-->
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 15, 2017, 05:57:22 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
News: peteramescarlin.com
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  The Smiley Smile Message Board
|-+  Non Smiley Smile Stuff
| |-+  The Sandbox
| | |-+  NBA 2017 Topic
Pages: 1 ... 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 21   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: NBA 2017 Topic  (Read 27365 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7676



View Profile
« Reply #450 on: August 31, 2017, 12:08:37 PM »

East will be interesting this year!
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 12:10:46 PM by SMiLE Brian » Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #451 on: August 31, 2017, 12:13:28 PM »

It should be. Cleveland really got the better of that trade, in my opinion (especially now with yet another pick, even if only a 2nd), and finally are moving toward a post-Lebron vision. They hemorrhaged draft picks since he planned his return, and in doubling down, used them to sign oldsters who are off the team, out of the league, or at the end of the bench. The Brooklyn pick and now this second rounder, plus a reasonably priced Crowder, make it a great deal no matter what.

Boston will be right up there again this year.

Toronto, Miami, Washington should all be competitive.

After that I don't know what's going to happen.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7676



View Profile
« Reply #452 on: August 31, 2017, 12:18:05 PM »

I am worried about the health of Thomas, the Cavs have this year to win before the window closes and those draft picks are used for a rebuild.

Bulls are talking about buying out Wade so I guess I will root for the Wizards this year. Its about time Washington had some success on the level of the 1970s era Bullets again.
Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #453 on: August 31, 2017, 12:35:33 PM »

I don't think Thomas matters much to the Cavs, to be honest, especially if Derrick Rose can be healthy enough to be a consistent factor. Their main need from a PG is someone who defends PGs (which Kyrie chose not to try to do), because Lebron plays PG on offense when he's in the game. So they need a backup PG who can run the show, but mostly just need somebody competent to defend. Ideally, that person could also shoot the ball, because a spot-up shooting PG would be better with Lebron than a Kyrie (or Isaiah). If I were them I'd actually try to find a 3-and-D kind of 6-2 guard. The guy could be a minimum-salary guy. He'd be fine.

The second unit could be Derrick Rose and Kevin Love scoring the points.

As for the Bulls, I think they'd be foolish not to get rid of Wade. I think he's more harm than good, frankly. Nobody needs a half-broken, big-mouthed former superstar playing the role of the angry old man yelling at kids going on his lawn. He'd have some more authority if he had gotten around to learning to shoot the ball sometime in the past 15 years. It's not like it wasn't an obvious flaw in his game, and something that would be more and more valuable to him as his athleticism and gung-ho style faded with time. They're obviously fully rebuilding now, so keeping somebody like him would do nothing for their future. (It might sell some tickets yet around Chicago, I don't know. But ick.) That team is a train wreck regardless.

Washington is going to be interesting. I could imagine them competing for a second seed, or falling out of the top four.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7676



View Profile
« Reply #454 on: August 31, 2017, 01:12:49 PM »

Agreed on the Wade buyout, guy isn't aging gracefully....

Wall and Beal are studs that deserve big money, not sure about Porter's deal.
Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #455 on: August 31, 2017, 01:17:33 PM »

That's the thing about the NBA: sometimes it's not a matter of how much a guy seems objectively to be worth, but how much some other team might pay him (and both Sacramento and Brooklyn offered him max), and then what your backup plan is. Washington was over the cap, so their options for a replacement were limited. Not sure whether they had their midlevel to use, but even if they did, there wasn't anyone of Porter's caliber for that. That exact scenario is the reason we have an increasing disparity in the league: max or near-max guys, then midlevel and minimum guys. Very little in terms of that middle class.

