How Good Vibes and I Ran could fit together

[leetwall97]

The final version of Wind Chimes sounds amazing. I would love to know what the main chorus vocals were. According to documentation, Brian sang them. Does any one of us mortals know if the Durrie Parks acetates include this. Does any one of us ignorant mortals want to try and replicate this?

What's also interesting is that this disproves the theory that Wind Chimes is air. Brian finished Wind Chimes. We've just never heard it. So the piano tag in WC is NOT the unfinished piano piece for air.

[Bicyclerider]

The main chorus vocals  are on The Smile Sessions and on the Good Vibrations box.  To me it sounds like Vosse is describing the "bom, bom bom, bom bom bom bom bom bom" chorus we've all heard, but apparently on this lost acetate, instead of all the voices coming at once, he fades in the voices one at a time and gets them to sound like percussive instruments.  Think "bom" like a thump on a bass drum.  No, this mix was not on the Durrie Parks acetates.

[soniclovenoize]

What's also interesting is that this disproves the theory that Wind Chimes is air. Brian finished Wind Chimes. We've just never heard it. So the piano tag in WC is NOT the unfinished piano piece for air.

Not necessarily. 

[leetwall97]

The main chorus vocals  are on The Smile Sessions and on the Good Vibrations box.  To me it sounds like Vosse is describing the "bom, bom bom, bom bom bom bom bom bom" chorus we've all heard, but apparently on this lost acetate, instead of all the voices coming at once, he fades in the voices one at a time and gets them to sound like percussive instruments.  Think "bom" like a thump on a bass drum.  No, this mix was not on the Durrie Parks acetates.

The main chorus vocals are lost. Brian sang lead on vocals. And yeah, I like that idea of the "bom-bom bom-be-bom-bee" bringing in the other vocals. That's probably what he was talking about. I also suspect there were harmony vocals in the verses too that might've followed this patter. Another thing I think he might be mentioning, on the reference to changing rhythm, is the the false start with the chorus vocals we hear on some bootlegs. It's funny and it helps us transition to the different tempo in the chorus better.

[leetwall97]

Not necessarily. 

I use to think the same way. But I now do honestly believe that Wind Chimes is just Wind Chimes. At the moment, I'm totally 50-50 on it. That unfinished piano piece Brian mentioned is probably the link in Love to Say Dada, the one in between Part 2 & Part 2 (2nd Day). Brian plays the full piece on the Cool, Cool Water Version 2 track on the Smile Sessions Box Set, right after he runs through cool, cool water's verse. I think this piece is where people get the "Country Air was the air section" theory, because the piano section he plays has a bit where I can easily sing "get a breath of that country air". And I can totally understand that. The air version of Love to Say Dada is in the key of G, so is the Country Air verses.

[soniclovenoize]

I use to think the same way. But I now do honestly believe that Wind Chimes is just Wind Chimes. At the moment, I'm totally 50-50 on it. That unfinished piano piece Brian mentioned is probably the link in Love to Say Dada, the one in between Part 2 & Part 2 (2nd Day). Brian plays the full piece on the Cool, Cool Water Version 2 track on the Smile Sessions Box Set, right after he runs through cool, cool water's verse. I think this piece is where people get the "Country Air was the air section" theory, because the piano section he plays has a bit where I can easily sing "get a breath of that country air". And I can totally understand that. The air version of Love to Say Dada is in the key of G, so is the Country Air verses.

I don't mean all of Wind Chimes, just the tag.   The tag to Wind Chimes fits this description of Air.  It's a piano piece that was never finished (because Wind Chimes was remade from scratch for Smiley Smile), and obviously the connection between air and wind. 

[Bicyclerider]

The main chorus vocals  are on The Smile Sessions and on the Good Vibrations box.  To me it sounds like Vosse is describing the "bom, bom bom, bom bom bom bom bom bom" chorus we've all heard, but apparently on this lost acetate, instead of all the voices coming at once, he fades in the voices one at a time and gets them to sound like percussive instruments.  Think "bom" like a thump on a bass drum.  No, this mix was not on the Durrie Parks acetates.

