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Author Topic: Politics: 2016 Lame Duck and 2017 New Administration  (Read 132853 times)
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Emily
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« Reply #200 on: December 09, 2016, 04:57:01 AM »

God complex ("I''m the only one!")
Racial demagoguery and a focus on "bad elements", the threat of the outsider
Attacking the press, specifically saying he'd curtail its freedom
Having an internally controlled press organ that publishes as if it's independent
Excused as not meant to be taken literally
Military running civilian agencies
Picking and choosing individual businesses to reward or shame
Using private citizens as "lessons" to others through rewards or shame
Appointing people to head agencies that those people openly want to dismantle
Nah - no valid fascism comparisons here.

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the captain
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« Reply #201 on: December 09, 2016, 09:14:07 AM »

I wonder if part of the hesitation to make the connections stem from the old "banality of evil" idea: Trump doesn't seem like some evil genius, but just an egotistical if bumbling self-promoter. Could someone without any particular (much less particularly evil) ideology lead an administration into something with such dark overtones?

History would say yes, I think. Not to say that particularly horrific outcomes are inevitable, or even likely. But possible? Sure. The good news is that the USA is far, far more stable than the countries overtaken by fascists.
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SinisterSmile
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« Reply #202 on: December 09, 2016, 09:45:57 AM »

Ah, finally back in the saddle after some unexpected health issues. I'll try and get up to speed on what I've missed.

I did catch that Trump won Time's Person Of The Year. I think their might be some media bias, when I won in 2006 everyone was congratulatory, but he wins and people are jumping outta their skin to make a Hitler comparison?  Huh Something is up!
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the captain
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« Reply #203 on: December 09, 2016, 09:49:53 AM »

Glad you're back and hopefully healthy.

I'm never up for anyone to jump out of their skins. Calm evaluations and assessments, those are my preference.
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SinisterSmile
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« Reply #204 on: December 09, 2016, 09:56:26 AM »

Thanks captain.

There hasn't been much in the news about US politics my way so hopefully as the saying goes, no news is good news.
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the captain
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« Reply #205 on: December 09, 2016, 09:58:46 AM »

There hasn't been much in the news about US politics my way so hopefully as the saying goes, no news is good news.

Unfortunately the media tends to stop covering the mundane-seeming but important things once the horse-races are over. There has been a lot going on, actually, as Trump has been nominating people to his Cabinet. (I am among those very, very unimpressed with most of his choices, many of whom are directly opposed to his purported mission to help the working class and "drain the swamp" of typical Wall Street types ... which is not a surprise, just a disappointment.)

Do you mind me asking where you are, country-wise? I know you've said you're outside the US but don't recall you saying where you are.
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SinisterSmile
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« Reply #206 on: December 09, 2016, 10:05:27 AM »

There hasn't been much in the news about US politics my way so hopefully as the saying goes, no news is good news.

Unfortunately the media tends to stop covering the mundane-seeming but important things once the horse-races are over. There has been a lot going on, actually, as Trump has been nominating people to his Cabinet. (I am among those very, very unimpressed with most of his choices, many of whom are directly opposed to his purported mission to help the working class and "drain the swamp" of typical Wall Street types ... which is not a surprise, just a disappointment.)

Do you mind me asking where you are, country-wise? I know you've said you're outside the US but don't recall you saying where you are.

Over in Australia. Truthfully. there have been some picks that I'm pretty iffy about, but I hope they'll surprise me. What did you think about Gen. James Mattis as a pick? I like the guy.
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the captain
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« Reply #207 on: December 09, 2016, 10:21:01 AM »

I'm not a huge fan, but neither do I think he's the worst nomination so far. I like that he's opposed to torture and opposed to undoing the Iran deal. I like that he appears to be, from what I can tell, a very good military mind. What I don't like is that he was so recently in the military: we have a policy in the U.S. about not naming current or recent military to lead the Dept of Defense, and he'd need a special waiver to do so. On its own, that wouldn't be make-or-break for me, but he's something like the third or fourth high-ranking military person in this cabinet. I don't like the over-militarization of the government. What's the old line? When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail...
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Emily
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« Reply #208 on: December 09, 2016, 12:48:16 PM »

