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609925 Posts in 24653 Topics by 3514 Members - Latest Member: FredGroman June 28, 2017, 12:15:04 PM
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Author Topic: You're So Good To Me and Lonely Sea by The Beatles?  (Read 1933 times)
Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2017, 11:50:30 AM »

Were the Beatles *massive* fans of the Beach Boys "all along?" I guess it depends on how one defines "massive." I've said many times that McCartney was only member who regularly even brought Brian and the BBs up (I've tallied so far one instance I can find where Harrison and Lennon even say the band's name;

Does that include Harrison putting two Beach Boys singles in his jukebox in 1966? I don't think that makes him a massive fan, but given that they accounted for 1/20th of his choices suggests he was certainly a fan.

I agree with your point about the defensive inferiority complex.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 11:54:53 AM by Chocolate Shake Man » Logged
HeyJude
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« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2017, 11:57:48 AM »

Were the Beatles *massive* fans of the Beach Boys "all along?" I guess it depends on how one defines "massive." I've said many times that McCartney was only member who regularly even brought Brian and the BBs up (I've tallied so far one instance I can find where Harrison and Lennon even say the band's name;

Does that include Harrison include two Beach Boys singles in his jukebox in 1966? I don't think that makes him a massive fan, but given that they accounted for 1/20th of his choices suggests he was certainly a fan.

I agree with your point about the defensive inferiority complex.

It's tough, especially with George gone. Dhani Harrison recently inducted ELO in the R&R Hall of Fame and mentioned that his Dad was a huge ELO fan. But, back before George met Jeff Lynne, was George really a *huge* ELO fan? Even in the Jeff Lynne/ELO "Mr. Blue Sky" documentary, George's wife Olivia says George had "Telephone Line" in his jukebox and kind if seems to imply that was the extent of his ELO fandom for the most part. Does having a single or two of a band in his jukebox make him a major, massive fan?

Whether right or wrong, I'd wager every member of the Beach Boys listened to every single one of the Beatles albums released between 1962 (or 64 for the US) and 1970. Every Beatles album. Whereas, I'm not 100% certain Ringo or George ever tracked "20/20" or "Surfin' Safari." The Beatles were just on a unique level, and I'd guess that everybody in the Beach Boys barring *possibly* Mike Love would admit as such.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2017, 11:58:49 AM »


Knowing what I know about Paul McCartney and The Beatles I can honestly say, that as much as McCartney loved Pet Sounds and Brian Wilson’s work, he really only had a passing interest in it. The same as Lennon had with Dylan. It was a case of “Wow, this is my peer. One of my ONLY peers. They get it, too.” But Paul McCartney had so much magic pouring out of him in 1966/1967, that he didn’t need to crib ideas -- and as we all know, he’s gone on record stating he wasn’t so hot on “Good Vibrations.”

The only artist Paul McCartney was ever chomping at the bit to hear their new works was John Lennon.
And that’s that.


And with great respect to Mr. Edelson, but The Beatles were cribbing ideas constantly - from contemporaries and from rock and roll heroes. That didn't make their work any less magical though.
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HeyJude
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« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2017, 12:03:10 PM »


Knowing what I know about Paul McCartney and The Beatles I can honestly say, that as much as McCartney loved Pet Sounds and Brian Wilson’s work, he really only had a passing interest in it. The same as Lennon had with Dylan. It was a case of “Wow, this is my peer. One of my ONLY peers. They get it, too.” But Paul McCartney had so much magic pouring out of him in 1966/1967, that he didn’t need to crib ideas -- and as we all know, he’s gone on record stating he wasn’t so hot on “Good Vibrations.”

The only artist Paul McCartney was ever chomping at the bit to hear their new works was John Lennon.
And that’s that.


And with great respect to Mr. Edelson, but The Beatles were cribbing ideas constantly - from contemporaries and from rock and roll heroes. That didn't make their work any less magical though.

The term "cribbing" may or may not imply certain things to certain people, but of course, the Beatles used many influences. I don't tend to think the Beach Boys or Brian were at the top of such a list, especially outside of McCartney. I'm sure both bands referenced Chuck Berry more than they referenced each other.

