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605675 Posts in 24518 Topics by 3484 Members - Latest Member: BeachBoy819 April 24, 2017, 11:49:48 PM
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Author Topic: WIBNTLA on Surf's Up  (Read 1083 times)
Dove Nested Towers
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« on: April 12, 2017, 07:38:52 PM »

There are two versions of the narrative surrounding this track out there that seem irreconcileable on their face. I think it was the late Jack Rieley who told of how WIBNTLA and 4th of July were finally withdrawn from SU in a fit of pique from Dennis when the former was vetoed by Carl as the album closer. He told a very plausible tale of how there was rampant jealousy of DW's stellar work within the band at that time, etc.

But SWD gave an (at least) equally plausible account of how the track was recorded as a demo and casually put on the shelf for band consideration while Dennis went surfing, and he was very skeptical of whether it was ever even seen by the others, much less became a bone of contention for the final album lineup, as most of the material that Dennis left lying around while he went off to do other things was never utilized, and he has no memory of any internal squabbling over the tunes.

How do we reconcile these two very different versions of events? Desper was there and is very meticulous, but Rieley was very present also and may have had more knowledge of band politics, especially as it related to Carl, with whom he was especially close. The demo(s) may have taken a journey subsequent to its recording that Desper was unaware of. It's an interesting story to me, as  it may also be with others, both because of the potential that the album had to be a perfectly introspective piece of work, and to the extent that it might shed some light on the workings of the group at that time. We'll probably simply never know, since SWD has already given a complete accounting of the story to the best of his recollection, for which I am thankful.

Any additional insight or memories, Steve?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 07:43:25 PM by Dove Nested Towers » Logged

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Malc
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2017, 01:51:53 AM »

Rieley was prone to spinning the occasional yarn it seems, such as it was he who thought of SU cover concept, despite the fact that Ed Thrasher saw the image hanging in his fathers study at the time (or somewhere to that effect)... and then there was the Pulitzer Prize story...
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the captain
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2017, 05:49:41 AM »

It's possible--and this is just speculation--that there's some truth in both, and it's a matter of incomplete perspective. There might have been some squabbles that Desper didn't witness or hear of. And so from his perspective it might have seemed like a track just being worked on and then set aside. On the other side of it, it's possible that whatever squabble there may have been was exaggerated by Rieley, who (as Malc correctly points out) was prone to a bit of myth-making here and there.
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2017, 06:37:54 AM »

This. Both accounts are probably true.

It's possible--and this is just speculation--that there's some truth in both, and it's a matter of incomplete perspective. There might have been some squabbles that Desper didn't witness or hear of. And so from his perspective it might have seemed like a track just being worked on and then set aside. On the other side of it, it's possible that whatever squabble there may have been was exaggerated by Rieley, who (as Malc correctly points out) was prone to a bit of myth-making here and there.
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2017, 07:55:19 AM »

What a time though in BBs history, a wealth of great material....
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2017, 07:58:31 AM »

Absolutely. I'm not the biggest Dennis fan--and in fact among hardcore fans, I seem to be the least Dennis fan--but WIBNTLA was pretty dang good, as was a lot of the material from everyone during those years. Al's best stuff, Carl started writing cool stuff, Brian's few but great songs, Mike contributing some good stuff, Bruce contributing music instead of mic stand adjustment...to me, '65-'73 is really special.

I know, I know. I'm really out on a limb there... LOL
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2017, 08:00:23 AM »

Nah, even OSD would agree with you. He raves about the albums and shows he went to from that era....
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2017, 03:30:49 PM »

Also didnt SWD say that the track is just dennis on it, no one else, so it technically wasnt even a "beach boys" track as another reason it wasnt included?

I'm sure that had something to do with it, and I'm not trying to diss SWD as he is great, but arent there plenty of other tracks with only 1 singer on them that were included? Caroline, No comes to mind off the top of my head.
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2017, 05:30:42 PM »

Also didnt SWD say that the track is just dennis on it, no one else, so it technically wasnt even a "beach boys" track as another reason it wasnt included?

I'm sure that had something to do with it, and I'm not trying to diss SWD as he is great, but arent there plenty of other tracks with only 1 singer on them that were included? Caroline, No comes to mind off the top of my head.

Not commenting about the SWD tidbit, but interesting thing about 'Caroline, No' is that it was released as a Brian Wilson solo single - so it especially wasn't technically a Beach Boys track. And Brian Wilson was the only Beach Boy who had a hand in 'LGAFA' and 'Pet Sounds' the song. And, I'm probably wrong here, but does 'I'm Waiting For The Day' have any other Beach Boys singing on it besides Brian (though Mike co-wrote the song so it definitely is a 'group' effort)?
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2017, 08:45:10 AM »

Rieley was prone to spinning the occasional yarn it seems, such as it was he who thought of SU cover concept, despite the fact that Ed Thrasher saw the image hanging in his fathers study at the time (or somewhere to that effect)... and then there was the Pulitzer Prize story...

