gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680598 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 06:42:33 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Pitchfork article: The People vs. Mike Love  (Read 8327 times)
WWDWD?
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 172


What would Dennis Wilson do?


View Profile
« on: September 19, 2016, 08:48:40 PM »

Pretty harsh article. Seems like this person had already made up their mind before reading the book.

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1296-the-people-vs-mike-love/

Logged
The LEGENDARY OSD
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1948

luHv Estrangement Syndrome. It's a great thing!


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2016, 09:31:12 PM »

Pretty harsh article. Seems like this person had already made up their mind before reading the book.

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1296-the-people-vs-mike-love/



The hell with the book, myKe luHv is incredibly harsh and deserves every word, sentiment and judgement of that review.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 09:47:35 PM by The LEGENDARY OSD » Logged

myKe luHv, the most hated, embarrassing clown the world of music has ever witnessed.
Lee Marshall
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1639



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 06:04:43 AM »

Pretty harsh article. Seems like this person had already made up their mind before reading the book.

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1296-the-people-vs-mike-love/



Well  N O.

What it shows is that the reviewer did her homework, understands who the principals are, and that at least SHE KNOWS what principles are.  She applies these specific assets to a review different yet comparable to the assessment issued in the New York Times.

To save time I'll borrow a quote from her analyses.  It pretty much sizes it all up accurately..."But I implore you to examine the evidence presented herein and reach the only logical conclusion: Mike Love is still a dick. "

That's not harsh.  It's true. Cool Guy
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 02:18:24 PM by Add Some » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
Rocky Raccoon
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2393



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 06:25:16 AM »

Lol I just saw that I've been blocked from commenting on Mike's Facebook page because I said under his Bill O'Reilly interview that it was great that he found someone to look like less of a dick next to in comparison.  The comment has been deleted as well.  It's like the page is moderated so that Mike is only given positive praise.
Logged

Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1080



View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2016, 06:35:46 AM »

Lol I just saw that I've been blocked from commenting on Mike's Facebook page because I said under his Bill O'Reilly interview that it was great that he found someone to look like less of a dick next to in comparison.  The comment has been deleted as well.  It's like the page is moderated so that Mike is only given positive praise.

You can get banned for a lot lot less than that. His social media team are clueless.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 06:38:08 AM by My Brother Woody » Logged

HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10030



View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2016, 06:39:10 AM »

Pretty harsh article. Seems like this person had already made up their mind before reading the book.

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1296-the-people-vs-mike-love/



Nah, I think the "made their mind up before they read it" and "they haven't even read it!" arguments are kind of the go-to methods for defending Mike and his book.

I think it's particular problematic to say this about someone who actually submitted a review, who presumably actually *did* read the book. I got the opposite impression actually. Like many of us, it sounds like the reviewer went into the book *hoping* Mike would do something to redeem himself and not just reinforce all of the things people already think about him. In trying to counteract his "perception", Mike ended up reinforcing it because, in my opinion, that's what his deal is, that's who he is.
Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
Dwayne
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 18


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2016, 06:52:51 AM »

Pretty harsh article. Seems like this person had already made up their mind before reading the book.

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1296-the-people-vs-mike-love/



I agree that the writer of this article sounds like they had an axe to grind with Mike on just about everything.  I am about 75% of the way through his book and so far I don't share ANY of the same opinions of this writer.  The book is filled with interesting details I've never heard before from a 1st person account from one who has been there since before the founding of the band which is more credible than the opinions of people who get their info from hearsay.  I now have a greater appreciation of Mike's point of view on things.  This is a fantastic read so far, looking forward to Brian's book soon!
Logged
Juice Brohnston
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 627



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2016, 07:26:44 AM »

The author actually has some valid and interesting points. There is too much of an anti Mike spin however, which I feel, gives the article less cred then it could have. See, the author is kinda doing what Mike did in his book, lol.
Logged
thorgil
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 416


GREAT post, Rab!


