Part 2 of interview with Mike book collaborator James S. Hirsch

[Mark Dillon]

Hi All,

So Phil Miglioratti, operator of the Pray for Surf blog, and I got to continue our chat with Jim Hirsch, collaborator on Mike's "Good Vibrations" memoir. Because the topic sparked a whole lot of conversation here, we talked more about the notion of Mike not touring with Brian and Al anymore due to the 50th Anniversary tour losing money. But this was a far more wide-reaching conversation about Mike and how he is perceived, his relationships with the other band members, Mike's assessment of Brian's other collaborators and various Beach Boys albums, the book's unresolved ending, revelations about Charles Manson, and more.

You can listen here:

https://archive.org/details/JIMHIRSCH10282016PART2

[guitarfool2002]

Mark: Thank you again for posting the interview. On several points, it was good to have you there to interject where necessary.

I listened to the whole thing. Unlike what happened with part 1, would you be willing to have a dialogue with me on this forum about these interviews? The comment section on Phil's blog has not gotten any activity, even on part 1, and there seemed to be demand for some dialogue or "after show" at least here with the number of comments and discussions. Smiley Smile got a shout out, so the invitation to you and Phil is open.

I understand the why's and how's about asking questions, and handling guests. However, the points raised after part one were completely ignored, and the answer given to C50's "lost money" issues did not address the facts and figures versus the claim itself - Back to the part 1 discussions, 15 million dollar domestic gross, 11 weeks on tour, average 1.3 million per week. It's public and industry record - not a word was said. Maureen Love, Steve Love, the 2005 lawsuit especially related to Al Jardine since the topic of Mike and Al's relationship was raised...nothing.

I know Phil is a member here, but if he doesn't read this or reply, I hope what I'm about to say gets passed onto him.

Phil: At one point, you brought up the people around Brian, harming Brian as they were harming Mike, the discussion was around those issues. The names were raised: Murry, Landy, Landy again, and then you said those around him now, or the current situation, I'll have to go back for the exact quote. You did mention Melinda, as in not wanting to name her by name, but that's my issue.

That upset me, and perhaps you can clarify if you didn't mean it to sound as it did.

Phil, are you not seeing that these "people around Brian" and his current situation that you list after Murry and Landy 1&2 are the man's wife and children? If you are going to do what Mike has done in interviews, and draw a continuous line from Landy to 2016, I'll take serious issue with that and ask for more clarifications.

It became especially frustrating when toward the end, the discussion turned to the effect that criticism of Mike can and does have on his family and his children who read it.

Unless you view marriage and raising children as part of that marriage and sacred bond differently than I do, and that's possible, is not having a wife of 21 years and raising children (i.e. a family) applicable to the Wilsons as well?

I could not believe the comments connecting Landy to present-day in any way related to Brian's everyday life when Mike and others said them in the past, and I was more disappointed than incredulous to hear one of the interviewers of this podcast suggest the same thing.

Beyond that, there is more to discuss and I wish not as many points raised and reacted to from part 1 had been left out of part 2.

[Mark Dillon]

Hi GF,

Happy to have a dialogue. We gave Jim the chance to elaborate on the claim of the 2012 tour losing money, and he responded with as much as he knows--and he admitted that his knowledge on the subject was limited. We could have pressed, but I don't think he had any more to add, and there was a lot more to talk about. I had Mike's 2005 lawsuit against Brian on my list of questions, but if the question is why it isn't mentioned in the book, I think the answer is obvious: because Mike lost the lawsuit. And I agree with you--I would never draw any kind of comparison between Landy and Melinda.   

[guitarfool2002]

Hi GF,

Happy to have a dialogue. We gave Jim the chance to elaborate on the claim of the 2012 tour losing money, and he responded with as much as he knows--and he admitted that his knowledge on the subject was limited. We could have pressed, but I don't think he had any more to add, and there was a lot more to talk about. I had Mike's 2005 lawsuit against Brian on my list of questions, but if the question is why it isn't mentioned in the book, I think the answer is obvious: because Mike lost the lawsuit. And I agree with you--I would never draw any kind of comparison between Landy and Melinda.  

Thanks Mark.

When Jim started to say he'd like to clarify something he said in part 1 about C50, I thought it would be on the losing money comments. But instead he started to talk about the whole "Mike fired Brian" deal, which I don't recall even coming up prominently in part 1 or on this forum reacting to part 1, unless I missed it. But the whole issue was trying to set the numbers to agree with the statements, and in all honestly Jim avoided answering it. If he had no proof other than Mike said it lost money, then he could be open to the suggestion that the facts and figures from the US leg of the tour suggest otherwise.

