-->
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 13, 2019, 02:36:00 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
News: Carnival Of Sound
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  The Smiley Smile Message Board
|-+  Non Smiley Smile Stuff
| |-+  The Sandbox
| | |-+  Pet Sounds and Race
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Pet Sounds and Race  (Read 31737 times)
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
bonnevillemariner
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 435



View Profile
« Reply #175 on: October 18, 2016, 12:02:54 PM »

Thanks.

Make no mistake, I have strong opinions and beliefs on any and all things unrelated to the Beach Boys. I think there's a pretty short half-life to how far a discussion can stay interesting concerning the original article that started this thread, but I went with it as long as it still included some tangent related to the Beach Boys.

I would agree, were there anything remotely interesting going on relevant to the Beach Boys on that page.  Same 10 on-topic but lame threads. Frankly, this thread is the only reason I've visited here as of late. Now back to your inane banter about mike v. brian, why C50 ended, and the the books with their bylines that neither of them wrote.
Logged
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8522



View Profile WWW
« Reply #176 on: October 18, 2016, 12:08:15 PM »

Thanks.

Make no mistake, I have strong opinions and beliefs on any and all things unrelated to the Beach Boys. I think there's a pretty short half-life to how far a discussion can stay interesting concerning the original article that started this thread, but I went with it as long as it still included some tangent related to the Beach Boys.

I would agree, were there anything remotely interesting going on relevant to the Beach Boys on that page.  Same 10 on-topic but lame threads. Frankly, this thread is the only reason I've visited here as of late. Now back to your inane banter about mike v. brian, why C50 ended, and the the books with their bylines that neither of them wrote.

What a nice fellow.
Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
bonnevillemariner
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 435



View Profile
« Reply #177 on: October 18, 2016, 12:14:22 PM »

Take an inventory of the last 3 pages of any post on the Gen. Discussion thread and tell me they're any more relevant to the Beach Boys than this one.  I'm a decent fellow; I simply have a distaste for over-moderated (or selectively moderated) forums.
Logged
♩♬🐸 Sorry Entertainer ♯♫♩🐇
The Dr. of Wilsonomics
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10866


🍦🍦 Hi...how are you? ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #178 on: October 18, 2016, 12:16:26 PM »

Thanks.

Make no mistake, I have strong opinions and beliefs on any and all things unrelated to the Beach Boys. I think there's a pretty short half-life to how far a discussion can stay interesting concerning the original article that started this thread, but I went with it as long as it still included some tangent related to the Beach Boys.

I would agree, were there anything remotely interesting going on relevant to the Beach Boys on that page.  Same 10 on-topic but lame threads. Frankly, this thread is the only reason I've visited here as of late. Now back to your inane banter about mike v. brian, why C50 ended, and the the books with their bylines that neither of them wrote.
You know, some of us are trying to make this place better. If you want it to be a better board, make it one.  And the book discussion IS on topic, as both of them are recently released...that and the tours are the most pertinent topics as of now.
Logged

RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
___________________________________________________


"I’d rather die than owe the hospital Till I get old/ I get adrenalin straight to the heart/ like Uma Thurman overdosing kick-start/ Anaphylactic and super hypocondriactic "

^ This fake quote brought to you by "Oyster Pudding™ ....the Pudding with the Pearl inside!"
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8522



View Profile WWW
« Reply #179 on: October 18, 2016, 12:21:34 PM »

Take an inventory of the last 3 pages of any post on the Gen. Discussion thread and tell me they're any more relevant to the Beach Boys than this one.  I'm a decent fellow; I simply have a distaste for over-moderated (or selectively moderated) forums.

Conversations *you* enjoy or find interesting do not equate to "On Topic".

The "Sandbox" forum here seems to be a perfect fit for the scenario that went down in this thread.

It's not my job to defend the other posts or threads on this board. If you don't like them, then don't post. If you rarely post, and most of your few posts over the course of six months are of a largely off-topic nature, that tells me a few things. One, *you* apparently don't like the board, or at least anything being discussed on the board. Two, you have a KAJILLION places on the internet to discuss race, politics, etc.

