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Author Topic: Mike's Hand in Vocal Arrangements  (Read 26194 times)
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« on: February 20, 2017, 12:27:55 PM »

Back in the fall of '82, Carl told Geoffrey Himes (when speaking of the groups' individual vocal contributions): "It's not widely known, but Michael had a hand in a lot of the arrangements. He would bring out the funkier approaches: he'd decide what rhythms and syllables to use in the background, whether to go shoo-boo-bop or bom-bom-did-di-did-did. It makes a big difference, because it can change the whole rhythm, the whole color and tone of it."

So, the question is, which songs might these be? The first to come to mind is, of course, the VERY first one: "Surfin'", which has a bass vocal line almost identical to the second one Carl describes here (and the TM-like chant in "This Whole World" seems to be a derivative of that). Any others like that? And what about the first one Carl describes here: can anyone think of any BBs song that might incorporate a background line such as that? I'm sure there are others that Carl had in mind, he just happened to mention these two types of r'n'b-styled backgrounds as examples...
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 01:08:42 PM »

Back in the fall of '82, Carl told Geoffrey Himes (when speaking of the groups' individual vocal contributions): "It's not widely known, but Michael had a hand in a lot of the arrangements. He would bring out the funkier approaches: he'd decide what rhythms and syllables to use in the background, whether to go shoo-boo-bop or bom-bom-did-di-did-did. It makes a big difference, because it can change the whole rhythm, the whole color and tone of it."

So, the question is, which songs might these be? The first to come to mind is, of course, the VERY first one: "Surfin'", which has a bass vocal line almost identical to the second one Carl describes here (and the TM-like chant in "This Whole World" seems to be a derivative of that). Any others like that? And what about the first one Carl describes here: can anyone think of any BBs song that might incorporate a background line such as that? I'm sure there are others that Carl had in mind, he just happened to mention these two types of r'n'b-styled backgrounds as examples...

Perhaps his backing vocals on I Can Hear Music, particularly during the bridge breakdown part...
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 01:59:43 PM »

The bow bow bow in Help Me Rhonda and possibly ba ba ba and did its in Do It Again.  Not that Carl was referring to those, but they sound like something he would have come up with, especially on Help Me, Rhonda.
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 02:36:44 PM »

The bow bow bow in Help Me Rhonda and possibly ba ba ba and did its in Do It Again.  Not that Carl was referring to those, but they sound like something he would have come up with, especially on Help Me, Rhonda.

It's so damn difficult to think that myKe could come up with something as complex as bow x 3 as well as did its! What about TLGIOK, too. Man, how profound is that? He makes Brian look like an amateur!  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2017, 02:41:36 PM »

The bow bow bow in Help Me Rhonda and possibly ba ba ba and did its in Do It Again.  Not that Carl was referring to those, but they sound like something he would have come up with, especially on Help Me, Rhonda.

It's so damn difficult to think that myKe could come up with something as complex as bow x 3 as well as did its! What about TLGIOK, too. Man, how profound is that? He makes Brian look like an amateur!  Roll Eyes

Yeah, he sure does!  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2017, 04:22:54 PM »

The bow bow bow in Help Me Rhonda and possibly ba ba ba and did its in Do It Again.  Not that Carl was referring to those, but they sound like something he would have come up with, especially on Help Me, Rhonda.

It's so damn difficult to think that myKe could come up with something as complex as bow x 3 as well as did its! What about TLGIOK, too. Man, how profound is that? He makes Brian look like an amateur!  Roll Eyes

Yeah, he sure does!  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2017, 07:09:55 PM »

I wonder if Mike is looking for an arranger credit.

Those were Carl's words reported, sure, but suggesting or doing a doo-wop based "bom, bom, dippity dippity" bassline vocal if you're the bass singer in a vocal group is not worthy of being credited as an arranger.
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2017, 08:26:20 PM »

I wonder if Mike is looking for an arranger credit.

Those were Carl's words reported, sure, but suggesting or doing a doo-wop based "bom, bom, dippity dippity" bassline vocal if you're the bass singer in a vocal group is not worthy of being credited as an arranger.

