Bruce did the vocal arrangement for the ending of "Surf's Up"?

[guitarfool2002]

And I think the Child thing wasn't Brian's idea.

Even though Stephen Desper - who set up Brian's mic and headphones after he came into the studio telling Desper and Carl he had the "missing" part of that coda, the lyrics and melody, then sang it - tells the story of Brian adding that part? This is the same Stephen Desper who decades later still had the sheet of paper from that session with Brian's handwritten lyrics for that section which he read from when he recorded the part, mind you.

So it wasn't Brian's idea even though the guy who literally pressed "record" on the tape machine as Brian showed up in the studio and sang the part said it was Brian?

Am I missing something?

Oh no, I meant the Child Is Father of the Man part. I'd imagine the 'Children's Song' was definitely original. But take it with a grain of salt. This is just how I feel about it.

And come on man, if you think I'm wrong, Say it! Don't be condescending, that wastes our time

Try using your ears.

What wastes time is fan-mixers who claim to know what Brian was going to do with Smile, or not do, and post said speculations and wild theories in spite of what is actually known.

[leetwall97]

What wastes time is fan-mixers who claim to know what Brian was going to do with Smile, or not do, and post said speculations and wild theories in spite of what is actually known.

I think it wastes your time the most. I'd imagine most people don't care. Plus you gotta remember this is exactly what Brian and Darian had to do in 2004: figure out what Brian was trying to do back in '66 via speculation, theorization and of course (the one thing we don't have); memories.

Here's what I don't understand: Did Brian bring forth the Children's song and the Child Is Father of the Man vocals? Or was it just one of those.

Gee, it's a shame that Stephen Desper isn't here

You said it! Someone should go catch up with him

[c-man]

I'm surprised no one remembers this from David Leaf's booK (pgs. 143-144):

"The vocal arrangements on Surf's Up weren't as full as those on Sunflower either, and that is mostly because Brian wasn't working on the album. Bruce recalls, 'It was strange to be doing vocal arrangements to make it sound like the Beach Boys when we were the Beach Boys. That's a little weird to me.'

"The resurrection of the song 'Surf's Up' is a confusing tale. Part of the album track was from a recording Brian had made for the 1967 Leonard Bernstein special; other segments were recorded in 1971 to fit in with the old track. Bruce: 'I remember thinking, "Well, if I voice this chord into Brian's part from the end of Carl's part, it'll sound okay and no one will know about it." We ended up doing vocals to sort of emulate ourselves without Brian Wilson, which was kind of silly.'"

[JK]

I'm surprised no one remembers this from David Leaf's booK (pgs. 143-144):

"The vocal arrangements on Surf's Up weren't as full as those on Sunflower either, and that is mostly because Brian wasn't working on the album. Bruce recalls, 'It was strange to be doing vocal arrangements to make it sound like the Beach Boys when we were the Beach Boys. That's a little weird to me.'

"The resurrection of the song 'Surf's Up' is a confusing tale. Part of the album track was from a recording Brian had made for the 1967 Leonard Bernstein special; other segments were recorded in 1971 to fit in with the old track. Bruce: 'I remember thinking, "Well, if I voice this chord into Brian's part from the end of Carl's part, it'll sound okay and no one will know about it." We ended up doing vocals to sort of emulate ourselves without Brian Wilson, which was kind of silly.'"

Thanks, c-man. Not all of us have that book (unfortunately!).

[Jukka]

Well, if I voice this chord into Brian's part from the end of Carl's part, it'll sound okay and no one will know about it.

What part exactly is Bruce referring to here?

[maggie]

I'm surprised no one remembers this from David Leaf's booK (pgs. 143-144):

"The resurrection of the song 'Surf's Up' is a confusing tale. Part of the album track was from a recording Brian had made for the 1967 Leonard Bernstein special; other segments were recorded in 1971 to fit in with the old track. Bruce: 'I remember thinking, "Well, if I voice this chord into Brian's part from the end of Carl's part, it'll sound okay and no one will know about it." We ended up doing vocals to sort of emulate ourselves without Brian Wilson, which was kind of silly.'"

It sounds like he is referring to the "ooh" part that bridges "Part 1" and Brian's piano demo. Guess we can credit that piece to Bruce! And it would seem like Bruce (not usually the type to take undue credit?) did more arranging on the Surf's Up album than I thought.

[Don Malcolm]

I'm surprised no one remembers this from David Leaf's booK (pgs. 143-144):

"The vocal arrangements on Surf's Up weren't as full as those on Sunflower either, and that is mostly because Brian wasn't working on the album. Bruce recalls, 'It was strange to be doing vocal arrangements to make it sound like the Beach Boys when we were the Beach Boys. That's a little weird to me.'

"The resurrection of the song 'Surf's Up' is a confusing tale. Part of the album track was from a recording Brian had made for the 1967 Leonard Bernstein special; other segments were recorded in 1971 to fit in with the old track. Bruce: 'I remember thinking, "Well, if I voice this chord into Brian's part from the end of Carl's part, it'll sound okay and no one will know about it." We ended up doing vocals to sort of emulate ourselves without Brian Wilson, which was kind of silly.'"

David didn't have access to Steve Desper or Carl at the time he wrote the first edition of his book, so the details of how "Surf's Up" was resurrected did not surface until later. Bruce's comment actually references two parallel situations--first, the specific need to create a vocal arrangement for the tag of "Surf's Up" that had sufficient continuity to sound organic and not--for lack of a better term--"retrofitted"; second, the general tendency for the group to record backing vocals without Brian in the mix, an occurrence that became more frequent during Brian's reclusive years.

And Desper did make it clear in a thread here awhile back that Bruce was often the go-to guy for these types of vocal arrangements, particularly when Brian was absent.

But from Bruce's description above, I have to wonder whether he was actually referring to the little vocal bridge between the "Brother John" vocal into the "Dove-nested towers" section...because that is where we really go from Carl to Brian in the '71 version of the song.

[guitarfool2002]

What wastes time is fan-mixers who claim to know what Brian was going to do with Smile, or not do, and post said speculations and wild theories in spite of what is actually known.

I think it wastes your time the most. I'd imagine most people don't care. Plus you gotta remember this is exactly what Brian and Darian had to do in 2004: figure out what Brian was trying to do back in '66 via speculation, theorization and of course (the one thing we don't have); memories.

Here's what I don't understand: Did Brian bring forth the Children's song and the Child Is Father of the Man vocals? Or was it just one of those.

Gee, it's a shame that Stephen Desper isn't here

You said it! Someone should go catch up with him

"We" also don't have Brian Wilson sitting in a room listening and talking about the music, "we" don't have Darian acting as the musical scribe holding the available segments using editing technology Brian didn't have in 1966 to shift sections around on the fly and audition how they would sound on the spot, and "we" don't have the ability to call Van Dyke Parks to ask about a 40 year old lyric.

The talk about Smile for the past several years seems to go pretty much the same direction. One one side, people who state opinions which are based on faulty information or way out personal theories versus the real facts that can be established, and on the other people who may be more tuned into those facts than others. The more people who spout wild theories to support their own sequences on fan mixes versus getting the factual info down first, and the more they blur the lines between trying to justify their own fan mixes versus learning and discussing the actual history, you're right - The less people will give a sh*t what they have to say and will tune out. That I agree with.

Get the history down first, get the facts and get them on your own versus "fact checkers" and other ersatz historians and collectors. It's out there if you look for it, the real deal.