Mike opens up about Melinda.

[kermit27]

Our user "Cool Water" wrote about the soundcheck and Mike asking Brian if Ambha could sing SOS:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,13127.msg280436.html#msg280436

Thank you!  I knew I remembered that Brian joked, "That's one of my leads!" but I couldn't remember where I heard the story.

[bossaroo]

man you guys are a patient lot. I stopped addressing fdp directly a long time ago for obvious reasons.

I guess in her roundabout way she is confirming that indeed Mike has offered two very different accounts of Melinda using the f-word, to whom she was addressing, and about whom she was describing.

so yes, Mike took an isolated incident from early in the C50 tour in which Melinda was standing up for her husband, spun it around and completely changed the specifics in an attempt to explain why the reunion fell apart. once again, he is deflecting the blame onto someone else and inventing yet another false reason as to why the reunion didn't continue.

and it only took 7 pages to get to the bottom of this!  

I can't deny, this does sum it up quite well. Well put!

[filledeplage]

What I think is rude is the continuing harangue about a book that you have not read and compared to an unsigned article.

What I think is rude is purposely trolling a thread and refusing to discuss the *actual topic* of the thread in question. It's also potentially rude to imply with no evidence that CBS is fabricating stories or quotes.

I'd say this thread should just be locked, but I think that's what the purpose of trolling this thread is. Is there another solution?

I don't know how many here saw the video yesterday that has since - thankfully - been removed.  What I read in the article appears to be a transcript of the interview, verbatim, so I don't think attributing authorship is necessary.  It's a transcript. CBS has published it.   I heard the quote indicated in this written link and it was in Mike's voice with his usual semi-tearful comments as he launches an attack.  

I'd love to think we can move on from the trolling, but I seriously doubt it.

Debbie - I saw no video.  There is a disparity as between the article and the book.  A lot in the media is edited for whatever reason whether for space or time or whatever.  All I can say is that the words are not an overlay as between the book and the article.  Whether things got lost in translation or whatever.  I can't speak to that.  Nor should I be expected to account for the discrepancy as between the two.  

Then show some respect for those of us who saw it and recognize the script - offered by CBS - is a transcript.  It's a blatant discrepancy.

The video was never brought up and I never saw it.  Whose fault is it that there is a discrepancy?  Not mine.  I merely pointed out that it did not match what was in the book, that most who opined here, did not read and declared that they were not going to read.  

That is not disrespect.  That, disrespect (and baiting) was directed towards me.  I took the time to read the book, share some of the insights that I found significant in BB history (such as the last tour that Carl did) and got pounced on.  

[Debbie KL]

CSM - here is the disconnect.  The nameless-byline article has a different version of the account from the book.  Read it or don't read it - your choice.   You have a page to look at.  Can't be more specific than that.  

More specifically, Mike is quoted as having a different version of the account from the book. And like I said above, there are numerous possibilities as to why there is a disjunction.

If it is the case that the article is fabricated, I would be curious as to your thoughts as to why Mike Love's Twitter account linked to what appears to have been an earlier version of the same story from CBS on his twitter account:

https://twitter.com/MikeLoveOFCL/status/776431117133946880

Quite interesting though that that article, which led one Twitter follower to observe that it's a shame how "things were/are so contentious" leading me to believe that the substance of the two articles was probably similar.

Did I say it was fabricated?  I don't think so and do not put words in my mouth.  I said there were discrepancies as between the two which Smiley-morphed into "fabrication." This is Mike's book.  I like what I read in Brian's book preview and will read that, too.  

Have a great weekend!  

He didn't accuse you, but asked you, and as usual you twisted his words.  Does the "Have a great weekend!" mean your off for a few days?  Somehow, I think not.

[bossaroo]

pretty interesting that the video has been pulled, huh? can't find it anywhere.

perhaps litigation proceedings are under way?  

[HeyJude]

Did I say it was fabricated?  I don't think so and do not put words in my mouth.  I said there were discrepancies as between the two which Smiley-morphed into "fabrication."

