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Author Topic: Paley Sessions Discussion Thread  (Read 11929 times)
ForHerCryingSoul
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« on: February 14, 2017, 03:57:07 PM »

Hey guys.

I have been listening to a lot of the Paley sessions pieces and I can't help but wonder what anyone else thinks of these?  I think they are a lot better than at least Imagination, and certainly better than the insipid Country Album they made in that same year.  What are your thoughts on the matter?  I really hope the material surfaces, but we might not see it for a long time due to an unwillingness to share the music. 

My stream of consciousness aside, what are your thoughts?
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2017, 04:11:57 PM »

I think there is some really worthwhile stuff there, and of course some of it has since come out (for better and worse, depending on the specifics). For a while it seemed to me that this stuff--like all things Brian Wilson--was being given more credit than it was due just because it was what we didn't have (officially), but I think that has mellowed out somewhat in recent years. It would be fun to hear really high quality and well mixed releases of it, but I don't think anyone's worlds would be shattered.

Personally, I've always had a soft spot for a pair of almost paint-by-numbers tunes among them: "My Marianne" and "Some Sweet Day." I just love 'em, maybe mostly because it sounded like Brian loved 'em, too. Nothing innovative to be found, just cool, fun songs. If he ever does get around to that so-called rock-and-roll album, these are the kinds of songs that should populate it. In fact, they should both make the album.
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2017, 04:31:38 PM »

Hearing these songs at the proper speed and mastering is key!
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2017, 06:16:28 PM »

Curious to know if anyone else hears the out of sync Carl vocal on Soul Searchin'.

I can't tell if I'm hearing it because it's *actually* out of sync (due to being pasted from a different version), or if it's because I read that it was possibly (do we know for sure?) pasted before hearing it, and that this may have colored my perception of it. In other words, I wonder if I'd feel the same way if I'd never read about the song's history. After all, there are other BB songs that have out of sync vocals (not due to digital pasting, but just due to likely quickly recording and not going back to fix stuff, like Drive In and California Girls). But I always think of a digital paste job when I listen to the Paley Soul Searchin'!

I seem to recall that the line "so now I'm walking..." was a particular out of sync culprit on Soul Searchin'.  

I wonder how the pasting was done? From tape to tape, or on an early non-linear digital editing system? I'm guessing both versions had to have been done to a click track for it it line up as good as it does (however imperfect it is).

Side note: I know some people have complained that the sync is off on the Brian vocal on the Surf's Up version from The SMiLE sessions (which it is in fact chopped up and pasted from another version, but in my opinion done very well and natural-sounding sync-wise).
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 06:22:16 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2017, 08:54:55 PM »

By far BW's best solo work, and better than any BB record since Love You ... I'd love to see them released someday.

Honestly, if finished in a hip way in 1995-96 as a BB record, I think it would have started a new chapter in the group's career.
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2017, 09:02:57 PM »

By far BW's best solo work, and better than any BB record since Love You ... I'd love to see them released someday.

Honestly, if finished in a hip way in 1995-96 as a BB record, I think it would have started a new chapter in the group's career.

Bingo. Instead we got Baywatch.
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2017, 09:03:54 PM »

And Nashville.
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2017, 09:26:15 PM »

And Nashville.
I'm in the minority who thinks Stars and Stripes could have worked, BUT it was executed so poorly with the really cheesy production and gimmick of bringing in "country stars".  Ugh.  Also Carl didn't like the sessions, so I honestly blame him for the "contemporary" direction he wanted to go into instead.  I'm not going to be the one opening the can of worms with Melinda, but Carl definitely is at some sort of fault for the downfall of the project.  Brian says so himself.
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2017, 09:38:43 PM »

Carl was shooting down pretty much everything Brian tried during that time. Peter Carlin's book briefly touches on it. Brian kind of hints about it in his own book, but it's inferred.
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ForHerCryingSoul
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2017, 09:51:36 PM »

Carl was shooting down pretty much everything Brian tried during that time. Peter Carlin's book briefly touches on it. Brian kind of hints about it in his own book, but it's inferred.
I only read Brian's book, but that is very disappointing to hear.  There is a quote, I don't know how reliable this is, because it's from a Wikipedia page, but there is a lot of juicy tidbits there, such as:

Quote from: Brian Wilson - 1995 Interview: “The Beach Boys are trying to destroy me!”
"I’ll work on my own, solo, before I work with a bunch of guys that don’t give a sh*t about me. ... there’s probably five or six real good reasons why they don’t like me. One is they’re jealous. Two: erm, they’re assholes. Three: they’re too businessmen and too businesslike. And four: there’s no respect. They have no respect for me. They just spit at me and kick me, no respect at all. I say, ‘Well, f*** it then!’ ... Carl is my brother, but Carl is an asshole. I love Carl, I love his singing, but he’s an asshole to me. Those guys are assholes. I oughta beat the hell out of them all. I dunno, I’d probably get beat up if I tried that."