I like Porter. But not that much. But is Oubre ready for 30 mpg as a starting wing? Or Satoransky (who wants to play PG anyway)? I'd say no.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7676



View Profile
« Reply #456 on: August 31, 2017, 01:43:34 PM »

What do you think of Wiggins firing his agent on the verge of a huge deal in Minnesota?
Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #457 on: August 31, 2017, 01:47:29 PM »

Bizarre. Obviously it can't be about the contract itself, so my only assumptions would be a) endorsement related stuff; b) personality stuff?; or c) he wanted to be signed-and-traded or something, and that didn't get done. (Total speculation.) But really, how upset can you be when your agent negotiates a max deal?
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7676



View Profile
« Reply #458 on: August 31, 2017, 01:57:22 PM »

None, I would take it in a heartbeat. You send in your resume to Wiggins? Wink
Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
B.E.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 349


View Profile
« Reply #459 on: August 31, 2017, 03:00:46 PM »

East will be interesting this year!

I hope so, but I'm not optimistic. Most of my interest is out west. Houston acquiring Chris Paul (and possibly Melo), New Orleans trading for Cousins, re-signing J. Holiday, and signing Rondo. OKC acquiring Paul George. MIN acquiring J. Butler. The West got better at the expense of the East. Paul Millsap was also traded out west (Denver). The BOS/CLE dynamic is interesting. I agree that CLE won that trade, but did they get any closer to defeating the GSW? I'm more interested to see how good the Celtics can be with Irving and Hayward. I really thought the East was gaining on the West a little bit in recent years (from top to bottom), but this off-season destroyed that. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm completely sold on the 16-seed playoff bracket. Just do away with the conferences. It's actually starting to bother me that that's not how it's done. I think the last few years have been terrible, from that perspective.

MIN: From afar it seemed like Rubio's time in MIN was up, but after LaVine and Dunn were traded to Chicago I thought they might keep him. So, I was surprised to see him traded to Utah like that. Then, shortly thereafter, they sign J. Teague and it made sense, but I'm still not sold on it. Yeah, he's a better shooter, but I don't think I would have made that move. Other than that, it's a great time to be a Wolves fan!

NY? Are we finally, truly embracing a rebuild? That'd be nice. Our PG position is so weak that 19-year old Frank Ntilikina could potentially start at some point this season. Just play the young guys! Develop them... I really hope the Knicks weren't bidding against themselves for Hardaway Jr, but I think they were. Even factoring in that he was a RFA, they couldn't have signed him for $1-2M/yr less?


Random thoughts:
-Wow, Spurs got Rudy Gay on the cheap!
-So, the Knicks decide to dump Phil, but wait til just after the draft? Odd.
-Pat Riley's idea that the lottery teams should play a mini-playoff to determine draft picks sure sounds entertaining! Problematic, but interesting nonetheless.
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #460 on: August 31, 2017, 03:53:46 PM »

Lots of good stuff, B.E.

Regarding the East, the thing is, regardless of how many good teams are out West, only one can make the Finals. So just being competitive in the East matters a lot because, as we saw in 15-16, sometimes the lesser team wins. Someone is hurt, or someone is suspended for kicking people in the nuts, and you've got yourself a series. So I can understand Eastern teams just thinking Eastern positioning ... as if they could compete outright with GS anyway. It's impossible without a full-on miracle in the short term.

I think you're overrating some of those moves in the West, though. New Orleans is going to be a mess with two ball-dominant posts, almost literally zero wings, one good but injury prone PG, and one PG who refuses to shoot and is moody to boot. Rudy Gay might be the most un-Spurslike player ever, except maybe Lamarcus Aldridge, and they won't have Tony Parker for most of the year (and may never get him back anywhere near the guy he was). They'll be back, but this year? Seems like a stretch. Denver, though, I do think will be really good. Houston, I'm curious how those two guards co-exist.

Rubio ... well, the Jazz may be my favorite team by midseason depending on how things go. I thought that was a terrible, terrible decision.

