AGD missing, the future of this forum

[SMiLE Brian]

Interesting reading threads like this in hindsight:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11204.0.html

[You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered]

Interesting reading threads like this in hindsight:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11204.0.html

Wow, the irony is killing me.

I think we can all agree Melinda is a an avid SS reader

You mean...SMiLE Brian??!!   

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

def. a case of "pot kettle black"

The irony is truly ironic...

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

the funny thing is that i have insider info that says the person who has been caused "disquiet and concern" is AGD himself.

wow...summerinparadise.flac was RIGHT ON THE MONEY

[Ang Jones]

AG(Do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do) Doe.

I wonder how he feels about being SS-less now?

[thorgil]

Welcome back, Ang!
This thread has been very useful after all: it contributed to "bringing back" two of the most valuable posters a music forum could have: Stephen Desper and Ang Jones.
That's what I call the Power of Truth. Truth is never useless.

[thorgil]

Just found that topic, I recalled it's sth. to do with setting the record straight, here's post about OSD: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14464.msg326433.html#msg326433

Thanks RR for this reminder of how this board REALLY was when it was "healthy, thriving and full of great contributions by real experts".

AGD saying something dumb and mean, and OSD responding with a homophobic comment ... classic Smiley.

You all would do well to remove your blinders so you can see past the political Brian-camp/Mike-camp politics.

AGD was clearly a jerk in some of his posts, but he was a knowledgeable jerk. At the end of the day, he contributed a wealth of knowledge to the board. Some other posters are simply jerks in some of their posts. I'm sure we're all sweet peaches in real life and we'd get along just dandy.

No amount of knowledge can condone behaviour like that, particularly the bits about Ang and OSD. I wonder who should remove their blinders.
And OSD is not the same as AGD. He has just one pet peeve: Mike. It's an understandable peeve, as ML, after his initial great contributions, has been a perpetual frustration to all at least minimally objective BB fans. OSD has always taken a lot of flack for that, more than warranted, but he sounds like a nice guy... provided you can accept that he doesn't like Mike.
 

[Ang Jones]

Welcome back, Ang!
This thread has been very useful after all: it contributed to "bringing back" two of the most valuable posters a music forum could have: Stephen Desper and Ang Jones.
That's what I call the Power of Truth. Truth is never useless.

Thanks so much thorgil although Stephen Desper is far more valuable a poster than I am.  You are too IMO and I'm not just writing that because of your compliment either - your posts are unfailingly thoughtful and interesting.

I certainly don't blame OSD for being critical of Mike - sometimes I try to forgive and forget Mike's behaviour but then Mike does another interview or book and it's back to square one. It is a challenge to forgive repeat offenders even when we know there are good aspects to their characters as well as bad.

[SMiLE Brian]

OSD was there in real time from the 1960s onward to see his favorite band torn apart by Mike Love!

[Debbie KL]

So glad to see both Desper and Ang back!  I've been a bit MIA lately due to being overwhelmed by things that belong in the Sandbox, but I'm happy to see this place vital.  I don't think this has been an AGD thread for awhile, but more about inclusiveness, as long as it's honest.  I suspect my politics don't match Desper's these days, but I really don't care as long as we're discussing music.

Here's the thing in our faces, particularly as Americans here...do we want entertainment in place of the truth?  I think both can happen if we hold ourselves to integrity.  I watched Mr. Desper in the studio and at the board at concerts in the late 60's/early 70's and he is frikkin' brilliant.  He tells the truth when he speaks to this. Ang is a remarkably smart true fan of not only Brian Wilson, but any expression of brilliance in the arts.  Their commentary is truly appreciated.

As far as AGD, I'll leave it to the group to work that out.  I used to enjoy chatting with him, nearly always non-BB related.  I haven't heard from him in awhile. I tend to wonder why... ;-)  Have fun with that one...

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

So glad to see both Desper and Ang back!  I've been a bit MIA lately due to being overwhelmed by things that belong in the Sandbox, but I'm happy to see this place vital.  I don't think this has been an AGD thread for awhile, but more about inclusiveness, as long as it's honest.  I suspect my politics don't match Desper's these days, but I really don't care as long as we're discussing music.

Here's the thing in our faces, particularly as Americans here...do we want entertainment in place of the truth?  I think both can happen if we hold ourselves to integrity.  I watched Mr. Desper in the studio and at the board at concerts in the late 60's/early 70's and he is frikkin' brilliant.  He tells the truth when he speaks to this. Ang is a remarkably smart true fan of not only Brian Wilson, but any expression of brilliance in the arts.  Their commentary is truly appreciated.