Nope. Let's back up. We're not talking about discrepancies between the interview and the book. That was a question pages ago and you were the one that derailed that discussion by saying only the book should even be considered and implying the interview wasn't germane to the discussion even though it's actually the very topic of the discussion.

You most certainly were calling the CBS article into question by questioning the byline of the article NUMEROUS times. What's the point of referencing the lack of byline several times other than to call the article's veracity into question?

S**t, bossaroo is right.  

[Chocolate Shake Man]

And also this:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,24401.msg590114.html#msg590114

[HeyJude]

most who opined here, did not read and declared that they were not going to read.  

Have "most" people really actually said they're not going to read the book? Really?

That sounds like something that's just crafted to fit a narrative that detractors "aren't even reading the book." As I've been saying, I assumed this would probably happen. I just didn't think someone would play that card so early and so hard, only three days after the book came out.

[Debbie KL]

man you guys are a patient lot. I stopped addressing fdp directly a long time ago for obvious reasons.

I guess in her roundabout way she is confirming that indeed Mike has offered two very different accounts of Melinda using the f-word, to whom she was addressing, and about whom she was describing.

so yes, Mike took an isolated incident from early in the C50 tour in which Melinda was standing up for her husband, spun it around and completely changed the specifics in an attempt to explain why the reunion fell apart. once again, he is deflecting the blame onto someone else and inventing yet another false reason as to why the reunion didn't continue.

and it only took 7 pages to get to the bottom of this!  

I can't deny, this does sum it up quite well. Well put!

And once again, we're left with Mike's words, that seem to change according to convenience.

The wonderful news appears to be that Brian's book shows no signs in the previews of being some self-serving tabloid garbage.  Maybe we'll finally have some "Peace and Love."  I'm looking forward to reading that book.  As far as being cajoled into buying Mike's book, I'll need more than what I've seen so far to get me to go near it.  My responses are to FdP's own accounting of Mike's bio.  Is she now going to argue her own credibility?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

And also this:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,24401.msg590114.html#msg590114

Checkmate.

[HeyJude]

pretty interesting that the video has been pulled, huh? can't find it anywhere.

perhaps litigation proceedings are under way?  

Normally, it would be a he said-she said scenario. But yeah, if Mike's own interview contradicts what he wrote in the book, and especially if the "interview version" is the incorrect version, then that is kind of a serious deal potentially.

[Juice Brohnston]

pretty interesting that the video has been pulled, huh? can't find it anywhere.

perhaps litigation proceedings are under way?  

Normally, it would be a he said-she said scenario. But yeah, if Mike's own interview contradicts what he wrote in the book, and especially if the "interview version" is the incorrect version, then that is kind of a serious deal potentially.

Definitely, two different meanings. The book quote is Melinda claiming to be Brian's partner, where the interview seems to allude to her saying she was Mike's partner.

Jeez, hash all that crap out at the beginning of the tour, then let the musicians play their music. Mike shouldn't be trying to insert his daughter (or Stamos) into the reunion shows. Too much talent on stage for that, let's hear the original guys sing. And Melinda shouldn't be slapping auto tune devices on mic's or making decisions related to the stage, at least not on the fly while the tour is in progress. It really is a miracle this thing went off at all.

[CenturyDeprived]

pretty interesting that the video has been pulled, huh? can't find it anywhere.

perhaps litigation proceedings are under way?  

Normally, it would be a he said-she said scenario. But yeah, if Mike's own interview contradicts what he wrote in the book, and especially if the "interview version" is the incorrect version, then that is kind of a serious deal potentially.

Definitely, two different meanings. The book quote is Melinda claiming to be Brian's partner, where the interview seems to allude to her saying she was Mike's partner.

Jeez, hash all that crap out at the beginning of the tour, then let the musicians play their music. Mike shouldn't be trying to insert his daughter (or Stamos) into the reunion shows. Too much talent on stage for that, let's hear the original guys sing. And Melinda shouldn't be slapping auto tune devices on mic's or making decisions related to the stage, at least not on the fly while the tour is in progress. It really is a miracle this thing went off at all.