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2016, 07:35:09 AM »

I agree that the author's tone comes out as exaggerated, though almost surely sincere.
One sentence I disagree with: "There was the potential of a better, more thoughtful book here."
No, sadly there was no potential.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 07:40:40 AM by thorgil » Logged

DIT, DIT, DIT, HEROES AND VILLAINS...
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10030



View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2016, 07:46:49 AM »

The author actually has some valid and interesting points. There is too much of an anti Mike spin however, which I feel, gives the article less cred then it could have. See, the author is kinda doing what Mike did in his book, lol.

Well geez, I think part of the point of the article is to be a humorous spin on the normal "review" format. It's a bit over the top in that sense, and purposely so.
Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10030



View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2016, 07:49:09 AM »

Pretty harsh article. Seems like this person had already made up their mind before reading the book.

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1296-the-people-vs-mike-love/



I agree that the writer of this article sounds like they had an axe to grind with Mike on just about everything.  I am about 75% of the way through his book and so far I don't share ANY of the same opinions of this writer.  The book is filled with interesting details I've never heard before from a 1st person account from one who has been there since before the founding of the band which is more credible than the opinions of people who get their info from hearsay.  I now have a greater appreciation of Mike's point of view on things.  This is a fantastic read so far, looking forward to Brian's book soon!

Let's be clear that, in my opinion, while individual anecdotes are based presumably on Mike's personal memories, there is a lot of biographical info in the book that seems straight out of any number of BB bios that have been out for years.

I would also trust Jim Murphy's "Becoming the Beach Boys" more than I would trust the memory of any of these guys. In fact, I think Murphy's book several times gets into how the story and memories of the band's formative years got skewed over time and were not accurate.
Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
Juice Brohnston
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 627



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2016, 07:52:32 AM »

The author actually has some valid and interesting points. There is too much of an anti Mike spin however, which I feel, gives the article less cred then it could have. See, the author is kinda doing what Mike did in his book, lol.

Well geez, I think part of the point of the article is to be a humorous spin on the normal "review" format. It's a bit over the top in that sense, and purposely so.

If that was the game plan, it's a fail IMO. Too much detail and opinion. If you want to go over the top, the author should have got on here for some reference King
Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2871


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2016, 07:59:36 AM »

The author actually has some valid and interesting points. There is too much of an anti Mike spin however, which I feel, gives the article less cred then it could have. See, the author is kinda doing what Mike did in his book, lol.

Well geez, I think part of the point of the article is to be a humorous spin on the normal "review" format. It's a bit over the top in that sense, and purposely so.

If that was the game plan, it's a fail IMO. Too much detail and opinion. If you want to go over the top, the author should have got on here for some reference King

I would have thought that opinion is what a review is supposed to convey.

Again, I think it is problematic to ask reality for objectivity.
Logged
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10030



View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2016, 08:00:37 AM »

I think the basic point of the article, humor aside, is quite sagacious. It's an important point: Even those who want to give Mike a chance to say his piece find that Mike does a *horrible* job as his own advocate. He defensive nature, and rattling off a litany of things he has to defend himself against, all contribute to making himself look even worse.

If people think you're a dick, and you think you're not, you should hopefully be able to go to some length to indicate why you're not. But Mike is sometimes literally a dick about saying he's not a dick. It's a weird sort of paradox.

I also think it's dismissive to assume everybody goes in wanting to reinforce their preconceived idea that Mike is a dick. I took this article as "Mike has always been known as a dick. I read his book in order to get to the ultimate source who can explain why he isn't a dick, and the end result is that he in fact still comes across as a dick."
Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
GhostyTMRS
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 722



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2016, 08:18:02 AM »

I think the basic point of the article, humor aside, is quite sagacious. It's an important point: Even those who want to give Mike a chance to say his piece find that Mike does a *horrible* job as his own advocate. He defensive nature, and rattling off a litany of things he has to defend himself against, all contribute to making himself look even worse.