New York ... good luck! At least you've still got Zinger, Hernangomez, and Kuzminskas. And maybe Ntkitilina will turn out to be good. As for Hardaway, sorry, but that was way, way more than anyone else was offering by all accounts. Forget $1-2m a year less, they could have had him for 75% or less of that number. He's a nice player. But still. It's like the Noah signing the year before. New York just can't see any money in their accounts, apparently, and insist upon spending it IMMEDIATELY.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #461 on: August 31, 2017, 04:00:09 PM »

OK, waiting for details here, but I'm confused. Bulls trading with New Orleans so Chicago gets Quincy Pondexter, a 2nd rounder, and cash. I don't know what, if anything, NO is getting. (They have to get something, even if the stuff is absorbed into cap space, so presumably a pick or rights to a foreign player?)

It gives New Orleans a lower payroll but I think they're still well over the cap, so I'm not sure what good it actually does. Maybe they still have their midlevel and can now use that without going into the luxury tax (which they were near)? I guess if you want to move Pondexter and sign, say, Shabazz Muhammad, that's something. But that's quite a price for any shooters or wings on the market right now.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
B.E.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 349


View Profile
« Reply #462 on: August 31, 2017, 05:40:43 PM »

Regarding the East, the thing is, regardless of how many good teams are out West, only one can make the Finals. So just being competitive in the East matters a lot because, as we saw in 15-16, sometimes the lesser team wins. Someone is hurt, or someone is suspended for kicking people in the nuts, and you've got yourself a series. So I can understand Eastern teams just thinking Eastern positioning ... as if they could compete outright with GS anyway. It's impossible without a full-on miracle in the short term.

I think you're overrating some of those moves in the West, though. New Orleans is going to be a mess with two ball-dominant posts, almost literally zero wings, one good but injury prone PG, and one PG who refuses to shoot and is moody to boot. Rudy Gay might be the most un-Spurslike player ever, except maybe Lamarcus Aldridge, and they won't have Tony Parker for most of the year (and may never get him back anywhere near the guy he was). They'll be back, but this year? Seems like a stretch. Denver, though, I do think will be really good. Houston, I'm curious how those two guards co-exist.

Yeah, you're right about the East, and in that sense it will always be interesting, but it would be far more interesting to me if there was more parity between the conferences.

In regard to those transactions, I share your skepticism. It's not so much that I think they are or aren't great moves, but fascinating ones. I'm very interested to see how it plays out! For better or worse. Particularly, Paul/Harden in HOU. I just hate to see the East lose franchise players to the West. I'm surprised that more all-stars weren't interested in escaping the West for the East. It has served LeBron well  Grin.

I'm not too worried about the Spurs PG situation. I think losing Simmons hurts and I'm still not thrilled with Aldridge (at times I hate him/want to trade him). Though, did you see what the Spurs were doing to GS before Kawhi got hurt (and that was without Parker)? I can see the Spurs losing a few more games this year (I expect it, perhaps more than a few), but they'll still be a top 3 seed.

Rubio ... well, the Jazz may be my favorite team by midseason depending on how things go. I thought that was a terrible, terrible decision.

I had a feeling you wouldn't like it!

How much does losing Hayward hurt the Jazz? I'd think it would hurt a lot. Too bad, because I really liked what they had going. I hated to see Gobert get injured in the playoffs.

New York ... good luck! At least you've still got Zinger, Hernangomez, and Kuzminskas. And maybe Ntkitilina will turn out to be good. As for Hardaway, sorry, but that was way, way more than anyone else was offering by all accounts. Forget $1-2m a year less, they could have had him for 75% or less of that number. He's a nice player. But still. It's like the Noah signing the year before. New York just can't see any money in their accounts, apparently, and insist upon spending it IMMEDIATELY.

I think trading Hardaway Jr was one of the first things Phil did, so clearly Steve Mills and others in the Knicks organization disagreed. Honestly, I think Atlanta matches at 75%. He played really well as a starter after the all-star break. Still, at THAT price tag, the Knicks gotta show some f*cking restraint LOL It's a move in the right direction from the Noah signing though, isn't it? ...it could work out. Possibly.
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #463 on: September 01, 2017, 07:02:56 AM »

I'd like to add a few thoughts on the Spurs and Jazz.

