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Author Topic: Keepin' The Summer Alive  (Read 19052 times)
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2017, 09:42:54 PM »

A study video would be most enlightening,  I can imagine
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« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2017, 10:20:54 PM »

COMMENT:   Some day I’ll re-master it as a study-video, and bring out what is missing for . . .

Good Listening,
  ~Stephen W. Desper


THAT would be ultra cool.  As always... ... ...Thanks for the input Stephen.
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« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2017, 06:23:12 AM »

I'd also say the "Going Platinum" TV special/documentary on the making of the KTSA albums is quite interesting, and surprisingly honest about the album's iffy chance at being a "hit" for the band.

It also has some good recording studio footage; I believe some of the footage was shot at Al's Big Sur studio, including a cool quick bit of footage of the guys doing group vocals on "Goin' On."

Also interesting is that in the lip-synched performances of some of the album songs shown in the TV special, shot in a TV studio in LA, at least a couple of the mixes of the songs are different from the eventual album. I recall in particular that the end of "Oh Darlin'" has less vocal overdubs.

There's an interview somewhere from 2000s where Al mentions in passing that he seemed to be disappointing and/or frustrated that the band didn't use his Big Sur studio more; as in, he built this studio presumably at least in part with group work in mind, and they never used it as much as he would have liked.
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« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2017, 06:29:33 AM »

Honestly this album isn't and hasn't been on my regular playlist or any list in general...BUT if there were an opportunity to hear it remastered with a new sonic perspective and commentary, I'd definitely welcome that with open ears!
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2017, 09:55:20 AM »


Thank you so much for you insight! That studio sounds like it was an amazing place.

COMMENT to rab2591:  Rumbo Recorders was a great studio in it's day. I don't know if it is still there as a studio or not.

Here is a link to the old website (now defunct) >>> http://captainandtennille.net/rumbo_pgs/rumbohome.html

At the link you can see the outside of the building, the lounge, studio A control room and studio room, and little photos of Studios B & C.

Not shown is the secret, or should I say, unknown to most people, upstairs studio build on the top floor and part of the building's attic. It was for the private use of Daryl Dragon. In it were several synthesizers, keyboards, console, and a couple of large couches for those late-night-sessions. it had a separate entrance apart from the studio so Daryl could come and go without notice. In addition to the studio profit, Daryl had income from the many "contract recordings," as they are called in the commercial production end of this industry. You would be impressed with how many commercial themes, or themes used in commercials, that Daryl was behind. Such themes or jingles go without credit, of course, but nevertheless someone has to compose them and he was good at it. Themes would be the music behind some statement, the most famous being, Doris Day singing: See the USA in your Chevrolet. But themes also may not have words like this >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRLyMjvug1M  , which is the INTEL theme. Someone had to write this for an ad agency -- and that's the sort of thing Daryl did in his upstairs workshop.

Otherwise Rumbo saw many artists using its facility such as Guns and Roses Appetite For Destruction to name only one of many. There's a partial list at the website.


~swd
 
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« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2017, 10:08:08 AM »

Mr. Desper -

Do you have any recollection of unreleased tracks from the KTSA sessions, like Ed Carter's "Surfer Susie,"  Carl's cover "I'll Always Love You" or a new and/or finished version of "Been Way Too Long/Can't Wait Too Long?"
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« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2017, 12:23:33 PM »

Mr. Desper -

Do you have any recollection of unreleased tracks from the KTSA sessions, like Ed Carter's "Surfer Susie,"  Carl's cover "I'll Always Love You" or a new and/or finished version of "Been Way Too Long/Can't Wait Too Long?"