Howie's point in that old post was in specific reference to the idea that Derek Taylor slipped them "Smile" tapes and that they cribbed unreleased "Smile" ideas to make "Sgt. Pepper." And that's an asinine idea for about ten different reasons, including the fact that McCartney was as, if not more prolific in this time frame than Brian was, to say nothing of the scant amount of "Smile" ideas that seem to permeate "Sgt. Pepper", not to mention that research shows it was logistically likely impossible for Taylor to get the tapes to the Beatles.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2017, 12:04:24 PM »

Were the Beatles *massive* fans of the Beach Boys "all along?" I guess it depends on how one defines "massive." I've said many times that McCartney was only member who regularly even brought Brian and the BBs up (I've tallied so far one instance I can find where Harrison and Lennon even say the band's name;

Does that include Harrison include two Beach Boys singles in his jukebox in 1966? I don't think that makes him a massive fan, but given that they accounted for 1/20th of his choices suggests he was certainly a fan.

I agree with your point about the defensive inferiority complex.

It's tough, especially with George gone. Dhani Harrison recently inducted ELO in the R&R Hall of Fame and mentioned that his Dad was a huge ELO fan. But, back before George met Jeff Lynne, was George really a *huge* ELO fan? Even in the Jeff Lynne/ELO "Mr. Blue Sky" documentary, George's wife Olivia says George had "Telephone Line" in his jukebox and kind if seems to imply that was the extent of his ELO fandom for the most part. Does having a single or two of a band in his jukebox make him a major, massive fan?

Whether right or wrong, I'd wager every member of the Beach Boys listened to every single one of the Beatles albums released between 1962 (or 64 for the US) and 1970. Every Beatles album. Whereas, I'm not 100% certain Ringo or George ever tracked "20/20" or "Surfin' Safari." The Beatles were just on a unique level, and I'd guess that everybody in the Beach Boys barring *possibly* Mike Love would admit as such.

Yeah, again, I think that Harrison would place a lot of artists ahead of The Beach Boys. But, also, The Beatles were all (maybe not as much Ringo) voracious music listeners and even though their allegiance was to, say, the 1956-1962 era, they still listened to a tremendous amount of contemporary music throughout the whole 60s and beyond. Probably George the most. So, I wouldn't be too surprised if he heard an album like 20/20.
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Ziggy Stardust
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« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2017, 12:06:19 PM »

Come on man, add up every references the Beatles did to the Beach Boys over their entire career

I'd be curious to know what other fans, especially BB fans, feel are direct references in Beatles material to the Beach Boys. There are certainly some broad areas (McCartney's bass lines), some instrumentation on things like Pepper, "Here There and Everywhere", and a few items that amount almost to pastiche ("Back in the USSR", a little bit on McCartney's "Vintage Clothes").

Howie Edelson likes to point out some nods to "Sunflower" in "Ram" if we want to go more into the solo years. I hear the references, though I'm also curious if McCartney has ever actually gone on record talking about "Sunflower" in any interviews.

But I've never felt the Beatles catalog or their solo years were just jam-packed with Beach Boys/Brian references, especially compared to all of their other contemporary or recent-past influences at any given time.

Well by references i meant like, in overall like the connections, not just that the Beach Boys had over the Beatles which many people has already enough stated, but more so on how the Beatles over the Beach Boys, for like example that Lennon quote i brought  up praising Brian and his work, oddly enough another proof of the admiration that i have NEVER seen anyone mentioned, so that speaks volume yeah.
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HeyJude
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« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2017, 12:09:40 PM »

Were the Beatles *massive* fans of the Beach Boys "all along?" I guess it depends on how one defines "massive." I've said many times that McCartney was only member who regularly even brought Brian and the BBs up (I've tallied so far one instance I can find where Harrison and Lennon even say the band's name;

Does that include Harrison include two Beach Boys singles in his jukebox in 1966? I don't think that makes him a massive fan, but given that they accounted for 1/20th of his choices suggests he was certainly a fan.

I agree with your point about the defensive inferiority complex.