COMMENT:   Let me just add . . .    Carl and Jack may have worked on this and that, but the "together" part was from the necessity of the situation, not out of love or respect for each other.  Bruce was the first to see through Jack's deceptions and exaggerations, but Carl was soon to follow.

The resurrected image that eventually became the Surf's Up album cover was hanging in Brian's father's office when Brian was a child.

And we now know that Jack never received a Pulitzer Prize for anything, but that deception was not unmasked until late in his Beach Boy association.   
  ~swd
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2017, 09:45:46 AM »

Also didnt SWD say that the track is just dennis on it, no one else, so it technically wasnt even a "beach boys" track as another reason it wasnt included?

I'm sure that had something to do with it, and I'm not trying to diss SWD as he is great, but arent there plenty of other tracks with only 1 singer on them that were included? Caroline, No comes to mind off the top of my head.

Not commenting about the SWD tidbit, but interesting thing about 'Caroline, No' is that it was released as a Brian Wilson solo single - so it especially wasn't technically a Beach Boys track. And Brian Wilson was the only Beach Boy who had a hand in 'LGAFA' and 'Pet Sounds' the song. And, I'm probably wrong here, but does 'I'm Waiting For The Day' have any other Beach Boys singing on it besides Brian (though Mike co-wrote the song so it definitely is a 'group' effort)?

From what is indicated on the track sheet from the 8-track Columbia vocal sessions for "I'm Waiting For The Day", Brian and Mike sang the backgrounds together (including doubling up on the bass vocal part, which I had always thought was just Brian). Of course, this is in addition to Mike's attempt at part of the lead, which was mixed out in favor of Brian's lead. On the other hand, Brian's the only BB on "Don't Talk".
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 09:47:32 AM by c-man » Logged
The LEGENDARY OSD
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2017, 06:29:21 PM »

Also didnt SWD say that the track is just dennis on it, no one else, so it technically wasnt even a "beach boys" track as another reason it wasnt included?

I'm sure that had something to do with it, and I'm not trying to diss SWD as he is great, but arent there plenty of other tracks with only 1 singer on them that were included? Caroline, No comes to mind off the top of my head.

Not commenting about the SWD tidbit, but interesting thing about 'Caroline, No' is that it was released as a Brian Wilson solo single - so it especially wasn't technically a Beach Boys track. And Brian Wilson was the only Beach Boy who had a hand in 'LGAFA' and 'Pet Sounds' the song. And, I'm probably wrong here, but does 'I'm Waiting For The Day' have any other Beach Boys singing on it besides Brian (though Mike co-wrote the song so it definitely is a 'group' effort)?

From what is indicated on the track sheet from the 8-track Columbia vocal sessions for "I'm Waiting For The Day", Brian and Mike sang the backgrounds together (including doubling up on the bass vocal part, which I had always thought was just Brian). Of course, this is in addition to Mike's attempt at part of the lead, which was mixed out in favor of Brian's lead. On the other hand, Brian's the only BB on "Don't Talk".

myKe luHv taking the lead on IWFTD sounds (yep you guessed it) awful. Thank heavens he was nixed from destroying that song. Listening to him embarrassingly strain to reach notes on "Here Today" is far more than should been allocated to that wannabe, but he most likely raised a big stink about being under involved in lead vocals on the album knowing his ego.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Dove Nested Towers
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2017, 08:46:10 PM »

Rieley was prone to spinning the occasional yarn it seems, such as it was he who thought of SU cover concept, despite the fact that Ed Thrasher saw the image hanging in his fathers study at the time (or somewhere to that effect)... and then there was the Pulitzer Prize story...

COMMENT:   Let me just add . . .    Carl and Jack may have worked on this and that, but the "together" part was from the necessity of the situation, not out of love or respect for each other.  Bruce was the first to see through Jack's deceptions and exaggerations, but Carl was soon to follow.

The resurrected image that eventually became the Surf's Up album cover was hanging in Brian's father's office when Brian was a child.

And we now know that Jack never received a Pulitzer Prize for anything, but that deception was not unmasked until late in his Beach Boy association.   
  ~swd

Hello Stephen, thanks for chiming in. Do you have any further recollections at all regarding this song and its provenance as a possible bone of contention between Dennis & Carl for inclusion on SU? I know you already expressed skepticism about that scenario, but Rieley, agenda or no, did seem to have pretty specific memories about it all. Hope you're doing well these days!
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2017, 07:17:42 AM »

Just a general point on Jack Rieley: The guy's story is obviously complex vis--vis the Beach Boys story, and there no doubt were some sketchy things at play. But, both Billy Hinsche and Brian Wilson had kind things to say about Jack upon his passing, and at least in the case of the Beach Boys, they have never seemed to be averse to *not* saying anything nice about someone they don't want to say anything nice about.

Brian's comments seemed to indicate some level of affection and appreciation for Jack. Same goes for Billy's comments. Just something worth keeping in mind.
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