What I have seen over and over again is this notion that Brian would be writing with if not touring with Mike "if only...", and the "if only..." in this case went back to "if only the people around Brian would allow it", which suggests yet another myth and outright fallacy about how "controlled" Brian is...because he's not working with Mike and touring in Mike's current band lineup, is the implication he's not allowed to? That's absurd. yet the implications are always popping up. And I would like to hear what Jim would say if asked about these very issues, although both Jim and Phil seemed willing to draw that line from Landy to 2016, and that's sickening.

Is this what Mike believes, do you think? Is the thought boiling down to "If Melinda were not in the picture, Brian and Mike would be together"?

Marriage and raising a family wins out every time. Especially a 21 year marriage. I don't understand why that cannot be accepted for what it is.

[Mark Dillon]

I think the bottom line is that Mike is happy with his current touring arrangement, and Brian is happy working in the studio with Joe Thomas. 

[guitarfool2002]

I have to go there Mark, you hinted at it:  

If Mike got what he wanted re: the touring situation returning to his terms and how he wanted it to be after C50 ended, then why is everyone still pining away for another situation like C50? And if he wanted to work with Brian again in terms of recording, would Mike agreeing to do some of the songs as "Beach Boys" songs which ended up on No Pier Pressure instead have been a way to facilitate that?

[Mark Dillon]

What some fans want and what Brian and Al want doesn't necessarily jibe with what Mike wants. And Mike has said it before, he wants to write with Brian from scratch; he doesn't want any part of songs Brian has already finished or nearly finished.

[guitarfool2002]

What some fans want and what Brian and Al want doesn't necessarily jibe with what Mike wants. And Mike has said it before, he wants to write with Brian from scratch; he doesn't want any part of songs Brian has already finished or nearly finished.

That's more of the same sentiment Mike has been speaking for years, he wants to get Brian alone in a room with a piano and write from scratch. But what if that isn't how Brian has been either writing, or wants to write? Mike cites Good Vibrations and California Girls, yet those were not written "from scratch" between the two of them. With CG, Brian had the full backing track and music completed mostly on his own before the final lyrics were added, and same with GV. If those were the high points of their collaboration, they were not done as Mike seems to want to do hypothetically.

And Mike and Brian did write together again as soon as Brian got away from Landy, dozens of songs beyond the ones we already know (or have demos of) according to Don Was. Why did the band put the kibosh on those?

[Mark Dillon]

I'm sure Mike feels much more independent now than during Brian's 1960s peak and insists on being more of a driver of any collaboration between them. As for what songs may have been written in the Don Was period, Don blames himself for not seeing through more recording; it's also been pointed out that Carl didn't see a lot of good in what had been recorded, particularly the Andy Paley co-writes "Soul Searchin'" and "You're Still a Mystery," which I think are both very good. 

[PrayForSurf]

Thanks to all who listened and commented. And to Mark; he was great.

I did not mean to equate Melinda with Murry or Landy. I believe in marriage (I've officiated at scores of them). I believe she loves Brian and works hard to protect him. She is not seeking to harm her husband and from what I can tell they have a genuine loving relationship. She is, however, very involved with all decisions regarding Brian's career, a role similar to Murry and Landy.  Not everyone involved with the Beach Boys will always agree with the decisions she makes or implements. She is a loving wife who is involved in creative and business decisions, as was Murry and Landy. Trying to clarify ...

[guitarfool2002]

That's a clarification which did not come through during the interview with Jim Hirsch, and not one which Mike's comments in the book or interviews seem to make either. Ultimately it's not a one-way street, and the point could have been raised or at least a question asked to open further discussion about both Mike's and Brian's marriages as related to business and decisions made. How involved in the family business is Mike's wife Jackie? A fair question since the topic always and almost exclusively focuses on Brian and his wife Melinda.

It does upset me to see a 21 year marriage involving children being called out regularly with the implied priority being Mike and Brian writing songs together, and the priority going straight toward "if only..." as in why that isn't happening.

I'd suggest beyond that, maybe if the public comments in the book, interviews, etc made by Mike were not going after Brian's wife as they have, maybe the relationship between cousins would be different. But how many spouses would want to work with someone who has been openly criticizing their husband or wife for years? At some point it's bigger than "The Beach Boys" and it's real life. If someone trash talked my wife or girlfriend publicly, I wouldn't want anything to do with them.

