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Author Topic: Brian's Book Discussion Thread.  (Read 35653 times)
leetwall97
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« Reply #75 on: October 13, 2016, 03:28:08 PM »

Brian talks about using the Eltro speed/pitch-shifter on Smiley Smile at one point. There was a thread about this device on here years back - it was basically an analogue machine that allowed you to change the length of a recording without changing the pitch, which is easy as anything now with digital recording and processing technology, but was quite a technical challenge back in the all-analogue 60s. As I understand it, the machine was a bit of a clunky old beast and was used to create the weird effects on the Boys' voices on the 'What A Blow' section of 'She's Going Bald'. I was delighted to see the man himself confirm that they used an Eltro... but the way he talks about it, he makes it sound as though they needed to recreate the effect of it for SMiLE in 2004. He mentions that 'She's Going Bald' was known as 'He Gives Speeches' during the SMiLE period specifically, so it's pretty clear what he's talking about.

You got that backwards, but I think you understand what it does. The Eltro changes the pitch without affecting the speed. This information is very eye-opening. They way it reads in the book, it sounds as if Brian is saying they used the Eltro on He Gives Speeches in 2004. And then when people heard it, they compared it to HAL 9000 in 2001 a space odyssey, therefore it was no longer a new/interesting sound fx to Brian. I think that's why it was left out in 2004, simply because it was no longer interesting (plus how on earth could you pull off an effect like that live?).

That tidbit of information though it a revelation to the Smile community. He Gives Speeches was to be worked on the Eltro. I have been wondering about this for some time now. She's goin' bald & He gives speeches follow the exact same structure. The only difference is, SGB is in the key of F#, while HGS is F. Why is that? It's a direct copy of the song. Why change just 1 semi-tone? Why even change it at all if you're going to use the Eltro on it??

People have argued that HS has been slowed down. People say Brian's voice sounds lower than normal on it. I agree with this, but it was truly recorded in F. Therefore, Brian was either changing his voice on purpose, or sped up the track, sang his vocal and then sped it back down. It's all very confusing. I'm glad he touched upon this issue, but there's still questions about the piece. Was it going to be sped up to F#? Who knows.

Some people theorize that HGS was the tag to Wonderful. I'd like to think so, but musically it doesn't make any sense. I guess you could lead into it after the 2nd verse (only if it's in the key of F#), but in the end it's never in the right key to go back into the 3rd Verse. It doesn't sound right. Maybe that's because Brian was going to use the Eltro on it. I'm gonna try that. But I must also ask you guys to think about the H&V Tag to Part 1, because it's a perfect fit as the tag in wonderful. Same tempo, same chords on HGS but backwards. It's all very confusing.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 03:30:19 PM by leetwall97 » Logged
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« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2016, 03:28:35 PM »

Skimming by the latest posts in this thread because I don't want spoilers but I just gotta say this because no one in my real life gets it... I'm not even halfway through the book and now the songs he's talked about so far all sound brand f*cking new... it's like I'm hearing them, hearing Brian for the first time.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 03:29:14 PM by SCaroline Z » Logged
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« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2016, 03:29:24 PM »

I've always been a little annoyed by Danny Hutton for some reason: he is to me what Stamos is to some, I guess. I don't like his music, and I just don't like him. But I love--just love--how often he is in BW stories. (I was actually shocked he only popped up maybe half a dozen times in the book.) But with that in mind, what really cracked me up was this line from the end acknowledgments, which I assume was meant as a playful dig:

"Outside the music world, I've had great friends like Danny Hutton..."
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« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2016, 03:51:55 PM »

Yeah, it's "different" for sure. Since BW changes his stories and his emotional reactions, printing a book of what he said (and meant) is impossible. One could re-write such a book every day. So for those who were "waiting to see what BW says" to settle some issues and reveal the truth about things ML lied about, well, let that go because there is very little detailed discursive history. It's more a set of emotional reactions to things remembered in the past. . .somewhat Proustian perhaps. At one point B tells the story of the first record and , rather like a Deconstructionist, argues that he feels like the story is being told to him rather than that he is telling it. All this is delightful and very Brian, and obviously very Derridean. So all in all the books reveals how BW could very well be feeling about particular topics at some one point in time when interviewed.  One can read it for the free play of his mind at work but surely not as a historical source, which I imagine it it not really intended to be.  BW's feelings and impressions are of historical value in themselves. The history recorded here is personal, impressionistic, and perhaps ML's is the same, though that book proceeded rationally and chronologically.  What I prefer about Mike's book is the thematic coherence--how he and his co-writer weave the themes of the "switchblade and the butterfly" throughout the book.