The fascist comparisons have been increasingly apt for a while. Can't imagine what Time has to do with it.
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SinisterSmile
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« Reply #209 on: December 10, 2016, 12:55:41 AM »

For some people it's a case of confirmation bias, but at the heart of it, I was just making a silly joke.
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Emily
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« Reply #210 on: December 10, 2016, 03:58:55 AM »

I doubt it. No one started out thinking Trump was a fascist.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 04:05:52 AM by Emily » Logged
Emily
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« Reply #211 on: December 10, 2016, 04:00:28 AM »

I wonder if part of the hesitation to make the connections stem from the old "banality of evil" idea: Trump doesn't seem like some evil genius, but just an egotistical if bumbling self-promoter. Could someone without any particular (much less particularly evil) ideology lead an administration into something with such dark overtones?

History would say yes, I think. Not to say that particularly horrific outcomes are inevitable, or even likely. But possible? Sure. The good news is that the USA is far, far more stable than the countries overtaken by fascists.
Stalin would be the big one - but Batista and Peron were also opportunists who seem to have devised their ideologies to fit the occasion.  And all three were bumblers.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 04:03:09 AM by Emily » Logged
Emily
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« Reply #212 on: December 10, 2016, 04:01:24 AM »

Derp
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 04:02:39 AM by Emily » Logged
the captain
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« Reply #213 on: December 10, 2016, 04:32:48 AM »

I doubt it. No one started out thinking Trump was a fascist.
True: no one took him remotely seriously, including as a fascist. Idiot, yes. Funny guy, maybe. Obama antagonist, clearly. But nobody said "keep an eye on him, he's showing fascist tendencies" before the campaign began.
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #214 on: December 10, 2016, 05:41:53 AM »

Jesus...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/12/09/exxon-ceo-rex-tillerson-emerges-as-trumps-top-secretary-of-state-candidate/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_tillerson-814am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.4a8c905d94a1
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the captain
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« Reply #215 on: December 10, 2016, 06:44:42 AM »

It's hard to believe who, after three or four such annointed "top choices," is really the favorite (if anyone). Seems like a series of weather balloons to me. Leak a name, gauge reaction. But we've had Giuliani, Romney, Petraeus, and Bolton all called top choices at some point or other, not to mention another half-dozen names or more mentioned.

This would be a rotten choice, but hey, what's new...
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the captain
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« Reply #216 on: December 10, 2016, 06:47:02 AM »

By the way, as many know by now, the CIA reports with confidence that Russia intervened in this election by hacking both parties' emails (the Republicans dispute this) and leaking only harmful Democratic ones to Wikileaks, etc. I understand the report (or possibly officers separately? I got this from an NPR story) also indicates they were involved in Brexit and Ukraine elections. I fully expect them to be involved in the next German one, as they no doubt want Merkel out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/obama-russia-election-hack.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
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the captain
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« Reply #217 on: December 11, 2016, 06:37:10 AM »

Annnnnd Mr. Trump denies Russian hacking. Why? Because he knows better than experts. After all, he receives daily intelligence briefings and can make up his own mind, right? Well...

Quote
I think its ridiculous, Trump said in an interview with Fox News Sunday, his first Sunday show appearance since the election. I think its just another excuse. I dont believe it No, I dont believe it at all.

Trump also denied the importance of receiving the daily intelligence briefing that is traditional for presidents and presidents-elect. He has received the briefings only sporadically since winning the election.