COMMENT to Steve Latshaw: I may. I have lots of stuff on acetate, cassette, and reel2reel, and in my library from this and previous times. Soon I will be starting to make copies of all this stuff and make it available from time to time in the section on my website called "Archives." Many of these items are poorly labeled, but are parts that fit together to form the overall historical picture. I think many times the fan base is better equipped to peg what and where these "snippets of production" fall. Look for that to start after the second part of my book is released later this year. ~swd
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« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2017, 05:09:24 PM »

what's the story behind "Oh Darlin" was that an older Brian song dusted off for the album or was it a song he started (on a demo?) and Mike finished it? also was "Jamaican Farewell" one of the choices for the album like the rumors say? and if so is there an actual Beach Boys version of that song in the vaults?
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« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2017, 08:36:33 PM »

what's the story behind "Oh Darlin" was that an older Brian song dusted off for the album or was it a song he started (on a demo?) and Mike finished it? also was "Jamaican Farewell" one of the choices for the album like the rumors say? and if so is there an actual Beach Boys version of that song in the vaults?

COMMENT to joshferell: It's not outside the realm of posibillities, but I can bring no facts to the subject. Sorry  ~swd
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« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2017, 08:45:11 PM »

what's the story behind "Oh Darlin" was that an older Brian song dusted off for the album or was it a song he started (on a demo?) and Mike finished it? also was "Jamaican Farewell" one of the choices for the album like the rumors say? and if so is there an actual Beach Boys version of that song in the vaults?

COMMENT to joshferell: It's not outside the realm of posibillities, but I can bring no facts to the subject. Sorry  ~swd
That's okay.... :-)
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« Reply #60 on: January 26, 2017, 06:25:59 AM »

what's the story behind "Oh Darlin" was that an older Brian song dusted off for the album or was it a song he started (on a demo?) and Mike finished it?

I've never heard of any evidence that "Oh, Darlin'" was an extremely older song dusted off.

It is interesting that the "early" version/mix of the song features all Brian lead vocals, some alternate lyrics, and no lead vocal at all on the bridge. Brian's vocal sounds very much to me like a "guide" vocal rather than at attempt at a finished, polished lead. I wouldn't be surprised if he may have assumed all along he would be handing the vocal off to Carl.

But I tend to think it's possible that the simplest answer is likely, that they simply rewrote some of the lyrics (perhaps where Mike's contribution came in most strongly), and then re-recorded the lead vocals with the smoother Carl lead and then with Mike's bridge.

Again, I *love* the dissonant backing vocals under that bridge. It's so weird they pretty rarely did something like that, especially in this era.
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« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2017, 07:26:12 AM »

COMMENT:   As you may recall, I was the chief engineer on this album. Following are some details, from the engineer’s perspective, that may be of interest.

Bruce Johnston was selected by the group to produce this album. Bruce called me and ask if I would engineer this time. It had been many years since Brian’s house studio in BelAir was closed.

I’m sure as a favor and recognition for his contribution to their music, everyone agreed to do the entire album at Rumbo Studios, designed and owned by Daryl Dragon. There were three large studios in the complex, plus a luxurious lounge and food bar decorated in a nautical theme – even portholes to look out. It was a first-class facility.

The Beach Boys booked the entire studio complex for two months. Lock out.

All the studios had English made Neve boards. These were (electrical linear circuit) Class A consoles and highly rated. All tape machines were Swiss made by Studer. The studios were acoustically easy to work in and beautifully finished.

I chose one studio for the standard control room, in which all songs were mixed down. The other studios were used for variation, and from time to time, my second would engineer add-one-instrument session in another studio while others were working in the standard studio. But for the most part, most everything was recorded in the standard, or main control room, because of the recording equipment.  

This was to be the most complex analog recording the boys ever did. Two monster Studer 24 track (2”) tape machines dominated one wall behind the console. The two machines were tied together (master and slave) to provide 46 tracks of analog audio. One, non-audio track (Track 9) on each machine was dedicated to “synchronization” that kept the two machines in absolute running sync. In practice it took about 15 seconds from the time you pushed the start button until the two machines were in sync. The fully analog console had 96 I/O modules (sliders) that were able to remember position and move to it. An excellent sounding console that was automated in the analog realm.

Far-field monitors were JBL. Near-field monitors were Yamaha.

Bruce as producer was there every day – and quite organized with a daily production agenda. Even though they had only two months, this was not to become much of a group effort, as a group. Rather, each day one Beach Boy would visit and do some recording that Bruce had conceived, or they would work on something together. Most of the time it was Bruce interacting with only one Beach Boy. Carl was there about 70% of the time and Alan 40% and Michael 10%.  Dennis popped in one time, but only listened. If I remember correctly, Brian also visited once along with Marilyn.