A real question is what would have happened if Ambha was going to sing one of Mike's leads instead? I wonder if that would have posed the same level of pushback.

[GhostyTMRS]

I can't speak to the CBS video (haven't seen it and evidently it's gone now). What Mike says in the book is in a nutshell:

1. He met with Brian and Melinda about the reunion tour. He was assured he would be writing some songs with Brian. Brian tells him "We still got it, Mike!".
2. Then Mike is told they must only use songs from Joe Thomas' stockpile. Mike is given a few lines to write to placate him. When Mike asks what happened to the agreement that he would write songs with Brian, Melinda tells him "Brian doesn't write like that anymore".
3. An agreement is made that Brian controls the studio side of things and Mike will control the concert side.
4. At rehearsals, Mike finds the setlist he drew up is altered and that Melinda has asked for autotune to be applied to their live mics. The guys all refuse except for Brian.
5. The "partner" argument as discussed (ad nauseum) here...I believe Mike is referring to himself as Brian's partner, as in they both should control the music side of things. An argument ensues. Mike walks. He agrees to come back only if Melinda is banned from rehearsals. She complies.
6. The "Sail On Sailor" situation. Melinda asks what would Mike say if her daughter wanted to sing one of Mike's lead. Mike's wife says he'd be cool with that.   
7. Mike calls the tour the most stressful tour he's ever been on. The tour employs more people than it can afford to pay and loses money until they go overseas.
8. The "no more shows" email comes as a response from Mike (or his team?) about an offer to go to Israel.  


Obviously, there's much more about the C50 tour in there but those were the takeaways for me (YMMV) and anyone interested would be better served by actually reading that section.

[HeyJude]

6. The "Sail On Sailor" situation. Melinda asks what would Mike say if her daughter wanted to sing one of Mike's lead. Mike's wife says he'd be cool with that.   

Okay, someone has to get Brian's daughter Daria to crash one of Mike's upcoming shows and ask to sing "Kokomo." 

I have a lot of issues with Mike’s take on C50, but I’ll hold off on that and make sure it’s thorough, and post in in the proper thread.

[Juice Brohnston]

I can't speak to the CBS video (haven't seen it and evidently it's gone now). What Mike says in the book is in a nutshell:

1. He met with Brian and Melinda about the reunion tour. He was assured he would be writing some songs with Brian. Brian tells him "We still got it, Mike!".
2. Then Mike is told they must only use songs from Joe Thomas' stockpile. Mike is given a few lines to write to placate him. When Mike asks what happened to the agreement that he would write songs with Brian, Melinda tells him "Brian doesn't write like that anymore".
3. An agreement is made that Brian controls the studio side of things and Mike will control the concert side.
4. At rehearsals, Mike finds the setlist he drew up is altered and that Melinda has asked for autotune to be applied to their live mics. The guys all refuse except for Brian.
5. The "partner" argument as discussed (ad nauseum) here...I believe Mike is referring to himself as Brian's partner, as in they both should control the music side of things. An argument ensues. Mike walks. He agrees to come back only if Melinda is banned from rehearsals. She complies.
6. The "Sail On Sailor" situation. Melinda asks what would Mike say if her daughter wanted to sing one of Mike's lead. Mike's wife says he'd be cool with that.   
7. Mike calls the tour the most stressful tour he's ever been on. The tour employs more people than it can afford to pay and loses money until they go overseas.
8. The "no more shows" email comes as a response from Mike (or his team?) about an offer to go to Israel.  


Obviously, there's much more about the C50 tour in there but those were the takeaways for me (YMMV) and anyone interested would be better served by actually reading that section.

Thanks Ghosty. I am reading currently, though only at Manson chapter.
So what are your thoughts? First, do you get a sense that these events, as you laid out above genuinely happened? I can see how this started to unravel, and it doesn't mean either side is blameless.

