Mike opens up about Melinda.

[thorgil]

Debbie, the mediocre don't like genius, or great talent (for example, see how Mozart was treated in that awful "Amadeus" movie). Nor do they like, or respect, people with mental issues (no need of examples here). Brian falls under both categories. That, imho, is more than sufficient to explain the relentless attempts to "diminish" Brian by many people, sadly including a good number of BB "fans".

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

A quick listen to Scott's other work shows pretty well how much Brian was involved. No way was that all Bennett.

[thorgil]

Yes, and I am still waiting for the solo masterpieces by Joe Thomas.

P.S.
This is not meant to disparage Brian's collaborators, each of which has been very important in his own way.

[HeyJude]

Concerning Brian's recent studio work with Joe Thomas, I think fans and spectators could be forgiven for being confused as far as who did what and how much each contributed.

Many folks have pointed out that Thomas wasn't involved in later NPP sessions. The indication seems to be Thomas was *less* involved in the production of NPP than he was on TWGMTR. Yet, Thomas got a full co-producer credit on NPP while he only got a "Recorded by" credit on TWGMTR (a credit seemingly made up that I guess is meant to fall somewhere below "producer" but above "engineer").

Producers and co-producers play different roles on different projects. Some of the folks in Brian's solo career who have been his right-hand man in the studio on various projects are folks who probably, in certain circumstances, might warrant a co-producer credit based on some folks' criteria. *If* Thomas warranted a full co-producer credit on NPP, he probably warranted one on TWGMTR. But we don't know how all the deals and contracts look. Thomas may well get "producer points" on TWGMTR despite the politically and functionally ambiguous "Recorded by" credit.

My other main thing with Thomas is that I disagree with any assertions that he isn't a prominent part of Brian's last two studio projects even if he exited the studio/producer role at some point during the NPP sessions. I say that only because *most* of the songs on those last two albums are co-written by Joe. Between Joe co-writing them, often helping with producing the backing tracks, and Brian also taking on some of Joe's arrangement ticks (claves, oboes, etc.), I do still hear a Thomas stamp on the stuff to varying degrees.

I don't think there is some vast conspiracy of other people churning stuff out and sticking Brian's name on it. But I certainly would love to hear a more "pure" Brian project, perhaps something with just him and piano and not much else. I think *creatively* Brian could do it. But guys like Thomas are the rare folks who Brian *likes* working with and can help get projects finished. Say what you want about Thomas (and I have plenty of issues with his production/arrangement style), but he has been able to do on multiple projects what a bunch of other guys like Gary Usher, Andy Paley, Don Was, Sean O'Hagan, etc. weren't able to do, and that is to aid Brian in finishing a project and getting it released.

And to get back to the topic of how this related to Mike, I think one of the problems Brian would have in working with Mike is that it wouldn't necessarily be productive in terms of getting projects released. "Baywatch Nights" sounds totally lame, and they couldn't even make that happen, even with Don Was involved (and Was was hotter as a producer in the early-mid 90s especially).

[Jim V.]

And to get back to the topic of how this related to Mike, I think one of the problems Brian would have in working with Mike is that it wouldn't necessarily be productive in terms of getting projects released. "Baywatch Nights" sounds totally lame, and they couldn't even make that happen, even with Don Was involved (and Was was hotter as a producer in the early-mid 90s especially).

I agree with you that the title "Baywatch Nights" is lame, but you don't think the song (or at least what of it got recorded) wasn't good do you? I thought it sounded great with a nice stompin', rockin' instrumental track and a nice vocal from Carl, along with the perfect Beach Boys "somewhere out in Malibu!" group vocal line. I really thought that this track shoulda been brought back out during the reunion as, first of all, it included Carl (but was not an outtake, just an unfinished thing from their last unfinished original project) and secondly cuz it sounded like an uptempo Beach Boys classic, but not in the pastiche type way that Al's "PT Cruiser", Mike's "Camp California" or Brian's "Desert Drive" came off.

In fact, I still think it would be worth finishing, even if they can't all get together, perhaps as a *new* track on some new project in the next few years. Get Brian and Al (and hey, why not Blondie) to do their vocals and then Mike and Bruce as well. And then you have a new Beach Boys track, something to get people's attention, and a nice little tribute to Carl with a great performance from him.* I know this won't happen though, cuz it won't involve Brian and Mike in a room writing together.

Sorry though, I know I went way off on a tangent.


*Unlike "Waves of Love" which, though I personally love it, did not seem to be Carl giving his all on what he thought would be a releasable vocal.

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

I wish that "Waves of Love" had just used a single-tracked lead vocal by Carl. I don't know what it would have sounded like, but my problem with the song is the poor synch of the double-tracking.

