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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #275 on: February 14, 2017, 08:51:32 AM »

Lets talk about this year's league with my bulls with alpha male Rondo and Wade leading the way to disaster! Undecided
Yeah...
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #276 on: February 14, 2017, 02:13:10 PM »

Memories.....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kirk-Hinrich-Ben-Gordon-Chicago-Bulls-Poster-16-X-20-Glossy-Posterboard-NBA-2005-/262821052237?hash=item3d315aff4d:g:T58AAOSwDk5TwiZl
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #277 on: February 14, 2017, 05:03:24 PM »

I see the MJ #12 jersey is for sale at the bulls website

Cavs at wolves tonight
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« Reply #278 on: February 17, 2017, 08:09:53 AM »

Bulls win! Wink
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
the captain
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« Reply #279 on: February 17, 2017, 08:19:59 AM »

Getting Jimmy Butler back on the court can work wonders...

While I don't expect a blockbuster, I think the Bulls could be interesting as we approach the trade deadline. Just checking last night's box reminds me how little sense this team makes. You've got Butler playing 40 minutes and taking 20 shots, you've got Robin Lopez, Rajon Rondo, Taj Gibson in still-key roles ... but then you're starting MCW and Jerian Grant? You're heavily relying on Bobby Portis and Cristiano Felicio, and even getting Denzel Valentine in there? It's like two mini-teams make the roster. If it were me, I'd either try to get a more competitive roster that's, say, 2/3 or 3/4 prime-career guys, or try to get a more up-and-coming roster that's the opposite of that, 2/3 to 3/4 young and talented with a few vets there for stability and good examples. But this, it's just neither one. They aren't good now, they don't look like they'll be good later, and nobody's happy.
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« Reply #280 on: February 17, 2017, 08:23:41 AM »

It's the hell the 76ers were in before Sam Hinkie and the process. I want the Bulls to have a top to down rebuild under new management that doesn't attack coaches and spies on players. Though I will pass on Hinkie...
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
the captain
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« Reply #281 on: February 17, 2017, 08:49:53 AM »

I have given a ton of thought to what a middling team can and should do ... and so far I've come up with "I dunno, it depends." It depends on where they've been, what they've got in the pipeline, who's leading in the front office, who's leading on the sidelines, who are the best players, who are the best talents.

The 76ers before Hinkie were mostly a young veteran team prior to Hinkie. In Doug Collins's last season in charge, they were led by Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner, Thad Young, Spencer Hawes, and Nick Young--all 5-year vets at the time--as well as 11-year vet Jason Richardson. The challenge there wasn't so much a dual-roster, but a somewhat unified roster that couldn't get substantially better: nobody was, and nobody was going to become, a true #1 option, a true star. So they really did have to ask the question of whether they were better off competing for a bottom-four seed every year or swinging for the fences (which can only really be done with high picks which requires full tanking). We know which direction they went.

The Bulls aren't in that position because their roster doesn't have that same issue: they have two rosters, almost, as I said before. But more than that, they have a front-office chosen head coach who favors a style that clashes with two of its major free agent acquisitions (Rondo and Wade). They have a roster heavy on power forwards and point guards without a standout at either spot. And they have a front office that nobody on the roster trusts, based on the past few weeks' reporting, anyway. But they do have a true star, a guy who is legitimately in that top 10 or 15 overall in the league, and who might be the best shooting guard in basketball. Butler is way better than anyone Philly had at the end of the Doug Collins era.

What they share is the general position / end result: they are currently in that middling, about .500 range.

The question is, can the Bulls get better without getting substantially worse? And if they do have to / choose to get substantially worse, will the fan base tolerate it, yet another full rebuild, especially considering the debacle of the late 90s through the drafting of Derrick Rose, basically? I would have said yes, they for sure could get better without getting worse ... but then they spent the money they spent this offseason. And that did not help. Even though I believe there is a legit chance to be rid of both this offseason, have they done more damage to the guys they already have by wasting the year? And can they make decisions elsewhere that help Hoiberg (or replace Hoiberg)?

Player development from this regime has been bad. Mirotic, Portis, McDermott...are they getting much better than where they were a couple years ago? Drafting has been questionable.