I get it when I need it, he said. Im, like, a smart person. I dont have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/12/11/trump-denies-cia-report-russia-intervened-to-help-him-win-election/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpcia-914am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.e67522e70dc0

That's right, he doesn't think he needs daily, or even regular, intelligence briefings. Nah, the occasional tidbit is no-doubt sufficient when you don't care what's actually happening in the world to begin with... See how easy life is? Doubt Russians hacked political parties to help you win because you'd prefer there be no cloud over your victory. Reject information from people who know better than you. Presto: you have received no information that contradicts your previous, uninformed opinion.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 06:37:36 AM by the captain » Logged

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Emily
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« Reply #218 on: December 11, 2016, 08:39:56 AM »

https://www.google.com/amp/heavy.com/news/2016/12/donald-trump-complain-time-magazine-man-person-of-the-year-rally-baton-rouge-video/amp/?client=safari
These voters aren't motivated by misogyny.
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Emily
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« Reply #219 on: December 11, 2016, 09:29:27 AM »

Annnnnd Mr. Trump denies Russian hacking. Why? Because he knows better than experts. After all, he receives daily intelligence briefings and can make up his own mind, right? Well...

Quote
I think its ridiculous, Trump said in an interview with Fox News Sunday, his first Sunday show appearance since the election. I think its just another excuse. I dont believe it No, I dont believe it at all.

Trump also denied the importance of receiving the daily intelligence briefing that is traditional for presidents and presidents-elect. He has received the briefings only sporadically since winning the election.

I get it when I need it, he said. Im, like, a smart person. I dont have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/12/11/trump-denies-cia-report-russia-intervened-to-help-him-win-election/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpcia-914am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.e67522e70dc0

That's right, he doesn't think he needs daily, or even regular, intelligence briefings. Nah, the occasional tidbit is no-doubt sufficient when you don't care what's actually happening in the world to begin with... See how easy life is? Doubt Russians hacked political parties to help you win because you'd prefer there be no cloud over your victory. Reject information from people who know better than you. Presto: you have received no information that contradicts your previous, uninformed opinion.


But as Trump points out, he's smart, therefore he doesn't need knowledge.
(? Does the latter half of that assertion prove the first half wrong?)
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the captain
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« Reply #220 on: December 13, 2016, 08:29:20 AM »

For f***'s sake, Gov Perry to lead Dept of Oops? Is it just absurdist comedy to keep nominating people fundamentally opposed to the existence or missions of the departments they are supposed to run?
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Emily
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« Reply #221 on: December 13, 2016, 09:25:32 AM »

For f***'s sake, Gov Perry to lead Dept of Oops? Is it just absurdist comedy to keep nominating people fundamentally opposed to the existence or missions of the departments they are supposed to run?
What to conclude when, as you say, appointees are foxes in henhouses, pres-to-be repeatedly casts doubt on llegitimacy of voting, information and facts, the judiciary and executive agencies and shows no inclination of even pretending he's going to eliminate conflicts of interest?
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bachelorofbullets
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« Reply #222 on: December 13, 2016, 01:15:42 PM »

For f***'s sake, Gov Perry to lead Dept of Oops? Is it just absurdist comedy to keep nominating people fundamentally opposed to the existence or missions of the departments they are supposed to run?

Yeah.  Reagan did the same thing...and too bad trickle-down does not work.  History may repeat itself again.
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Emily
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« Reply #223 on: December 13, 2016, 03:20:31 PM »

No mention of Mexico, either regarding NAFTA or immigrants, but otherwise a good parsing of Trump's potential intentions regarding foreign policy.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-s-secretary-state-pick-may-help-direct-shift-u-n695486
Thoughts?

And there's this. I would laugh if it weren't real.
Scientists are frantically copying US climate data, fearing it might vanish under Trump:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/12/13/scientists-are-frantically-copying-u-s-climate-data-fearing-it-might-vanish-under-trump/?client=safari
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 03:45:34 PM by Emily » Logged
the captain
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« Reply #224 on: December 13, 2016, 03:54:45 PM »

Re that latter point, it's not entirely unbelievable, is it? I haven't read the article, but was going to say something on a similar topic: the questionnaire asking for names of everyone who worked on or attended conventions/seminars on climate science over the past five years, and their notes or emails regarding same. The Oops Dept is, to their credit, so far refusing to turn over names.  (Aforementioned two sentences based on an NPR story I heard this afternoon.)

I'll check out that story you linked, thanks.
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