If people think you're a dick, and you think you're not, you should hopefully be able to go to some length to indicate why you're not. But Mike is sometimes literally a dick about saying he's not a dick. It's a weird sort of paradox.

I also think it's dismissive to assume everybody goes in wanting to reinforce their preconceived idea that Mike is a dick. I took this article as "Mike has always been known as a dick. I read his book in order to get to the ultimate source who can explain why he isn't a dick, and the end result is that he in fact still comes across as a dick."

It's also dismissive to assume that everyone reading the book is walking away with the impression that Mike is a dick. Mind you, I haven't finished it yet, but that strikes me as attempt to marginalize anyone who didn't have that reaction. I have two friends, for example ,who are currently reading the book (at my suggestion...and yes, I'm suggesting they read Brian's too) and one thinks Mike comes off poorly while the other thinks it makes him seem like a likeable dude. Neither fella is caught up in Beach-Boy-internet-fandemonium and are more casual fans so the different reactions are interesting.
Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2871


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2016, 08:27:09 AM »

It's also dismissive to assume that everyone reading the book is walking away with the impression that Mike is a dick.

Hey Jude has not made that assumption whatsoever in the post you are responding to. Even if he did, I'm confused as to who or what is being dismissed with such an assumption.
Logged
MarcellaHasDirtyFeet
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 582


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2016, 08:35:15 AM »

I think the basic point of the article, humor aside, is quite sagacious. It's an important point: Even those who want to give Mike a chance to say his piece find that Mike does a *horrible* job as his own advocate. He defensive nature, and rattling off a litany of things he has to defend himself against, all contribute to making himself look even worse.

If people think you're a dick, and you think you're not, you should hopefully be able to go to some length to indicate why you're not. But Mike is sometimes literally a dick about saying he's not a dick. It's a weird sort of paradox.

I also think it's dismissive to assume everybody goes in wanting to reinforce their preconceived idea that Mike is a dick. I took this article as "Mike has always been known as a dick. I read his book in order to get to the ultimate source who can explain why he isn't a dick, and the end result is that he in fact still comes across as a dick."

It's also dismissive to assume that everyone reading the book is walking away with the impression that Mike is a dick. Mind you, I haven't finished it yet, but that strikes me as attempt to marginalize anyone who didn't have that reaction. I have two friends, for example ,who are currently reading the book (at my suggestion...and yes, I'm suggesting they read Brian's too) and one thinks Mike comes off poorly while the other thinks it makes him seem like a likeable dude. Neither fella is caught up in Beach-Boy-internet-fandemonium and are more casual fans so the different reactions are interesting.

It might come down to different types of personalities respond to the phenomenon of "Mike Love" in different ways. Hell, that might explain our competing boards, as well.  Wink
Logged
GhostyTMRS
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 722



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2016, 08:43:07 AM »

It's also dismissive to assume that everyone reading the book is walking away with the impression that Mike is a dick.

Hey Jude has not made that assumption whatsoever in the post you are responding to. Even if he did, I'm confused as to who or what is being dismissed with such an assumption.

I'm referring to the first part, which is about the author of the piece. The idea that Mike is so bad at making himself not look like a dick that he comes off looking like a dick. Obviously you can't assume that. Like I said, two people can have very different reactions to the same material.
Logged
thorgil
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 416


GREAT post, Rab!


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2016, 08:45:00 AM »

Well, some people like BS more than others. Smiley
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 08:46:21 AM by thorgil » Logged

DIT, DIT, DIT, HEROES AND VILLAINS...
GhostyTMRS
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 722



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2016, 08:48:29 AM »

I'm still not finished reading it. I have about 100 pages to go. There are certainly some things where I just have to go "ugh!" but it's more to do with Mike's perception of certain events. I don't begrudge him for taking the positions he does however. He's allowed, and it's a more informed position than I or any fan on a message board could ever have because I wasn't there, not involved, not my call, etc.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9996


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2016, 08:54:00 AM »

I'm still not finished reading it. I have about 100 pages to go. There are certainly some things where I just have to go "ugh!" but it's more to do with Mike's perception of certain events. I don't begrudge him for taking the positions he does however. He's allowed, and it's a more informed position than I or any fan on a message board could ever have because I wasn't there, not involved, not my call, etc.