I can guarantee you Mike is not looking for an arranging credit. Carl told Himes "Mike had a hand in the arrangements", and I simply brought it up out of my own curiosity.
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2017, 08:40:10 PM »

Given what I know...and following through in order to also accurately consider his more modern contributions [say those made to Slumber in Pair of Dice for example]... ... ...I think we can safely assume that 'he' would have been behind the concept of the group going with the memorable. daunting, and ever-so-challenging "Duh duh duh...duh duh...duh duh duh...duh duh.../Duh duh duh...duh duh...duh duh duh...duh duh"  intro to Louee-Louee. Shocked

"Duhhhhhh."   Those are the kind of special lyrics and moments which immediately enable me to conjure up the image I have grown accustomed to in terms of equating  that 'love' character with all of the great stuff he's has done to...er - sorry...'for' the brand...I mean band. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 08:46:04 PM »

Given what I know...and following through in order to also accurately consider his more modern contributions [say those made to Slumber in Pair of Dice for example]... ... ...I think we can safely assume that 'he' would have been behind the concept of the group going with the memorable. daunting, and ever-so-challenging "Duh duh duh...duh duh...duh duh duh...duh duh.../Duh duh duh...duh duh...duh duh duh...duh duh"  intro to Louee-Louee. Shocked

"Duhhhhhh."   Those are the kind of special lyrics and moments which immediately enable me to conjure up the image I have grown accustomed to in terms of equating  that 'love' character with all of the great stuff he's has done to...er - sorry...'for' the brand...I mean band. Roll Eyes
  You're killing me smalls!
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2017, 09:10:20 PM »

Given what I know...and following through in order to also accurately consider his more modern contributions [say those made to Slumber in Pair of Dice for example]... ... ...I think we can safely assume that 'he' would have been behind the concept of the group going with the memorable. daunting, and ever-so-challenging "Duh duh duh...duh duh...duh duh duh...duh duh.../Duh duh duh...duh duh...duh duh duh...duh duh"  intro to Louee-Louee. Shocked

"Duhhhhhh."   Those are the kind of special lyrics and moments which immediately enable me to conjure up the image I have grown accustomed to in terms of equating  that 'love' character with all of the great stuff he's has done to...er - sorry...'for' the brand...I mean band. Roll Eyes

Very moving, and probably the single most underrated moment in their whole catalog.

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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2017, 05:52:36 AM »

Looking at most (but not all) of the above posts, it's no wonder the OP has taken his question elsewhere.
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2017, 06:06:14 AM »

I wonder if Mike is looking for an arranger credit.

Those were Carl's words reported, sure, but suggesting or doing a doo-wop based "bom, bom, dippity dippity" bassline vocal if you're the bass singer in a vocal group is not worthy of being credited as an arranger.
Mike is plugging away at trying to find a way to make more money off the BBs legacy and diminish BW's work in 1960s. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2017, 06:56:29 AM »

I think you could argue that, in cases where Mike wasn't directed by Brian or others on how to sing his bass part and/or what "sounds" to use as background syllables, etc., and worked it out on his own, he "arranged" the song in the same way that, say, George Harrison "wrote" parts of Lennon/McCartney songs where he wrote the lead guitar part from scratch. That is, a wholly original part, but one that is dictated by a pre-existing arrangement/melody/chord structure and a situation where that addition (whether one agrees or not) was and is not typically awarded a credit.

So in this sense, in a world where a lead guitar part wouldn't receive a writer's credit, Mike forming his bass part with no outside help wouldn't warrant a "vocal arranger" credit on an album jacket.

I think Carl in that interview is using "arranger" in a looser fashion, and pointing out that Mike did form his own vocal parts in some cases is certainly an important thing to point out, as are cases where he picked which vocal sounds to use as backing. But this certainly isn't the same as writing out or verbally dishing out actual fully-formed multi-part harmony pieces.

As for cases where Mike did this sort of thing, coming up with the "do-do-do" versus "woooo-buh-do" and all of that stuff, I would tend to think post-1967 stuff where Brian wasn't cracking the whip as much or having as much direct control over sessions might be more likely cases where Mike more freely added that stuff.
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2017, 07:05:38 AM »

I wonder if Mike is looking for an arranger credit.

Those were Carl's words reported, sure, but suggesting or doing a doo-wop based "bom, bom, dippity dippity" bassline vocal if you're the bass singer in a vocal group is not worthy of being credited as an arranger.

Not an unfair observation in the least given the recent history of vocal credits (and who was all tied up in that). Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why all of that was done in the first place...thus it's not surprising that people were cynical/sarcastic about this specific topic.

