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Author Topic: The Beach Boys' Legacy In 200 Years  (Read 3809 times)
TheWonderfulHarpsichord
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« on: September 23, 2016, 06:16:47 PM »

Okay I know this is a very odd topic and most will probably find it dumb and impossible to answer but I want to hear your guys opinions.

How do you guys think the Beach Boys will be regarded  in 200 years? The reason I say 200 is because that's almost how long it's been since Ludwig Van Beethoven died, and today most view him as one of the most important composers ever in terms of musical influence and accomplishments, and yes I know The beach Boys are one of the biggest and most influential bands ever but i'm not talking about now, in the future. Beethoven's music is often regarded as "timeless". Will the Beach Boys music possibly be regarded as "timeless"? In what sense? Will only their more famous works survive the test of time, or will some of their underrated masterpieces gain in favor over the years? Will people look back and say that they were game changers? Even more so than we do today?

Will their contributions to music be remembered and revered? Will Brian's revolutionary musical structures,arrangements,and studio techniques hold up all of the music in the future? Will their music be studied more (because I know it already is)? Will each individual Beach Boys' legacy live on? Or just the Wilsons?

Again kind of a question with no answer, i just wanna hear your guys thoughts on this topic.



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barto
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2016, 08:59:13 PM »

Okay I know this is a very odd topic and most will probably find it dumb and impossible to answer but I want to hear your guys opinions.

How do you guys think the Beach Boys will be regarded  in 200 years? The reason I say 200 is because that's almost how long it's been since Ludwig Van Beethoven died, and today most view him as one of the most important composers ever in terms of musical influence and accomplishments, and yes I know The beach Boys are one of the biggest and most influential bands ever but i'm not talking about now, in the future. Beethoven's music is often regarded as "timeless". Will the Beach Boys music possibly be regarded as "timeless"? In what sense? Will only their more famous works survive the test of time, or will some of their underrated masterpieces gain in favor over the years? Will people look back and say that they were game changers? Even more so than we do today?

Will their contributions to music be remembered and revered? Will Brian's revolutionary musical structures,arrangements,and studio techniques hold up all of the music in the future? Will their music be studied more (because I know it already is)? Will each individual Beach Boys' legacy live on? Or just the Wilsons?

Again kind of a question with no answer, i just wanna hear your guys thoughts on this topic.



Don't hurt me i'm new here...

IMO, there will be 2 important scholarly discussions about the music of the Beach Boys:

The first is about the 'California sound', which the guys invented and continues to impact culture to this day. I believe this group will be discussed with the Beatles as being a significant influence, especially in America. Their impact is not only on pop music but the idealization of southern california in general in pop culture.

The second is about Brian Wilson, the composer. I do think he will be looked on with great reverence and remembered as one of the greatest musical minds in history. As the popularity of the band declines, music scholars will continue to study his unique chord progressions and incredible harmonies for years to come. I think his name will be discussed among Bach, Beethoven, Wagner, Gershwin, Lennon, and McCartney as some of the greatest minds in western music.

or maybe the singularity will have happened and we're all in some sort of hive consciousness in which every possible opinion of the beach boys will be known and felt by all.
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thorgil
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2016, 05:24:05 AM »

Great thread idea!
The Beach Boys, and Brian Wilson, will be remembered and cherished as long as there are real human beings around. And yes, Brian will always have his place among the greatest. No Pier Pressure will be recognised as the masterpiece it is. Smiley

And let's hope Solar System, and finding wives (and husbands) on Mars, becomes a reality!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 05:03:59 AM by thorgil » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2016, 06:54:51 AM »

200 years from now...that's a long time. By then the Boys will be a footnote in musical history. Brian will fare just a bit better . Twenty generations from now , people will have totally different tastes .
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thorgil
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2016, 07:15:00 AM »

I wouldn't be so sure. There are things like absolute values in art, independent of times and the fashions of the moment. Homer is still considered a great genius after about 3000 years. And If you think that Homer is semi-mythological, Virgil is not, and he's stil considered a genius after 2000 years.
If we talk music, sadly we have no samples of the music of thousands of years ago, but Claudio Monteverdi is still considered a genius after 400 years.
The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson are in this category, like the Beatles and several others.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 08:29:59 AM by thorgil » Logged

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rab2591
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2016, 08:23:23 AM »

I've always wondered about this.

