How to make Sunflower, Surf's Up, C&TPST, Holland & In Concent more successful?

[hongkongcrowe]

Hi Everyone,

What if we could go back in time to change the song lineup for each of the albums above that would have made them more commercially successful at the time?  I've seen various suggestions for improving each album but I would like to consolidate them here in one thread.  I'm not sure what changes I would make to Sunflower, maybe add Fallin in Love, but for Surf's Up I would include WIBNTOLA for sure.  As for C&TPST and Holland, I'm sure improvements could have been made especially to the former that would have made the album better.  Finally, with alll this in mind, could there have been more songs from these 4 albums featured on In Concert [which I still really enjoy].  I appreciate your insights and look forward to your suggestions!

[Adult Child]

More commercially successful? The Beach Boys were pretty unhip in 1970, unfortunately, so it would've required a great single and maybe condensing Sunflower and Surf's Up into one record. Despite how wrong this feels, as a single album, this

SIDE 1
1. This Whole World
2. Add Some Music To Your Day
3. All I Wanna Do
4. Forever
5. Cool, Cool Water
6. Barbara

SIDE 2
7. Long Promised Road
8. Disney Girls (1957)
9. Feel Flows
10. Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again)
11. Til I Die
12. Surf's Up

pushed by 'Surfs Up' and 'Forever' both being released as singles and all of it being promoted like mad would've been the best bet. But artistically that record feels wrong, especially without 'A Day In The Life of a Tree' in those final 3 songs, and just the fact that both of those records were perfect on their own. However, replacing 'Student Demonstration Time' with 'Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again)' would've made Surf's Up better, and maybe replacing 'It's About Time' on Sunflower with 'Barbara'.
 
After Surf's Up, as they became a hip group again (as opposed to the cold feet group they'd been for a few years), if they'd taken the best songs off of C&TPST and Holland and made one record out of it with 'Sail On Sailor'/'Marcella' as the single, that record probably would've been more successful than either of those records were individually. I imagine that album looking like this

1. You Need a Mess of Help To Stand Alone
2. Marcella
3. All This Is That
4. The Trader
5. Leaving This Town
6. Funky Pretty
7. California Saga: Big Sur
8. California Saga: The Beaks of Eagles
9. California Saga: California
10. Sail On Sailor

would've done that job.

[DonnyL]

Honestly, the best chance The Beach Boys had to be commercially successful in 1970 would have been to go in the opposite direction ... pure bubblegum, Partridge Family-style ... maybe with a cartoon or TV show.

[Adult Child]

Honestly, the best chance The Beach Boys had to be commercially successful in 1970 would have been to go in the opposite direction ... pure bubblegum, Partridge Family-style ... maybe with a cartoon or TV show.

Imagine one of those early morning TV shows starring the Beach Boys....

Bruce: "Today we're gonna bake a cake!"
Carl: "Mmm.... smell that! I'm sure.... gettin hungry!"
(awkward laughter)
Al: "How about some.... wild honey?"
(more awkward laughter)
Bruce: "Why don't we.... add some music?"
Al: "You can't put music into a cake, Bruce!"
Mike: "How about...."
Al: "You can't put meditation into a cake either, Michael."
Carl: "Besides, we have to follow the instructions here."
Mike (too excitedly): "That's right! We can never screw around with the formula, guys!"
Dennis: "I'd like to say 'Hi' to Brian! I bet he's watching this in his room. Let's all say 'Hi Brian!'"
Everybody: "Hi Brian!"
Al: "We're probably gonna have to bake a separate cake for Brian, you guys."
Dennis: "That Brian.... He could probably eat this whole world!"
(everybody groans)

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Ugh, NO....it's hard enough being a BB fan these days!

[rab2591]

Come on, Billy. Perhaps getting a headstart on acting early on in their career would've made their appearance on Full House a little more bearable

[Adult Child]

Ugh, NO....it's hard enough being a BB fan these days!

Are you a fan of them these days?

[Lonely Summer]

Honestly, the best chance The Beach Boys had to be commercially successful in 1970 would have been to go in the opposite direction ... pure bubblegum, Partridge Family-style ... maybe with a cartoon or TV show.

