Billboard: "Beach Boys" Considering Invitation to Perform at Trump Inauguration

[KDS]

I know that.  You know that.  Most on this board know that.  

But, most people just have vague knowledge of the fact that The Beach Boys associated with Manson.
 

When people find out that the person associated with Manson held such guilt for that association that it may have been a contributing factor leading to him drinking himself to an early grave, well that gives him brownie points too in the court of public opinion. It's friggin' tragic and something that gets him considerable empathy. There is no contest whatsoever why there is a widespread lack of empathy for Mike and Trump. If Mike had drank himself to death out of guilt for shunning Shawn, then maybe people might start to have a different idea about him.

But Mike and Trump have said "mean things."  ***Shudder***

[HeyJude]

The Manson thing is also not comparable to this inauguration story.

There's only a certain level of knowledge among the general public of the Manson-BB connection at all, and those who do know about it aren't running around thinking the Beach Boys either collectively or individually were knowingly palling around with someone they knew was a murderer.

If some story went viral that the Beach Boys as a group participated in the Manson murders, and/or collectively palled around with him after finding out he was involved in numerous murders, I'm quite sure you would see a huge dip in sales, boycotts, and a huge PR problem.

All of this business about the other messed up s**t the actual Beach Boys did over the years is irrelevant to this story, and doesn't reflect well on your argument if you're trying to suggest it's okay for Mike to play for a guy who made fun of disabled people and joked about molesting women because Dennis (and Mike, and other BBs) did morally questionable things themselves.

"What Trump did is not as bad as child molestation and child pornography" is also not exactly a bumper sticker slogan either.

Again, this is *objective PR* stuff, and *that's* where the issues with this gig are all coming from. If Mike attended himself privately, I don't think anyone would care. Hell, it would make total sense for him to be buds with Trump.

The issues here have to do with PR, and how a flawed licensing situation with the BB trademark (for which all members who voted the license to Mike hold some level of responsibility) could negatively impact a variety of aspects of the BBs brand and legacy.

[GhostyTMRS]

If The Beach Boys (including Brian and Al) can survive playing to an all-white audience at Sun City in 1981 and incurring the wrath of the entire rock community but then have their (and Brian's) cred among the music intelligentsia go up tenfold in the next decade (younger people discovering "Pet Sounds", "SMiLE" etc), I think the music Brian wrote can easily withstand having Mike and Bruce play the inauguration gala (if that indeed even happens). Never disregard the power of those songs. I can't think of anything less meaningful than comments from yokels on the internet.

[KDS]

If The Beach Boys (including Brian and Al) can survive playing to an all-white audience at Sun City in 1981 and incurring the wrath of the entire rock community but then have their (and Brian's) cred among the music intelligentsia go up tenfold in the next decade (younger people discovering "Pet Sounds", "SMiLE" etc), I think the music Brian wrote can easily withstand having Mike and Bruce play the inauguration gala (if that indeed even happens). Never disregard the power of those songs. I can't think of anything less meaningful than comments from yokels on the internet.

Agreed. 

[HeyJude]

Perhaps to make it even more clear how this is a PR issue, I would also say the following things would be *BAD PR DECISIONS* on the part of the Beach Boys' corporation:

1. Release a Brother-sanctioned book titled "Morally Questionable Things The Beach Boys Have Done Over the Years - A Fond Look Back."

2. "The Beach Boys - Live at Sun City 1981" Deluxe CD Set

3. Titling a release of the 1993 Paramount Show "Mike Love of the Beach Boys Rails Against Tax Hikes for the Rich"

4. Naming Ronald Reagan an honorary Beach Boy and putting his face on every Beach Boys licensed product

5. Refusing to ship any Beach Boys CDs to Mexico until they "pay for the wall"

[SMiLE Brian]

Jude!

[HeyJude]

If The Beach Boys (including Brian and Al) can survive playing to an all-white audience at Sun City in 1981 and incurring the wrath of the entire rock community but then have their (and Brian's) cred among the music intelligentsia go up tenfold in the next decade (younger people discovering "Pet Sounds", "SMiLE" etc), I think the music Brian wrote can easily withstand having Mike and Bruce play the inauguration gala (if that indeed even happens). Never disregard the power of those songs. I can't think of anything less meaningful than comments from yokels on the internet.

