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Author Topic: The "WIBN" Guitar Intro Topic...again  (Read 2334 times)
c-man
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« on: February 01, 2017, 06:01:26 PM »

This one will never die...at least as long as people like me keep bringing it up...and forgive me if this was discussed when the book first came out, but in Brian's recent memoir, it's described as a Gibson mando-guitar (page 178). The way Brian refers to it as a "one-of-a-kind" guitar relates perfectly to how he described it back in '96 or '97 as being something really special - a"ringy-dingy" kind of guitar. We've discussed this at length over the past 5-6 years, but is it time to put it to rest with the knowledge that Brian has revealed the instrument's true identity? Or not...?
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2017, 08:55:59 PM »

Done and dusted.
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Emily
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« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2017, 09:04:47 PM »

Is there anyone else who was at the session who might still be around? Was it a guitar owned by Carl? Might Carl have mentioned it to his kids?
It's such a magic tone.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2017, 09:18:18 PM »

Is there anyone else who was at the session who might still be around? Was it a guitar owned by Carl? Might Carl have mentioned it to his kids?
It's such a magic tone.

It was custom built by Gibson for Barney Kessel.

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CM Punky Brewster
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2017, 01:11:04 AM »

My memory is foggy, but is it the instrument that Kessel is pictured holding in the booklet of the '97 Pet Sounds box?
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c-man
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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2017, 03:29:18 AM »

Done and dusted.

OK, cool - so, this begs the question - what OTHER songs might Barney's magic mando-guitar appear on? Barney is one of three guitarists on "The Little Girl I Once Knew" - but to me, those sound like "regular" dual electric 12-stings on that one...but what about the other Pet Sounds tracks on which he appears...I think "You Still Believe In Me" is a good candidate for the "mando" sound....and maybe "I Know There's An Answer" and "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times"....?
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Emily
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« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2017, 03:34:43 AM »

Is there anyone else who was at the session who might still be around? Was it a guitar owned by Carl? Might Carl have mentioned it to his kids?
It's such a magic tone.

It was custom built by Gibson for Barney Kessel.


Strange. I feel certain that I've had it asserted to me, also with great certainty, that Carl plays that bit.
Thank you.
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c-man
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« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2017, 03:46:00 AM »

Is there anyone else who was at the session who might still be around? Was it a guitar owned by Carl? Might Carl have mentioned it to his kids?
It's such a magic tone.

It was custom built by Gibson for Barney Kessel.


Strange. I feel certain that I've had it asserted to me, also with great certainty, that Carl plays that bit.
Thank you.

Emily - would you be thinking, perhaps, of "California Girls"? That's definitely Carl, with his 12-string Rickenbacker (joined by Jerry Cole).
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 05:08:00 AM by c-man » Logged
c-man
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« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2017, 04:04:54 AM »

Done and dusted.

OK, cool - so, this begs the question - what OTHER songs might Barney's magic mando-guitar appear on? Barney is one of three guitarists on "The Little Girl I Once Knew" - but to me, those sound like "regular" dual electric 12-stings on that one...but what about the other Pet Sounds tracks on which he appears...I think "You Still Believe In Me" is a good candidate for the "mando" sound....and maybe "I Know There's An Answer" and "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times"....?


Although, I should add that the instrumental tracks for "The Little Girl I Once Knew" and "My Childhood" (aka "You Still Believe In Me") were recorded on consecutive days...so maybe he DID use the same instrument on both...I'd have to listen to the two side-by-side, as I'm just going off of memory when I say the guitar sounds are markedly different...
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dombanzai
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« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2017, 04:16:56 PM »

Plug an Ipad into a charger and turn it on. The sound emitted always reminds me of the first note of Wouldn't It Be Nice. Sounds exactly the same.
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Emily
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« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2017, 07:55:41 PM »

Is there anyone else who was at the session who might still be around? Was it a guitar owned by Carl? Might Carl have mentioned it to his kids?
It's such a magic tone.

It was custom built by Gibson for Barney Kessel.


Strange. I feel certain that I've had it asserted to me, also with great certainty, that Carl plays that bit.
Thank you.