As far as AGD, I'll leave it to the group to work that out.  I used to enjoy chatting with him, nearly always non-BB related.  I haven't heard from him in awhile. I tend to wonder why... ;-)  Have fun with that one...

Well put as usual.

[Ang Jones]

So glad to see both Desper and Ang back!  I've been a bit MIA lately due to being overwhelmed by things that belong in the Sandbox, but I'm happy to see this place vital.  I don't think this has been an AGD thread for awhile, but more about inclusiveness, as long as it's honest.  I suspect my politics don't match Desper's these days, but I really don't care as long as we're discussing music.

Here's the thing in our faces, particularly as Americans here...do we want entertainment in place of the truth?  I think both can happen if we hold ourselves to integrity.  I watched Mr. Desper in the studio and at the board at concerts in the late 60's/early 70's and he is frikkin' brilliant.  He tells the truth when he speaks to this. Ang is a remarkably smart true fan of not only Brian Wilson, but any expression of brilliance in the arts.  Their commentary is truly appreciated.

As far as AGD, I'll leave it to the group to work that out.  I used to enjoy chatting with him, nearly always non-BB related.  I haven't heard from him in awhile. I tend to wonder why... ;-)  Have fun with that one...

Thanks so much for your words Debbie. On the occasions I don't post for awhile and then come back, I wonder why I did so because it nearly always improves my day. Even the arguments can be interesting!  And I agree, the thread seems to have gone beyond being just about AGD's absence from this message board but that's typical too - you throw a pebble in the stream and the ripples tend to move outwards.

[thorgil]

And we had a couple very good, and probably unexpected, ripples here!

[Seaside Woman]

And we had a couple very good, and probably unexpected, ripples here!

Seconded ...

[Debbie KL]

So glad to see both Desper and Ang back!  I've been a bit MIA lately due to being overwhelmed by things that belong in the Sandbox, but I'm happy to see this place vital.  I don't think this has been an AGD thread for awhile, but more about inclusiveness, as long as it's honest.  I suspect my politics don't match Desper's these days, but I really don't care as long as we're discussing music.

Here's the thing in our faces, particularly as Americans here...do we want entertainment in place of the truth?  I think both can happen if we hold ourselves to integrity.  I watched Mr. Desper in the studio and at the board at concerts in the late 60's/early 70's and he is frikkin' brilliant.  He tells the truth when he speaks to this. Ang is a remarkably smart true fan of not only Brian Wilson, but any expression of brilliance in the arts.  Their commentary is truly appreciated.

As far as AGD, I'll leave it to the group to work that out.  I used to enjoy chatting with him, nearly always non-BB related.  I haven't heard from him in awhile. I tend to wonder why... ;-)  Have fun with that one...

Well put as usual.

Thanks!

[SteveMC]

I'll probably get quite a lot of argument about this, but I'll say it anyway. I think that the belief that everybody over on PSF are evil is toxic, and I believe that PSF believing everybody on the SS board are evil is also toxic. Somewhere down the line this board split into two factions, with everybody against everybody else. I can't even muster up enough energy to be pissed off anymore. I'm just incredibly sad. SmileySmile used to be the number 1 Beach Boy's website on the internet. But not any longer. In the last day or so I've come to believe that everybody banned starting with Andrew Doe to today should be allowed to come back for 30 days. If those 30 days end without any "incidents", then another 30 should be added, and we would just play it by ear from there. Of course, more than two mods would be needed to help keep an eye on certain people.

I can tell you he has a few minions & nut huggers that use the same MO over there. They flood you with PMs to curb your freedom of expression. They are an utterly disgusting group of people. However, there are some good people over there that are lost in the shuffle not affiliated with "the expert".  And of course some good folks are on both places., well, really only kds.

[Custom Machine]

I'll probably get quite a lot of argument about this, but I'll say it anyway. I think that the belief that everybody over on PSF are evil is toxic, and I believe that PSF believing everybody on the SS board are evil is also toxic. Somewhere down the line this board split into two factions, with everybody against everybody else. I can't even muster up enough energy to be pissed off anymore. I'm just incredibly sad. SmileySmile used to be the number 1 Beach Boy's website on the internet. But not any longer. In the last day or so I've come to believe that everybody banned starting with Andrew Doe to today should be allowed to come back for 30 days. If those 30 days end without any "incidents", then another 30 should be added, and we would just play it by ear from there. Of course, more than two mods would be needed to help keep an eye on certain people.