Interesting article too: http://www.uncut.co.uk/blog/beach-boys-trying-destroy-77465
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2017, 09:52:21 PM »

Yup...I remember that well.
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2017, 11:34:33 PM »

This might seem like an odd request, but could anybody help me compile a list of *all* of the Paley tracks? I'd love to be able to get as much of the Paley tracks as possible, and making sort of a "database" could help.
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2017, 02:09:21 AM »

This might seem like an odd request, but could anybody help me compile a list of *all* of the Paley tracks? I'd love to be able to get as much of the Paley tracks as possible, and making sort of a "database" could help.

I don't know if you have Back to the Beach but there's a fairly extensive rundown on pp. 229-233, after Domenic Priore's interview with Paley.
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2017, 06:19:35 AM »

By far BW's best solo work, and better than any BB record since Love You ... I'd love to see them released someday.

Honestly, if finished in a hip way in 1995-96 as a BB record, I think it would have started a new chapter in the group's career.

I don't know. I like the material but think that might be reaching--or maybe isn't, but isn't saying much.

- BW's best solo material. Personally I disagree with that: I'd rate it below BWPS, TLOS for sure, and if we're including covers behind Gershwin. Honestly, probably behind NPP, too, though it's all just one man's opinion. I do think it's his most conventional, and at least in the versions we have, maybe the best at neither catering to current fads nor fetishizing BW tropes of old.

- better than any BB album since Love You. Damning with faint praise!

- new chapter for BBs. That may be true, but as what? I'd say as a solid, but solidly, nostalgia act. Don't get me wrong, it would've been a more dignified identity than they had at the time. But maybe it would be more "hey Baby Boomers, this old band still makes albums for you--and don't forget to see them & buy a t-short and greatest hits comp this summer" rather than "hey world, this band makes great records."

Again, I like some of those songs and don't mean to sh*t on them or your opinion. Just my more cynical two cents.
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2017, 07:28:43 AM »

By far BW's best solo work, and better than any BB record since Love You ... I'd love to see them released someday.

Honestly, if finished in a hip way in 1995-96 as a BB record, I think it would have started a new chapter in the group's career.

I don't know. I like the material but think that might be reaching--or maybe isn't, but isn't saying much.

- BW's best solo material. Personally I disagree with that: I'd rate it below BWPS, TLOS for sure, and if we're including covers behind Gershwin. Honestly, probably behind NPP, too, though it's all just one man's opinion. I do think it's his most conventional, and at least in the versions we have, maybe the best at neither catering to current fads nor fetishizing BW tropes of old.

- better than any BB album since Love You. Damning with faint praise!

- new chapter for BBs. That may be true, but as what? I'd say as a solid, but solidly, nostalgia act. Don't get me wrong, it would've been a more dignified identity than they had at the time. But maybe it would be more "hey Baby Boomers, this old band still makes albums for you--and don't forget to see them & buy a t-short and greatest hits comp this summer" rather than "hey world, this band makes great records."

Again, I like some of those songs and don't mean to sh*t on them or your opinion. Just my more cynical two cents.

I can say I'm biased by the fact that the years 1994-95-96 coincided with what was one of the peaks of my obsession as a fan, and I know I'm repeating myself but there was a palpable buzz around Brian's return post-Landy and the music which was still being discovered and rediscovered by listeners and fans that it seemed the band "The Beach Boys" didn't seem to capitalize on. or maybe they just didn't want to, or didn't know how to. When the music press and the alternative music scene and similar outlets like the mags and the 'zines were featuring cover stories on Brian and musicians were dropping hints in interviews about the music, there was something going on beyond what the band was itself was doing.

I'll give two examples, judge accordingly and on your own personal opinions. July 4, 1995 in Philly and Baywatch. The Philly concert was available on trade circuits and later on YouTube because it was broadcast in stereo on the Philly station "Channel 6" as we locals call it. So you had access to see what the band was doing, on video, in full even if you weren't in Philly to see it. Baywatch - speaks for itself. It's available too, on video.