Regardless, glad it found its way to the Pet Sounds Forum, far from that "other" board lol
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2017, 07:06:43 AM »

Wasn't it the liners for one of the copyright releases?
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2017, 07:48:17 AM »

No surprise Mike came up with many of the bass vocal lines on the songs, rather than those being dictated by Brian - Good Vibrations comes to mind (although it just echoes the bass line), the part in the Water chant was Mike's (now now now ...) and I'm sure numerous others.  It would be interesting to try and list all the songs with vocal bass lines that "make" the song or at least are an inseparable part of their structure.
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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2017, 07:53:43 AM »

No surprise Mike came up with many of the bass vocal lines on the songs, rather than those being dictated by Brian

Could you elaborate on this?
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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2017, 04:13:11 PM »

.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 12:33:09 AM by Mixdown Producer » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2017, 04:21:02 PM »

The bow bow bow in Help Me Rhonda and possibly ba ba ba and did its in Do It Again.  Not that Carl was referring to those, but they sound like something he would have come up with, especially on Help Me, Rhonda.

It's so damn difficult to think that myKe could come up with something as complex as bow x 3 as well as did its! What about TLGIOK, too. Man, how profound is that? He makes Brian look like an amateur!  Roll Eyes

Yeah, he sure does!  Roll Eyes

"Ask myKe luHv". He'll be happy to tell you how talented he is. 











Nice job formatting that quote there, gramps. Maybe next time ask one of your great-grandkids to help you with the computer.

I can help him out with it
[/quote]
[/quote]
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 04:22:28 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2017, 04:51:33 PM »

The bow bow bow in Help Me Rhonda and possibly ba ba ba and did its in Do It Again.  Not that Carl was referring to those, but they sound like something he would have come up with, especially on Help Me, Rhonda.

It's so damn difficult to think that myKe could come up with something as complex as bow x 3 as well as did its! What about TLGIOK, too. Man, how profound is that? He makes Brian look like an amateur!  Roll Eyes

Yeah, he sure does!  Roll Eyes

"Ask myKe luHv". He'll be happy to tell you how talented he is. 











Nice job formatting that quote there, gramps. Maybe next time ask one of your great-grandkids to help you with the computer.

I can help him out with it
[/quote]

[/quote] w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t!
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« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2017, 05:15:41 PM »

The bow bow bow in Help Me Rhonda and possibly ba ba ba and did its in Do It Again.  Not that Carl was referring to those, but they sound like something he would have come up with, especially on Help Me, Rhonda.

It's so damn difficult to think that myKe could come up with something as complex as bow x 3 as well as did its! What about TLGIOK, too. Man, how profound is that? He makes Brian look like an amateur!  Roll Eyes

Yeah, he sure does!  Roll Eyes

"Ask myKe luHv". He'll be happy to tell you how talented he is. 











Nice job formatting that quote there, gramps. Maybe next time ask one of your great-grandkids to help you with the computer.

Is that really necessary?
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2017, 12:29:40 AM »

I don't care how much of a dick he can be to Brian or anybody else. the man is a hell of a lot more worthy of respect and credit as a member of a vocal group than he's been given in the past, or right now in this thread. Listen to the vocal only mixes of Breakaway or Cottonfields, and see if you can come up with something half as good.
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2017, 01:45:52 AM »

The bow bow bow in Help Me Rhonda and possibly ba ba ba and did its in Do It Again.  Not that Carl was referring to those, but they sound like something he would have come up with, especially on Help Me, Rhonda.

It's so damn difficult to think that myKe could come up with something as complex as bow x 3 as well as did its! What about TLGIOK, too. Man, how profound is that? He makes Brian look like an amateur!  Roll Eyes

Yeah, he sure does!  Roll Eyes

"Ask myKe luHv". He'll be happy to tell you how talented he is. 











Nice job formatting that quote there, gramps. Maybe next time ask one of your great-grandkids to help you with the computer.

Is that really necessary?

You could ask that about the majority of OSD's posts too. 
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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2017, 05:35:56 AM »

I don't care how much of a dick he can be to Brian or anybody else. the man is a hell of a lot more worthy of respect and credit as a member of a vocal group than he's been given in the past, or right now in this thread. Listen to the vocal only mixes of Breakaway or Cottonfields, and see if you can come up with something half as good.

He probably gets just as much credit as he deserves. People know he contributed a lot to the band's 60s music and by the way, I'm sure rock critics would be very kind to Mike Love if he was a little more humble about those contributions. He was the lead singer, frontman and sometimes lyricist during the band's prime and he did some great bass vocals too. Not a genius but indeed a hard working guy. Smiley
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