But I like anything that makes me feel closer to what the BB think is important to know about them.



Anybody else have a chance to read it yet?

Are you serious? He may "change his story" depending on the interviewer and level of comfort, but this is 100% Brian, and this is how he really feels. Do you know otherwise? Are you actually Professor Ben Greenman?
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« Reply #79 on: October 13, 2016, 03:57:47 PM »

agree completely......never said otherwise.....100% Brian....100% real, but such a vast heart reserves the right to say and feel what he wishes when asked.....his feelings, always real, evolve.  Just try asking what his favorite album is.....as someone said, his answer always changes but is always, at that moment, "true."

my comment was not at all negative. Read more Derrida. . .

Brian conveys knowledge non-discursively; I was just remarking on the way the book expresses the diffuseness and the flow of oblique memories and reactions:  I fail at expressing it well: it's just, as you say, uniquely 100% "Brian"--no other word for it.



Yeah, it's "different" for sure. Since BW changes his stories and his emotional reactions, printing a book of what he said (and meant) is impossible. One could re-write such a book every day. So for those who were "waiting to see what BW says" to settle some issues and reveal the truth about things ML lied about, well, let that go because there is very little detailed discursive history. It's more a set of emotional reactions to things remembered in the past. . .somewhat Proustian perhaps. At one point B tells the story of the first record and , rather like a Deconstructionist, argues that he feels like the story is being told to him rather than that he is telling it. All this is delightful and very Brian, and obviously very Derridean. So all in all the books reveals how BW could very well be feeling about particular topics at some one point in time when interviewed.  One can read it for the free play of his mind at work but surely not as a historical source, which I imagine it it not really intended to be.  BW's feelings and impressions are of historical value in themselves. The history recorded here is personal, impressionistic, and perhaps ML's is the same, though that book proceeded rationally and chronologically.  What I prefer about Mike's book is the thematic coherence--how he and his co-writer weave the themes of the "switchblade and the butterfly" throughout the book.

But I like anything that makes me feel closer to what the BB think is important to know about them.



Anybody else have a chance to read it yet?

Are you serious? He may "change his story" depending on the interviewer and level of comfort, but this is 100% Brian, and this is how he really feels. Do you know otherwise? Are you actually Professor Ben Greenman?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 04:02:28 PM by the professor » Logged
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« Reply #80 on: October 13, 2016, 05:31:20 PM »

A few things that have stuck out for me so far:

-Very surprised to hear Brian say that he was unsure of the direction that "Imagination" was going and felt that at times it was more Joe Thomas' album than his. He generally praises Joe but that was interesting. 

-Unlike others here, I never thought "The Last Song" was about the C50 tour ending. I always felt if that were true it kind of cheapened the song. I figured I was correct. Brian says the song is about wondering if every album he makes is going to be the last one given his age. Powerful stuff and helps me to reexamine and re-appreciate that song in a new way. 

-The whole story about Murray forcing Brian to sh** on a plate is turned on its head. In Brian's version he purposely did it and handed the plate to his father saying "Here's your dinner" just to get back at him for numerous offenses. 
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« Reply #81 on: October 13, 2016, 06:15:30 PM »

A few things that have stuck out for me so far:

-Very surprised to hear Brian say that he was unsure of the direction that "Imagination" was going and felt that at times it was more Joe Thomas' album than his. He generally praises Joe but that was interesting. 

-Unlike others here, I never thought "The Last Song" was about the C50 tour ending. I always felt if that were true it kind of cheapened the song. I figured I was correct. Brian says the song is about wondering if every album he makes is going to be the last one given his age. Powerful stuff and helps me to reexamine and re-appreciate that song in a new way. 

-The whole story about Murray forcing Brian to sh** on a plate is turned on its head. In Brian's version he purposely did it and handed the plate to his father saying "Here's your dinner" just to get back at him for numerous offenses. 


He also mentioned Thomas remixing and adding stuff to "Everything I Need" as well
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« Reply #82 on: October 13, 2016, 06:36:11 PM »

A few things that have stuck out for me so far:

-Very surprised to hear Brian say that he was unsure of the direction that "Imagination" was going and felt that at times it was more Joe Thomas' album than his. He generally praises Joe but that was interesting. 