Emily - would you be thinking, perhaps, of "California Girls"? That's definitely Carl, with his 12-string Rickenbacker (joined by Jerry Cole).
Good grief. For years I've been blurring two sets of information into one. Thank you.
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JK
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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2017, 02:28:41 AM »

My memory is foggy, but is it the instrument that Kessel is pictured holding in the booklet of the '97 Pet Sounds box?

You mean this one...

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DonnyL
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« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2017, 09:20:32 AM »

This one will never die...at least as long as people like me keep bringing it up...and forgive me if this was discussed when the book first came out, but in Brian's recent memoir, it's described as a Gibson mando-guitar (page 178). The way Brian refers to it as a "one-of-a-kind" guitar relates perfectly to how he described it back in '96 or '97 as being something really special - a"ringy-dingy" kind of guitar. We've discussed this at length over the past 5-6 years, but is it time to put it to rest with the knowledge that Brian has revealed the instrument's true identity? Or not...?

Short of some kind of photographic evidence or session note, I'd say that's as good as it gets for verification.
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DonnyL
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« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2017, 09:50:53 AM »

Done and dusted.

OK, cool - so, this begs the question - what OTHER songs might Barney's magic mando-guitar appear on? Barney is one of three guitarists on "The Little Girl I Once Knew" - but to me, those sound like "regular" dual electric 12-stings on that one...but what about the other Pet Sounds tracks on which he appears...I think "You Still Believe In Me" is a good candidate for the "mando" sound....and maybe "I Know There's An Answer" and "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times"....?


That's a tough one ... there's so many layers that I doubt we'd be able to hear it conclusively. Maybe if you made out a list of all the sessions that Kessel was on, we could listen closely and guess!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 10:39:17 PM by DonnyL » Logged

aeijtzsche
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« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2017, 09:51:59 PM »

The only other song I'd be willing to stake my personal fortune upon Barney's use of that instrument is IKTAA.
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terrei
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« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2017, 05:00:44 AM »

This one will never die...at least as long as people like me keep bringing it up...and forgive me if this was discussed when the book first came out, but in Brian's recent memoir, it's described as a Gibson mando-guitar (page 178). The way Brian refers to it as a "one-of-a-kind" guitar relates perfectly to how he described it back in '96 or '97 as being something really special - a"ringy-dingy" kind of guitar. We've discussed this at length over the past 5-6 years, but is it time to put it to rest with the knowledge that Brian has revealed the instrument's true identity? Or not...?

In the same book, he says that "He Gives Speeches" is on BWPS.

If he couldn't remember it in '97, then it's extremely likely that Greenman was just filling in a blank. Hardly a verification.
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maggie
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« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2017, 09:02:14 AM »

This one will never die...at least as long as people like me keep bringing it up...and forgive me if this was discussed when the book first came out, but in Brian's recent memoir, it's described as a Gibson mando-guitar (page 178). The way Brian refers to it as a "one-of-a-kind" guitar relates perfectly to how he described it back in '96 or '97 as being something really special - a"ringy-dingy" kind of guitar. We've discussed this at length over the past 5-6 years, but is it time to put it to rest with the knowledge that Brian has revealed the instrument's true identity? Or not...?

In the same book, he says that "He Gives Speeches" is on BWPS.

The book doesn't say "Speeches" is on BWPS, it says the following (p. 209):

1> "She's Goin Bald" used to be "He Gives Speeches"
2> They used the Eltro on "Bald" (NOT "Speeches")
3> They used the Eltro effect in live BWPS gigs

I'm not sure where they used the Eltro on BWPS if anywhere (somewhere on H&V or "Gee"?), but the passage does not suggest that "Speeches" is on BWPS.

As to the original question, the WIBN intro is clearly a course-stringed instrument (you can hear the notes beating slightly with themselves) so Kessel's 12-string mandolin-body guitar (tuned EADGBE rather than in reverse as a normal mandolin would be, and pitched an octave higher than a normal guitar) is an obvious candidate.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 09:03:46 AM by maggie » Logged
aeijtzsche
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« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2017, 06:34:19 PM »

Quote
As to the original question, the WIBN intro is clearly a course-stringed instrument (you can hear the notes beating slightly with themselves) so Kessel's 12-string mandolin-body guitar (tuned EADGBE rather than in reverse as a normal mandolin would be, and pitched an octave higher than a normal guitar) is an obvious candidate.

