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SurfRapGrungeFiend
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« Reply #250 on: February 12, 2017, 02:35:54 PM »

 R.I.P Fab melo

Cavs had horrible management, until david griffin took-over..
i hear you sixers fans, we have the browns here to compare. horrible product, crooked hillbilly owner whos exploited millions from cuyahoga to fund a sh*t product with the subtle threat of 'relocation' if the demands werent met then got 120 mill from firstenergy for naming rights to a stadium that needs 'repairs' at the taxpayers expense.., just a horrible team all together. point blank an embarrassment to the city for 18 years! They do not deserve the first pick cuz we'll be stuck with tim couch 2.0..  sorry i can bash the sh*t out of that team all day
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« Reply #251 on: February 12, 2017, 03:16:30 PM »

In light of my previous post...I have to join the discussion!  Grin

The Sixers to be honest fell off the radar. I stopped listening to sports talk about 2 decades ago, but I know most of the city sports fans after a certain point simply didn't care because it felt like the team management stopped caring about the fans. And the whole Iverson-Larry Brown conflict drew lines that I and a lot of fans thought were bogus.

But for those outside Philly, let me go back a bit and set the scene. If I get any details wrong, please correct because it's been years.

Before Iverson, there was a Sixers owner named Harold Katz. Keep in mind this 76ers team was once a proud winning team, I mentioned Dr J already but that championship season had Dr J and Moses Malone with his "fo fi fo" prediction and all the good ball that was played.

So Katz comes in, I mean we had Barkley and Mahorn and the "Bump N Thump" team that was pretty cool, but the Sixers hit a brick wall. So Katz had a key draft signing and went with a gangly kid named Shawn Bradley against almost the whole city's wishes. Katz gave him a special jersey with the number 76 and was building a team around this guy...only he couldn't play, he couldn't shoot, and he was soft as hell on the court. At one point they even hired back Moses Malone as a personal coach to try to man up Shawn Bradley and toughen him up, never mind the shooting problems. It didn't work.

So picture a franchise getting a franchise player to build the team around him, and he couldn't play worth a damn. To make it worse, at one point Shawn Bradley literally disappeared from the team - Turned out he was on a religious mission or something and bailed on the team's schedule.

And Katz...I forget the details but there was some kind of a big deal surrounding the team where they needed Katz, and no one could find him or contact him. Turns out he was on a luxury cruise vacation or some sh*t and wasn't taking calls.

That was the Harold Katz Sixers. Eventually Katz left and Bradley got shipped out. Then Iverson came in, and so did Pat Croce as GM.

Croce was a known figure around Philly, he was successful as a motivational kind of guy and also had an exercise or fitness deal going, so he was usually on TV and had a really good way with people. He had also been a personal assistant to Chuck Barris in a previous career...or something, lol.

And Croce literally got the whole city behind the team. he rebuilt a fanbase from literal ashes, and used to do a lot of outreach and public appearances to get fans back on board. He'd be seen standing on busy intersections in Philly handing out Sixers hats and shaking hands, and was really getting the city pumped. It worked.

Enter Iverson, who was a controversial pick but the guy played as tough of a game as I've seen, especially for his size, and would have a way of frustrating the other teams because no matter how much they knocked him around and down on the court, he'd get back up and make them pay for it. A true player, even with all his personal baggage from the past.

They went to the finals, and the playoffs combined with the regular season was the best basketball I have personally seen. I don't think I missed more than a few games that season, it was electric. And the playoffs with teams like the Bucks were the kind of basketball that spoils you forever. As good a game as you'll see, battling odds that people didn't think could be beaten. Unfortunately they lost to the Lakers in the finals, but as a true Philly fan I still say they were robbed by poor officiating and couldn't overcome the coddling of the celebrity players like Shaq and Kobe.

Put it this way...in the finals, there was a scrum under the basket where the two big men Shaq abnd Dikembe Motuombo were fighting for the ball. Shaq literally shoved the ball into Motuombo's face, a deliberate foul, and Dikembe got the foul! That was complete bullshit...but that was the refs coddling the big stars whose jerseys sold and made money.

Another annoyance from that finals...Tyronn Lue. What a pain in the ass. Anyway,  Smiley

Then Croce was gone, and since then the Sixers have had situations where they were better off losing games to get higher draft picks...and when they got those picks, in some cases they flopped. Imagine a team who once rallied literally the whole region behind them being reduced to deliberately underplaying and losing games to garner draft picks, and ownership that doesn't do anything for the fans or the team's well being except offer cheap seats in package deals that no one bothers with.