Three things that come to my mind:

1. In 200 years the recording sound of these songs will be drastically dated. A small part of me assumes these songs would sound much like old wax recording cylinders do to us these days: though the 1960s recordings currently sound beautiful to us, the future evolution of audio technology makes me wonder what new heights will be scaled in 200 years making even today's music sound obsolete.

2. I think Brian's love and genius for harmony will keep this band (or just Brian) in the history books. This brings up a story I've told here or elsewhere before: I was at a deep-in-the-mountains county fair of sorts last March, part of it took place in a school. They were selling t-shirts and gifts in the music room of this school, and on the wall was a mural of famous musicians/composers. Mozart, Beethoven, Vivaldi, and up there next to Gershwin was Brian Wilson. Some backwoods country high school in the middle of nowhere was placing Brian Wilson (not the Beach Boys) up there with Mozart and Beethoven.

3. The message of Pet Sounds is timeless. "I wanna go home" "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" "I had to prove that I could make it alone" - all of those topics will still be relevant in the year 2216.

So with those points said. I think Brian's compositions will still be listened to in 200 years. I also think that perhaps the music landscape will evolve so much that someone will "evolve" Brian's music. In the last 100 years there have been many orchestra conductors who place their own special touch on symphonies that they play. Some will play them slow, fast. Others use amazing recording technology to make the songs really shine. Max Richter recently completely transformed Vivaldi's 'Four Seasons' by re-composing them, and even making some EDM mixes out of them. It has become a very popular album.

In 200 years I can see someone with a gift for music somehow evolving Brian's music to match that with the music being made in 2216. The way humans listen to music in 2216 would probably be so foreign to us. Perhaps scientists will find a way to channel music to our brains other than through our ears (creating all sorts of stimulant possibilities). Perhaps a 2216 legal mixture of drugs, science, and recording technology will make music an experience like no other - and older music will have to evolve with those changes.

Just throwing these ideas out there, this is such a great topic; looking forward to hearing more opinions!
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2016, 03:41:14 PM »

I think Mike's Rock'n Roll Hall of Fame speech will still be considered obnoxious.
Other than that... I'm not so sure humanity will still be there in 200 years! But if we survive, I'd like to think that Pacific Ocean Blue will be seen as one of the most important musical contributions to the 20th century!

"Summer of Love" will be studied and analyzed in cyber-universities everywhere.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 03:43:19 PM by Toursiveu » Logged
the captain
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2016, 04:05:56 PM »

I think if anyone in the general public remembers anything about the Beach Boys at all, that should be considered a tremendous success. Realistically, let's think about how many 200-year-old musicians Joe Average knows. The list is short, and his knowledge is shorter. So yeah, Beethoven. Joe Average may even know the classic opening third of "dum dum dum DUUUMMMMM" (in the Fifth). But he doesn't know a whole lot else, other than something that was background music in a movie or shampoo commercial, and that anonymously.

I have no doubt that academics of pop music will know the band: there was enough success, musical merit, and cultural relevance--not to mention substantial documentation--for academics in the field to find dissertation material, right up there with the other obvious winners in this game, such as the Beatles, Bob Dylan, etc.

But normal people aren't going to know much or care much. Not to say they mightn't find the beauty of "God Only Knows" if presented with it. Just to say that there will be another 200 years' worth of art, to say nothing of what's already out there. You can't expect much.
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2016, 04:29:40 PM »

I think if anyone in the general public remembers anything about the Beach Boys at all, that should be considered a tremendous success. Realistically, let's think about how many 200-year-old musicians Joe Average knows. The list is short, and his knowledge is shorter. So yeah, Beethoven. Joe Average may even know the classic opening third of "dum dum dum DUUUMMMMM" (in the Fifth). But he doesn't know a whole lot else, other than something that was background music in a movie or shampoo commercial, and that anonymously.

I have no doubt that academics of pop music will know the band: there was enough success, musical merit, and cultural relevance--not to mention substantial documentation--for academics in the field to find dissertation material, right up there with the other obvious winners in this game, such as the Beatles, Bob Dylan, etc.

But normal people aren't going to know much or care much. Not to say they mightn't find the beauty of "God Only Knows" if presented with it. Just to say that there will be another 200 years' worth of art, to say nothing of what's already out there. You can't expect much.

I dunno, I think I disagree. Music 200 years ago wasn't as widely documented as it has been since the 20th century. Sure, Average Joe might only recognize the "big names" like Beethoven, and maybe Average Joe can't put the name to the specific piece of music, but the awareness seems to be built into our subconscious now. What if the internet had existed when Beethoven was active? We might have access to listener and critic reviews the likes of which we can today only imagine! And I think such documentation would have created a deeper and richer awareness of those artists for even Average Joe.