The problem is, as noted in the Rusten/Stebbins book, the BBs playing Sun City *wasn't a big story* because nobody cared about the Beach Boys at that moment in time. They were in a pretty huge rut at that point.

If they had had a "Kokomo"-level profile in 1981 and played Sun City, their career wouldn't have been over, but it would have been a WAY BIGGER story and would probably still be remembered as well today as Mike's R&R HOF speech, which while not ending his career, is a pretty big part of why people think he's an a-hole to this day.

Also, I'd argue if the Sun City situation existed today, for better or worse "social media" would probably bring up a story about a washed up band solely in order to boycott and comdemn them.

[CenturyDeprived]

I know that.  You know that.  Most on this board know that.  

But, most people just have vague knowledge of the fact that The Beach Boys associated with Manson.
 

When people find out that the person associated with Manson held such guilt for that association that it may have been a contributing factor leading to him drinking himself to an early grave, well that gives him brownie points too in the court of public opinion. It's friggin' tragic and something that gets him considerable empathy. There is no contest whatsoever why there is a widespread lack of empathy for Mike and Trump. If Mike had drank himself to death out of guilt for shunning Shawn, then maybe people might start to have a different idea about him.

But Mike and Trump have said "mean things."  ***Shudder***

It's because you mockingly use the term "mean things" that shows you likely aren't a person of color, LGBT, or from a disenfranchised race/ethnicity, etc who has been put down by a person who is about the inherit the highest office in the land. It's not a joke. Walk a mile in their shoes and then we'll see how much you will sarcastically mock those "mean things".

If you read that paragraph and roll your eyes, you might have an empathy problem. I say that not condescendingly, but seriously.

Perhaps even worse than those "mean things" are his refusal to own them/apologize for them, like pretending the CAUGHT ON VIDEO mocking of a disabled person didn't even friggin' happen. Failing to apologize is a very Mike thing, so again it's something that makes them like peas in a pod.

Mike and Trump's least favorite Brian Wilson song? Walking Down the Empath of Life

[CenturyDeprived]

If The Beach Boys (including Brian and Al) can survive playing to an all-white audience at Sun City in 1981 and incurring the wrath of the entire rock community but then have their (and Brian's) cred among the music intelligentsia go up tenfold in the next decade (younger people discovering "Pet Sounds", "SMiLE" etc), I think the music Brian wrote can easily withstand having Mike and Bruce play the inauguration gala (if that indeed even happens). Never disregard the power of those songs. I can't think of anything less meaningful than comments from yokels on the internet.

The problem is, as noted in the Rusten/Stebbins book, the BBs playing Sun City *wasn't a big story* because nobody cared about the Beach Boys at that moment in time. They were in a pretty huge rut at that point.

If they had had a "Kokomo"-level profile in 1981 and played Sun City, their career wouldn't have been over, but it would have been a WAY BIGGER story and would probably still be remembered as well today as Mike's R&R HOF speech, which while not ending his career, is a pretty big part of why people think he's an a-hole to this day.

Also, I'd argue if the Sun City situation existed today, for better or worse "social media" would probably bring up a story about a washed up band solely in order to boycott and comdemn them.

Exactly.

There's a line in the sand about pre-internet, and now.

Plus, there's another line in the sand with regards to things that happened during the existence of the first decade + of the internet getting popular, and now, with social media being a really, really big thing. With the power to have actions haunt celebrities for years to come. Just look at Casey Affleck. The backlash he's facing now will probably cost him an Oscar, but a couple decades ago, it would have just been quickly forgotten.

[18thofMay]

The flipside of this is that you also have someone like Gary Glitter:

http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/legal-and-management/6273999/why-convicted-child-sex-offender-gary-glitters-hey

Mike didn't do what Gary did, but Mike is supporting someone who arguably did (or bragged about doing) things that many people consider to be in the ballpark of disgusting as Glitter. Not involving kids, but assault is assault. It's not a good connection to have.