The main chorus vocals are lost. Brian sang lead on vocals. And yeah, I like that idea of the "bom-bom bom-be-bom-bee" bringing in the other vocals. That's probably what he was talking about. I also suspect there were harmony vocals in the verses too that might've followed this patter. Another thing I think he might be mentioning, on the reference to changing rhythm, is the the false start with the chorus vocals we hear on some bootlegs. It's funny and it helps us transition to the different tempo in the chorus better.

How do we know Brian sang a lead vocal on the chorus?  Carl sang the verses.  No chorus lead vocal is on the tapes and session documentation isn't specific on who sang what.  And what were the lyrics on the chorus?  If there were lyrics, wouldn't those have ended up on the Smiley Wind Chimes?

[Bicyclerider]

Vocals were recorded Oct 10 with 6 Beach Boys for Wind Chimes, which is the only vocal session documented.  No mention of Brian singing a lead on the chorus, unless you are saying he is singing on the "bom bom bom" parts which he probably is.  It would be great to find the vocal session for Oct 10th, it seems we only have the finished multi-track - that would give us an idea of how finished the song was and if Brian was planning anything else for the song.  Vosse seems to think the acetate he heard was essentially finished.

[leetwall97]

Vocals were recorded Oct 10 with 6 Beach Boys for Wind Chimes, which is the only vocal session documented.  No mention of Brian singing a lead on the chorus, unless you are saying he is singing on the "bom bom bom" parts which he probably is.  It would be great to find the vocal session for Oct 10th, it seems we only have the finished multi-track - that would give us an idea of how finished the song was and if Brian was planning anything else for the song.  Vosse seems to think the acetate he heard was essentially finished.

Yes the Beach Boys did overdub further on Wind Chimes on October 10th. But the vocals we've heard were recorded on October 5th. The assembly was made. Carl's verse vocals, the backing vocals for the chorus, and then Brian overdubs his lead vocal over the group's harmonies on the chorus. Then on October 10th they come in again for more vocals. The October 10th vocals are the ones on the acetate.

[leetwall97]

I don't mean all of Wind Chimes, just the tag.   The tag to Wind Chimes fits this description of Air.  It's a piano piece that was never finished (because Wind Chimes was remade from scratch for Smiley Smile), and obviously the connection between air and wind. 

The only problem is, were there vocals recorded over the piano track? And the answer doesn't really matter since Wind Chimes seems to have been finished either way. So yes, the piano tag fits the bill in every category, except the unfinished mark.

[soniclovenoize]

The only problem is, were there vocals recorded over the piano track? And the answer doesn't really matter since Wind Chimes seems to have been finished either way. So yes, the piano tag fits the bill in every category, except the unfinished mark.

Yes that is one way to look at it.  But another way to look at it is that it wasn't finished.  The finished recording was what we hear on Smiley Smile, which the Wind Chimes tag was not a part of. 

[leetwall97]

Yes that is one way to look at it.  But another way to look at it is that it wasn't finished.  The finished recording was what we hear on Smiley Smile, which the Wind Chimes tag was not a part of.  

If you see it that way then you're looking at it through a kaleidoscope. The evidence is that Wind Chimes was finished mixed and mastered (the smile version that is), we just haven't heard it. It's unfinished to us. The smiley smile version is just a mashup of Holidays and Wind Chimes. It is not what Michael is describing because the vocals aren't used as percussive devises or to help change the tempo of the song. I believe the unfinished piano air section is Love to Say Dada Part 3. To hear the recording, listen to Cool, Cool Water Version 2 on the Smile Sessions box set. After Brian plays the verse on the piano, he plays LSD Part 3 and you can sing "get a breath of that country air" briefly over it. It makes perfect sense too because they only recorded and finished the first part of cool, cool water. They never even made an instrumental version of that piano section.

[soniclovenoize]

If you see it that way then you're looking at it through a kaleidoscope.

You mean like this? 