Would you agree or disagree that some of the comments and statements made in the book could use some kind of clarification or further explanation? In another thread, the issue of attaching autotune devices to mics at C50 was discussed, specifically the exact wording and the charge that Melinda Wilson personally did this with the autotune devices. There seems to be a discrepancy, short of suggesting such a scenario wouldn't be probable. At that point, it's not perception as much as it's making a claim which people reading would say "hold the phone, that doesn't sound right", and that's exactly what is being done in that discussion. Is it a big deal? I'd say, yes - suggesting Brian's wife brought in five autotune devices to attach to the band's mics at C50 is a pretty big claim to publish. Just some clarification would be necessary. That's not perception, that's a reporting of fact as placed in the book.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
GhostyTMRS
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 722



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2016, 09:05:30 AM »

I'm still not finished reading it. I have about 100 pages to go. There are certainly some things where I just have to go "ugh!" but it's more to do with Mike's perception of certain events. I don't begrudge him for taking the positions he does however. He's allowed, and it's a more informed position than I or any fan on a message board could ever have because I wasn't there, not involved, not my call, etc.

Would you agree or disagree that some of the comments and statements made in the book could use some kind of clarification or further explanation? In another thread, the issue of attaching autotune devices to mics at C50 was discussed, specifically the exact wording and the charge that Melinda Wilson personally did this with the autotune devices. There seems to be a discrepancy, short of suggesting such a scenario wouldn't be probable. At that point, it's not perception as much as it's making a claim which people reading would say "hold the phone, that doesn't sound right", and that's exactly what is being done in that discussion. Is it a big deal? I'd say, yes - suggesting Brian's wife brought in five autotune devices to attach to the band's mics at C50 is a pretty big claim to publish. Just some clarification would be necessary. That's not perception, that's a reporting of fact as placed in the book.

Of course, there are comments where I go "Hmm, don't know if that's accurate" but further clarification? It's not like he's on trial. Unless you're suggesting he write a sequel or something to specifically address questions from readers, but no one who writes an autobiography does that.   
Logged
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10030



View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2016, 09:16:49 AM »

Ironically, I would say that Mike's book has more of an air of addressing a myriad of individual accusations than most autobiographies I read.

It's far from the first "score settling" autobiography. But at least some autobiographies seem to at least be more grounded in a "I might have an interesting story to tell, so here it is..." vibe, whereas Mike's is *very much* a "I'm pissed about all the stuff people have been saying about me, so here's my side."

Mike doesn't owe anyone any explanations due to his book or anything else (I guess unless lawsuits materialize as a result), but he chose to write a book and people are going to scrutinize what he's writing. Some stuff he says is basic biographical information (some new to the book, a lot as well that has been told in countless other books), some stuff is individual anecdotes, other things are more general impressions and opinions, and so on.

Obviously, a lot of hardcore fans are going to go into this book rather incredulous at the outset. We should keep open minds, but a lot of fan (and press) incredulity has been caused by decades of Mike, well, being Mike. In any event, there are *a lot* of "hrmmmm" moments in this thing. On occasion, it's a literal "I think that might be incorrect" thing. But often, it's more of a "if you stop and think about that, it doesn't make any sense." For instance, in my voluminous notes posted in other book thread, I mention Mike being offended that Al wanted to do a symphonic tour in 1997/98, as if Al was going to replace Mike and Carl. But there's no way Al could have done a Beach Boys tour with zero BRI shareholder support. So the accusation doesn't really hold much water. And *that* is what occurs a lot in the book. A lot of accusations that are presented like "smoking guns" that actually don't really amount to much. Scattered single-shot anecdotes that always reflect negatively on *someone else*, that appear to be an attempt to backup something Mike did or said, but don't seem to actually amount to much of a real reason.