Comparing an off color comment made in (seemingly) private to child molestation is the kind of hysteria I'm referring to.

Just felt this needed to be quoted again. I'm tired of seeing "But Trump brags about sexually assaulting women!!!" comments.



Also, and I approach this subject with a certain degree of caution, as someone made many people go nuts by posting a similar comment in the thread in which Steve Desper had simply made an interesting observation about the similarities between Trump's and the Beach Boys's shows: consider Dennis Wilson.

A man who hung out with Charles Manson, repeatedly made racist comments (see the Gaines book), once snuck into a morgue to push in the nose of a corpse (see Mike's book), had a baby with his cousin's alleged daughter, used and abused drugs, had sex with a prostitute so he could record it on tape, and the list goes on.

And yet I see nothing but praise for his work, especially on this very messageboard.

To state the fucking obvious.......

DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO BE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Dennis was in a rock and roll band..............

[GhostyTMRS]

If The Beach Boys (including Brian and Al) can survive playing to an all-white audience at Sun City in 1981 and incurring the wrath of the entire rock community but then have their (and Brian's) cred among the music intelligentsia go up tenfold in the next decade (younger people discovering "Pet Sounds", "SMiLE" etc), I think the music Brian wrote can easily withstand having Mike and Bruce play the inauguration gala (if that indeed even happens). Never disregard the power of those songs. I can't think of anything less meaningful than comments from yokels on the internet.

The problem is, as noted in the Rusten/Stebbins book, the BBs playing Sun City *wasn't a big story* because nobody cared about the Beach Boys at that moment in time. They were in a pretty huge rut at that point.

If they had had a "Kokomo"-level profile in 1981 and played Sun City, their career wouldn't have been over, but it would have been a WAY BIGGER story and would probably still be remembered as well today as Mike's R&R HOF speech, which while not ending his career, is a pretty big part of why people think he's an a-hole to this day.

Also, I'd argue if the Sun City situation existed today, for better or worse "social media" would probably bring up a story about a washed up band solely in order to boycott and comdemn them.

Exactly.

There's a line in the sand about pre-internet, and now.

Plus, there's another line in the sand with regards to things that happened during the existence of the first decade + of the internet getting popular, and now, with social media being a really, really big thing.

As "big" as social media is, it's also flypaper for idiots. Brian's music will survive it all, dare I say it, even into the post internet age.  

[CenturyDeprived]

If The Beach Boys (including Brian and Al) can survive playing to an all-white audience at Sun City in 1981 and incurring the wrath of the entire rock community but then have their (and Brian's) cred among the music intelligentsia go up tenfold in the next decade (younger people discovering "Pet Sounds", "SMiLE" etc), I think the music Brian wrote can easily withstand having Mike and Bruce play the inauguration gala (if that indeed even happens). Never disregard the power of those songs. I can't think of anything less meaningful than comments from yokels on the internet.

The problem is, as noted in the Rusten/Stebbins book, the BBs playing Sun City *wasn't a big story* because nobody cared about the Beach Boys at that moment in time. They were in a pretty huge rut at that point.

If they had had a "Kokomo"-level profile in 1981 and played Sun City, their career wouldn't have been over, but it would have been a WAY BIGGER story and would probably still be remembered as well today as Mike's R&R HOF speech, which while not ending his career, is a pretty big part of why people think he's an a-hole to this day.

Also, I'd argue if the Sun City situation existed today, for better or worse "social media" would probably bring up a story about a washed up band solely in order to boycott and comdemn them.

Exactly.

There's a line in the sand about pre-internet, and now.

Plus, there's another line in the sand with regards to things that happened during the existence of the first decade + of the internet getting popular, and now, with social media being a really, really big thing.

As "big" as social media is, it's also flypaper for idiots. Brian's music will survive it all, dare I say it, even into the post internet age.  

Nobody said the music won't survive it. But there will likely be a price for the brand to pay in one way or another.