It's tough, especially with George gone. Dhani Harrison recently inducted ELO in the R&R Hall of Fame and mentioned that his Dad was a huge ELO fan. But, back before George met Jeff Lynne, was George really a *huge* ELO fan? Even in the Jeff Lynne/ELO "Mr. Blue Sky" documentary, George's wife Olivia says George had "Telephone Line" in his jukebox and kind if seems to imply that was the extent of his ELO fandom for the most part. Does having a single or two of a band in his jukebox make him a major, massive fan?

Whether right or wrong, I'd wager every member of the Beach Boys listened to every single one of the Beatles albums released between 1962 (or 64 for the US) and 1970. Every Beatles album. Whereas, I'm not 100% certain Ringo or George ever tracked "20/20" or "Surfin' Safari." The Beatles were just on a unique level, and I'd guess that everybody in the Beach Boys barring *possibly* Mike Love would admit as such.

Yeah, again, I think that Harrison would place a lot of artists ahead of The Beach Boys. But, also, The Beatles were all (maybe not as much Ringo) voracious music listeners and even though their allegiance was to, say, the 1956-1962 era, they still listened to a tremendous amount of contemporary music throughout the whole 60s and beyond. Probably George the most. So, I wouldn't be too surprised if he heard an album like 20/20.

Yeah, I can't speak to any specific album. It's totally possible. But the main headline is that neither George Harrison nor John Lennon (nor really even McCartney) were voraciously eating up BB/Brian material the way Brian and most everybody was consuming Beatles material. It just wasn't a reciprocal relationship in that way. Which is fine.

Harrison couldn't even name which albums which Beatles songs were on in subsequent years.  LOL
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2017, 12:12:41 PM »

Were the Beatles *massive* fans of the Beach Boys "all along?" I guess it depends on how one defines "massive." I've said many times that McCartney was only member who regularly even brought Brian and the BBs up (I've tallied so far one instance I can find where Harrison and Lennon even say the band's name;

Does that include Harrison include two Beach Boys singles in his jukebox in 1966? I don't think that makes him a massive fan, but given that they accounted for 1/20th of his choices suggests he was certainly a fan.

I agree with your point about the defensive inferiority complex.

It's tough, especially with George gone. Dhani Harrison recently inducted ELO in the R&R Hall of Fame and mentioned that his Dad was a huge ELO fan. But, back before George met Jeff Lynne, was George really a *huge* ELO fan? Even in the Jeff Lynne/ELO "Mr. Blue Sky" documentary, George's wife Olivia says George had "Telephone Line" in his jukebox and kind if seems to imply that was the extent of his ELO fandom for the most part. Does having a single or two of a band in his jukebox make him a major, massive fan?

Whether right or wrong, I'd wager every member of the Beach Boys listened to every single one of the Beatles albums released between 1962 (or 64 for the US) and 1970. Every Beatles album. Whereas, I'm not 100% certain Ringo or George ever tracked "20/20" or "Surfin' Safari." The Beatles were just on a unique level, and I'd guess that everybody in the Beach Boys barring *possibly* Mike Love would admit as such.

Yeah, again, I think that Harrison would place a lot of artists ahead of The Beach Boys. But, also, The Beatles were all (maybe not as much Ringo) voracious music listeners and even though their allegiance was to, say, the 1956-1962 era, they still listened to a tremendous amount of contemporary music throughout the whole 60s and beyond. Probably George the most. So, I wouldn't be too surprised if he heard an album like 20/20.

Yeah, I can't speak to any specific album. It's totally possible. But the main headline is that neither George Harrison nor John Lennon (nor really even McCartney) were voraciously eating up BB/Brian material the way Brian and most everybody was consuming Beatles material. It just wasn't a reciprocal relationship in that way. Which is fine.

Harrison couldn't even name which albums which Beatles songs were on in subsequent years.  LOL

Yes, I agree with all that.