Imagine one of those early morning TV shows starring the Beach Boys....

Bruce: "Today we're gonna bake a cake!"
Carl: "Mmm.... smell that! I'm sure.... gettin hungry!"
(awkward laughter)
Al: "How about some.... wild honey?"
(more awkward laughter)
Bruce: "Why don't we.... add some music?"
Al: "You can't put music into a cake, Bruce!"
Mike: "How about...."
Al: "You can't put meditation into a cake either, Michael."
Carl: "Besides, we have to follow the instructions here."
Mike (too excitedly): "That's right! We can never screw around with the formula, guys!"
Dennis: "I'd like to say 'Hi' to Brian! I bet he's watching this in his room. Let's all say 'Hi Brian!'"
Everybody: "Hi Brian!"
Al: "We're probably gonna have to bake a separate cake for Brian, you guys."
Dennis: "That Brian.... He could probably eat this whole world!"
(everybody groans)

Mike: "did someone order a vegetarian pizza?"

[phirnis]

That stuff was more than 40 years ago, it's all water under the bridge. Their musical output at the time was excellent. Sunflower even had lots of Brian involvement and Surf's Up contained some of his very best material ever. Holland was incredibly consistent as an album. They had long hair and wore the clothes of the time. I think they did just about everything they could and it never really paid off. They weren't a 70s rock band even if they tried very hard to become one (and musically speaking I think that was a good thing!). Also, all of their efforts to be hip came a little late. Who was going to take them seriously after they cancelled the Smile project and put out stuff like Do It Again or I Can Hear Music afterwards? (Personally I totally love both those tracks, mind you.)

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Ugh, NO....it's hard enough being a BB fan these days!

Are you a fan of them these days?

up until the 80s, and again in 2012 as far as recorded output.  Still my favorite band of all time

[Cabinessenceking]

Honestly, the best chance The Beach Boys had to be commercially successful in 1970 would have been to go in the opposite direction ... pure bubblegum, Partridge Family-style ... maybe with a cartoon or TV show.

Imagine one of those early morning TV shows starring the Beach Boys....

Bruce: "Today we're gonna bake a cake!"
Carl: "Mmm.... smell that! I'm sure.... gettin hungry!"
(awkward laughter)
Al: "How about some.... wild honey?"
(more awkward laughter)
Bruce: "Why don't we.... add some music?"
Al: "You can't put music into a cake, Bruce!"
Mike: "How about...."
Al: "You can't put meditation into a cake either, Michael."
Carl: "Besides, we have to follow the instructions here."
Mike (too excitedly): "That's right! We can never screw around with the formula, guys!"
Dennis: "I'd like to say 'Hi' to Brian! I bet he's watching this in his room. Let's all say 'Hi Brian!'"
Everybody: "Hi Brian!"
Al: "We're probably gonna have to bake a separate cake for Brian, you guys."
Dennis: "That Brian.... He could probably eat this whole world!"
(everybody groans)

yikes

[HeyJude]

Honestly, the best chance The Beach Boys had to be commercially successful in 1970 would have been to go in the opposite direction ... pure bubblegum, Partridge Family-style ... maybe with a cartoon or TV show.

As I've often said, I'm sure Carl *loved* his role in this show idea......

[rab2591]

I think they should've made Surf's Up a double album and called it by it's working title Landlocked.

Wasn't part of calling it Surf's Up an attempt to market the title song to the underground music world that had built that song into mythical status since the Inside Pop special aired? These people would've heard regardless that 'Surf's Up' was on this album regardless of the title. Calling it Landlocked would've directly presented to the public a band that was stuck both in image and in having no place to go. But that message would be intentionally contradicting with a double LP full of the most incredible songs put on record. It would be the ultimate comeback album.

I like Adult Child's idea of combining the material from Sunflower and Surf's Up (though I have a fairly different track order). If this happened the media hype would be about the Beach Boys taking well more than a year to put together a magnum opus. Dennis would do some interviews with music mags and perhaps TV news, showcasing his growing talents with songwriting and piano playing...this would allow for more hype about the single 'Slip On Through'.