Spurs
I do think PG is going to be somewhat of an issue--or at least could be. Patty Mills is back, but he's really an off-guard in a point guard's body. Ginobili has historically played most of those minutes together, and taken more of the creative role, but even though Manu is back, how many minutes can he play at age 500 (or whatever he is)? Kawhi is great--like, REALLY great--but he isn't really a Lebron-style creator from the forward, either. Or at least he hasn't been so far, though with his ongoing improvement, I'd never count him out. Pau passes well from the 4/5 spots, but obviously that's no solution.

It might end up that they count heavily on Dejounte Murray, or even rookie Derrick White. And neither of those seems like a safe bet, even though both seem like projects well worth investing in. (I read a quote that one Spurs staffer said he thinks Murray has the talent to be the best Spurs PG ever, which is no small thing for a franchise that's had Wes Matthews, Rod Strickland, Avery Johnson, Tony Parker...

Jazz
I'm not sure how much losing Hayward hurts them. I mean, he's a great player. But if they're healthy, they have several guys who all seemingly could take more. Alec Burks was one heck of a player before being hurt the bulk of the past couple years. Rodney Hood may well turn out to be 80% or more the player Hayward is. Dante Exum is super talented, though he hasn't consistently shown much. The rookie guard, Donovan Mitchell, is really highly regarded as a pretty complete player and a good athlete, too. Joe Johnson is still around and can help out.

Maybe their best development is that while they lose a playmaker, they gain Rubio, who is a great option to make sure everyone else has a chance to show their best. And defensively, they're going to be interesting: Rubio will probably be allowed more freedom to gamble, considering the Gobert line of defense behind him. I don't expect the Jazz to fall off much, if at all. They'll just do it differently.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7676



View Profile
« Reply #464 on: September 11, 2017, 11:43:54 AM »

Cap playing NBA Jam to warm up for the season?
Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #465 on: September 11, 2017, 11:52:16 AM »

I don't think I've played a video game since the late 90s.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
SurfRapGrungeFiend
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 116



View Profile
« Reply #466 on: September 14, 2017, 12:34:49 PM »

I am worried about the health of Thomas, the Cavs have this year to win before the window closes and those draft picks are used for a rebuild.

Bulls are talking about buying out Wade so I guess I will root for the Wizards this year. Its about time Washington had some success on the level of the 1970s era Bullets again.

Washington is fun to watch, seen them 3 times since '10 basically since their tickets are the cheapest next to the pistons at the Q when i mean cheap its the lower end of mid-level Grin

Not worried about lebron leaving when he already said Clevelands where he'll finish his career, LA cant stand that a shithole city Cleveland aka  'the dumpster fire' as LA laker fans say religiously has a better team than them. Hes gonna buy the cavs and move'em to Akron dont ya know




Logged

Surf music, Old school rap and The Seattle Sound

DJ Paul- Hi, I'm Chucky

Danny Greene and the Celtic Club

"I have no axe to grind, but if these maggots in this so-called Mafia want to come after me, I'm over here by the Celtic Club. I'm not hard to find'
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #467 on: September 14, 2017, 12:38:00 PM »

I'll be surprised if Lebron doesn't play for (at least) one more franchise before he retires.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
SurfRapGrungeFiend
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 116



View Profile
« Reply #468 on: September 14, 2017, 01:13:47 PM »

4 finals 07,15,16,17 and the only championship for Cleveland since 1964. He said 1 championship and he delivered it, id rather see any team but BOS, GSW, or Lakers get Lebron on their team.

something about LA especially this past summer really gets me with just these ignorant people thinking small markets arent 'good' enough for superstar athletes the same is being said for OKC and how westbrook and paul george are too good to play in Oklahoma.
Logged