There are plenty of interesting topics in the main forum. Brian's book. Mike's book. Brian's current tour.

Yes, I find the setlist from Brian's Sacramento show, even if it's the same freaking setlist from the last month of shows, more on-topic than a discussion of "how inherently liberal a college education is."

If you actually like the Beach Boys and like discussions concerning the band, and don't like any of the available threads on the board, how about *starting* one yourself?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 12:23:22 PM by HeyJude » Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7255


View Profile
« Reply #180 on: October 18, 2016, 01:11:57 PM »

Well, neither of what we are saying is necessarily in conflict here. But I do think that people have a wildly distorted notion of what constitutes left politics, academics included, which is why so many of them are predominantly centrists who imagine themselves as leftists.

This is interesting, because my professors really tried to portray themselves as centrist. I'm interested in what you define as left politics. Perhaps Academia and Joe Public are measuring on different spectra?

I'll let CSM speak for himself, but I assume he's talking about the difference between what most Americans consider leftist (by which they generally mean something akin to the Democratic party) and the rest of the world (whose center to center-right parties are more like our mainstream Democrats). Basically, because we only have two parties that anyone pays attention to, and because we're suckers for the myth of two opposing teams, we think we have one rightist, conservative, Republican party and one leftist, liberal/progressive, Democratic party. Our perspective is out of whack from the rest of the world's.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
bonnevillemariner
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 435



View Profile
« Reply #181 on: October 18, 2016, 01:14:17 PM »

On-topic != engaging, and I suppose if I were running the shop I'd give deference to the latter. I've never subscribed to the MUST BE ON TOPIC purist mindset, and this thread has remained pretty intellectual and civilized-- more so, I'd argue, than the majority of on-topic threads here. But alas, I'm not running the shop, so carry on.
Logged
bonnevillemariner
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 435



View Profile
« Reply #182 on: October 18, 2016, 01:22:09 PM »

You know, some of us are trying to make this place better. If you want it to be a better board, make it one.  And the book discussion IS on topic, as both of them are recently released...that and the tours are the most pertinent topics as of now.

I don't think this thread makes this a better board, per se, but I also don't think this hurts it at all.  The topic is quite relevant: Beach Boys era music viewed in a historical/cultural context. If it's the off-topic side-conversations that make this thread sandbox worthy, I suggest you maintain consistency by moving every other thread with side conversations here, too.  I make this a better board by posting well-thought, civilized comments on threads that interest me.  Should I ever have the slightest interest in the three topics that dominate here (C50 demise, Smile track order and tours), I suppose I'll chime in there.
Logged
♩♬🐸 Sorry Entertainer ♯♫♩🐇
The Dr. of Wilsonomics
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10866


🍦🍦 Hi...how are you? ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #183 on: October 18, 2016, 01:46:44 PM »

Quote
If it's the off-topic side-conversations that make this thread sandbox worthy, I suggest you maintain consistency by moving every other thread with side conversations here, too.

The off-topic side conversation has become the *main* conversation in this thread, which is why it was moved. Doesn't mean that all topics with side conversations get moved. And I've been consistent in moving political/racial stuff off of the main board, because many of us do not come here to read that stuff.
Logged

RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
___________________________________________________


"I’d rather die than owe the hospital Till I get old/ I get adrenalin straight to the heart/ like Uma Thurman overdosing kick-start/ Anaphylactic and super hypocondriactic "

^ This fake quote brought to you by "Oyster Pudding™ ....the Pudding with the Pearl inside!"
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8522



View Profile WWW
« Reply #184 on: October 18, 2016, 01:59:55 PM »

I can't speak for the folks running the board, but I don't necessarily take a thread being moved to the Sandbox as an implication that it's a bad conversation, or lacking civility, etc. Most of the stuff in the Sandbox probably is inane, sometimes civil and polite but inane. But the main point is that it's off-topic. The two choices typically on a moderated board would be to either tell people to stop posting the off-topic content, or move the thread.