[Pretty Funky]

Watersportgate now in the news. Mike must add 'Don't Go Near The Water' to any set list Jan 20.

[CenturyDeprived]

Watersportgate now in the news. Mike must add 'Don't Go Near The Water' to any set list Jan 20.

Plus Pitter Patter and Frosty the Yellow Snowman

[GhostyTMRS]

If The Beach Boys (including Brian and Al) can survive playing to an all-white audience at Sun City in 1981 and incurring the wrath of the entire rock community but then have their (and Brian's) cred among the music intelligentsia go up tenfold in the next decade (younger people discovering "Pet Sounds", "SMiLE" etc), I think the music Brian wrote can easily withstand having Mike and Bruce play the inauguration gala (if that indeed even happens). Never disregard the power of those songs. I can't think of anything less meaningful than comments from yokels on the internet.

The problem is, as noted in the Rusten/Stebbins book, the BBs playing Sun City *wasn't a big story* because nobody cared about the Beach Boys at that moment in time. They were in a pretty huge rut at that point.

If they had had a "Kokomo"-level profile in 1981 and played Sun City, their career wouldn't have been over, but it would have been a WAY BIGGER story and would probably still be remembered as well today as Mike's R&R HOF speech, which while not ending his career, is a pretty big part of why people think he's an a-hole to this day.

Also, I'd argue if the Sun City situation existed today, for better or worse "social media" would probably bring up a story about a washed up band solely in order to boycott and comdemn them.

Exactly.

There's a line in the sand about pre-internet, and now.

Plus, there's another line in the sand with regards to things that happened during the existence of the first decade + of the internet getting popular, and now, with social media being a really, really big thing.

As "big" as social media is, it's also flypaper for idiots. Brian's music will survive it all, dare I say it, even into the post internet age.  

Nobody said the music won't survive it. But there will likely be a price for the brand to pay in one way or another.

Well, considering there's been no word about whether Mike and Bruce will even perform or not, it's impossible to calculate what, if any, price there will be in the long run. I get the idea of superfans like us being so protective of the group that they don't want ANY controversies tarnishing the brand, but this is The Beach Boys we're talking about here. How many times have these guys done something to hurt themselves (like Mike's noxious Hall of Fame speech, for example) and yet the records continue to sell, be reappraised, lauded and the fan base grows and grows? The music is teflon, and that's all that matters.

[SMiLE Brian]

Watersportgate now in the news. Mike must add 'Don't Go Near The Water' to any set list Jan 20.

Plus Pitter Patter and Frosty the Yellow Snowman

plus feel flows...

[HeyJude]

Well, considering there's been no word about whether Mike and Bruce will even perform or not, it's impossible to calculate what, if any, price there will be in the long run. I get the idea of superfans like us being so protective of the group that they don't want ANY controversies tarnishing the brand, but this is The Beach Boys we're talking about here. How many times have these guys done something to hurt themselves (like Mike's noxious Hall of Fame speech, for example) and yet the records continue to sell, be reappraised, lauded and the fan base grows and grows? The music is teflon, and that's all that matters.

It's true they've screwed up actively at numerous points. But this inauguration thing is a no-brainer like no other. Even Mike's R&R HOF speech had some germ of a real point; chiding the industry wasn't in principle a bad idea. Mike was just not the guy with the credibility to do it, and did a poor job of it.

Also, this case is different because the "band" and the "touring band" are no the same entity. Again, this is partly the fault of any shareholders who voted to give Mike the license (e.g. probably not Al). It's a little bit like a McDonalds franchise deciding to launch a "F**k You If You Don't Eat at McDonalds" or "I'll Grab Your P***y And You'll Let Me Do it at McDonalds" ad campaign and being able to do it because McDonalds just wants a cut of what they bring in and don't care about anything else.

The source of the outrage among *hardcore fans* has more to do with the tarnishing of the brand, the original band, and blowback towards members that have no part of Mike's decision. Again, if Brian voted to give Mike free reign, then that's one of the consequences. But it doesn't keep it from being a bummer.