Shameful. But that's the state of basketball in Philly with the Sixers. If they get anyone as electric and as ballsy as Iverson in his prime, I'll watch them. But my avoidance of them continues as of the present day.
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« Reply #252 on: February 12, 2017, 03:25:35 PM »

Can you tell I'm still mad as hell over that whole thing with the Sixers?  LOL
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« Reply #253 on: February 12, 2017, 03:32:48 PM »

Man,Croce sounds unlike any GM ever. It sounds like he tapped into Philly's working man culture well.
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« Reply #254 on: February 12, 2017, 03:43:02 PM »

Croce was one of a kind, and that is very true: He understood the city and the people and how they react to sports in Philly, and rallied everyone. I know a winning team gathers a lot of fair-weather fans, but this was different in some way. Croce had people who didn't even follow the NBA rallied around the team. I can't describe it, but imagine driving around the Philly suburbs and seeing Sixers flags on all kinds of cars. The sporting goods stores couldn't keep the merch on the racks, and it became very difficult to get tickets. The Phillies when they won it all in '08 was the expected result and a very special thing, but the way Croce himself understood the fans and the city...that was awesome to be a part of as they won game after game.

Then Croce was gone, and the Iverson work ethic became a hot topic after Larry Brown thought practice was a higher priority than winning and putting your whole self out there on the court, even carrying the team in some cases. Shameful. I can't remember who replaced Croce, but he wasn't anywhere near Pat. He'd show up at games wearing designer suits and shoes that look like they cost what a fan made in a month's pay...and it was the ol' politics of money and schmoozing back in Philly from the front office.

One thing Croce did that won the fans over but pissed off his bosses in the ownership...again, if the details are wrong, please correct. A very, very, very well-known and prominent politician was in Philly and wanted tickets to a Sixers game. They were going to accommodate him and re-seat some fans who had bought tickets so the politician could attend. Croce apparently stepped in and said no, those seats are for the fans and if they paid to see the game, they get top priority.

Some say that move by Croce ruffled the wrong feathers in Philly and national politics and not long after, he was out. But Croce did the right thing.
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« Reply #255 on: February 12, 2017, 03:48:44 PM »

WOW all because he wouldnt kiss ass for some 'politician'..
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« Reply #256 on: February 12, 2017, 03:56:11 PM »

True story. Made the papers. I can post it but it may risk getting politics into this as well, and making it more about that than what a stand-up thing Croce did.

The scuttlebutt around Philly was that when Croce's time was coming up...this episode didn't help him career-wise.
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« Reply #257 on: February 12, 2017, 04:03:43 PM »

In light of my previous post...I have to join the discussion!  Grin

The Sixers to be honest fell off the radar. I stopped listening to sports talk about 2 decades ago, but I know most of the city sports fans after a certain point simply didn't care because it felt like the team management stopped caring about the fans. And the whole Iverson-Larry Brown conflict drew lines that I and a lot of fans thought were bogus.

But for those outside Philly, let me go back a bit and set the scene. If I get any details wrong, please correct because it's been years.

Before Iverson, there was a Sixers owner named Harold Katz. Keep in mind this 76ers team was once a proud winning team, I mentioned Dr J already but that championship season had Dr J and Moses Malone with his "fo fi fo" prediction and all the good ball that was played.

So Katz comes in, I mean we had Barkley and Mahorn and the "Bump N Thump" team that was pretty cool, but the Sixers hit a brick wall. So Katz had a key draft signing and went with a gangly kid named Shawn Bradley against almost the whole city's wishes. Katz gave him a special jersey with the number 76 and was building a team around this guy...only he couldn't play, he couldn't shoot, and he was soft as hell on the court. At one point they even hired back Moses Malone as a personal coach to try to man up Shawn Bradley and toughen him up, never mind the shooting problems. It didn't work.

So picture a franchise getting a franchise player to build the team around him, and he couldn't play worth a damn. To make it worse, at one point Shawn Bradley literally disappeared from the team - Turned out he was on a religious mission or something and bailed on the team's schedule.

And Katz...I forget the details but there was some kind of a big deal surrounding the team where they needed Katz, and no one could find him or contact him. Turns out he was on a luxury cruise vacation or some sh*t and wasn't taking calls.

That was the Harold Katz Sixers. Eventually Katz left and Bradley got shipped out. Then Iverson came in, and so did Pat Croce as GM.