Same thing with C50. Mike says he got the "no more shows" e-mail, and implies it was *at that point* that he began booking his own shows. But he also says at other points it was *always* going to be short run tour. So the "no more shows" email, despite being presented as a reason Mike booked his own shows, isn't *really* actually a reason. He was going to do it anyway.

Or when Mike mentions the multiple times he threatened to quit in the middle of C50. He then mentions he (obviously) comes back, but he doesn't ever really go into the likely *obvious* reason that contributed to that decision: avoiding being sued into oblivion.

Bottom line: Most people won't have their mind changed by this book. If you have already felt Mike hasn't done anything particularly heinous, the book won't make you think otherwise.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 09:19:24 AM by HeyJude » Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
GhostyTMRS
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 722



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2016, 09:32:33 AM »

Ironically, I would say that Mike's book has more of an air of addressing a myriad of individual accusations than most autobiographies I read.

It's far from the first "score settling" autobiography. But at least some autobiographies seem to at least be more grounded in a "I might have an interesting story to tell, so here it is..." vibe, whereas Mike's is *very much* a "I'm pissed about all the stuff people have been saying about me, so here's my side."

Mike doesn't owe anyone any explanations due to his book or anything else (I guess unless lawsuits materialize as a result), but he chose to write a book and people are going to scrutinize what he's writing. Some stuff he says is basic biographical information (some new to the book, a lot as well that has been told in countless other books), some stuff is individual anecdotes, other things are more general impressions and opinions, and so on.

Obviously, a lot of hardcore fans are going to go into this book rather incredulous at the outset. We should keep open minds, but a lot of fan (and press) incredulity has been caused by decades of Mike, well, being Mike. In any event, there are *a lot* of "hrmmmm" moments in this thing. On occasion, it's a literal "I think that might be incorrect" thing. But often, it's more of a "if you stop and think about that, it doesn't make any sense." For instance, in my voluminous notes posted in other book thread, I mention Mike being offended that Al wanted to do a symphonic tour in 1997/98, as if Al was going to replace Mike and Carl. But there's no way Al could have done a Beach Boys tour with zero BRI shareholder support. So the accusation doesn't really hold much water. And *that* is what occurs a lot in the book. A lot of accusations that are presented like "smoking guns" that actually don't really amount to much. Scattered single-shot anecdotes that always reflect negatively on *someone else*, that appear to be an attempt to backup something Mike did or said, but don't seem to actually amount to much of a real reason.

Same thing with C50. Mike says he got the "no more shows" e-mail, and implies it was *at that point* that he began booking his own shows. But he also says at other points it was *always* going to be short run tour. So the "no more shows" email, despite being presented as a reason Mike booked his own shows, isn't *really* actually a reason. He was going to do it anyway.

Or when Mike mentions the multiple times he threatened to quit in the middle of C50. He then mentions he (obviously) comes back, but he doesn't ever really go into the likely *obvious* reason that contributed to that decision: avoiding being sued into oblivion.

Bottom line: Most people won't have their mind changed by this book. If you have already felt Mike hasn't done anything particularly heinous, the book won't make you think otherwise.

For me, I went into it as a Beach Boys fan. I know the story and the timeline of events backwards and forwards so if Mike can add some missing pieces to the puzzle, I'm all for it. I expect the same from Brian's book. Incidentally, I interviewed Mike 2 weeks ago for my radio show (a longer version will air this weekend) but, sadly, I didn't have the book at that point.
Logged
The_Beach
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 430


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2016, 09:50:10 AM »

That guys does not know what the heck he is talking about just like most media sources!
Logged
gfx
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.991 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!