind of reminds me of "Here Today" and especially "I'm Waiting For the Day." That sort of quiet, melancholic verse juxtaposed with a full, almost ironically happy chorus. I think it may have needed some more musical elaboration to truly fit into Pet Sounds, but it's definitely the closest musical link to "Pet Sounds" off "Summer Days."
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« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2017, 08:29:45 AM »

Interesting question, but I have to come clean right off the bat and say I don't like the song much at all, so if I were putting another song on Pet Sounds, I definitely wouldn't choose that one. And for what it's worth--nothing--I actually wouldn't change Pet Sounds anyway. I love it as-is.

Obviously a lot of people have played around with "The Little Girl I Once Knew," usually replacing "Sloop John B." I wouldn't remove SLB, but I can see TLGIOK being in there somewhere.

But my choice off the top of my head might be this: "Meant For You." Imagine it kicking off the album, the "Prayer" to "Wouldn't It Be Nice"'s "H&V." It's a pretty little prologue of premeditation. It says "I'm going to tell this story that actually ends somewhat painfully, but it was a beautiful experience, I'm at peace with the journey now, and I'm thinking of you." Then, BOOM, back in time to the excited younger man of "Wouldn't It Be Nice?"
That's simply a fantastic idea, Captain.
"Meant For You" is pure bliss (and my fav answer to anybody who'd say that Mike isn't a good singer), but of course it is... too short. And yes, it's like a prologue to something that never comes.
But, using it as the prologue to Pet Sounds, of all things... Wow!  
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 09:31:20 AM by thorgil » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2017, 09:23:10 AM »

Interesting question, but I have to come clean right off the bat and say I don't like the song much at all, so if I were putting another song on Pet Sounds, I definitely wouldn't choose that one. And for what it's worth--nothing--I actually wouldn't change Pet Sounds anyway. I love it as-is.

Obviously a lot of people have played around with "The Little Girl I Once Knew," usually replacing "Sloop John B." I wouldn't remove SLB, but I can see TLGIOK being in there somewhere.

But my choice off the top of my head might be this: "Meant For You." Imagine it kicking off the album, the "Prayer" to "Wouldn't It Be Nice"'s "H&V." It's a pretty little prologue of premeditation. It says "I'm going to tell this story that actually ends somewhat painfully, but it was a beautiful experience, I'm at peace with the journey now, and I'm thinking of you." Then, BOOM, back in time to the excited younger man of "Wouldn't It Be Nice?"
That's simply a fantastic idea, Captain.
"Meant For You" is pure bliss (and my fav answer to anybody who'd say that Mike isn't a good singer), but of course it is... too short. And yes, it's like a prologue to something that never comes.
But, using it as the prologue to Pet Sounds, of all things... Wow!  


Ah, but since the MiC boxset came out, we have the rest of Meant for You and it turns out it's a prologue to puppies and horses!

(Which I absolutely adore).
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