Consider that there were a lot of fans like me who were beyond excited reading the blurbs in the magazines about the Don Was film, about Pet Sounds AND Smile session box sets in the pipeline (yes, both were reported in 94-95), there were Brian and Van Dyke on the cover of the Tower Records magazine with full articles on both OCA and Smile...walk into a bookstore or record shop and see Mojo, etc, with stories on this music, stacks of copies of LLVS and the other related books available for sale. Etc Etc Etc.

Maybe it's the fact that there was so much anticipation and perhaps so much potential from a fan's perspective, and as happened (and happens) so many times with the band, the actual band when they did appear didn't seem to be doing anything to acknowledge this buzz surrounding them.

The same band playing Nashville's "Fan Fest" getting a story on CNN and putting out a country album of their own covers was the band whose box set of Pet Sounds Sessions was about to come out? What? The music heard on the Don Was film sung by Brian and praised by musicians new, underground, and legendary was augmented by the tropical/beach sets and fake palm trees and dance troupes on stage plus John Stamos doing more than some of the actual band members on stage? What? Brian returns from the void of Landy, rejoins the band on Baywatch, and he literally does nothing? What?

Then the stories come out more and more about Brian's return, and related unfortunate scenes as his quote suggested surrounded it, and it's again...What?

Maybe it's not as much the few versions of those songs specifically, but the potential that was there for them to be something unique for the band versus some of the decisions actually made. Then I guess the debate turns to art versus commerce. As long as the touring act was making money with the dancers and all that, who needs to do something unique musically. When all else fails, find a way to remake or rerecord the songs which were played on stage July 4, 1995 in Philly.

Just compare the activities of the past 22 years or so of the key players and build the credits list for all. It is amazing in that context to see how an album like That's Why God Made The Radio lasted beyond the planning stages.

Then it becomes a success...top 5 on the album charts for a legacy band is a success no matter how some might parse it...and the supporting tour becomes a success...and the band is back with industry status and demand for them to do more...and Mike critiques the album for falling short and later claims the tour was losing too much money, especially since he likes to run things "lean and mean".

So, there it is. This band had the momentum and the buzz to do something or at least try it beyond the normal touring grind, and they chose remakes of hits with country artists and Baywatch.

Expectations were high so many times, then they sank like a stone, so it's hard to expect anything beyond where it is in terms of releasing music in 2017. Remakes of Getcha Back...What?

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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2017, 08:12:35 AM »

I don't really dispute that, for the most part. I more question the optimism of the (necessarily speculative) "what if?" I don't hear in that music much, if anything, beyond mostly nostalgic but most certainly not groundbreaking or even stellar, music. That's why I think it was more a chance to not s(t)ink further than to really have some glorious re-rise.

The buzz around Brian continued regardless: that era (say 95-00?) was maybe the peak of that wave of championing him by indies. So that happened regardless, just more specifically limited to Brian as an outsider to his own band than to him within it (and thus sharing the Love).*


*Couldnt help it!
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2017, 08:18:40 AM »

Unleash the love (of the Captain) LOL
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2017, 08:27:08 AM »

I don't really dispute that, for the most part. I more question the optimism of the (necessarily speculative) "what if?" I don't hear in that music much, if anything, beyond mostly nostalgic but most certainly not groundbreaking or even stellar, music. That's why I think it was more a chance to not s(t)ink further than to really have some glorious re-rise.

The buzz around Brian continued regardless: that era (say 95-00?) was maybe the peak of that wave of championing him by indies. So that happened regardless, just more specifically limited to Brian as an outsider to his own band than to him within it (and thus sharing the Love).*


*Couldnt help it!

I can see looking back that the separation started to happen in terms of public perception and perhaps culminated in the 90's when Brian started touring as himself. This may be controversial to say in some circles, but there were numbers of fans who were buying tickets to see Brian on that first tour and hearing a more faithful presentation of the classic records (mixed in with some deep cuts and solo tracks) than what they had been seeing with The Beach Boys. There were some funny moments too, early on, when someone must have thought it would have been fun to unleash some beach balls during Brian's show.

How can I say this diplomatically...well, maybe I can't, but imagine being in Symphony Hall on that first BW tour with fans giving standing ovations, crying, showing all kinds of emotions hearing the music being played that well and actually seeing Brian on stage performing live which was thought impossible for years, and then the beach balls start flying around. That was...surreal.  