Side 1:

1. Slip On Through
2. Add Some Music
3. All I Wanna Do
4. Feel Flows

Side 2:

5. This Whole World
6. Where Is She (fully finished version with string section (this doesn't exist, just what I'd love to hear)
7. Don't Go Near The Water
8. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again (extended version)

Side 3.

9. Susie Cincinnati
10. Fallin In Love
11. Deidre
12. Our Sweet Love
13. Cool Cool Water

Side 4

14. Forever
15. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
16. Til I Die
17. Surf's Up

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Sunflower: I think It's About Time and This Whole World should have been singles.

It's About Time.                         This Whole Wolrd
All I Wanna Do.                          Add Some Music
Take a Load off Your Feet.           Dierdre                     
Slip on Through.                         Barbara
Our Sweet Love.                         At My Window
Tears in the Morning.                  Cool Coop Water
Forever

Surfs Up (Ecology): In my alternate universe Smile came out. So I retitled this one Ecology. This order works great I think!

Til I Die (Desper mix).          Don't Go Near the Water
Lady.                                   Long Promised Road
Feel Flows.                           When Girls Get Together
Sweet and Bitter.                  Carnival
Looking At Tomorrow             My Solution
Disney Girls.                         A Day in the Life of a Tree
Out in the Country.               Wouldn't it Be Nice to Live Again

So Tough/Holland: I like this as a double album

1.                                   2
Sail On Sailor.                  Funky Pretty
Marcella.                         Here She Comes
Hold On Dear Brother.      A Mess of Help
Trader.                            Leaving this Town
Cuddle Up.                      Carry Me Home

3.                                   4
Big  Sur.                          Mount Vernon and Fairway     
Beaks of Eagles.               (Gap to surprise track)
California                         He Come Down
Steam Boat
All This is That
Fourth of July

[DonnyL]

Honestly, the best chance The Beach Boys had to be commercially successful in 1970 would have been to go in the opposite direction ... pure bubblegum, Partridge Family-style ... maybe with a cartoon or TV show.

As I've often said, I'm sure Carl *loved* his role in this show idea......

Ha I was thinking about this cartoon ...

Honestly, nixing "Seasons in the Sun" and "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" shows you where the band were at -- they were still trying to shed their past image.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Honestly, the best chance The Beach Boys had to be commercially successful in 1970 would have been to go in the opposite direction ... pure bubblegum, Partridge Family-style ... maybe with a cartoon or TV show.

How about a sitcom?

https://twitter.com/bbsitcom

[joshferrell]

Finish and release more "Smile" stuff on these albums and they would have sold more, just look at the "Surf's Up" album, that was considered their "Cool and hip" album from that time period.

[Lonely Summer]

It doesn't matter what songs are on the albums if they don't get airplay. By the time of Holland, they were getting SOME FM airplay, but not enough to sell millions of albums. I think the albums they put out were fine as they were - CATP is the only one that I find disappointing, variable material, kind of underproduced, and only 8 songs? Surf's Up has 1 or 2 songs I don't absolutely love, but the rest I would leave alone. In fact, the album that could use an upgrade is the live album. No Dennis Wilson songs on a live album from his songwriting prime? Only one Carl song? Where are "Long Promised Road" and "Feel Flows"? No "Surf's Up"? I recognize it is hard to make a definitive track list with a live album, but there are other songs they could add for an expanded cd reissue.

[hongkongcrowe]

thanks everyone for replying - some good ideas here, especially the Landlocked double album.  I'm always looking to make new playlists so I appreciate your suggestions.

[rab2591]

1. You Need a Mess of Help To Stand Alone
2. Marcella
3. All This Is That
4. The Trader
5. Leaving This Town
6. Funky Pretty
7. California Saga: Big Sur
8. California Saga: The Beaks of Eagles
9. California Saga: California
10. Sail On Sailor

I love this track listing! I can see why they put SOS at the beginning of the album, but it works so well at the end. Definitely making this tracklist into a playlist.