Croce was a known figure around Philly, he was successful as a motivational kind of guy and also had an exercise or fitness deal going, so he was usually on TV and had a really good way with people. He had also been a personal assistant to Chuck Barris in a previous career...or something, lol.

And Croce literally got the whole city behind the team. he rebuilt a fanbase from literal ashes, and used to do a lot of outreach and public appearances to get fans back on board. He'd be seen standing on busy intersections in Philly handing out Sixers hats and shaking hands, and was really getting the city pumped. It worked.

Enter Iverson, who was a controversial pick but the guy played as tough of a game as I've seen, especially for his size, and would have a way of frustrating the other teams because no matter how much they knocked him around and down on the court, he'd get back up and make them pay for it. A true player, even with all his personal baggage from the past.

They went to the finals, and the playoffs combined with the regular season was the best basketball I have personally seen. I don't think I missed more than a few games that season, it was electric. And the playoffs with teams like the Bucks were the kind of basketball that spoils you forever. As good a game as you'll see, battling odds that people didn't think could be beaten. Unfortunately they lost to the Lakers in the finals, but as a true Philly fan I still say they were robbed by poor officiating and couldn't overcome the coddling of the celebrity players like Shaq and Kobe.

Put it this way...in the finals, there was a scrum under the basket where the two big men Shaq abnd Dikembe Motuombo were fighting for the ball. Shaq literally shoved the ball into Motuombo's face, a deliberate foul, and Dikembe got the foul! That was complete bullshit...but that was the refs coddling the big stars whose jerseys sold and made money.

Another annoyance from that finals...Tyronn Lue. What a pain in the ass. Anyway,  Smiley

Then Croce was gone, and since then the Sixers have had situations where they were better off losing games to get higher draft picks...and when they got those picks, in some cases they flopped. Imagine a team who once rallied literally the whole region behind them being reduced to deliberately underplaying and losing games to garner draft picks, and ownership that doesn't do anything for the fans or the team's well being except offer cheap seats in package deals that no one bothers with.

Shameful. But that's the state of basketball in Philly with the Sixers. If they get anyone as electric and as ballsy as Iverson in his prime, I'll watch them. But my avoidance of them continues as of the present day.

I paid attention to those Philly teams with Barkley and Mahorn; Mahorn was one of my favorite Pistons, and I was pretty upset that they traded him Minnesota, who in turn traded him to Philly. Later on, I was a big fan of those Iverson teams that were really good because they had Eric Snow as their PG, who played at my favorite college. And I loved the way that Iverson played.

I remember even at the time, the Bradley pick was kinda sketchy. He had only played 1 year of college ball before going on a church mission (if memory serves me correctly); the thing was, it was a hell of a year. He had like 10 blocks in a tournament game (Captain will correct me if I'm wrong), and had like 6 blocks per game, averaged 15 points and 10 boards or something close to that.  I remember the big thing that people said at the time was "you can't teach height". After he left Philly he had some decent years with a couple of teams. He didn't deserve to be number 2 that year, but he wasn't a flat out bust like a lot of people remember.
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« Reply #258 on: February 12, 2017, 04:06:09 PM »

Penny hardaway should have been picked second
What a joke..good for him for sticking up for the people
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« Reply #259 on: February 12, 2017, 04:16:44 PM »

Considering the high stakes and Katz giving him the treasured "76" jersey signalling this guy is all that and sliced bread...Bradley was dreadful with the Sixers. Whatever he had going for him, he never put it on the court especially wearing #76 in Philly. The most telling thing was that hiring back of Moses Malone to personally coach him, and that involved getting him to toughen up if he was going to be the big man pulling down the rebounds, never mind his poor shooting. I remember a few seasons after he got sent packing, he played the Sixers and it was almost comical to see him almost trying extra hard to be a tough guy against his former team, throwing elbows and bumping all over the place, like he was trying to be the Tie Domi of the NBA.