Aside from that, there is a level of credibility and cache that comes with having Brian Wilson actively doing things with the Beach Boys, and maybe the stronger that got after his return post-Landy in the 90's, the more tension it caused within the Beach Boys. Mix in jealousy, or a general sense of perhaps seeing the reality of the situation play out in terms of fan opinion.

Maybe that aspect is also where there were two camps more clearly defined with separate motivations. Target the fans who were on the trip of the mid-90's cred surrounding the box sets and the legacy and all that and play the deeper cuts, or appeal to the people who got the "weekender" insert in their daily paper to see which acts were playing in town, and not knowing or caring whether it was Bruce or Brian at that keyboard but just going to hear the hits for a night out with live music.
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2017, 08:46:16 AM »

Unleash the love (of the Captain) LOL

In honor of Valentine's Day...uncork the Love!

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« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2017, 08:48:29 AM »

Mike is still pimping after all of these years! LOL LOL LOL
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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2017, 09:25:22 AM »

We need soniclovenoise to re mix these boots!
We need to hear 'I'm Going Home' in un- hissed glory.
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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2017, 10:34:31 AM »

By far BW's best solo work, and better than any BB record since Love You ... I'd love to see them released someday.

Honestly, if finished in a hip way in 1995-96 as a BB record, I think it would have started a new chapter in the group's career.

I don't know. I like the material but think that might be reaching--or maybe isn't, but isn't saying much.

- BW's best solo material. Personally I disagree with that: I'd rate it below BWPS, TLOS for sure, and if we're including covers behind Gershwin. Honestly, probably behind NPP, too, though it's all just one man's opinion. I do think it's his most conventional, and at least in the versions we have, maybe the best at neither catering to current fads nor fetishizing BW tropes of old.

- better than any BB album since Love You. Damning with faint praise!

- new chapter for BBs. That may be true, but as what? I'd say as a solid, but solidly, nostalgia act. Don't get me wrong, it would've been a more dignified identity than they had at the time. But maybe it would be more "hey Baby Boomers, this old band still makes albums for you--and don't forget to see them & buy a t-short and greatest hits comp this summer" rather than "hey world, this band makes great records."

Again, I like some of those songs and don't mean to sh*t on them or your opinion. Just my more cynical two cents.

It might not have been a huge hit but it's plausible it could have revitalized Brian as an artistic force, kind of having the same effect Flaming Pie had on Paul McCartney.
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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2017, 10:42:01 AM »

Definitely could have. Though I'd argue that happened with Brian regardless around/after then. It's more the effect on the others, probably.
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2017, 10:48:53 AM »

This may be inappropriate, but are the Paley Sessions on YouTube, or are they available on the market as a tangible b@@tleg?
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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2017, 12:07:10 AM »

By far BW's best solo work, and better than any BB record since Love You ... I'd love to see them released someday.

Honestly, if finished in a hip way in 1995-96 as a BB record, I think it would have started a new chapter in the group's career.

I don't know. I like the material but think that might be reaching--or maybe isn't, but isn't saying much.

- BW's best solo material. Personally I disagree with that: I'd rate it below BWPS, TLOS for sure, and if we're including covers behind Gershwin. Honestly, probably behind NPP, too, though it's all just one man's opinion. I do think it's his most conventional, and at least in the versions we have, maybe the best at neither catering to current fads nor fetishizing BW tropes of old.

- better than any BB album since Love You. Damning with faint praise!

- new chapter for BBs. That may be true, but as what? I'd say as a solid, but solidly, nostalgia act. Don't get me wrong, it would've been a more dignified identity than they had at the time. But maybe it would be more "hey Baby Boomers, this old band still makes albums for you--and don't forget to see them & buy a t-short and greatest hits comp this summer" rather than "hey world, this band makes great records."

Again, I like some of those songs and don't mean to sh*t on them or your opinion. Just my more cynical two cents.

It might not have been a huge hit but it's plausible it could have revitalized Brian as an artistic force, kind of having the same effect Flaming Pie had on Paul McCartney.
What effect did Flaming Pine Tree have on McPauly? He's been a spent force for years. Oh, he does great business on his tours, because people come to hear him sing his Beatles classics, but when was the last time anyone really cared about a new album from the guy?
There are some good songs on the Paley sessions, but they're no holy grail. There's a reason IJWMFTT and OCA came out and Paley sessions did not.
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