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Author Topic: Advantages of Hearing Smile in Mono  (Read 4077 times)
harrisonjon
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« on: October 05, 2016, 09:36:12 AM »

How persuasive are these points about the mono?:

1) You're hearing it as Brian heard it

2) Mono feels like a cohesive listen; stereo has more sounds (obviously) but can feel like a bag of tricks; bells and whistles.

3) Something satisfying about the rhythm section in mono; warmer
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Joel Goldenberg
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2016, 12:02:57 PM »

All good points and I agree, except for the fact that some good stuff can get buried. That's why the stereo Pet Sounds and the Endless Harmony first mix of Kiss Me Baby were such revelations to me.
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2016, 03:50:13 PM »


Disadvantages of listening in mono:

Rarely do we hear what Brian heard on playback in 66-67, instead we have smile fragments newly mixed to mono and then compressed way too much.  Dynamic range is lost.  The acetate bits used (well I guess only one, CIFTTM) sound nothing like Brian would have heard in the studio of course.  We don't have much in the way of vintage mono mixes of the material - and one that we do have, Child instrumental mono mix, wasn't included in the box set.  Also not what Brian would have heard - the Frankenstein fly-ins.

Where we do hear how Brian would have heard Smile is the instrumental tracking sessions, although he wouldn't be able to fully hear the stereo - did Chuck have a mono playback system for Brian at this time?  I know Desper did later.

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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2016, 05:37:03 PM »

All good points and I agree, except for the fact that some good stuff can get buried. That's why the stereo Pet Sounds and the Endless Harmony first mix of Kiss Me Baby were such revelations to me.

Right. If man was to designed to listen to mono, he would have been given only one ear. Just enjoy the stereo and all it's dimensions and depth. If you want mono, throw a thick blanket over each speaker.  Wink
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sockittome
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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2016, 06:58:34 PM »

Advantages of mono:
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Willy Wilson
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2016, 12:25:31 AM »

Advantages of mono:

Yep  Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2016, 01:05:18 AM »

I'd say that some songs would be more cohesive in mono as there isn't much instrumentation, while others are layered and could take proper advantage of the stereo sound stage.
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2016, 02:26:30 AM »

Right. If man was to designed to listen to mono, he would have been given only one ear. ... If you want mono, throw a thick blanket over each speaker.  Wink

 LOL LOL

I personally prefer the original mono of stuff but as mentioned a stereo version can be a revelation. I think those two conditions can happily co-exist. 


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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2016, 11:21:49 AM »

nobody could ever accuse me of being a fan of mono, in any case, except perhaps GOOD VIBRATIONS.  Somehow that one holds up as it always has perfectly fine in mono, and they can save themselves the DES trouble and not risk making things worse by leaving it so for good
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2016, 06:52:15 AM »

How persuasive are these points about the mono?:

1) You're hearing it as Brian heard it

2) Mono feels like a cohesive listen; stereo has more sounds (obviously) but can feel like a bag of tricks; bells and whistles.

3) Something satisfying about the rhythm section in mono; warmer
COMMENT to harrisonjon: FYI  --

(1) You may wish to know that when Brian listens in the control room, he likes to be near the monitor speaker (12 to 18 inches) with his good ear toward the cone. Mono is NOT two stereo speakers playing the same thing. Monophonic sound is reproduced using ONE speaker. Two speakers reproducing a phantom center image is not Mono sound . . .  the technical term for this type of reproduction is "homophasic."  Monophasic uses only one single speaker.

(2)  Stereo has no more sounds than mono. If you use one speaker, get up close to it, and listen intensely, you will discover everything to be there in layers.  It's a good exercise in listening.

(3)  Rhythm, and vocal blend in mono is surprisingly easier to get balanced than in stereo.

I encourage you, along with poster harrisonjon, to listen in mono using one speaker -- and listen at length. It will give you a new aspect and enjoyable perspective of Brian's creations.


~swd
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SamMcK
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2016, 09:15:06 AM »

All of the early pre-Pet Sounds stuff is pretty damn fantastic in Mono. That incredible punchiness on All Summer Long for example. But Pet Sounds in Stereo is something incredible (and so is the Mono mix before anyone things I don't like it)
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Ram4
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2016, 09:34:57 AM »

After hearing how amazing the Beach Boys sound in stereo (Surfer Girl album vocals or Pet Sounds backing tracks a couple of examples) an argument for mono doesn't work for me.  When I heard Surf's Up or Vegetables from the Smile Sessions in stereo as bonus LP cuts, I didn't want to settle for the album in mono. 
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2016, 09:17:28 AM »

After hearing how amazing the Beach Boys sound in stereo (Surfer Girl album vocals or Pet Sounds backing tracks a couple of examples) an argument for mono doesn't work for me.  When I heard Surf's Up or Vegetables from the Smile Sessions in stereo as bonus LP cuts, I didn't want to settle for the album in mono. 

COMMENT to Ram4:  I don't think anyone here is making the argument FOR or AGAINST mono or stereo, rather just making a statement that both formats have value -- not to discard one because the other is available.