A few folks here seem to dig the conversation, so I see moving it as the better option compared to telling people to stop posting.

Anything remotely invoking politics pretty quickly goes off the rails. I suppose I feel that if someone is making an on-topic point I disagree with, then I have to suck it up. But my tolerance for reading things I find disagreeable or lamentable that are also completely off-topic is quite low. That's where the "Sandbox" becomes the perfect place in my opinion.

I don't agree with the apparent characterization that some have made that the preceding page or so of off-topic discussion of race and politics is quite so enlightened. But in the Sandbox where political threads are acceptable, what *I* think of such a discussion doesn't matter. But again, just because someone thinks an off-topic discussion is intellectual or substantive enough to trump the most basic on-topic/off-topic guidelines of the board, it doesn't mean others find it as substantive.

In short, I can't go off-topic in the "On Topic" forum just because I think what I'm posting is brilliant and important.

If there were no "Sandbox" section to this board, I wouldn't even be having this conversation. Just bringing the hammer down and shutting a conversation down is something I would imagine nobody wants. But this board has a section for precisely the direction this thread took. The same posters can contribute and the same discussion can continue. The only difference is the background color in this section is different. Plus, I believe, posts here don't count toward your total post count.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 02:02:14 PM by HeyJude » Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7255


View Profile
« Reply #185 on: October 18, 2016, 02:18:30 PM »

Sandbox has nothing to do with inappropriateness, but as HeyJude said, it's just about subject matter. Not BBs related for an extended period of time = Sandbox.

Frankly I also agree that there's virtually nothing interesting going on more often than not in the BBs forum--most topics have simply been beaten to death--and so I think the Sandbox is (or can be) the best place on the whole damn board. But that said, the threads I may like here that deal with cooking, politics, or whatever else just don't belong in the main forum (unless they adhere to the BBs more directly).
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2869


View Profile
« Reply #186 on: October 18, 2016, 03:09:18 PM »

I'm perfectly fine with the thread going to the sandbox. I do apologize for taking part in shifting the conversation away from the Beach Boys but when I do these kinds of things it is with the confidence that the mods will either shift the discussion to the sandbox or at least, excise the non-Beach Boys related elements to the sandbox.
Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2869


View Profile
« Reply #187 on: October 18, 2016, 03:12:32 PM »

Well, neither of what we are saying is necessarily in conflict here. But I do think that people have a wildly distorted notion of what constitutes left politics, academics included, which is why so many of them are predominantly centrists who imagine themselves as leftists.

This is interesting, because my professors really tried to portray themselves as centrist. I'm interested in what you define as left politics. Perhaps Academia and Joe Public are measuring on different spectra?

I'll let CSM speak for himself, but I assume he's talking about the difference between what most Americans consider leftist (by which they generally mean something akin to the Democratic party) and the rest of the world (whose center to center-right parties are more like our mainstream Democrats). Basically, because we only have two parties that anyone pays attention to, and because we're suckers for the myth of two opposing teams, we think we have one rightist, conservative, Republican party and one leftist, liberal/progressive, Democratic party. Our perspective is out of whack from the rest of the world's.

Yes, that's what I mean, and, as Chomsky suggests, the intellectual elite in many ways perpetuate that distortion. I might also add that this distortion is spreading beyond the United States.
Logged
Emily
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2019


View Profile
« Reply #188 on: October 18, 2016, 06:48:56 PM »

I understand what you're saying, CSM, but I also think "left" and "right" are relative to the center and, unfortunately, the center has been moving further right since the 80s, both in the US and in Europe, thus what used to be center is now left.
It's certainly the case that from a global perspective, the American left is pretty far right, especially when it comes to foreign policy and economics.
Logged
Emily
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2019


View Profile
« Reply #189 on: October 18, 2016, 06:53:27 PM »

I'm curious if the people who get terribly angry at "political correctness" for trying to control how people speak about things ever notice how much they themselves try to control how people speak about things.