-Unlike others here, I never thought "The Last Song" was about the C50 tour ending. I always felt if that were true it kind of cheapened the song. I figured I was correct. Brian says the song is about wondering if every album he makes is going to be the last one given his age. Powerful stuff and helps me to reexamine and re-appreciate that song in a new way. 

-The whole story about Murray forcing Brian to sh** on a plate is turned on its head. In Brian's version he purposely did it and handed the plate to his father saying "Here's your dinner" just to get back at him for numerous offenses. 


He also mentioned Thomas remixing and adding stuff to "Everything I Need" as well

Not a surprise. Thomas seems to like to add little acoustic guitar riffs throughout Brian's songs. That would be alright but most of the time they don't really seem so gel well. Everything I need is another example of that as is most of Imagination album.
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« Reply #83 on: October 13, 2016, 06:39:16 PM »

I don't get my copy until next week.

*sad face*

Good to hear the generally good reviews.
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« Reply #84 on: October 13, 2016, 06:43:50 PM »

A few things that have stuck out for me so far:

-Very surprised to hear Brian say that he was unsure of the direction that "Imagination" was going and felt that at times it was more Joe Thomas' album than his. He generally praises Joe but that was interesting. 

-Unlike others here, I never thought "The Last Song" was about the C50 tour ending. I always felt if that were true it kind of cheapened the song. I figured I was correct. Brian says the song is about wondering if every album he makes is going to be the last one given his age. Powerful stuff and helps me to reexamine and re-appreciate that song in a new way. 

-The whole story about Murray forcing Brian to sh** on a plate is turned on its head. In Brian's version he purposely did it and handed the plate to his father saying "Here's your dinner" just to get back at him for numerous offenses. 


He also mentioned Thomas remixing and adding stuff to "Everything I Need" as well

Yeah, that was for the version that wound up on The Wilsons album, right? I was surprised at that because it seemed to me that he loves working with Joe. I'm an "Imagination" apologist. It my #2 favorite solo album from Brian.  Smiley
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« Reply #85 on: October 13, 2016, 07:50:03 PM »

Are you serious? He may "change his story" depending on the interviewer and level of comfort, but this is 100% Brian, and this is how he really feels. Do you know otherwise? Are you actually Professor Ben Greenman?
...except, of course, as we ALL know... neither 'He Gives Speeches', nor 'She's Going Bald', nor anything like EITHER composition, made it IN to SMiLE in 2004, either in the live stage performances, or in the recorded album. The only place He Gives Speeches appears at all is, as we would expect, on the SMiLE Sessions box set... and of course there it's the historical late summer 1966 recording, for which nothing needed to be recreated at all!.

Yeah, it's definitely not Brian talking about "He Gives Speeches" there, so we can put away the absurd "100% real Brian" figure. Greenman obviously made an error while he was padding out the book with factoids from Wikipedia.

Let's be realistic, there is no denying that paragraphs like:

"I wasn’t at the center of the band anymore. Some people will say that I pulled away from the center. Some people will say that I was pushed away. Maybe it was a little bit of both. I’m not sure. What I’m sure of is that all the guys in the band had different ideas about what kind of music to release, how to go onstage and perform our songs, when we should repeat ourselves and when we should try new things."

...was edited from this kind of interview:

Greenman: Were you still at the center of the band?
Brian: No.
Greenman: Did you pull away from the group, or were you pushed out?
Brian: I'm not sure. A little bit of both.
Greenman: I read that everyone in the band had different ideas on what direction to go in.
Brian: Yeah.
Greenman: What did they disagree on?
Brian: Things like what kind of music to release, how to go onstage and perform our songs, when we should repeat ourselves and when we should try new things.


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« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2016, 07:50:23 PM »

I have the book, lot's of emotion.
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« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2016, 07:56:23 PM »

Are you serious? He may "change his story" depending on the interviewer and level of comfort, but this is 100% Brian, and this is how he really feels. Do you know otherwise? Are you actually Professor Ben Greenman?
...except, of course, as we ALL know... neither 'He Gives Speeches', nor 'She's Going Bald', nor anything like EITHER composition, made it IN to SMiLE in 2004, either in the live stage performances, or in the recorded album. The only place He Gives Speeches appears at all is, as we would expect, on the SMiLE Sessions box set... and of course there it's the historical late summer 1966 recording, for which nothing needed to be recreated at all!.

Yeah, it's definitely not Brian talking about "He Gives Speeches" there, so we can put away the absurd "100% real Brian" figure. Greenman obviously made an error while he was padding out the book with factoids from Wikipedia.