Did either Mike or Jim Hirsch in recent interviews say that they were happy to see Brian happily married and raising a family? It always comes back to Mike and Brian not writing songs or sharing the stage together for live concerts. How about the simple goodwill of saying "I'm happy to see Brian is happy and raising a family with the woman he loves." ? That might go a very long way toward ending the estrangement.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

How about the simple goodwill of saying "I'm happy to see Brian is happy and raising a family with the woman he loves." ? That might go a very long way toward ending the estrangement.

Agreed.

For me personally, if someone was saying the kind of things about my wife that Mike has about Melinda, I would beat the holy hell out of them. If Mike truly wants to be "alone in a room" with Brian, he sure as hell is going about it the wrong way.

[guitarfool2002]

Billy, I keep coming back to that point and it amazes me that Mike has seemingly not considered the personal, basic, real-life consequences of publicly going after a man's wife in the press and in his book. And when Jim Hirsch and this part 2 of the interview seemed to be going down a similar path, I couldn't help but think "maybe this is why they're not working together", and I had to question (and will continue to do so) if they can't see the importance or even the most basic notion of a marriage. If you attack my spouse, you're attacking me. And consequences will be swift and severe. Maybe they don't see it that way, but that's the brass tacks of it. Or any marriage for that matter.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm sure Mike feels much more independent now than during Brian's 1960s peak and insists on being more of a driver of any collaboration between them. As for what songs may have been written in the Don Was period, Don blames himself for not seeing through more recording; it's also been pointed out that Carl didn't see a lot of good in what had been recorded, particularly the Andy Paley co-writes "Soul Searchin'" and "You're Still a Mystery," which I think are both very good. 

That is the one of the aspects which is either hard to understand or hard to rectify, how it seemed to be Carl who was the one not in favor of the new material. There was obviously more to the whole thing, but you had Brian just getting free of Landy who told Don Was he wanted to get back to working with the Beach Boys, Mike was back writing songs with Brian again, and it just fell apart.

I'd also suggest there were more missed opportunities and blown chances including the events surrounding Baywatch, and others, but Brian and Mike were back together writing songs as Mike has been wanting for years, yet it folded when it really did happen.

What I'd also like to see a discussion of is why there has been such a lack of original material coming from Mike himself, whether alone or in collaboration with anyone else, over the past 20+ years. Any talk of a new project from Mike always seems to revert back to remakes and re-recordings of Beach Boys material, or unused Beach Boys songs from decades ago. If there is a sense of independence, would Mike's fans be out of line in asking where are any new songs from Mike versus remakes?

[Mark Dillon]

There's long been the promise of a solo album, and Hirsch says one is forthcoming, but most of Mike's time is no doubt taken up by his crazy touring schedule.

[guitarfool2002]

There's long been the promise of a solo album, and Hirsch says one is forthcoming, but most of Mike's time is no doubt taken up by his crazy touring schedule.

In the latter half of part 2, I don't remember who said it, but the comment was made that Mike needs his cousin Brian to write songs, or something to that effect. That makes it sound like Mike's songwriting, or even the act of writing something new, hinges on working with Brian, with all the associated conditions Mike has listed through the years (alone in room with Brian and piano, etc.). Yet the fact he is playing so many shows might suggest it's a time/scheduling factor too, as in he's touring so much he doesn't have time to write new songs? It's not as much a contradiction, but it brings another element into why he's not writing new songs in general, with or without Brian in a room. I still think for Mike's fans, the lack of new songs and the next solo album he's been teasing for over 30 years must raise questions like why does he always go back to remakes and where is a new album after decades of teasers?

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

There's long been the promise of a solo album, and Hirsch says one is forthcoming, but most of Mike's time is no doubt taken up by his crazy touring schedule.

In the latter half of part 2, I don't remember who said it, but the comment was made that Mike needs his cousin Brian to write songs, or something to that effect. That makes it sound like Mike's songwriting, or even the act of writing something new, hinges on working with Brian, with all the associated conditions Mike has listed through the years (alone in room with Brian and piano, etc.). Yet the fact he is playing so many shows might suggest it's a time/scheduling factor too, as in he's touring so much he doesn't have time to write new songs? It's not as much a contradiction, but it brings another element into why he's not writing new songs in general, with or without Brian in a room. I still think for Mike's fans, the lack of new songs and the next solo album he's been teasing for over 30 years must raise questions like why does he always go back to remakes and where is a new album after decades of teasers?