A long time ago, when I first started studio recording for the boys, there came a time when we had a lull in production -- a long weekend with some of the guys on vacation. During that time I decided to enter into an experiment with myself. I blocked one ear with an earplug and kept it in for several days. I wanted to experience life as Brian would; maybe gaining some insight into how to handle his handicap. It took about a day to get use to this new sonic experience, but soon I was able to judge distance and by turning my head, direction of a sound. Of course it wasn't the experience of binaural, but it was OK. In the studio, stereo was, as Brian told me, a confusing thing to hear. But mono over one speaker was as natural as all the other sounds in reality. I could understand how he could produce a recording without any problem. I could also understand how Brian, as a record producer, could seek comfort in drugs and solitude as his entire recording game changed all the rules in a way he could not experience. Like being a color blind movie maker in a world of Technicolor. Certainly you could make a good movie, direct the actors, edit the script, and to some extent light the set, but at some point, control of the production was unknown and unknowable to you. You had to turn that part of the production over to someone who could see color.  You had to trust their judgment. The concept of red or blue or yellow was, to you, just words.
Stereo can be explained in words too, but the empirical experience can only be imagined. So again, you can make a good song into a good musical arrangement, direct the musicians, edit the tape, know when the "feel" is "in", but as a production in stereo, you must trust someone else to that task.
In nature you can turn your head to find the direction of sound. But in stereo reproduction, that doesn't work. The ear/brain mechanism does not process two-speaker stereo the same as sound in nature. Even for the binaural listener, stereo is confusing to the brain. In the final analysis it re-defines and processes everything as homophasic or antiphasic signals, not left and right signals. Brian only hears homophasic signals with a further handicap of unilateral deafness. So turning the head doesn't give you direction indication in two-speaker stereo reproduction. Additionally, depth is heard over two-speaker stereo as a difference in arrival time of one side to the other, but when hearing only one speaker or even two speakers over one ear, will not provide any clues to the brain as to depth.
I think what mono listening to Brian's productions does is to give you a chance to enter into Brian's world of hearing. Of course this is different than the hearing world of the binaural listening person, but given the limitations that Brian has, listening in mono can provide a new and genuine way to hear the music -- the way "the master" hears his music. 
Nothing wrong with that !!

~swd
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MikestheGreatest!!
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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2016, 03:29:01 PM »

I think the Smile mono sounds weak, muddy.
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Cool Cool Water
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2016, 05:51:59 AM »

You can't beat mono, but some of the stereo outputs over the years are brilliant.

As stated previous. PS in stereo is awesome!  
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jiggy22
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« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2016, 06:50:40 AM »

Not the biggest fan of mono in general, but I think the 2011 mono mix of "Cabin-Essence" sounds pretty cool, especially with Mike's pitched-shifted vocals during the "Grand Coulee Dam" section. A pretty good improvement on the original.

I am, however, a big fan of Smiley Smile in mono. You can more easily hear the edit cuts between sections ("With Me Tonight" and "Wind Chimes" for example), I love it!
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« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2016, 08:54:34 PM »

Not the biggest fan of mono in general, but I think the 2011 mono mix of "Cabin-Essence" sounds pretty cool, especially with Mike's pitched-shifted vocals during the "Grand Coulee Dam" section.

Pitch-shifted? I'm not remembering this...
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« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2016, 09:16:57 PM »

Not the biggest fan of mono in general, but I think the 2011 mono mix of "Cabin-Essence" sounds pretty cool, especially with Mike's pitched-shifted vocals during the "Grand Coulee Dam" section.

Pitch-shifted? I'm not remembering this...

Compare the stereo 20/20 version with the mono Smile Sessions version, you'll notice that Mike's line (over and over...) is pitch shifted by about 2% or so. It sounds more in tune with the rest of the track IMO.
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« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2016, 05:39:32 AM »

Not the biggest fan of mono in general, but I think the 2011 mono mix of "Cabin-Essence" sounds pretty cool, especially with Mike's pitched-shifted vocals during the "Grand Coulee Dam" section. A pretty good improvement on the original.

I am, however, a big fan of Smiley Smile in mono. You can more easily hear the edit cuts between sections ("With Me Tonight" and "Wind Chimes" for example), I love it!

Your "alternate album" of the mono Smiley Smile was one of my favorites, and it was also one of the least listened to of your alternate albums!
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« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2016, 07:29:11 AM »

In terms of "Smile" stuff being muddy, *some* of that stuff is just inherently muddy. "Do You Like Worms" appears to sound like a tenth generation cassette dub even on the multitracks.
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« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2016, 11:28:00 AM »

Not the biggest fan of mono in general, but I think the 2011 mono mix of "Cabin-Essence" sounds pretty cool, especially with Mike's pitched-shifted vocals during the "Grand Coulee Dam" section. A pretty good improvement on the original.

I am, however, a big fan of Smiley Smile in mono. You can more easily hear the edit cuts between sections ("With Me Tonight" and "Wind Chimes" for example), I love it!

Your "alternate album" of the mono Smiley Smile was one of my favorites, and it was also one of the least listened to of your alternate albums!

I'm glad to hear you liked it Smiley I'm sure I'll get around to posting it back onto my blog one of these days!
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