Let's be realistic, there is no denying that paragraphs like:

"I wasn’t at the center of the band anymore. Some people will say that I pulled away from the center. Some people will say that I was pushed away. Maybe it was a little bit of both. I’m not sure. What I’m sure of is that all the guys in the band had different ideas about what kind of music to release, how to go onstage and perform our songs, when we should repeat ourselves and when we should try new things."

...was edited from this kind of interview:

Greenman: Were you still at the center of the band?
Brian: No.
Greenman: Did you pull away from the group, or were you pushed out?
Brian: I'm not sure. A little bit of both.
Greenman: I read that everyone in the band had different ideas on what direction to go in.
Brian: Yeah.
Greenman: What did they disagree on?
Brian: Things like what kind of music to release, how to go onstage and perform our songs, when we should repeat ourselves and when we should try new things.




Actually it was referring to He Gives Speeches, but appears like something got missed in the editing .


Were you there during the discussions between Brian or Greenman,  or talked to anyone who has?
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« Reply #88 on: October 13, 2016, 08:13:28 PM »

Are you serious? He may "change his story" depending on the interviewer and level of comfort, but this is 100% Brian, and this is how he really feels. Do you know otherwise? Are you actually Professor Ben Greenman?
...except, of course, as we ALL know... neither 'He Gives Speeches', nor 'She's Going Bald', nor anything like EITHER composition, made it IN to SMiLE in 2004, either in the live stage performances, or in the recorded album. The only place He Gives Speeches appears at all is, as we would expect, on the SMiLE Sessions box set... and of course there it's the historical late summer 1966 recording, for which nothing needed to be recreated at all!.

Yeah, it's definitely not Brian talking about "He Gives Speeches" there, so we can put away the absurd "100% real Brian" figure. Greenman obviously made an error while he was padding out the book with factoids from Wikipedia.

Let's be realistic, there is no denying that paragraphs like:

"I wasn’t at the center of the band anymore. Some people will say that I pulled away from the center. Some people will say that I was pushed away. Maybe it was a little bit of both. I’m not sure. What I’m sure of is that all the guys in the band had different ideas about what kind of music to release, how to go onstage and perform our songs, when we should repeat ourselves and when we should try new things."

...was edited from this kind of interview:

Greenman: Were you still at the center of the band?
Brian: No.
Greenman: Did you pull away from the group, or were you pushed out?
Brian: I'm not sure. A little bit of both.
Greenman: I read that everyone in the band had different ideas on what direction to go in.
Brian: Yeah.
Greenman: What did they disagree on?
Brian: Things like what kind of music to release, how to go onstage and perform our songs, when we should repeat ourselves and when we should try new things.




Actually it was referring to He Gives Speeches, but appears like something got missed in the editing .


Were you there during the discussions between Brian or Greenman,  or talked to anyone who has?

Of course he wasn't there. Yet talks as if he were.

Let's be realistic. Right. Invent some more interviews that never happened.

I'll address Speeches/Goin Bald in a bit.

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« Reply #89 on: October 13, 2016, 08:20:10 PM »

Are you serious? He may "change his story" depending on the interviewer and level of comfort, but this is 100% Brian, and this is how he really feels. Do you know otherwise? Are you actually Professor Ben Greenman?
...except, of course, as we ALL know... neither 'He Gives Speeches', nor 'She's Going Bald', nor anything like EITHER composition, made it IN to SMiLE in 2004, either in the live stage performances, or in the recorded album. The only place He Gives Speeches appears at all is, as we would expect, on the SMiLE Sessions box set... and of course there it's the historical late summer 1966 recording, for which nothing needed to be recreated at all!.

Yeah, it's definitely not Brian talking about "He Gives Speeches" there, so we can put away the absurd "100% real Brian" figure. Greenman obviously made an error while he was padding out the book with factoids from Wikipedia.

Let's be realistic, there is no denying that paragraphs like:

"I wasn’t at the center of the band anymore. Some people will say that I pulled away from the center. Some people will say that I was pushed away. Maybe it was a little bit of both. I’m not sure. What I’m sure of is that all the guys in the band had different ideas about what kind of music to release, how to go onstage and perform our songs, when we should repeat ourselves and when we should try new things."