Surf music, Old school rap and The Seattle Sound

DJ Paul- Hi, I'm Chucky

Danny Greene and the Celtic Club

"I have no axe to grind, but if these maggots in this so-called Mafia want to come after me, I'm over here by the Celtic Club. I'm not hard to find'
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7676



View Profile
« Reply #469 on: September 14, 2017, 01:27:26 PM »

I'll be surprised if Lebron doesn't play for (at least) one more franchise before he retires.
Lavar Ball is calling.... Roll Eyes
Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7676



View Profile
« Reply #470 on: September 14, 2017, 01:29:51 PM »

4 finals 07,15,16,17 and the only championship for Cleveland since 1964. He said 1 championship and he delivered it, id rather see any team but BOS, GSW, or Lakers get Lebron on their team.

something about LA especially this past summer really gets me with just these ignorant people thinking small markets arent 'good' enough for superstar athletes the same is being said for OKC and how westbrook and paul george are too good to play in Oklahoma.

Hell, Chicago is isn't good enough.... Undecided
Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
SurfRapGrungeFiend
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 116



View Profile
« Reply #471 on: September 14, 2017, 02:05:53 PM »

Thats a surprise too since Chicago is the 'Big City' of the great lakes, seems when d.rose tore his ACL MVP season nothing has gone right for the bulls.. just for laughs https://youtu.be/Vpr_KaaRjW0
Logged

Surf music, Old school rap and The Seattle Sound

DJ Paul- Hi, I'm Chucky

Danny Greene and the Celtic Club

"I have no axe to grind, but if these maggots in this so-called Mafia want to come after me, I'm over here by the Celtic Club. I'm not hard to find'
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #472 on: September 14, 2017, 02:58:35 PM »

4 finals 07,15,16,17 and the only championship for Cleveland since 1964. He said 1 championship and he delivered it, id rather see any team but BOS, GSW, or Lakers get Lebron on their team.

something about LA especially this past summer really gets me with just these ignorant people thinking small markets arent 'good' enough for superstar athletes the same is being said for OKC and how westbrook and paul george are too good to play in Oklahoma.


I'm in a small market, so that's not it from my perspective. And frankly I don't care where Lebron plays. But I'm just saying, that franchise has basically mortgaged its future by building the team that surrounds Lebron now. Pick after pick after pick dealt away to acquire old players: Mike Miller, Kyle Korver, Deron Williams, Channing Frye, Richard Jefferson. That's my point. The team's salary cap situation was TERRIBLE, and is better but still not great now since the Kyrie trade. Lastly, Lebron by all accounts hates--hates--the owner. I think he's going to LA or NY, personally. But we'll see.

If the Cavs are smart in long-term basketball terms, they let Lebron go, let Isaiah go (rather than sign him to a massive deal), try to get picks for Love, and start over. And most importantly, they don't fire their GM and coach every other year and instead commit to a program.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
B.E.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 349


View Profile
« Reply #473 on: September 24, 2017, 10:07:47 AM »

Finally, Melo's been traded! Anyone else find it amusing that he both waived and retained his 'no trade' clause? Or that there were discussions with CLE involving Shumpert/Frye and HOU involving Ariza? -all former Knicks Huh

Anyway, the West just keeps getting better. I can't wait for the season to start! I'm starting to think that GS will not make it back to the Finals next year.

As a Knicks fan, I'm happy. It feels like we are truly rebuilding (even if Noah's still on the books, for now). I'm looking forward to (occassionally) watching the young players develop and locking up that top 3 draft pick! LOL
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 11:21:58 AM by B.E. » Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #474 on: September 24, 2017, 02:14:25 PM »

It's a shame for the fans how much the front office bungled the past year or two, resulting in the need to take solace in two role players and a 2nd rounder for Melo. But when everyone knows you're desperate, you have no leverage.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
Pages: 1 ... 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 21   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.075 seconds with 22 queries.