-->
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 22, 2018, 09:55:30 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
News: Endless Summer Quarterly
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  The Smiley Smile Message Board
|-+  Non Smiley Smile Stuff
| |-+  The Sandbox
| | |-+  Politics: 2016 Lame Duck and 2017 New Administration
Pages: 1 ... 24 25 26 27 28 [29] 30 31 32   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Politics: 2016 Lame Duck and 2017 New Administration  (Read 64632 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2784


View Profile
« Reply #700 on: August 18, 2017, 05:31:08 AM »

Re: healthcare - interesting thought that doing a bad and completely ineffectual job quickly is praiseworthy.

Ha - was that directed towards me? I didn't say it was praiseworthy. I said it was better that Trump couldn't repeal Obamacare than it was for him to repeal it and replace it with a more draconian system, as those were the two options at that point.
Logged
Emily
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2017


View Profile
« Reply #701 on: August 18, 2017, 05:40:41 AM »

No. It was in response to reply #697, which was in response to you.
Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2784


View Profile
« Reply #702 on: August 18, 2017, 05:41:42 AM »

No. It was in response to reply #697, which was in response to you.

Gotcha!
Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2784


View Profile
« Reply #703 on: August 18, 2017, 06:00:02 AM »

In other news, here's what I've been saying for 20 years, as a general pattern and for 1+ in the particular instance:

https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/33759251/2017-08_electionReport.pdf?sequence=3

I wish I could read that but my new computer seems to not open PDF links.
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7247


View Profile
« Reply #704 on: August 18, 2017, 07:17:11 AM »

Re: healthcare - interesting thought that doing a bad and completely ineffectual job quickly is praiseworthy.
In other news, here's what I've been saying for 20 years, as a general pattern and for 1+ in the particular instance:

https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/33759251/2017-08_electionReport.pdf?sequence=3

PS. Some people still support Trump. Wtf?

Thanks, Emily. Very interesting.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
B.E.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 555


View Profile
« Reply #705 on: August 18, 2017, 09:06:03 AM »


Those high-resolution network maps are really cool! I've always been somewhat ignorant as to the political reputations of the various media sources, so this is great! Thanks.

Edit: ^That link is broken...
https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/33759251/2017-08_electionReport_0.pdf?sequence=9
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 09:20:40 AM by B.E. » Logged
ForHerCryingSoul
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 277



View Profile WWW
« Reply #706 on: August 18, 2017, 10:20:36 AM »

So Steve Bannon has resigned as chief strategist today.  Thoughts?
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7247


View Profile
« Reply #707 on: August 18, 2017, 10:44:35 AM »

Both hugely surprised and not remotely surprised, if that makes any sense.

I assumed Bannon wouldn't be in the administration for very long, in that he's pretty openly against the concept of administrations as they're currently understood to exist and function (i.e., the large and wide-ranging bureaucracies). He said as much himself all along. And of course very few people in administrations last more than a term ... and even one term. Then on top of that, there have been the rumors of him being on the outs on and off for months.

On the other hand, Trump's most recent rhetoric has been downright Bannonesque. So while they were reportedly feuding, he sure sounded like Bannon and not like the so-called moderating members of the administration.

It'll be interesting to see how Breitbart treats the administration going forward and how open Bannon is about his time there.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2784


View Profile
« Reply #708 on: August 18, 2017, 10:51:52 AM »

Glad he's gone, of course, but it's important to remember that moves like these can work to placate an activist culture by suggesting that things will be better once we get rid of the bad eggs. There is a huge systemic issue here that existed before Trump and will continue after him if the focus is not on the system as whole but on its individual elements.
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7247


View Profile
« Reply #709 on: August 18, 2017, 10:56:41 AM »

A challenge with this administration is that in many eyes (such as mine), the bad eggs are diverse and numerous. Bannon was one, as are his rivals within the administration. So if Kushner wins the spat, am I supposed to be happy? The enemy of my enemy may well still be my enemy.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2784


View Profile
« Reply #710 on: August 18, 2017, 11:00:29 AM »

A challenge with this administration is that in many eyes (such as mine), the bad eggs are diverse and numerous. Bannon was one, as are his rivals within the administration. So if Kushner wins the spat, am I supposed to be happy? The enemy of my enemy may well still be my enemy.