[thorgil]

Welcome back S. D. Jim! I feared you were lost in "stranger" land!

[guitarfool2002]

Some of the last true momentum for original material with Brian and Mike writing was the period after Brian got away from Landy, when Was had the documentary going, and when Was reported Mike and Brian were writing together and dozens of songs were in the pipeline. For more detailed info search some of my archived posts on the subject, including Don's humorous take on how "Baywatch Nights" came together. Some misconceptions were also shattered, including the fact that as soon as he could, Brian asked Don to approach the Beach Boys about working together on new material, and they did. And that Mike would have been in Don's film had there not been a lawsuit.

I just mention that so I'm not repeating myself on a topic that's been discussed a lot, but consider what happened and specifically how and why it never happened.

And what I still vividly recall as a fan was reading at least two interviews with Don Was from this time, and getting really excited about this "reunion" of the band. I was excited to hear this "Baywatch Nights" track knowing from the Was interview that Brian and Mike had cooked it up together. Then I waited, and waited, and waited...kept checking TV Guide for Baywatch and Baywatch Nights listings where the song or songs might be broadcast.

When Baywatch finally did feature the BB's, it was for lack of a better term a debacle. "Summer Of Love". John Stamos behind an electronic drum set on the beach, closeups on Mike and numerous dancing models...again, I've said all that before and it's old ground.

But I still can't get over the disappointment and thinking in a major way how they simply blew a terrific opportunity. Blew it. The reunion of Brian and the band cast Brian as an extra on the beach as a song several years old played on the soundtrack.

Then the recorded tracks themselves, the new songs...they were scrapped.

So all of this about reunions and writing together and all of that stuff - It happened, then what happened within the band managed to derail it. For all of those who always want a reunion, who want a co-writing session in that room with a piano or in a studio, it actually did happen and original songs were created. Instead of going down that route, they put "Summer Of Love" on TV as the song to push, complete with video. And it went nowhere, as expected. Were the other sessions in the can from Was and Paley any worse than that Baywatch appearance? Yet they chose not to go that direction.

[thorgil]

I don't dispute for a moment that Joe Thomas was more or less heavily involved in TWGMTR and NPP. As HeyJude said, the credits themselves confirm that!
Still, more "claves and oboes" don't necessarily mean more Joe Thomas involvement.  Brian has always loved mellow sounds and never more than now ("mellow" may be one of his favourite words). So claves, oboes, flutes etc. aren't necessarily Joe's choices, though he is surely favourable.
And by the way, I happen to love those sounds, too, and maybe that explains why I seem to like TWGMTR, and especially NPP, more than the average Joe (not Thomas).

[HeyJude]

It's impossible to know who contributed what to the actual recorded backing track arrangements. I feel like the particular fashion some of the claves/oboes, etc. are used are much of the Joe Thomas "adult contemporary" sort than how Brian used instrumentation in the 60s. It's quite possible Brian likes the sound now and uses it more as a result of Joe's influence as well.

I don't have anything against any given instrument or sound; I just think there's too much plinky, tinkly stuff on a lot of the stuff Joe Thomas has worked on with Brian. It's just grates on me eventually. I wish I could just mix out the percussion on something like "Summer's Gone."

I love "Strange World", but when the instruments come in behind the piano in the intro section, it starts sounding like a "Full House" music cue for a few moments.

[Debbie KL]

It's impossible to know who contributed what to the actual recorded backing track arrangements. I feel like the particular fashion some of the claves/oboes, etc. are used are much of the Joe Thomas "adult contemporary" sort than how Brian used instrumentation in the 60s. It's quite possible Brian likes the sound now and uses it more as a result of Joe's influence as well.

I don't have anything against any given instrument or sound; I just think there's too much plinky, tinkly stuff on a lot of the stuff Joe Thomas has worked on with Brian. It's just grates on me eventually. I wish I could just mix out the percussion on something like "Summer's Gone."

I love "Strange World", but when the instruments come in behind the piano in the intro section, it starts sounding like a "Full House" music cue for a few moments.

It's not like I disagree with any of this, nor with you on anything that you've said.

I guess I just love so much of TWGMTR and NPP, and appreciate how hard I was told that Brian worked on them, that I'm happy overall.  And Joe working with Brian seems to help get the job done, when he's involved.

Referencing Mike Love, I have a strong suspicion that he wasn't around much for the recording or mixing sessions beyond doing his parts.  If he doesn't like what Brian did with the recordings, or processing his voice to suit Brian's desired sound, he's certainly free to express that.  It's just a bit ironic when vocal processing on his own few releases is so obvious.