I'm not sure whether you were referring to my resurrection of this thread or John Lemon's response, but I wonder if you care to actually address my point.

Let me put it another way. I'm white, but I grew up in a section of  Salt Lake City that was majority minority.  Solid majority Hispanic with a lot of Polynesian mixed in.  My school district was the first majority minority district in the state.  My particular neighborhood was mostly Polynesian, so the soundtrack to my childhood was a mix of Jawaiian and traditional Samoan folk. In fact, my first exposure to Beach Boys music was  neighbors playing the surf stuff on ukuleles.  I came to love the traditional Samoan/Tongan stuff the best and I still listen to it heavily today.

Now, let's take the passage I cited before and replace the white stuff with Polynesian:

"For a lot of listeners, Fau'ula stands for Poly-dad folk, which stands for a worldview we’re in the necessary process of dismantling."

Would anybody ever say that? Hell no. It would truly be immoral, bigoted and racist. I find it fascinating that popular Progressive culture finds it cool-- nay, necessary-- to throw one culture/race under the bus as the single exception to their Prime Directive.  The rationale for this is what I'm interested in understanding.

My comment was not specific to your comment, but rather that there are now 6 pages of denunciations of rather mild commentary saying that, basically, rock and roll started out primarily as a black medium and rapidly became a primarily white medium. The denunciations of 'political correctness' and 'social justice warriors' are now a very aggressive silencing and social censoring force of their own. Anti-political correctness, which is basically that you can't criticize racism or sexism, is its own powerful political correctness. But none of the people shouting down people who discuss racism seem to notice that they are trying to control expression every bit as much, and in the same way, as political correctness does.

Regarding your specific comment, if we lived in a society in which the hegemonic power and culture had been, for centuries, Polynesian - in a culture in which virtually all senators, congress people, presidents, judges, business leaders, governors, millionaires and billionaires, news reporters and anchor people, and talk show hosts and show runners had been Polynesian - though a significant minority of the population had been white people all that time; and if that society had actually, for the vast majority of that time, up until the living memory of many white people,  by law suppressed white people; and if in that society white people still disproportionately experienced violence and incarceration by the state, and if there remained, say, 42% of the population supporting a Polynesian presidential candidate with a life-long history of anti-white statements and actions, I would find it not offensive that someone wrote a mention of 'Poly-dad' music.

Criticism is not the same as silencing. Silencing is shutting down debate by screeching things like "check your privilege at the door" when confronted with an uncomfortable argument.

Rock and roll has roots in the African American community. Sombreros have roots in Mexico. Who cares? It is important for historical reasons but beyond that it belongs to all who love it.

African Americans are disproportionately inprisoned because African American commit crimes at a disproportionately higher rate that other ethnicities.

The violence that African Americans suffer at disproportionately higher rates than other ethnicities is primary committed by African Americans. White on black violence is a footnote except to the SJW fascists who are more concerned with tearing society apart than fixing it.

You are not obliged to appreciate 'Pet Sounds' but if you criticize it because it represents 'white culture' and its roots are in 'black culture' then you are an idiot. I have no respect for people who make their ethnicity, gender or orientation the central focus of how they filter life, art and other human beings, because in doing so they are no different than David Duke.

BTW, I am proudly #neverTrump

I have never said, let alone screeched, "check your privilege," and yet people have used "PC" and "SJW" multiple times as ways to try to silence me.  Calling something "PC" or calling someone an "SJW" is every bit as much an attempt at silencing as calling someone racist. In some circles, more so. And calling someone "PC" or "SJW" is often a reaction, such as in this thread, when people are confronted with an uncomfortable argument. I mean, that's EXACTLY what happened in this thread.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 06:55:09 PM by Emily » Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2869


View Profile
« Reply #190 on: October 18, 2016, 07:02:20 PM »

I understand what you're saying, CSM, but I also think "left" and "right" are relative to the center and, unfortunately, the center has been moving further right since the 80s, both in the US and in Europe, thus what used to be center is now left.
It's certainly the case that from a global perspective, the American left is pretty far right, especially when it comes to foreign policy and economics.