I don't know. I think the team could probably make something happen, maybe even without moving Butler. But I don't have any faith in this front office to get it done.
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« Reply #282 on: February 17, 2017, 09:32:29 AM »

Good point Captain about the solid mediocre team that Philly has before the process. I think the Bulls should need a solid vet coach who can get the most out of the team "cough Scott Skiles" to sort out this mess. Hoilburg is too much a meek college coach in this organizational mess. A vet like Skiles could get the disgruntled vets off the team and see what we have in the young players.
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #283 on: February 17, 2017, 09:38:38 AM »

Ooooh now we disagree. I think Skiles was overrated as a coach for a while, and has proved in recent years that he's not good. The tough guy approach in general doesn't work anymore--college or pro--in my opinion. And his teams' defenses haven't lived up to his reputation in that respect. I think he more seemed like a good coach (feisty ex-player who overachieved) than was a good coach.

You know who I'd hire if I had a shot? Ettore Messina, assistant in San Antonio, former LAL assistant, and former champion in numerous countries overseas. Brilliant basketball mind and I think he's got the overall philosophy along the lines of Pop where he just knows how to do things.
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« Reply #284 on: February 17, 2017, 09:46:24 AM »

Maybe I am biased since he got the Bulls to playoffs in 2004-2005 season after starting 0-9. He always got the most out of Gordon, Hinrich, and Deng. But then again they never went anywhere in the playoffs....  I don't keep up with the assistant coaches like I should, is Messina the heir to Pop once he retires?
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #285 on: February 17, 2017, 10:46:00 AM »

Your review of Thibs first season?
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« Reply #286 on: February 17, 2017, 10:55:59 AM »

Maybe I am biased since he got the Bulls to playoffs in 2004-2005 season after starting 0-9. He always got the most out of Gordon, Hinrich, and Deng. But then again they never went anywhere in the playoffs....  I don't keep up with the assistant coaches like I should, is Messina the heir to Pop once he retires?

He could be, though he might also get a head job before that happens. He was reportedly in the running for LAL when Mike Brown got it (Messina joined the staff there at that time) and for Brooklyn this past offseason when Kenny Atkinson got it (Prokorov was Messina's boss at CSKA Moscow). He has been a 4x Euroleague winner, not to mention probably around 10 domestic league titles between his jobs at top clubs in Italy (Virtus Bologna, Bennetton Treviso), Russia (CSKA), and Spain (Real Madrid). He also spent time in the 80s with Dean Smith during summers, doing a lot of clinics both here and in Europe.
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« Reply #287 on: February 17, 2017, 10:59:43 AM »

Your review of Thibs first season?

Decent. The team is getting better. Wiggins, in particular, is finally beginning to a) make big shots in the 4th quarter, not just scoring 20 in the first three and then disappearing, and b) doing other things, though his defense still should be a lot better than it is. KAT is beginning to be a two-way stud in spots, too, though he has a ways to go as well. He has really found a way to get Muhammad playing well, also, after a rocky start.

But they have a long way to go. Unfortunately, the rough start to the season seemed inevitable when Rubio got hurt in game 3 or something, and now with LaVine out, that's a huge loss. Brandon Rush was a great high school prospect, a good college player, but his best pro days seem behind him ... and they weren't all that good. He has been at best a role player, and he's barely filling that role now (despite being a starter for us at the moment). He isn't really hitting shots, which is his forte, and his defense is really pretty uneven--especially for someone who had a rep as a decent defender. If they make a deadline deal to chase that 8 seed, that off guard spot is probably where it ought to be.

But overall, while the team is a little worse than I'd have expected, they're going the right direction. I was thinking 38-44 wins, and we're on pace for about 31, with 35 seemingly the ceiling barring a magical burst.
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« Reply #288 on: February 17, 2017, 11:45:40 AM »

Maybe I am biased since he got the Bulls to playoffs in 2004-2005 season after starting 0-9. He always got the most out of Gordon, Hinrich, and Deng. But then again they never went anywhere in the playoffs....  I don't keep up with the assistant coaches like I should, is Messina the heir to Pop once he retires?