Yes, there are an abundance of bad eggs here.

My view though is that even if you could take all the bad eggs out, you'd still end up with a pretty lousy system. Nevertheless I am still in favour of taking out the really terrible eggs.

All this talk is making me not hungry.
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7247


View Profile
« Reply #711 on: August 18, 2017, 11:02:26 AM »

What, you don't like rotten eggs?
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2784


View Profile
« Reply #712 on: August 18, 2017, 11:06:55 AM »

What, you don't like rotten eggs?

 LOL

I've just had my fill.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 11:07:43 AM by Chocolate Shake Man » Logged
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7983



View Profile
« Reply #713 on: August 18, 2017, 11:12:59 AM »

Faburge eggs anybody? Wink
Logged

And production aside, Id so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
Emily
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2017


View Profile
« Reply #714 on: August 18, 2017, 07:12:38 PM »

Aww. The whole gang's together again! Hi guys!
Logged
Emily
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2017


View Profile
« Reply #715 on: August 18, 2017, 07:27:09 PM »

I'm curious about something, CSM. II agree with you about much with policy, particularly in foreign policy and most economics. But I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you refer to 'the system'. Do you refer to the actual structure of government? Or to the structures that have built up around and in  the government (lobbying, corporate patronage, secret 'intelligence' work, the 'MSM', etc)? Or the culture? Legal system or cultural system? All of the above?
Logged
NOLA BB Fan
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 665


"When you come to a fork in the road, take it."


View Profile
« Reply #716 on: August 19, 2017, 08:41:20 PM »

Did any of you read Trump's tweet from this afternoon?

"Our country has been divided for decades. Sometimes you need protest in order to heel, & we will heel, & be stronger than ever before!"

Are we a bunch of dogs?   Thud
Logged

"No White Flags." - Team Gleason

"(Brian) got into this really touching music with songs like 'In My Room', and 'Good Vibrations' was amazing. The melodies are so beautiful, almost perfect. I began to realize he was one of the most gifted writers of our generation." - Paul Simon
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2784


View Profile
« Reply #717 on: August 20, 2017, 06:54:15 AM »

I'm curious about something, CSM. II agree with you about much with policy, particularly in foreign policy and most economics. But I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you refer to 'the system'. Do you refer to the actual structure of government? Or to the structures that have built up around and in  the government (lobbying, corporate patronage, secret 'intelligence' work, the 'MSM', etc)? Or the culture? Legal system or cultural system? All of the above?

I remember that a conversation I had with a friend around 2003 or 2004 made me aware of the problems surrounding the bad apple/rotten egg belief. It all surrounded the 9/11 conspiracy theory which I and my fellow activist friends had a great deal of contempt for at the time. And my friend noted that at the root of so much of those conspiracy theories (the ones that didn't go completely into the world of fantasy, like the Illuminati conspiracy) was the idea that as long as you got rid of the Bush elements that everything would be fine.  The conspiracy theory then was not really a systemic critique. This is why Chomsky somewhat famously said about the conspiracy (much to the anger of many conspiracy theorists) that "even if it is true, who cares?" Now for someone who subscribes to the rotten egg belief, this question is just nonsensical but for those who believe the most significant problems are systematic, it makes perfect sense.

We can ask what were the consequences of Nixon being impeached, for example. What really changed? Ultimately, he was replaced by Ford who supported the same kind of atrocities that Nixon was notorious for carrying out, not the least of which was Indonesia's attack on East Timor. When Ford was voted out in favour of the Democratic dove candidate Jimmy Carter, Carter continued US support of Indonesia as it escalated the violence in the area. So, I suppose by system, I simply mean the power structure at work in the United States - or the dominant ideology - which by and large stays the same way no matter who the eggs are that are in charge. There are differences in degrees of rotten-ness to be sure but the main cause of the rot remains the same.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 07:33:32 AM by Chocolate Shake Man » Logged
Emily
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2017


View Profile
« Reply #718 on: August 20, 2017, 01:54:56 PM »

I guess here's where I'm going: I support voting or at least some form of popular decision-making, whether by representation of some other form of popular input. So to me, the only means of change are: change gov't structure to another one with popular involvement; change who the population is (by, say, dissolving the US into separate countries); or by changing the minds of voters. Only the first, to me, would represent changing 'the system'.
So, when you say 'the system' do you mean the form of government or something else?

Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2784


View Profile
« Reply #719 on: August 21, 2017, 04:49:32 AM »

I guess here's where I'm going: I support voting or at least some form of popular decision-making, whether by representation of some other form of popular input. So to me, the only means of change are: change gov't structure to another one with popular involvement; change who the population is (by, say, dissolving the US into separate countries); or by changing the minds of voters. Only the first, to me, would represent changing 'the system'.
So, when you say 'the system' do you mean the form of government or something else?



Well, I don't necessarily see the government as the system. I suppose I mean the economic system. But, yes, if that changes that inevitably the government as it is structured now would change as well. I would agree that this change has to come from a popular movement. I don't think that a vote is going to do it, but certainly I think your phrasing - "change govt't structure to another one with popular involvement" is an apt way of putting it.
Logged
Emily
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2017


View Profile
« Reply #720 on: August 21, 2017, 08:35:22 PM »

Please don't take this as a challenge, it's legitimate curiosity with no underlying angle:
1. How to get there? Do you suppose people will vote in the current system to move to a different system or do you suppose an extra-constitutional event must occur?
2. i think I have a high-level idea of the economic system you advocate. What might the government look like?
Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2784


View Profile
« Reply #721 on: August 22, 2017, 06:39:26 AM »

Please don't take this as a challenge, it's legitimate curiosity with no underlying angle:
1. How to get there? Do you suppose people will vote in the current system to move to a different system or do you suppose an extra-constitutional event must occur?
2. i think I have a high-level idea of the economic system you advocate. What might the government look like?

Happy to have the discussion.

I think that extra-constitutional actions are vital and necessary - mostly through direct action movements. The most effective of these, I think, would be with a General Strike but in order for that to happen you have to have a strong unionized population, so this would have to have occur in steps.

After this happens, I think that societies would be organized by directly democratic labour councils, with the full inclusion of the community.
Logged
FatherOfTheMan Sr101
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2228


The Producer


View Profile
« Reply #722 on: August 23, 2017, 01:51:57 PM »

Feds are good for wars and taxes. That's all and that is what others like me will fight for and voted for. No extra-constitutional garbage. Let the states do what they were intended to do and leave the fed alone. 
Logged

**   危険な空 - Dangerous Skies  **
https://mikeleroy.bandcamp.com/album/single
**MIKE LEROY MAKES IT SIMPLE**
https://mikeleroy.bandcamp.com/album/makes-it-simple
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2784


View Profile
« Reply #723 on: August 23, 2017, 02:03:13 PM »

Feds are good for wars and taxes. That's all and that is what others like me will fight for and voted for. No extra-constitutional garbage. Let the states do what they were intended to do and leave the fed alone. 

I just want to get a handle on your objective in this thread. It seems to me that you make a brief comment here once every two weeks or so that has some kind of tangential relationship to the topic being discussed. We try and engage with it but the point ends up largely just evaporating because you don't actually respond to the dialogue that you appear to want to start with your interjection. I would be happy to engage in a discussion with you on these topics but I can't muster a response to your points anymore as it appears that you don't particularly care about the responses you get.
Logged
FatherOfTheMan Sr101
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2228


The Producer


View Profile
« Reply #724 on: August 23, 2017, 07:15:45 PM »

I'm just trying to provide a different point of view here. I feel like this is (because it is) an echo chamber of Trump hating big govt love. Not trying to sway anyone, just tired of seeing "do people still like Trump?"
Logged

**   危険な空 - Dangerous Skies  **
https://mikeleroy.bandcamp.com/album/single
**MIKE LEROY MAKES IT SIMPLE**
https://mikeleroy.bandcamp.com/album/makes-it-simple
Pages: 1 ... 24 25 26 27 28 [29] 30 31 32   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.151 seconds with 21 queries.