I'll make a wild guess and say that without a very strong collaborator, it is not possible or anywhere in reach of him writing a decent song. Looking at his songwriting history, there's little that would cue up the senses of even his most loyal fans let alone most of the record buying public which is something that would definitely mess with his fragile ego issues if it didn't sell well and most of us know it wouldn't. Perhaps he's trying to garner some sort of interest that he thinks may steamroll over the years ( like Smile certainly did) but that's not going to happen if the material is comparable with duds like Pisces Brothers, Daybreak, Sumahama, and Everyone's In Love With You among other vein attempts.

[Don Malcolm]

I think Mike's need to rewrite history by insinuating that he was more central to the creation of the songs has been his top priority ever since "Kokomo." Curiously, his book doesn't provide us with anything specific about the creative process that would seriously support such a claim. This is difficult to do because the "claims to art" that the BBs have continue to center around Pet Sounds and SMiLE, two works where Mike's creative involvement is well-known to be minimal.

Basically Brian abdicated the Beach Boys to Mike somewhere in the mid-90s, and that coincides with Brian's marriage and his on-again/off-again creative association with Joe Thomas. It would have been interesting to frame a question to Hirsch around this idea and see if he would have taken the bait to talk about that, but the great likelihood is that he would stick to the Mike faction's line about "Brian's people" estranging him from Mike.

It goes back to what I noted elsewhere: this situation would be vastly different if Carl had not died so young, and particularly if he were still with us. The dynamics would be completely different. Mike has had his way totally with image making and income creation for the BBs since Carl's passing, and the inconvenient truth is that he's doing it mostly due to the creative genius of a cousin who has long preferred to work with other collaborators. One of the notable things about Brians book, BTW, is how much praise he has for Jack Reiley. It would have been interesting to hear Hirsch talk about (or try to talk about) Jack's role in the band--a point in time when Mike actually started writing songs on his own.

[guitarfool2002]

I think Mike's need to rewrite history by insinuating that he was more central to the creation of the songs has been his top priority ever since "Kokomo." Curiously, his book doesn't provide us with anything specific about the creative process that would seriously support such a claim. This is difficult to do because the "claims to art" that the BBs have continue to center around Pet Sounds and SMiLE, two works where Mike's creative involvement is well-known to be minimal.

Basically Brian abdicated the Beach Boys to Mike somewhere in the mid-90s, and that coincides with Brian's marriage and his on-again/off-again creative association with Joe Thomas. It would have been interesting to frame a question to Hirsch around this idea and see if he would have taken the bait to talk about that, but the great likelihood is that he would stick to the Mike faction's line about "Brian's people" estranging him from Mike.

It goes back to what I noted elsewhere: this situation would be vastly different if Carl had not died so young, and particularly if he were still with us. The dynamics would be completely different. Mike has had his way totally with image making and income creation for the BBs since Carl's passing, and the inconvenient truth is that he's doing it mostly due to the creative genius of a cousin who has long preferred to work with other collaborators. One of the notable things about Brians book, BTW, is how much praise he has for Jack Reiley. It would have been interesting to hear Hirsch talk about (or try to talk about) Jack's role in the band--a point in time when Mike actually started writing songs on his own.

The points I raised in another topic regarding the mid-90's period could be applicable here too. When Brian was doing the documentary with Don Was, that was the time when he was finally free from Landy. The first thing he told Don Was he wanted to do was get back with the Beach Boys, and Don was there to act as the facilitator. According to Was, Mike possibly would have been in the documentary in some way, but the issues surrounding the lawsuit prevented that from happening. Still, Was had facilitated Brian getting back together with the band - free of Landy - and Brian and Mike were actively working on writing new songs for the band. The problem was, the ideas were vetoed.

Then, it got into the issues of Brian producing and actively working together with them again in general. According to Carlin's book, this did not go well either, and Brian's return was not what some would have wanted or imagined. That's when they tried to get Brian together with Sean O'Hagan, and that too didn't work.