I think the fans would have given him a chance, but all he seemed to bring to the team was height. Then Iverson, literally the exact opposite height-wise, came in and played the kind of tough ball that Philly fans adore in any sport. If you get knocked down, if you bleed on the field or the court, but you stay in the game and make that other team pay for it, you'll never pay for a meal or a drink in Philly from that moment on. Just ask the Phillies' Aaron Rowand or Dickie Noles or any of the 70's Flyers bully boys, lol.
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« Reply #260 on: February 12, 2017, 04:20:45 PM »

Great to see Eric Snow mentioned, he was a helluva player. It reminded me too of how key their bench was that year they made the finals, especially with Aaron McKie. There were games where everyone would be concerned about how many minutes Iverson was on the court, getting roughed up and banged around 99% of the games that year, but when he had to come out the team had a good bench to cover.
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« Reply #261 on: February 12, 2017, 04:45:25 PM »

Legend has it in Virginia that you can see Iverson at Denny's or Waffle House. Undecided Truly a warrior from a tough background in the rough coastal towns of VA.
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« Reply #262 on: February 12, 2017, 05:17:51 PM »

Could you guys keep this conversation to PMs?
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« Reply #263 on: February 12, 2017, 05:23:43 PM »

I had that coming.  Smiley

Just mention the Sixers and it's all over.
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« Reply #264 on: February 12, 2017, 05:28:19 PM »

I'll gladly talk 76ers--or any team!--all and every day. Speaking of whom they are truly about to turn the corner. "The process" is about to bear fruit. Ben Simmons is a genius, and Joel Embiid is great. Brett Brown is easily the best coach the team has had since Larry of the same name. I love that team's future.

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« Reply #265 on: February 12, 2017, 05:28:24 PM »

All teams go in cycles, all sports, where there are rebuilding years and years of misery followed by wins. I'm in Philly, look at the Phillies...still rebuilding 10 years after a World Series win. But the Sixers...another story altogether. They saw what it takes to win games, and until only the last month or so where they played some good ball, they were in a class with the Washington Generals in terms of fans expecting them to win. Maddening.
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« Reply #266 on: February 12, 2017, 05:29:45 PM »

But I do agree, the potential has risen with those names you mentioned. They can have one formidable team if the management plays the right cards and actually builds this team the right way. The pieces are there and waiting.
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« Reply #267 on: February 12, 2017, 05:32:45 PM »

Look at how the team improved drastically after they got Dikembe Motuombo, that one move was as key as the Phillies in '79 basically giving Pete Rose a blank check for him to play in Philly. Next year, 1980 - World Series champs. They needed a big man like Motuombo, they got him, and they made the finals. So much is finding that one key piece to complete the puzzle, and I hope this Sixers organization finds whatever is needed. We need a winning team.
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« Reply #268 on: February 12, 2017, 05:33:49 PM »

Tangentially related to the 76ers, and very relevant in the NBA world, it seems Mason Plumlee, a 2nd rounder, and cash, has been dealt to Denver for Jusuf Nurkic and a 1st rounder. It's relevant in that both Portland and Denver had been mentioned as possible landing spots for Philly's Okafor. This trade would presumably disqualify each? I would guess that means New Orleans or Chicago is the frontrunner for Okafor.
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« Reply #269 on: February 13, 2017, 05:58:38 AM »

Wolves blew out the Bulls.... Shocked
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« Reply #270 on: February 13, 2017, 05:59:39 AM »

Rubio was transcendent.
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« Reply #271 on: February 13, 2017, 06:02:58 AM »

Was the Cap decked out in fangear? Grin
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« Reply #272 on: February 13, 2017, 04:12:27 PM »

All teams go in cycles, all sports, where there are rebuilding years and years of misery followed by wins. I'm in Philly, look at the Phillies...still rebuilding 10 years after a World Series win. But the Sixers...another story altogether. They saw what it takes to win games, and until only the last month or so where they played some good ball, they were in a class with the Washington Generals in terms of fans expecting them to win. Maddening.
Very true in most sports cities, but you had me at the same class as the generals  Grin
"When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?" Dan Gilbert to david stern back in 2011

Cavs traded chris andersen to CHA for second round pick and an open roster spot and CHA waived him. Atleast the carmelo talks have died down in local media no way cavs were giving up love yet, i love NY media they write the most absurd stuff like "lebron wants melo at expense of love and irving" LOL. NY media has had a hard on for lebron and Irving since they were both drafted cuz its Cleveland

On a bright note captain the wolves are better than the Lakers
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« Reply #273 on: February 13, 2017, 04:26:57 PM »

Honestly the Wolves should be far better than the Lakers this season. But LA got off to a good start and of course the Wolves did the opposite. And it doesn't help that LaVine is out for the year. But they're playing somewhat better, and the Lakers have leveled off.
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« Reply #274 on: February 14, 2017, 08:50:52 AM »

Orlando sent Serge Ibaka to Toronto for Terrence Ross and a 2017 1st rounder.
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