I can tell you he has a few minions & nut huggers that use the same MO over there. They flood you with PMs to curb your freedom of expression. They are an utterly disgusting group of people. However, there are some good people over there that are lost in the shuffle not affiliated with "the expert".  And of course some good folks are on both places., well, really only kds.

Well, I read and post (rather infrequently) on both boards, am not affiliated with "the expert" or anyone else over on the PS board, and have never received even one PM to curb my freedom of expression.

I'm am bummed, however, to learn that SteveMC, whoever he is, has excluded me, Desper, and others who post on both boards, with the exception of kds, from the "good folks" category!

Personally, I'd like to see peace between the two boards. Doesn't mean various members have to agree with each other, but I don't think bashing all the members of either board achieves anything of positive consequence in the world of BB/BW fandom.

[SteveMC]

I'll probably get quite a lot of argument about this, but I'll say it anyway. I think that the belief that everybody over on PSF are evil is toxic, and I believe that PSF believing everybody on the SS board are evil is also toxic. Somewhere down the line this board split into two factions, with everybody against everybody else. I can't even muster up enough energy to be pissed off anymore. I'm just incredibly sad. SmileySmile used to be the number 1 Beach Boy's website on the internet. But not any longer. In the last day or so I've come to believe that everybody banned starting with Andrew Doe to today should be allowed to come back for 30 days. If those 30 days end without any "incidents", then another 30 should be added, and we would just play it by ear from there. Of course, more than two mods would be needed to help keep an eye on certain people.

I can tell you he has a few minions & nut huggers that use the same MO over there. They flood you with PMs to curb your freedom of expression. They are an utterly disgusting group of people. However, there are some good people over there that are lost in the shuffle not affiliated with "the expert".  And of course some good folks are on both places., well, really only kds.

Well, I read and post (rather infrequently) on both boards, am not affiliated with "the expert" or anyone else over on the PS board, and have never received even one PM to curb my freedom of expression.

I'm am bummed, however, to learn that SteveMC, whoever he is, has excluded me, Desper, and others who post on both boards, with the exception of kds, from the "good folks" category!

Personally, I'd like to see peace between the two boards. Doesn't mean various members have to agree with each other, but I don't think bashing all the members of either board achieves anything of positive consequence in the world of BB/BW fandom.

Sorry custom machine, I don't know you but perhaps you can build a custom machine and merge the best elements for your own enjoyment.  But if you're sympathetic to that I'd like to continue not knowing you.   I kid, I kid. Nice meeting you.

[Custom Machine]

I'll probably get quite a lot of argument about this, but I'll say it anyway. I think that the belief that everybody over on PSF are evil is toxic, and I believe that PSF believing everybody on the SS board are evil is also toxic. Somewhere down the line this board split into two factions, with everybody against everybody else. I can't even muster up enough energy to be pissed off anymore. I'm just incredibly sad. SmileySmile used to be the number 1 Beach Boy's website on the internet. But not any longer. In the last day or so I've come to believe that everybody banned starting with Andrew Doe to today should be allowed to come back for 30 days. If those 30 days end without any "incidents", then another 30 should be added, and we would just play it by ear from there. Of course, more than two mods would be needed to help keep an eye on certain people.

I can tell you he has a few minions & nut huggers that use the same MO over there. They flood you with PMs to curb your freedom of expression. They are an utterly disgusting group of people. However, there are some good people over there that are lost in the shuffle not affiliated with "the expert".  And of course some good folks are on both places., well, really only kds.

Well, I read and post (rather infrequently) on both boards, am not affiliated with "the expert" or anyone else over on the PS board, and have never received even one PM to curb my freedom of expression.

I'm am bummed, however, to learn that SteveMC, whoever he is, has excluded me, Desper, and others who post on both boards, with the exception of kds, from the "good folks" category!

Personally, I'd like to see peace between the two boards. Doesn't mean various members have to agree with each other, but I don't think bashing all the members of either board achieves anything of positive consequence in the world of BB/BW fandom.

Sorry custom machine, I don't know you but perhaps you can build a custom machine and merge the best elements for your own enjoyment.  But if you're sympathetic to that I'd like to continue not knowing you.   I kid, I kid. Nice meeting you.