[HeyJude]

3. An agreement is made that Brian controls the studio side of things and Mike will control the concert side.

Poor Al..... Seriously.

[GhostyTMRS]

I can't speak to the CBS video (haven't seen it and evidently it's gone now). What Mike says in the book is in a nutshell:

1. He met with Brian and Melinda about the reunion tour. He was assured he would be writing some songs with Brian. Brian tells him "We still got it, Mike!".
2. Then Mike is told they must only use songs from Joe Thomas' stockpile. Mike is given a few lines to write to placate him. When Mike asks what happened to the agreement that he would write songs with Brian, Melinda tells him "Brian doesn't write like that anymore".
3. An agreement is made that Brian controls the studio side of things and Mike will control the concert side.
4. At rehearsals, Mike finds the setlist he drew up is altered and that Melinda has asked for autotune to be applied to their live mics. The guys all refuse except for Brian.
5. The "partner" argument as discussed (ad nauseum) here...I believe Mike is referring to himself as Brian's partner, as in they both should control the music side of things. An argument ensues. Mike walks. He agrees to come back only if Melinda is banned from rehearsals. She complies.
6. The "Sail On Sailor" situation. Melinda asks what would Mike say if her daughter wanted to sing one of Mike's lead. Mike's wife says he'd be cool with that.   
7. Mike calls the tour the most stressful tour he's ever been on. The tour employs more people than it can afford to pay and loses money until they go overseas.
8. The "no more shows" email comes as a response from Mike (or his team?) about an offer to go to Israel.  


Obviously, there's much more about the C50 tour in there but those were the takeaways for me (YMMV) and anyone interested would be better served by actually reading that section.

Thanks Ghosty. I am reading currently, though only at Manson chapter.
So what are your thoughts? First, do you get a sense that these events, as you laid out above genuinely happened? I can see how this started to unravel, and it doesn't mean either side is blameless.

As with any of these things, there are two sides to every story and I a) keep an open mind and b) thank God the music is so good that I can brush off these inter-band squabbles.
I'm wondering if Brian will address any thing about it in his book, but I have a feeling that Mike's book is the "event and date" book whereas Brian's will be more about the creative process.

[CenturyDeprived]

I can't speak to the CBS video (haven't seen it and evidently it's gone now). What Mike says in the book is in a nutshell:

1. He met with Brian and Melinda about the reunion tour. He was assured he would be writing some songs with Brian. Brian tells him "We still got it, Mike!".
2. Then Mike is told they must only use songs from Joe Thomas' stockpile. Mike is given a few lines to write to placate him. When Mike asks what happened to the agreement that he would write songs with Brian, Melinda tells him "Brian doesn't write like that anymore".
 

I can understand and empathize that this must have been a frustrating situation for Mike. But the thing is, Mike hasn't been around Brian much, if at all, for the last couple of decades. And he hasn't written a new record with Brian in the old-fashioned way for a LONG while before that. During this time, Brian has gone through lots of changes, regarding meds, gaining more general emotional stability, etc. Brian's a SPECIAL CASE, and for Brian to even still be with us on planet Earth after all he's been through is a miracle. I'm sure Brian's comfort level has been carefully curated/aided by the people around him, to make sure that potential stressors are minimized. None of us know the exact parameters of this. Jeff probably has a good idea. In any case, that means that some things are simply gonna be different.  

It's not just like these are factors that can simply be ignored, but there doesn't seem to be any (from the points listed above by GhostyTMRS) acknowledgement of this stuff from Mike. It seems to me (without having read the book yet) that Mike is implying in the book, "why isn't writing songs with Brian exactly the way it used to be?", with a giant dumbfounded look and shrug. That's my takeaway. If I'm wrong, I happily stand to be corrected.