...was edited from this kind of interview:

Greenman: Were you still at the center of the band?
Brian: No.
Greenman: Did you pull away from the group, or were you pushed out?
Brian: I'm not sure. A little bit of both.
Greenman: I read that everyone in the band had different ideas on what direction to go in.
Brian: Yeah.
Greenman: What did they disagree on?
Brian: Things like what kind of music to release, how to go onstage and perform our songs, when we should repeat ourselves and when we should try new things.



Just a question and it wont take long to answer. How do you determine something is not Brian? Do you have  a preconceived perception and then SEARCH for substantiation? There is a lot of that doing the rounds at the moment. Do you have a check list with 3 columns? Brian- Not Brian- Not sure?

One thing is 100% certain, we all know when Mike is Mike. Because he usually comes across a complete insensitive, egotistical and repugnant wanker.
So by my perception of Mike, everytime something he says sounds nice and supportive, it's 'not Mike'.
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« Reply #90 on: October 13, 2016, 09:15:43 PM »

Love, love, love the book, very emotional. In a weird way, it kind of reminds me of The Godfather Part II, where Michael Corleone is sitting in a chair and pondering what had taken place in that movie. In Brian's book, the chair in his house is the setting of the beginning of several chapters, and the flashbacks take off from there.
A couple of nitpicks:
IIRC, Brian seems to say he played Seattle in '70 after playing the Whiskey-A-Go-Go, but the latter was later in '70.
Brian (or his author) also seems to think the Dixie Cups' Chapel of Love was produced by Phil Spector, but AFAIK, Spector had nothing to do with anything on the Red Bird/Blue Cat labels. He also writes that Spector produced the original Talk To Me, covered on 15 Big Ones. Did he?
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« Reply #91 on: October 13, 2016, 09:21:39 PM »

Given the hoo-ha here over Mike's 'locker room' comment in his book, no mention yet about Brian's request to Carolyn that I just read.

A little disappointed in the big guy for that one.
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« Reply #92 on: October 13, 2016, 09:24:16 PM »

Given the hoo-ha here over Mike's 'locker room' comment in his book, no mention yet about Brian's request to Carolyn that I just read.

A little disappointed in the big guy for that one.

In all fairness, Brian was disappointed in himself for that one too, and admits as much.
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« Reply #93 on: October 13, 2016, 09:49:45 PM »

Speaking of a "hand on a leg"...RE: Gene Landy putting his hand on Brian's leg to find out if Brian was attracted to a woman? I wish I had never read that. Damn scumbag.
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« Reply #94 on: October 13, 2016, 09:59:21 PM »

Speaking of a "hand on a leg"...RE: Gene Landy putting his hand on Brian's leg to find out if Brian was attracted to a woman? I wish I had never read that. Damn scumbag.

Even worse...the exact wording stated that he did it to see if Brian was still attracted to people .
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« Reply #95 on: October 13, 2016, 10:35:00 PM »

I got the book a few days ago.
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« Reply #96 on: October 13, 2016, 11:04:38 PM »

How far have you made  it into the book?
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« Reply #97 on: October 14, 2016, 07:04:43 AM »

The part in chapter 1 where Brian calls Jeopardy! the "same bullshit everyday" had me laughing out loud. 
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« Reply #98 on: October 14, 2016, 07:27:30 AM »

Given the hoo-ha here over Mike's 'locker room' comment in his book, no mention yet about Brian's request to Carolyn that I just read.

A little disappointed in the big guy for that one.

Well, I think in both cases a certain baseline of consideration should be given to their voluntarily admitting to these stories.

But I also think in Brian's book, he immediately frames it as an unfortunate comment and attitude on his part. Whereas, while I don't have the quote in front of me, Mike's book seems to try to defend Mike's comment to some degree.
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« Reply #99 on: October 14, 2016, 07:31:07 AM »

Regarding Joe Thomas, I think the disparity between how he seems to like Joe but has some level of misgivings about musical direction highlights the idea that Brian likes Joe as a person probably first and foremost. I've always sensed he finds it easy to work with Joe on an interpersonal level, and also a functional level.

I've long said that the thing Joe Thomas has always brought the to table it is the ability (or luck) to be someone who Brian likes to work with, and who can aid Brian in completing projects. Thomas has mentioned in interviews that while he's obviously a huge fan of Brian and the BBs, he doesn't nerd out on Brian (like, say, Mark Hudson did with Ringo Starr for instance) and fawn over every little thing, and I do think Brian likes that. I also think Joe just seems to have a sort of low key, soothing personality in working with Brian that Brian likes.
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