Outside musicians were used for many of the sounds on this album. Obviously, lots of stacking was done for vocal sound – good thing we had all those tracks.

My personal feeling about the album is that technology dictated too much of the production value. I call it “the multi-track dichotomy.” That is, the desire to fill every available track. Too much production – some would say, over produced. Having engineered for them in both situations, I know they work better as a team with fewer tracks. But at the time the team seemed fractured due to private life schedules, living in different cities, personal feelings. Of the few days two or more boys were there at the same time, they recorded in separate studios.

So I think this is reflected in the finish product, although Carl manages to give us some wonderful leads.

I have never liked any of the masterings I’ve heard for this album. Some day I’ll re-master it as a study-video, and bring out what is missing for . . .

Good Listening,
 ~Stephen W. Desper



Mr Desper, you say the members of the band come in sporadically and recorded separately. Was this also done when recording the harmonies, and, if this was the case, how could they record the harmonies separately?
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« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2017, 11:38:31 AM »

While it's possible the "Red Barn" sessions in the "Going Platinum" TV special were sort of done just for the cameras, that footage shows the group together doing vocals for "Goin' On", and Brian, Carl, and Mike around a piano working on "Goin' to the Beach", so I would imagine they weren't literally *always* working on the album one-by-one and did do some group vocal sessions.
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« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2017, 01:35:10 PM »

I was wondering the same thing, where do the Red Barn sessions for vocals fit in the timeline?
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« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2017, 09:58:43 AM »

I actually dig this album...maybe more than most for sentimental reasons.  But putting sentiment aside, I think it really is solid.  The only tune I DON'T like is "When Girls Get Together".  The title track I like slightly less than the rest but it's really quite a good LP.

For the record, and not with popular opinion, I like Beach Boys '85 quite a lot too.
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2017, 11:19:22 AM »


Mr Desper, you say the members of the band come in sporadically and recorded separately. Was this also done when recording the harmonies, and, if this was the case, how could they record the harmonies separately?

COMMENT to Cabinessenceking:   In a word, track-stacking.  ~swd
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« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2017, 11:28:51 AM »

I actually dig this album...maybe more than most for sentimental reasons.  But putting sentiment aside, I think it really is solid.  The only tune I DON'T like is "When Girls Get Together".  The title track I like slightly less than the rest but it's really quite a good LP.

For the record, and not with popular opinion, I like Beach Boys '85 quite a lot too.

I wonder whose idea it was to put WGGT on the album? Bizarre inclusion to say the least.
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« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2017, 11:31:42 AM »

<<I wonder whose idea it was to put WGGT on the album? Bizarre inclusion to say the least.>>

I asked Bruce about this after a show in Paducah, KY, in 1982.  He said when he was considering vault tracks to fill out the album he took a listen to it and loved the tympani part.  He said, and I quote, "I told Carl this had to be on the album."  He loved it. 
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« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2017, 12:10:40 PM »

<<I wonder whose idea it was to put WGGT on the album? Bizarre inclusion to say the least.>>

I asked Bruce about this after a show in Paducah, KY, in 1982.  He said when he was considering vault tracks to fill out the album he took a listen to it and loved the tympani part.  He said, and I quote, "I told Carl this had to be on the album."  He loved it.  

Thanks, Steve. That's interesting to hear. I can understand why Bruce would have liked elements of that song, as I do too, yet I think it's an odd duck that doesn't fit in, plus I dislike both the lyrics and lyrical melody. I'd probably like it with a completely different set of lyrics, and a different lyrical melody too.