He could be, though he might also get a head job before that happens. He was reportedly in the running for LAL when Mike Brown got it (Messina joined the staff there at that time) and for Brooklyn this past offseason when Kenny Atkinson got it (Prokorov was Messina's boss at CSKA Moscow). He has been a 4x Euroleague winner, not to mention probably around 10 domestic league titles between his jobs at top clubs in Italy (Virtus Bologna, Bennetton Treviso), Russia (CSKA), and Spain (Real Madrid). He also spent time in the 80s with Dean Smith during summers, doing a lot of clinics both here and in Europe.
Too accomplished for Gar-Pax, they only want nobody coaches that don't question them. The ones that did were physically beat up (vinny del negro) or left despite creating a franchise turn-around (thibs).

Hopefully the Wolves get at least 35 wins and create some buzz for Thibs making your franchise winners instead of a young talent pool for other teams under David Kahn.
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #289 on: February 18, 2017, 03:40:06 AM »

Getting Jimmy Butler back on the court can work wonders...

While I don't expect a blockbuster, I think the Bulls could be interesting as we approach the trade deadline. Just checking last night's box reminds me how little sense this team makes. You've got Butler playing 40 minutes and taking 20 shots, you've got Robin Lopez, Rajon Rondo, Taj Gibson in still-key roles ... but then you're starting MCW and Jerian Grant? You're heavily relying on Bobby Portis and Cristiano Felicio, and even getting Denzel Valentine in there? It's like two mini-teams make the roster. If it were me, I'd either try to get a more competitive roster that's, say, 2/3 or 3/4 prime-career guys, or try to get a more up-and-coming roster that's the opposite of that, 2/3 to 3/4 young and talented with a few vets there for stability and good examples. But this, it's just neither one. They aren't good now, they don't look like they'll be good later, and nobody's happy.

Do you know how unhappy it makes me that Denzel got drafted by this team? It would've been nice to see him go to an organization that knows what the hell it's doing.

Here's something interesting, though; recently, Valentine was interviewed and asked about how his first year was going. And the guy that he kept mentioning was Rondo. Rondo was the first guy in the gym, Rondo was a lot of help giving him advice. Rondo seems to get the brunt of the hate, yet here's a rookie (unprompted) talking about what a great teammate he is.
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the captain
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« Reply #290 on: February 18, 2017, 06:32:47 AM »

I've read that about Rondo, too: that as petulant as he can be toward coaches or officials, he is considered a great teammate and has been at every stop. Go figure! I still wouldn't want him, honestly, even at vet minimum salary, just because he has been so distrustful of coaches, so insistent on running things his way, and most of all, being so opposed to shooting the fricking ball! (When he's in a mood, he makes Rubio look like Steph Curry.)

The Reggie Jackson trade rumors have heated up again. What the heck is going on in Detroit with him? But let me say definitively, even though I think Jackson is good, I do not want to deal for him, and especially not if it means moving Rubio.
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« Reply #291 on: February 18, 2017, 01:01:48 PM »

I've read that about Rondo, too: that as petulant as he can be toward coaches or officials, he is considered a great teammate and has been at every stop. Go figure! I still wouldn't want him, honestly, even at vet minimum salary, just because he has been so distrustful of coaches, so insistent on running things his way, and most of all, being so opposed to shooting the fricking ball! (When he's in a mood, he makes Rubio look like Steph Curry.)

The Reggie Jackson trade rumors have heated up again. What the heck is going on in Detroit with him? But let me say definitively, even though I think Jackson is good, I do not want to deal for him, and especially not if it means moving Rubio.

I have heard the Jackson for Rubio swap for a while. It comes up, goes away, and then comes back.
I'd guess that Jackson is going to be gone by next week. I think if they got an offer for Drummond that blew them away they'd take it, but that doesn't look like it's happening; they'd probably get more for Jackson. Jackson isn't driving to the rim as much as last year, and I don't know if it's because he can't or he doesn't want to.  They're better off running things with Ish Smith.