Even beyond that - and I've said a lot about this before too, so apologies for repeating and rehashing - there were moments like the Baywatch appearance(s). Brian was back in the fold, there was legitimate buzz around this and I remember it well because I followed the news closely, yet what did the Baywatch "reunion" produce? Brian was there, and he basically contributed nothing. There were still photos of the band in front of a woodie wagon carrying a longboard, Brian was in a video on the beach wearing a black suit and Chucks with the reaction I think most of us would have had - "what the hell am I doing here?". And a "concert" was promoted to be filmed for Baywatch, that would have featured Brian for the first time with the band (or that's how it was hyped) in ages, yet when the concert actually happened, Brian shined on them. And I don't blame him a bit.

So around this same time period, those 3 years or so prior to Carl's passing, Brian was free of Landy, he wanted to reconnect with the band, and he did. Yet he was given a seat on the bench more or less. His songs including those he worked up with Mike were rejected, his "reunion" on Baywatch saw him standing on the beach doing nothing as John Stamos played electronic drums as the waves rolled in behind him, and Brian looked like an extra in his own band, for the reunion that a lot of fans and Brian himself had been waiting for.

It turned into a debacle. And even worse, the songs featured on Baywatch weren't even songs Brian had been involved with making. "Summer Of Love", several years old at the time, was the "video" on Baywatch.

My thoughts are the same as they were 20 years ago - If Brian Wilson is reuniting with the band, why didn't they give him more of a role instead of plugging stale songs from Summer In Paradise when the band had an audience of millions worldwide with Baywatch? It was a debacle.

Then Brian gets contacted by Mike about the country album Mike was developing with Joe Thomas. Brian says he'd do it if they got Willie Nelson. Willie got involved, Brian got involved, but after Willie's session, which Brian was involved with, his level of involvement dropped off. Not that he didn't produce, but not as directly as he did with Willie Nelson. Then he made some appearances and PR junkets for Stars & Stripes, but essentially they were running through remakes of old hits.

If I were in Brian's shoes (black Chucks of course, lol...) I'd be a little miffed. He came back hot and ready to write songs and work with the band, he wrote a few solid songs with Mike, he produced a terrific cover by Willie Nelson, he wanted to do more. But for whatever reasons we want to list, his involvement and return put him on the bench more or or less instead of being in the starting lineup where many fans were expecting him to be.

When Carl passed away, around that same time as he started working with Joe who was getting things done in that moment, as he started to play those one-off shows and have those tribute shows where artists were telling him how much they appreciated his music, I have to think he figured if my bandmates don't want me back in full, I'll do it myself, including touring with live shows with musicians who can play my music and who want to play my music without conditions. And that's exactly what he did, and he's still doing it. Instead of standing on a beach with soundtrack music he had nothing to do with, he would be out there on his own with music he actually did write, and giving shows for fans who wanted to see and hear him.

In a history full of blown opportunities and allowing the red-hot irons of expectation and opportunity to go cold, this 1994-97 period ranks near the top of the BB's list.

[Aomdiddlywalla]

(Sean) MacCreavey or O'Hagan? 😉

[guitarfool2002]

(Sean) MacCreavey or O'Hagan? 😉

Thanks! Sean O'Hagan. It's now fixed.

[CenturyDeprived]

I think Mike's need to rewrite history by insinuating that he was more central to the creation of the songs has been his top priority ever since "Kokomo." Curiously, his book doesn't provide us with anything specific about the creative process that would seriously support such a claim. This is difficult to do because the "claims to art" that the BBs have continue to center around Pet Sounds and SMiLE, two works where Mike's creative involvement is well-known to be minimal.

Basically Brian abdicated the Beach Boys to Mike somewhere in the mid-90s, and that coincides with Brian's marriage and his on-again/off-again creative association with Joe Thomas. It would have been interesting to frame a question to Hirsch around this idea and see if he would have taken the bait to talk about that, but the great likelihood is that he would stick to the Mike faction's line about "Brian's people" estranging him from Mike.

It goes back to what I noted elsewhere: this situation would be vastly different if Carl had not died so young, and particularly if he were still with us. The dynamics would be completely different. Mike has had his way totally with image making and income creation for the BBs since Carl's passing, and the inconvenient truth is that he's doing it mostly due to the creative genius of a cousin who has long preferred to work with other collaborators. One of the notable things about Brians book, BTW, is how much praise he has for Jack Reiley. It would have been interesting to hear Hirsch talk about (or try to talk about) Jack's role in the band--a point in time when Mike actually started writing songs on his own.