I don't think anyone has suggested that the Beach Boys' legacy will be obliterated and nobody will buy the music anymore. But this is bigger than a one-day controversy (e.g. Bruce's 2012 Obama comment), and I'd say if Mike goes ahead with the show, it will immediately jump into the top echelon of career f**k ups right alongside the R&R HOF, the C50 aftermath, and so on.

Nobody but hardcore fans will know or remember that the Beach Boys should have released "A Time to Live in Dreams" or "Live Again" and maybe they'd have had a big hit or something. What ends up, for better or worse, being remembered is stuff like the R&R HOF and doing this gig. It doesn't mean the "real" fans won't know the real score, and know that Mike associating with an abhorrent, hateful person doesn't negate their music.

But it's all just easily avoidable BS, and I'm still hopeful Mike will decide or has already decided to avoid the gig.

At this point, even if Mike does the gig, it will in retrospect have looked awfully embarrassing and questionable that he wouldn't say even two weeks or more ahead of time that he was planning to do the gig.

[CenturyDeprived]

Watersportgate now in the news. Mike must add 'Don't Go Near The Water' to any set list Jan 20.

Plus Pitter Patter and Frosty the Yellow Snowman

plus feel flows...

Considering that spooge was doubtlessly also involved in the peepeegate scandal, that would fit right in.

[GhostyTMRS]

At this point, even if Mike does the gig, it will in retrospect have looked awfully embarrassing and questionable that he wouldn't say even two weeks or more ahead of time that he was planning to do the gig.

If I had to guess there's probably some clause in the contract that states something along the lines about "activities that might tarnish the band's name" and, since there really isn't a Beach Boys anymore, you've got lawyers for shareholders who don't really require, want or need facetime with each other going through the legalese to see if it's possible or beneficial to the brand in any way. I would imagine given the current state of affairs (and the fact that they were hit with the request over the holidays) that it will take some time for all parties to hammer out an agreement. This could also be a stalling tactic allowing the Beach Boys as a brand to not have to respond in a positive or negative way and therefore just skate through it all without having ticked off both Trump supporters and Trump detractors.

[mtaber]

If Clinton had won, would there be similar outrage over the band playing at her inauguration?

[guitarfool2002]

If I had to guess there's probably some clause in the contract that states something along the lines about "activities that might tarnish the band's name" and, since there really isn't a Beach Boys anymore[/size], you've got lawyers for shareholders who don't really require, want or need facetime with each other going through the legalese to see if it's possible or beneficial to the brand in any way. I would imagine given the current state of affairs (and the fact that they were hit with the request over the holidays) that it will take some time for all parties to hammer out an agreement. This could also be a stalling tactic allowing the Beach Boys as a brand to not have to respond in a positive or negative way and therefore just skate through it all without having ticked off both Trump supporters and Trump detractors.

[GhostyTMRS]

If I had to guess there's probably some clause in the contract that states something along the lines about "activities that might tarnish the band's name" and, since there really isn't a Beach Boys anymore[/size], you've got lawyers for shareholders who don't really require, want or need facetime with each other going through the legalese to see if it's possible or beneficial to the brand in any way. I would imagine given the current state of affairs (and the fact that they were hit with the request over the holidays) that it will take some time for all parties to hammer out an agreement. This could also be a stalling tactic allowing the Beach Boys as a brand to not have to respond in a positive or negative way and therefore just skate through it all without having ticked off both Trump supporters and Trump detractors.

lol This is a shock to George?

[guitarfool2002]

George is shocked. He might realize that such a statement in certain circles would be considered bashing or hate speech against Mike, of the sort that some thought should be a bannable offense. There are and were people posting around these boards who equated not being excited about Mike and Bruce's UK setlists with not being a real Beach Boys fan, the notion that there really isn't a Beach Boys anymore would trigger WW3.

[SMiLE Brian]

"Right" down Filleplage and Doe's alley...

[guitarfool2002]

It gets right down to the core points in some ways, doesn't it? For some there is no separation, none at all, between 1964 and 2017. When that mindset works for some reason in promotions and marketing it's a plus. When there is a backlash...not quite. Again cue the old adage "you can't have it both ways".