But none of these points can be realistically made by Mike without him showing some sort of understanding that there are legit REASONS why Brian's songwriting and support system is what it is. Doesn't mean it's a flawless system, nor does it mean that other people aren't sometimes gonna feel shut out. It's surely imperfect, but publicly complaining about it without ALSO showing any understanding whatsoever comes off as just plain ridiculous. And incredibly insensitive and immature to not show any sort of balance. It's ALL about Mike, without him "getting" why there might be obstacles which, while frustrating, might have a legit reason to exist - obstacles that exist which weren't in place due to any sort of direct intention of screwing over Mike Love.

In any case, some of Brian's solo albums are great, some are not so great. There are surely reasons for this, including inspiration (or lack thereof), or probably just some experimenting behind the scenes in terms of how things are done, and modifying those parameters from time to time. I feel confident that Brian and Mike could absolutely have come to a place where they'd be working together again in a more organic way, but there's NO WAY that was gonna happen if Mike was gonna start throwing his weight around, acting like a victim, and giving ultimatums, as it seems was the case from the very beginning of this reunion. There's a REASON why, for example, a record like That Lucky Old Sun is so rad. You can bet that Scott wasn't giving ultimatums and complaining about how much he got to (or didn't get to) do in the studio with Brian. He probably knew his place, he went with the flow, and eventually a rad album came to be. Mike, by comparison, brought WAY too much baggage, EGO, and unrealistic short-term expectation to the table. That's perspective.

Even though Mike was a longterm bandmate of Brian's, and not a hired hand, it doesn't mean that he doesn't have to selflessly take these things into consideration. IMHO, it doesn't seem like he has much nuance for grasping this concept.

[HeyJude]

As I mentioned, I'll go into more detail later on in a more detailed thread, but the deal with Capitol for the album was scored based on Joe/Brian songs. It's presumably what *they* wanted. There was also a time crunch as well to get the album done before the tour started.

One does wish that they had just further placated Mike and stuck him in a room with Brian for a few days to either wring out some songs or prove that the spark isn't there, and either way put that complaint to rest.

Melinda would probably know more about how Brian writes now than Mike would. When was the last significant Brian/Mike collaboration, where the two of them worked on songs from scratch? Maybe a few songs on "Keepin' the Summer Alive" recorded in 1979?

[Scaroline No]

most who opined here, did not read and declared that they were not going to read.  

Have "most" people really actually said they're not going to read the book? Really?

That sounds like something that's just crafted to fit a narrative that detractors "aren't even reading the book." As I've been saying, I assumed this would probably happen. I just didn't think someone would play that card so early and so hard, only three days after the book came out.

FWIW, I haven't commented on this thread but I've been following all day...  I'm a Brian fan to the core, and though I wouldn't say I'm a fan of Mike's, I'm still gonna read Mike's book. I feel like taking in all the perspectives doesn't necessarily mean I have to adopt everything I read as being gospel, but it sure does contribute to a larger understanding of the whole.

[CenturyDeprived]

most who opined here, did not read and declared that they were not going to read.  

Have "most" people really actually said they're not going to read the book? Really?

That sounds like something that's just crafted to fit a narrative that detractors "aren't even reading the book." As I've been saying, I assumed this would probably happen. I just didn't think someone would play that card so early and so hard, only three days after the book came out.

FWIW, I haven't commented on this thread but I've been following all day...  I'm a Brian fan to the core, and though I wouldn't say I'm a fan of Mike's, I'm still gonna read Mike's book. I feel like taking in all the perspectives doesn't necessarily mean I have to adopt everything I read as being gospel, but it sure does contribute to a larger understanding of the whole.

A very fair opinion. I feel similarly.

[terrei]

Wow this thread expanded to 8 pages since I posted! Sorry if the following was already posted and clarified:

Would Mike's wife have been happy at the idea of Carnie or Wendy joining in? And they have had a career in music.