I also think that as popular culture grows and continues to become a mainstream subject of study -- hey, you can study pop culture in university now! -- the music of our recent history, say the past 100 years, is something that's going to be in the text books. I'm thinking specifically of a popular music elective course I took back in the late 90's when I was working on my English BA. I learned all about Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington and Tin Pan Alley and Buddy Holly and Elvis Presley, and yeah, even the Beach Boys. They're already there, in the text books as part of the formative history of rock 'n' roll, and popular music in general. That isn't going to change. In 200 years when students are taking their "history of pop music" electives (or compulsory courses for their History of Popular Music degree, as the case may be), they're going to be tracing back a further distance than my text book did, but the Beach Boys will be there. I'd even say those textbooks would even have a chapter devoted to Brian Wilson as an individual.

I also think 200 years isn't really a huge chunk of time. How many generations is that? I'm bad at math so I'm not going to try and figure it out, lol. But we know that parents are passing their music on to their kids. Imagine if vinyl records existed in Beethoven's time, and you could get your hands on an original Beethoven record?! How friggin' cool would that be, for even an Average Joe collector? I fully intend to instill my love of music and pass my record collection down to my nieces and nephews, and if I do it right, they'll do the same.

Gosh, it makes me sort of wish I could take a peak into the future and really see just how well preserved the legacy of the Beach Boys/Brian Wilson could be! My heart's beating fast just thinking about that, how weird, lol!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 04:32:33 PM by SCaroline Z » Logged
the captain
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2016, 04:35:27 PM »

Interesting posts, but I think your whole point supports me. More music is more accessible to more people ... and that's why nobody is going to care as much, necessarily. There is information about everyone. And more pop music and culture is a part of formal higher education, sure. But pop culture is constantly churning, so there already is limited space for the Beach Boys. In 200 years (10 generations? Don't they usually give a generation 20 years?), think how much more there will be. So from a pop perspective, they will lose importance, just from sheer competition. If in 2216 you're studying mid 1960s pop music, yeah, they'll be all over it. But if you're just a normal guy, the information may well be entirely available, but you'll just not have any real reason to care.
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2016, 04:39:47 PM »

Interesting posts, but I think your whole point supports me. More music is more accessible to more people ... and that's why nobody is going to care as much, necessarily. There is information about everyone. And more pop music and culture is a part of formal higher education, sure. But pop culture is constantly churning, so there already is limited space for the Beach Boys. In 200 years (10 generations? Don't they usually give a generation 20 years?), think how much more there will be. So from a pop perspective, they will lose importance, just from sheer competition. If in 2216 you're studying mid 1960s pop music, yeah, they'll be all over it. But if you're just a normal guy, the information may well be entirely available, but you'll just not have any real reason to care.

Captain -- by extension, I assume you would be also saying the same about Elvis and the Beatles? In 200 years, will everyone have forgotten/ceased to care about them as well?

EDIT - I see that you did say that. Nevermind...
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 04:43:28 PM by SCaroline Z » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2016, 04:50:17 PM »



IMO, there will be 2 important scholarly discussions about the music of the Beach Boys:

The first is about the 'California sound', which the guys invented and continues to impact culture to this day. I believe this group will be discussed with the Beatles as being a significant influence, especially in America. Their impact is not only on pop music but the idealization of southern california in general in pop culture.

The second is about Brian Wilson, the composer. I do think he will be looked on with great reverence and remembered as one of the greatest musical minds in history. As the popularity of the band declines, music scholars will continue to study his unique chord progressions and incredible harmonies for years to come. I think his name will be discussed among Bach, Beethoven, Wagner, Gershwin, Lennon, and McCartney as some of the greatest minds in western music.

or maybe the singularity will have happened and we're all in some sort of hive consciousness in which every possible opinion of the beach boys will be known and felt by all.
'"
I fully agree. My first thought was that there are two legacies: the Beach Boys as a group - and in that case they will be remembered as a band with a sound that's quintessential to a time and place - will be considered a part of pop culture history; and Brian Wilson as a composer/arranger will be considered a part of the history of music as an art.
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the captain
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2016, 04:50:44 PM »