Nice "meeting you" as well.

[SteveMC]

I'll probably get quite a lot of argument about this, but I'll say it anyway. I think that the belief that everybody over on PSF are evil is toxic, and I believe that PSF believing everybody on the SS board are evil is also toxic. Somewhere down the line this board split into two factions, with everybody against everybody else. I can't even muster up enough energy to be pissed off anymore. I'm just incredibly sad. SmileySmile used to be the number 1 Beach Boy's website on the internet. But not any longer. In the last day or so I've come to believe that everybody banned starting with Andrew Doe to today should be allowed to come back for 30 days. If those 30 days end without any "incidents", then another 30 should be added, and we would just play it by ear from there. Of course, more than two mods would be needed to help keep an eye on certain people.

I can tell you he has a few minions & nut huggers that use the same MO over there. They flood you with PMs to curb your freedom of expression. They are an utterly disgusting group of people. However, there are some good people over there that are lost in the shuffle not affiliated with "the expert".  And of course some good folks are on both places., well, really only kds.

Well, I read and post (rather infrequently) on both boards, am not affiliated with "the expert" or anyone else over on the PS board, and have never received even one PM to curb my freedom of expression.

I'm am bummed, however, to learn that SteveMC, whoever he is, has excluded me, Desper, and others who post on both boards, with the exception of kds, from the "good folks" category!

Personally, I'd like to see peace between the two boards. Doesn't mean various members have to agree with each other, but I don't think bashing all the members of either board achieves anything of positive consequence in the world of BB/BW fandom.

Sorry custom machine, I don't know you but perhaps you can build a custom machine and merge the best elements for your own enjoyment.  But if you're sympathetic to that I'd like to continue not knowing you.   I kid, I kid. Nice meeting you.

Nice "meeting you" as well.

I can already tell you're a "wonderful person" like your friends in Kokomo-istan.   

[guitarfool2002]

I'll probably get quite a lot of argument about this, but I'll say it anyway. I think that the belief that everybody over on PSF are evil is toxic, and I believe that PSF believing everybody on the SS board are evil is also toxic. Somewhere down the line this board split into two factions, with everybody against everybody else. I can't even muster up enough energy to be pissed off anymore. I'm just incredibly sad. SmileySmile used to be the number 1 Beach Boy's website on the internet. But not any longer. In the last day or so I've come to believe that everybody banned starting with Andrew Doe to today should be allowed to come back for 30 days. If those 30 days end without any "incidents", then another 30 should be added, and we would just play it by ear from there. Of course, more than two mods would be needed to help keep an eye on certain people.

I can tell you he has a few minions & nut huggers that use the same MO over there. They flood you with PMs to curb your freedom of expression. They are an utterly disgusting group of people. However, there are some good people over there that are lost in the shuffle not affiliated with "the expert".  And of course some good folks are on both places., well, really only kds.

Well, I read and post (rather infrequently) on both boards, am not affiliated with "the expert" or anyone else over on the PS board, and have never received even one PM to curb my freedom of expression.

I'm am bummed, however, to learn that SteveMC, whoever he is, has excluded me, Desper, and others who post on both boards, with the exception of kds, from the "good folks" category!

Personally, I'd like to see peace between the two boards. Doesn't mean various members have to agree with each other, but I don't think bashing all the members of either board achieves anything of positive consequence in the world of BB/BW fandom.

I'd like to reply to this and do so with the notion that some of it is personal and has quite a way to go before being resolved.

I don't know how much more can be said on the topic of members receiving PM's from certain members no longer here, messages which in some *very specific* cases led to people being upset by them enough to literally quit the board. This kind of activity was strictly against the rules, and was dealt with. Some of those issues are not public, but they did happen and there is still proof along with whatever follow-up actions were taken, whether or not other members ever received these messages or not. It means nothing whether someone else didn't get them if there were numbers of members here who did get them and in certain cases were upset enough to report them.

Fast forward to the ps forum, and there was another case several months ago where a member there received a threat via PM just as had been happening here, and apparently there were no consequences against the member sending it - Alan Smith. I hope all of that got straightened out, because it was right in line with the same kind of garbage that was happening here until it was reported and stopped.

If there is *still* stuff going on with the PM system on the ps forum, I hope the new or interim mods take aggressive action to stop it, because THAT kind of idiotic behavior and bullying thinking no one would know it was happening is what contributed to a bad scene here. Keep in mind how "the mods" were bashed and criticized for not enforcing rules, yet when that rule was enforced regarding the abuse of the PM system and using it to bully people and other garbage, we got blamed for all the ills of the forum in general. Consider who was crying foul the loudest in those criticisms.