Barney's would've had to have been, weirdly enough, pitched identically to a 12-string guitar.  Why someone would do that, who knows.  But when he noodles between takes you can hear him tuning, which gives it away.
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c-man
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« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2017, 03:49:31 AM »

This one will never die...at least as long as people like me keep bringing it up...and forgive me if this was discussed when the book first came out, but in Brian's recent memoir, it's described as a Gibson mando-guitar (page 178). The way Brian refers to it as a "one-of-a-kind" guitar relates perfectly to how he described it back in '96 or '97 as being something really special - a"ringy-dingy" kind of guitar. We've discussed this at length over the past 5-6 years, but is it time to put it to rest with the knowledge that Brian has revealed the instrument's true identity? Or not...?

In the same book, he says that "He Gives Speeches" is on BWPS.

If he couldn't remember it in '97, then it's extremely likely that Greenman was just filling in a blank. Hardly a verification.

BWPS didn't exist in '97...
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terrei
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2017, 11:05:07 AM »

BWPS didn't exist in '97...

When does Brian talk about a "ringy-dingy" guitar on BWPS?
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JK
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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2017, 12:35:06 PM »

BWPS didn't exist in '97...

When does Brian talk about a "ringy-dingy" guitar on BWPS?

I don't know about BWPS but I think this is what c-man was referring to (from his post of August 5, 2011):

I think I mentioned this sometime back, but in the premier issue of "Break Away with Brian Wilson" (Summer 1996), which was the BW fan club newsletter, there was an "Ask Brian" corner.  Someone wrote and asked "What is the instrument that starts 'Wouldn't It Be Nice'?".  Brian's reply was "It's two guitars - one played high up on the neck and the other one played regular".  In issue No. 4 (Fall 1997), he wrote little notes to many of the musicians who played on "Pet Sounds".  For Barney Kessel, he wrote "Thank you for your happy guitar on 'Wouldn't It Be Nice'.  It brought a kind of ring-a-ding sound.  It gives people a boost, a real good boost".  Barney was still alive at the time.  Based on this, I would be inclined to credit Barney with the dominate guitar part in the intro...whatever kind of guitar it may have been!

I can't link the source (not used to my upgraded PC yet!) but it's on p. 17 of "Aeijtzsche's Annual Assortment of potentially unsolvable BB mysteries". The entire topic is a blast.




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c-man
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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2017, 04:09:01 PM »

BWPS didn't exist in '97...

When does Brian talk about a "ringy-dingy" guitar on BWPS?

I don't know about BWPS but I think this is what c-man was referring to (from his post of August 5, 2011):

I think I mentioned this sometime back, but in the premier issue of "Break Away with Brian Wilson" (Summer 1996), which was the BW fan club newsletter, there was an "Ask Brian" corner.  Someone wrote and asked "What is the instrument that starts 'Wouldn't It Be Nice'?".  Brian's reply was "It's two guitars - one played high up on the neck and the other one played regular".  In issue No. 4 (Fall 1997), he wrote little notes to many of the musicians who played on "Pet Sounds".  For Barney Kessel, he wrote "Thank you for your happy guitar on 'Wouldn't It Be Nice'.  It brought a kind of ring-a-ding sound.  It gives people a boost, a real good boost".  Barney was still alive at the time.  Based on this, I would be inclined to credit Barney with the dominate guitar part in the intro...whatever kind of guitar it may have been!

I can't link the source (not used to my upgraded PC yet!) but it's on p. 17 of "Aeijtzsche's Annual Assortment of potentially unsolvable BB mysteries". The entire topic is a blast.






Yep, that's it!  Ring-a-ding-ding!
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hideyotsuburaya
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« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2017, 12:59:55 PM »

mr kessel can be seen here in this 1966 sonny & cher recording session film but unfortunately I don't think he has that mandolin-type guitar there: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhTjLy_LTcA
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