Well, time for the MSU/Purdue game! Swanigan will probably eat us up again.
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« Reply #292 on: February 18, 2017, 02:22:45 PM »

Wiggins is gonna be huge just wait captain
 
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« Reply #293 on: February 18, 2017, 02:34:11 PM »

I hope so. But so far, he has been a really good (increasingly good) scorer ... mostly when it doesn't matter, unfortunately. He really tends to score a lot in the first 40 minutes of a basketball game, but late--especially at the line--he either doesn't take, or doesn't make, shots. He has hit a few nice late-game shots lately, which is of course great. But that's a few games. Overall I'd say his late-game, alpha mentality is third on the team after LaVine and Towns.

What is annoying is that he was a guy touted as a real stopper on the wing, and he obviously has that ability. But he's not that guy at all. The number of mediocre wings I've watched get easy buckets this year, I mean DAMNIT. And then he doesn't get many boards despite being a 6-8 athletic wing, and he doesn't get that many assists despite being a guy put in a million playmaking opportunities each night. I mean come on.

So ... I hope he fulfills his potential. But he has a long, long way to go (because his potential is immense).
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« Reply #294 on: February 19, 2017, 03:13:04 PM »

For the Cap....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VTG-CHAMPION-MINNESOTA-TIMBERWOLVES-KEVIN-GARNETT-21-JERSEY-MENS-SIZE-40-/322406436185?hash=item4b10ebcd59:g:jS4AAOSw241YjiDt#viTabs_0
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #295 on: February 20, 2017, 05:35:29 AM »

Poor New Orleans...
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« Reply #296 on: February 21, 2017, 07:09:17 AM »

Boogie Nights? Grin
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« Reply #297 on: February 21, 2017, 07:25:26 AM »

I heard someone (Bill Simmons?) say "Boogie and the 'brow."

Honestly I don't know what to make of this trade. Contrary to popular opinion, I think Sacramento got the better of it. Not in talent--not by a long shot--but just getting out from under the Cousins Curse was smart. They were about to hand him well over $200 million dollars, and he's a guy who fights with coaches, teammates, opponents, gets kicked out of games, refuses to get/stay in shape, won't run the court, and won't defend. Oh, but he's great in the community. Lovely. That's worth $200 million from a basketball team: community service from a guy who refuses to promote his community service via the team. Nice? Sure. But nearly useless for a basketball team. Cousins is no longer young, exactly. His act has worn very, very thin. And if you can name me half a dozen guys in NBA history who 1) were tremendous talents, 2) spent half a dozen or so years with horrible attitude problems and an inability to sniff the playoffs, but then c) turned it around in their late 20s somehow to become model citizens on and off the court, well, if you can name those guys, I'll give you $100. Zach Randolph is the best example I have been able to think of, but after that it's a pretty short fucking list. Boogie Cousins ought to be ashamed of himself. And Vivek Ranadive ought to be doubly ashamed of his dumbass self.

But that said, having gotten out from under the weight (literally! Ha!) of Cousins, that's a good move. Even though it netted them damn near nothing. Evans is expiring and injury prone. Galloway is at best a fringe rotation player. The picks are not impressive. And Hield is developing ... into what? Maybe a starter? Probably not much more than that.

On the New Orleans side, I guess Dell Demps had nothing to lose, since his ass was on the line regardless. If they make the playoffs, he has a job for now and has to figure out how to build a team going forward around Davis-Cousins-maybe Holiday with no cap space to speak of. If they don't, he's fired anyway and it's somebody else's problem.

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« Reply #298 on: February 21, 2017, 07:29:35 AM »

Cousins and that organization in Sac. were match made in hell. A malcontent player as the only "star" on a smaller market franchise that nearly moved away before the NBA forced the team to a nobody owner who thought he knew the game after coaching preteen girls.
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« Reply #299 on: February 21, 2017, 07:33:36 AM »

The only good news for the Kings is that now they have no serious money committed anywhere: they basically get a do-over. And while they don't have tons of assets in terms of young talent and picks, they do have a few things to work with. They should have their own picks and New Orleans's picks this year, as well as the still-not-dead Ben McLemore, Skal Labissiere, Malachi Richardson, and the big rookie center whose name I forget (Papagiannis or whatever). Theoretically something good could come of it--especially if Ranadive gets the f*** out of the way and lets professionals (and Vlade) do their jobs.
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