I have to address Custom Machine as well, after the call for peace: With all of the history involved, why did you sit by and watch people lying and bashing me specifically along with this whole community for months in light of what you just posted here? I'm all for peace and love too, but not when the lies and distortions are still being posted on communities like ps forum where "the mods" from Smiley have zero involvement, and never did. I don't recall any calls for an end to it and a call for peace when any number of people who moved on or got banned from this board, and now have moved on or left the ps forum, were regularly taking personal shots at Billy and I over moderation issues here, and beyond that, continuing to post lies about various issues including reasons for a ban when in some cases the truth is spelled out right here on this board.

Simple logic and troubleshooting/testing methods say that if the case is made that a certain variable or element is causing the problems, you run the next test so that variable is removed entirely and see if the results change accordingly.

The end result in this case is despite all the blame and finger-pointing against the mods here and other factors trying to say they "ruined" this board and caused the drama and dust-ups which were tearing it apart, those factors had ZERO involvement on a new board - yet similar issues now including reports of the PM bullshit happening there too have been hitting the ps forum.

So in retrospect, consider if it were the mods' fault here, yet the mods aren't a factor in the ps forum but the group or groups of banned members are there... 2+2=4, sometimes it's that simple of a solution. Maybe the calls for peace should be directed at those who have been causing issues on message boards and fan communities for years and are simply continuing that same behavior on a new forum.

Liars gonna lie, as they say. Bullies are gonna bully until they are confronted and stopped. And leopards cannot change their spots, indeed.

2+2=4

[pixletwin]

I think it's embarrassing that there are two threads with AGD in the title. Can we at least merge them. This place just feeds the guys ego.

[Custom Machine]

Looks like I unintentionally stepped into a hornet’s net.

Prior to my post above I had not posted anything on either board about the other board, it’s moderators, or it’s members, but when SteveMC responded to Jay’s post I thought it might be good to express the hope for peace between the two boards. Apparently it’s to early in the game for that, as SteveMC came back with a comment about Kokomo-istan and it is very apparent that GF remains quite upset about the events that transpired.

As a senior member of this board, who was around when the BBs released Surfin’ in Dec. 1961, became a mega fan when BB Today was released, and a rabid fan upon the release of Sunflower, I’ve seen plenty of drama on BB boards. In addition to events that have transpired here, it hasn’t been all smooth sailing on the new PS board either. Mods have come and gone, with a couple recently resigning. I don’t know the backstory, and in fact had to ask someone who exactly the current PS mods were, as I hadn’t gone to the trouble of paying attention.

Don’t know what to say concerning this info about Alan Smith. We are both fans of vinyl and audio equipment (both modern and vintage) and he has always come across to me as a really good guy, with some great posts on both the SS and PS boards, although he recently announced he was leaving the PS board. I’ve sent him a message for his take on this. I can also tell you, Craig, that I’ve told a number of people that you and I share an interest in vintage top 40 airchecks, and that you came across as a really good guy when we corresponded about our mutual interest in those old radio broadcasts, as well as other areas of conversation such as recommended New England lobster shacks, as well as telling people that you have been responsible for some of the most interesting and well researched posts on this board concerning BB history.

Guess I like to think of myself as a Swiss David Marks, one who moves freely between both boards. I understand some very unpleasant stuff went down, but for me I think it’s now time to focus our energies on the task at hand - discussing BW and the BBs. There are some interesting and educaitonal posts on both boards, and that discourse is what I’m here (and there) for.

[guitarfool2002]

I agree with those sentiments, and felt the same way coming from another angle. It's just that lies are still being told and posted (and worse,  believed), similar behavior that drove people off this forum seems to have continued onto the PS forum while the mods here were blamed for somehow ruining this forum, and a lot of damage was done to people that will take time or at least some kind of an acknowledgement or apology to help start healing things. At this point the lies are still appearing regularly and there are more efforts to double down than there are to even acknowledge wrongdoing even in the most minor way. And there is a lot more to the whole thing than interpersonal squabbling and grudges. i find it sad too that it interrupts or distracts from talking about the really good stuff and digging deep into that.

[MikestheGreatest!!]

This thread is Snowflake Central...sensitive little bunch!