Yes, at the level of the political establishment, the centre has moved further to the right all over. However, at the popular level, I believe that there is still a great deal of old-school left sentiment out there and consequently I still see a value in retaining a sense of the old political spectrum.
Logged
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8141



View Profile
« Reply #191 on: October 18, 2016, 07:03:50 PM »

America is strange politically....
Logged

And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
Emily
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2019


View Profile
« Reply #192 on: October 18, 2016, 07:03:59 PM »

I understand what you're saying, CSM, but I also think "left" and "right" are relative to the center and, unfortunately, the center has been moving further right since the 80s, both in the US and in Europe, thus what used to be center is now left.
It's certainly the case that from a global perspective, the American left is pretty far right, especially when it comes to foreign policy and economics.


Yes, at the level of the political establishment, the centre has moved further to the right all over. However, at the popular level, I believe that there is still a great deal of old-school left sentiment out there and consequently I still see a value in retaining a sense of the old political spectrum.
I hope you're right. I mean, correct.
Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2869


View Profile
« Reply #193 on: October 18, 2016, 07:07:27 PM »

I understand what you're saying, CSM, but I also think "left" and "right" are relative to the center and, unfortunately, the center has been moving further right since the 80s, both in the US and in Europe, thus what used to be center is now left.
It's certainly the case that from a global perspective, the American left is pretty far right, especially when it comes to foreign policy and economics.


Yes, at the level of the political establishment, the centre has moved further to the right all over. However, at the popular level, I believe that there is still a great deal of old-school left sentiment out there and consequently I still see a value in retaining a sense of the old political spectrum.
I hope you're right. I mean, correct.

Haha. Well, I hope I'm the latter and certainly not the former!
Logged
♩♬🐸 Sorry Entertainer ♯♫♩🐇
The Dr. of Wilsonomics
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10866


🍦🍦 Hi...how are you? ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #194 on: October 18, 2016, 07:19:39 PM »

LOL


FYI, for the record, I'm as far left as you can imagine, in most areas. Big surprise, huh? :D
Logged

RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
___________________________________________________


"I’d rather die than owe the hospital Till I get old/ I get adrenalin straight to the heart/ like Uma Thurman overdosing kick-start/ Anaphylactic and super hypocondriactic "

^ This fake quote brought to you by "Oyster Pudding™ ....the Pudding with the Pearl inside!"
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7255


View Profile
« Reply #195 on: October 19, 2016, 05:58:11 AM »

Don't doubt my imagination. 😀
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8141



View Profile
« Reply #196 on: October 19, 2016, 06:15:59 AM »

Joe Thomas producing your album?
Logged

And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7255


View Profile
« Reply #197 on: October 19, 2016, 07:00:02 AM »

No, he's busy getting new nylon guitar strings.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
thorgil
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 416


GREAT post, Rab!


View Profile
« Reply #198 on: October 19, 2016, 07:28:27 AM »

Sadly, the only thing in current Europe that could remotely recall the traditional "left" is the extremely high taxation. Everything else is going exactly like in America, or even worse: pauperisation of most of the the population, de facto return of slavery, destruction of any semblance of "welfare", democracy reduced to a very unfunny joke, widespread unchecked corruption, wholesale lies by all the media, curbing of dissenting voices, wanton annihilation of the environment.
And the would-be "intellectuals" who in such a situation, instead of addressing real problems, keep toying with absurdities such as Pet Sounds being (albeit unwittlingly) racist, are (wittingly) instrumental in mantaining this abominable status quo.
But of course, targeting Pet Sounds is so much easier and, above all, safer.
Logged

DIT, DIT, DIT, HEROES AND VILLAINS...
modestmaus
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 50



View Profile
« Reply #199 on: October 21, 2016, 05:00:11 PM »

My (Final) Solution
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.26 seconds with 21 queries.