Here is half of the relevant passage from the book:

I asked Brian if Ambha could sing “Sail On, Sailor,” which was one of his leads, for this one concert on the tour. He said yes. During sound check, Ambha asked Brian as well. He agreed but was skeptical that a girl so young could actually do it. Then the band played the song, and Ambha was awesome.
“Wow,” Brian said, “you did it better than me.”
We were good to go, but then backstage, Melinda, their son Dylan in tow, stormed up to Jacquelyne and contended that Ambha should be singing one of my leads, not one of Brian’s. She asked how I would feel if Dylan sang “California Girls.”
Jacquelyn said that I would have no problem with that as long as Dylan could sing it well.

Here are other relevant passages from a couple pages earlier:

The crux of the partnership, according to Joe Thomas, Brian’s producer, was that Brian would be “king of the studio” (for the new album), while I would be “king of the road” (for the tour).  ...

.. I consulted with Brian on the anniversary set list—he didn’t want the lead on “Sloop John B” because he didn’t want to sing about fighting—and I drew up the songs that would work for the integrated band. I assumed everything was in place. But when I arrived at our first rehearsal, Melinda was already there, and incredibly, she had changed the set list. She had also ordered five Auto-Tune devices, to correct off-key vocals, and attached them to the mics used by Brian, Al, Bruce, David, and me. But no one used the device except Brian, no one else wanted to use it, and they shouldn’t have been purchased and installed without approval.

I’d had enough. I told Melinda that she wasn’t where she was supposed to be and reminded her that I was in charge of the tour.

“You know what’s wrong with you, Mike Love,” she said. “You’ve got a fucking chip on your shoulder.”

“Really? Well, me and my fucking chip are out of here. Enjoy the tour.” And I walked out.

Joe Thomas and John Branca, who was one of Brian’s former lawyers and was now serving as a co-consultant on the fiftieth anniversary efforts, called me to try to mend the fences, and I told them I would return only if Melinda was banned from rehearsals until the final day, when the press arrived. They agreed, and we continued on.

[CenturyDeprived]

Here are other relevant passages from a couple pages earlier:

She had also ordered five Auto-Tune devices, to correct off-key vocals, and attached them to the mics used by Brian, Al, Bruce, David, and me. But no one used the device except Brian, no one else wanted to use it, and they shouldn’t have been purchased and installed without approval.

I’d had enough. I told Melinda that she wasn’t where she was supposed to be and reminded her that I was in charge of the tour.

“You know what’s wrong with you, Mike Love,” she said. “You’ve got a fucking chip on your shoulder.”

“Really? Well, me and my fucking chip are out of here. Enjoy the tour.” And I walked out.
 

 

Firstly, Mike does have a chip on his shoulder coloring his actions.

Secondly, I agree with Mike that I don't think it's cool for Melinda to have put Autotune devices on stage without the band members having input on that decision.  Then again, I wonder if Mike was actually really all that upset about it at the time. Would he have been pissed if she had just put a vocal reverb pedal (with on/off switch) in the pedal chain on everyone's mic? Most all pedals, Autotune or not, can usually be turned on and off at will, by the band members.

I do find it hard to swallow that he has such an aversion to pitch correction for many reasons which I don't really even need to mention here.

Thirdly, this is all just really sad. Mike had some legit gripes, and I can empathize with them. Doesn't mean he gets a free pass to not acknowledge other stuff of his own doing in the book. Can we all just agree on that point? If Melinda acted uncool to Mike sometimes (and I don't doubt this), it doesn't mean it happened in a vacuum.

[Juice Brohnston]

Agreed on the fact that Brian's process probably had changed since the Love/WIlson days. Also, I may be naive but in anticipation of this reunion, could Mike have not started seriously working with Bruce on some songs, and bring a bunch of stuff to the table that, if good, could not have been ignored? I mean the fact that Bruce was talking about submitting a redo of She Believes in Love Again, is mind boggling. Yes I sympathize with Mike somewhat if he was told one thing and it didn't pan out. And Mike points out in his book that he is a procrastinator, but man here's your shot. Wow everyone with some demos and get yourself re-invited to the party.

Now Joe Thomas was providing some of the financial wherewithal for this tour? Was that a factor in how the album(credits) was to play out?