I have always liked that brief break/transitional part in WGGT at 1:05, which for some reason reminds me of an old TV show production logo or TV station ID music cue of some sort. I wish I could pinpoint what exactly it's reminding me of.
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« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2017, 12:38:08 PM »

I just had a bit of an "epiphany". You know that final "workbook" at the end of Endless Harmony? I wonder if it's based on the "woo woo woo wooooooooo" bit from the Smile Sessions? It sounds quite similar to me.  Grin
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« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2017, 01:46:32 PM »

I just had a bit of an "epiphany". You know that final "workbook" at the end of Endless Harmony? I wonder if it's based on the "woo woo woo wooooooooo" bit from the Smile Sessions? It sounds quite similar to me.  Grin

That's an awesome observation. Totally in agreement on that one.
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« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2017, 02:07:21 PM »

I have no idea how "woo" turned into "workbook". Thank you, autocorrect.  Roll Eyes
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♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #72 on: January 27, 2017, 02:18:37 PM »

I have no idea how "woo" turned into "workbook". Thank you, autocorrect.  Roll Eyes

:Lol I was as confused as Andy Doe hooked up to a polygraph
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« Reply #73 on: January 27, 2017, 02:27:40 PM »

 LOL
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« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2017, 08:39:28 PM »

COMMENT:   As you may recall, I was the chief engineer on this album. Following are some details, from the engineer’s perspective, that may be of interest.

Bruce Johnston was selected by the group to produce this album. Bruce called me and ask if I would engineer this time. It had been many years since Brian’s house studio in BelAir was closed.

I’m sure as a favor and recognition for his contribution to their music, everyone agreed to do the entire album at Rumbo Studios, designed and owned by Daryl Dragon. There were three large studios in the complex, plus a luxurious lounge and food bar decorated in a nautical theme – even portholes to look out. It was a first-class facility.

The Beach Boys booked the entire studio complex for two months. Lock out.

All the studios had English made Neve boards. These were (electrical linear circuit) Class A consoles and highly rated. All tape machines were Swiss made by Studer. The studios were acoustically easy to work in and beautifully finished.

I chose one studio for the standard control room, in which all songs were mixed down. The other studios were used for variation, and from time to time, my second would engineer add-one-instrument session in another studio while others were working in the standard studio. But for the most part, most everything was recorded in the standard, or main control room, because of the recording equipment.  

This was to be the most complex analog recording the boys ever did. Two monster Studer 24 track (2”) tape machines dominated one wall behind the console. The two machines were tied together (master and slave) to provide 46 tracks of analog audio. One, non-audio track (Track 9) on each machine was dedicated to “synchronization” that kept the two machines in absolute running sync. In practice it took about 15 seconds from the time you pushed the start button until the two machines were in sync. The fully analog console had 96 I/O modules (sliders) that were able to remember position and move to it. An excellent sounding console that was automated in the analog realm.

Far-field monitors were JBL. Near-field monitors were Yamaha.

Bruce as producer was there every day – and quite organized with a daily production agenda. Even though they had only two months, this was not to become much of a group effort, as a group. Rather, each day one Beach Boy would visit and do some recording that Bruce had conceived, or they would work on something together. Most of the time it was Bruce interacting with only one Beach Boy. Carl was there about 70% of the time and Alan 40% and Michael 10%.  Dennis popped in one time, but only listened. If I remember correctly, Brian also visited once along with Marilyn.

Outside musicians were used for many of the sounds on this album. Obviously, lots of stacking was done for vocal sound – good thing we had all those tracks.

My personal feeling about the album is that technology dictated too much of the production value. I call it “the multi-track dichotomy.” That is, the desire to fill every available track. Too much production – some would say, over produced. Having engineered for them in both situations, I know they work better as a team with fewer tracks. But at the time the team seemed fractured due to private life schedules, living in different cities, personal feelings. Of the few days two or more boys were there at the same time, they recorded in separate studios.

So I think this is reflected in the finish product, although Carl manages to give us some wonderful leads.

I have never liked any of the masterings I’ve heard for this album. Some day I’ll re-master it as a study-video, and bring out what is missing for . . .

Good Listening,
 ~Stephen W. Desper



Mr Desper, you say the members of the band come in sporadically and recorded separately. Was this also done when recording the harmonies, and, if this was the case, how could they record the harmonies separately?

I've seen video of them recording the vocals for Goin On many times... As a group.
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