The points I raised in another topic regarding the mid-90's period could be applicable here too. When Brian was doing the documentary with Don Was, that was the time when he was finally free from Landy. The first thing he told Don Was he wanted to do was get back with the Beach Boys, and Don was there to act as the facilitator. According to Was, Mike possibly would have been in the documentary in some way, but the issues surrounding the lawsuit prevented that from happening. Still, Was had facilitated Brian getting back together with the band - free of Landy - and Brian and Mike were actively working on writing new songs for the band. The problem was, the ideas were vetoed.

Then, it got into the issues of Brian producing and actively working together with them again in general. According to Carlin's book, this did not go well either, and Brian's return was not what some would have wanted or imagined. That's when they tried to get Brian together with Sean O'Hagan, and that too didn't work.

Even beyond that - and I've said a lot about this before too, so apologies for repeating and rehashing - there were moments like the Baywatch appearance(s). Brian was back in the fold, there was legitimate buzz around this and I remember it well because I followed the news closely, yet what did the Baywatch "reunion" produce? Brian was there, and he basically contributed nothing. There were still photos of the band in front of a woodie wagon carrying a longboard, Brian was in a video on the beach wearing a black suit and Chucks with the reaction I think most of us would have had - "what the hell am I doing here?". And a "concert" was promoted to be filmed for Baywatch, that would have featured Brian for the first time with the band (or that's how it was hyped) in ages, yet when the concert actually happened, Brian shined on them. And I don't blame him a bit.

So around this same time period, those 3 years or so prior to Carl's passing, Brian was free of Landy, he wanted to reconnect with the band, and he did. Yet he was given a seat on the bench more or less. His songs including those he worked up with Mike were rejected, his "reunion" on Baywatch saw him standing on the beach doing nothing as John Stamos played electronic drums as the waves rolled in behind him, and Brian looked like an extra in his own band, for the reunion that a lot of fans and Brian himself had been waiting for.

It turned into a debacle. And even worse, the songs featured on Baywatch weren't even songs Brian had been involved with making. "Summer Of Love", several years old at the time, was the "video" on Baywatch.

My thoughts are the same as they were 20 years ago - If Brian Wilson is reuniting with the band, why didn't they give him more of a role instead of plugging stale songs from Summer In Paradise when the band had an audience of millions worldwide with Baywatch? It was a debacle.

Then Brian gets contacted by Mike about the country album Mike was developing with Joe Thomas. Brian says he'd do it if they got Willie Nelson. Willie got involved, Brian got involved, but after Willie's session, which Brian was involved with, his level of involvement dropped off. Not that he didn't produce, but not as directly as he did with Willie Nelson. Then he made some appearances and PR junkets for Stars & Stripes, but essentially they were running through remakes of old hits.

If I were in Brian's shoes (black Chucks of course, lol...) I'd be a little miffed. He came back hot and ready to write songs and work with the band, he wrote a few solid songs with Mike, he produced a terrific cover by Willie Nelson, he wanted to do more. But for whatever reasons we want to list, his involvement and return put him on the bench more or or less instead of being in the starting lineup where many fans were expecting him to be.

When Carl passed away, around that same time as he started working with Joe who was getting things done in that moment, as he started to play those one-off shows and have those tribute shows where artists were telling him how much they appreciated his music, I have to think he figured if my bandmates don't want me back in full, I'll do it myself, including touring with live shows with musicians who can play my music and who want to play my music without conditions. And that's exactly what he did, and he's still doing it. Instead of standing on a beach with soundtrack music he had nothing to do with, he would be out there on his own with music he actually did write, and giving shows for fans who wanted to see and hear him.

In a history full of blown opportunities and allowing the red-hot irons of expectation and opportunity to go cold, this 1994-97 period ranks near the top of the BB's list.

Is it possible that those mid-90s BB sessions were scrapped in part because Mike didn't get to write with Brian in a room? Was that a concern back then too? Being that some pre-existing Paley material was brought to the table, maybe that just soured Mike on it from the beginning, regardless of how good the material was (in my mind, I could easily imagine that the quality level of how good any pre-existing material was would be a secondary concern to Mike if he was so fixated on writing songs from scratch). I know that Carl famously was not cool with the material, and that could be due to any number of reasons too.

[Sam_BFC]

I know that the Paley material from that era is well known.  Is much specifically known about the "solid" Brian/Mike material that was vetoed?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I've often wondered what Carl's issue was with the material, and why he apparently vetoed a PS Live tour (per the Carlin book)...

[urbanite]

Although Brian was around during the Baywatch period, I suspect he was not up to writing and producing at a high level.