To be perfectly honest, I've seen that Lennon quote before about "Little Girl" and I doubt it being a real one. It seems that everyone and his mother has a story about Lennon praising their song or favourite artist in the 1960s.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2017, 12:14:53 PM »

One other point though to add to this is that by 1968, McCartney was still naming The Beach Boys among his 3 favourite bands, something he was doing as far back as 1966. So I do think they loomed large for him for a couple of years at least.
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Ziggy Stardust
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« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2017, 12:18:08 PM »

Quote is from the book "The Beatles as Musicians: The Quarry Men through Rubber Soul" by Walter Everett, page 276, apparently it originally comes from "Beatles Monthly Magazine/1965 Christmas Extra", surely there's some hardcore fans who has that original copy that can confirm, sounds like an ellaborated hoax from source to source if it is if you ask me tho, it's not like this is the only time Lennon or the Beatles mentioned Beach Boys in any form, so yeah.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2017, 12:23:48 PM »

Quote is from the book "The Beatles as Musicians: The Quarry Men through Rubber Soul" by Walter Everett, page 276, apparently it originally comes from "Beatles Monthly Magazine/1965 Christmas Extra", surely there's some hardcore fans who has that original copy that can confirm, sounds like an ellaborated hoax from source to source if it is if you ask me tho, it's like this is the only time Lennon or the Beatles mentioned Beach Boys in any form, so yeah.

Probably accurate then. Thanks for that.
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Ziggy Stardust
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« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2017, 12:36:46 PM »

No worries! and i know this is the internet but by no means i intend to sound any aggressive.

I'm glad the Lennon quote opened this conversation cause there seems to be more i havn't heard of before, as the Do It Again story.

Which apparently that song is more popular than i thought, since i read it was mostly a UK hit, but at the Seattle show Sunday a lady from the past generation said how much she loved that song back in the day, i was very happy for her knowing they were gonna play it Smiley
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2017, 12:41:06 PM »

No worries! and i know this is the internet but by no means i intend to sound any aggressive.

Oh, you didn't at all. I didn't intend to either.

I also find this conversation fascinating. One of my interests over the last five years or so has been to try and figure out the sort of music that The Beatles were listening to and how it may have influenced their own work. Mark Lewisohn's book is certainly helpful in this regard but, for now, that only goes up to 1962.
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Ziggy Stardust
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« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2017, 01:11:46 PM »

No worries! and i know this is the internet but by no means i intend to sound any aggressive.

Oh, you didn't at all. I didn't intend to either.

I also find this conversation fascinating. One of my interests over the last five years or so has been to try and figure out the sort of music that The Beatles were listening to and how it may have influenced their own work. Mark Lewisohn's book is certainly helpful in this regard but, for now, that only goes up to 1962.

I don't know, i mean i know The Beach Boys were like top 3 biggest mouvement ever, but to me, it's still surprising that the guys would jam on You're So Good To Me in the late 60's, you know? wasn't music fast consuming back then? well it probably is worst today but i mean so many big names coming up and evolving styles, especially through the 60's going from pop act to psychedelic era, and with that the Beach Boys kinda in a rough time commercially?

Like, the fact they still played on that song is kind of a testament to me in how they actually legit appreciated it and still inspired by it, which contradicts the talk on how the inspiration of Pet Sounds was just a phase.

Let alone with all the rest and mention of the Beach Boys they kept bringing up, inspiration or collaboration years later..
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2017, 01:37:21 PM »

I suppose my foot is in both camps. I do think that some tend to overestimate the role that the Beach Boys played for The Beatles. That said, the pendulum can swing too far the other way. What's unquestionable is that at the very least John, Paul, and George were fans. Thanks to your source, we see John praising "Little Girl" in late 65. By early 66, that song along with Let Him Run Wild are part of George Harrison's jukebox. By the Revolver press conference, Paul was naming the band as one of his personal favourites. Flash forward two years later, and he names them among his top 3 favourite contemporary acts along with Nilsson and The Lovin' Spoonful. So, yes, The Beach Boys were among the Beatles favourite contemporary bands.

With that in mind, though, I would say that their real go-to music throughout this period would have still been the classic rock and roll sound and R&B. They liked a few contemporary white bands, but their bread and butter was largely classic rock and roll and R&B.
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Magic Transistor Radio
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« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2017, 12:35:57 PM »


As a Seinfeld fanatic I couldn't resist!   Grin
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2017, 06:32:02 PM »

I hear a major Beach Boys influence on the "Ram" album,, maybe Sunflower...it has the synths and the harmonies that are similar to what they were doing at the time, McCartney II could be his "Love You"..
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