SCaroline Z: Yeah, more or less. But really, go back to my first post: I think some select few names and songs will survive for the general public. But nothing in-depth. People in 2216 won't be debating the Kinks v the Stones v the Mothers of Invention v Beefheart v Beach Boys v Dylan v whoever else. I think very few people, and very few works, will be generally known. But academics will certainly have a treasure trove of source material that would make historians of ancient subjects drool, and some of those will absolutely dig in to all of the above and more.
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2016, 05:01:05 PM »

SCaroline Z: Yeah, more or less. But really, go back to my first post: I think some select few names and songs will survive for the general public. But nothing in-depth. People in 2216 won't be debating the Kinks v the Stones v the Mothers of Invention v Beefheart v Beach Boys v Dylan v whoever else. I think very few people, and very few works, will be generally known. But academics will certainly have a treasure trove of source material that would make historians of ancient subjects drool, and some of those will absolutely dig in to all of the above and more.

Well Captain, in case you're right, I'd like to just put it out into the universe that I vote for Good Vibrations to become the new Beethoven's 5th in 2216 Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2016, 05:09:41 PM »

1. In 200 years the recording sound of these songs will be drastically dated. A small part of me assumes these songs would sound much like old wax recording cylinders do to us these days: though the 1960s recordings currently sound beautiful to us, the future evolution of audio technology makes me wonder what new heights will be scaled in 200 years making even today's music sound obsolete.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Recorded sound and consumer playback have not improved much within the past 50 or so years (in some cases, it's become worse). Audio technology is not really improving. What's changing are the types of sounds that people find appealing. And since the future owes such a debt to the past, I wouldn't be surprised if pop music from the '50s-'70s is still widely reveled 200 years from now.

How long has a violin been in existence? Is a violin from 200 years ago worse than a violin from today? Recording technology peaked sometime in the mid-late 1960s in my opinion.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 05:28:45 PM by DonnyL » Logged

the captain
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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2016, 05:24:32 PM »

SCaroline Z: Yeah, more or less. But really, go back to my first post: I think some select few names and songs will survive for the general public. But nothing in-depth. People in 2216 won't be debating the Kinks v the Stones v the Mothers of Invention v Beefheart v Beach Boys v Dylan v whoever else. I think very few people, and very few works, will be generally known. But academics will certainly have a treasure trove of source material that would make historians of ancient subjects drool, and some of those will absolutely dig in to all of the above and more.

Well Captain, in case you're right, I'd like to just put it out into the universe that I vote for Good Vibrations to become the new Beethoven's 5th in 2216 Smiley

Duly noted ... by future scholars, the NSA, Google, Apple, Russian hackers, Yahoo!, Chinese hackers, and XYZ Marketing Co.  Grin
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« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2016, 05:17:01 AM »

It all depends on whether our species is really only a big bunch of self-important idiots, or not.
If it is, in a couple centuries we will be extinct (or back in the caves), so no Beach Boys legacy, or any other. Sorry.
If it isn't, then the Boys and Brian will be still widely known, loved and performed 200 years from now, just like Beethoven, Mozart etc.
For a series of reasons including the Internet, I'm not overly optimistic. "Sapiens sapiens"... oh yeah, sure.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 05:25:28 AM by thorgil » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2016, 04:18:35 PM »

I've often thought about this for various bands, including the BB's and Beatles. My rule of thumb is, if a band, artist or composer is still fairly popular 50 years after their heyday, they'll probably still be listened to and talked about, at least among a narrow audience, 200 years afterwards.
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« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2016, 04:24:20 PM »

I've often thought about this for various bands, including the BB's and Beatles. My rule of thumb is, if a band, artist or composer is still fairly popular 50 years after their heyday, they'll probably still be listened to and talked about, at least among a narrow audience, 200 years afterwards.
For the most part I expect you're right. Every now and then, an artist can fall into obscurity for a while then interest will be revived; but I think what you say is the general truth.
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« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2016, 11:44:34 AM »

In the year 2525 . . . . anyway, I'll only be 266 years old, so I'll let you know.
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« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2016, 01:46:23 PM »

I think the band members, at their current ages, are certainly all thinking about this question.

I very sadly believe that Mike Love will be known to future generations as a 20th century Antonio Salieri, and that's a very, very tragic thing to have happened. As a fan of many of Mike's contributions to the band, this makes me incredibly sad, yet he just keeps solidifying that reputation to the masses, despite his best efforts to do long term improvement to his reputation (which generally backfire).
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 01:47:05 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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