It depends on your definition of "finished".  Were there many different finished versions of things throughout the year?  Or when you step back and look at the bigger picture, was nothing truly finished until the album--Smiley Smile--was completed?   Judging by the nature of this album, how pieces seemed to shift from song to song, I'd have to say that nothing was really finished until Smiley Smile.  Actually, some believe it wasn't even truly finished until 2004!

Take your Vosse quote for example:  "At that time it was considered a tentatively finished product..."  The words "At that time" denotes that it was in a finished state, but then ceased to be.  How can that be?  Something is either finished... or it isn't.  Right? 

Wrong.  It was in a constant state of flux.  It was perhaps in a finished state when Brian compiled a master on 10/5/66 (which we have heard btw, and Linett emulated for the Good Vibrations boxset) of Wind Chimes.  But then the tag  could have been pulled from Wind Chimes to become the Air piece for The Elements, thus making it unfinished.  Similar to how The Old Master Painter was finished, but the fade was pulled to Heroes and Villains, leaving Old Master Painter in an unfinished state.  Similar to how Do You like Worms was finished (minus vocals), but the chorus was pulled to Heroes and Villains, leaving Do You Like Worms in an unfinished state. 

And it did not become finished (in Vosse's mind) until the Smiley Smile version, which is the version of Wind Chimes for nearly everyone else in the world for over 25 years. 

[Nile]

If you see it that way then you're looking at it through a kaleidoscope.

You mean like this?  

It depends on your definition of "finished".  Were there many different finished versions of things throughout the year?  Or when you step back and look at the bigger picture, was nothing truly finished until the album--Smiley Smile--was completed?   Judging by the nature of this album, how pieces seemed to shift from song to song, I'd have to say that nothing was really finished until Smiley Smile.  Actually, some believe it wasn't even truly finished until 2004!

Take your Vosse quote for example:  "At that time it was considered a tentatively finished product..."  The words "At that time" denotes that it was in a finished state, but then ceased to be.  How can that be?  Something is either finished... or it isn't.  Right?  

Wrong.  It was in a constant state of flux.  It was perhaps in a finished state when Brian compiled a master on 10/5/66 (which we have heard btw, and Linett emulated for the Good Vibrations boxset) of Wind Chimes.  But then the tag  could have been pulled from Wind Chimes to become the Air piece for The Elements, thus making it unfinished.  Similar to how The Old Master Painter was finished, but the fade was pulled to Heroes and Villains, leaving Old Master Painter in an unfinished state.  Similar to how Do You like Worms was finished (minus vocals), but the chorus was pulled to Heroes and Villains, leaving Do You Like Worms in an unfinished state.  

And it did not become finished (in Vosse's mind) until the Smiley Smile version, which is the version of Wind Chimes for nearly everyone else in the world for over 25 years.  

I agree with this.
I can't see any evidence that WC had more vocals on them, other than ones we have today on Smile sessions.
I think the version that Vosse heard was the one that we heard on bootlegs (SOT vol 17, disc 3, track 8 ), and with "aid" from other stuff he heard it "somewhat" different!

[leetwall97]

You mean like this? 

Similar to how Do You like Worms was finished (minus vocals), but the chorus was pulled to Heroes and Villains, leaving Do You Like Worms in an unfinished state. 

It is unknown if Do You Like Worms was finished (vocals or not). Multiple sessions were held. I said this on another thread: "just because we haven't heard it, doesn't mean it never existed".
And the Chorus was not pulled from the song. Brian just did an instrumental and vocal overdub for it at a Heroes and Villains Session. Why it was titled Part 2 is quite simple I believe. The 1st Bicycle Rider chorus is underneath the overdub (the 1st chorus is the one with the kick drum). Brian was just overdubbing his vocals for the 2nd chorus. And he decided to add a fuzz bass. 2nd chorus vocals; Part 2. That's a way to look at it. Plus it's difficult to label things based on Tape Box identification. Holidays was found in a box labeled Tune X. Tune X was found in a box labeled Wonderful. I Ran was found in a box labeled Holidays.
Also, Do You Like Worms is a part of Heroes and Villains thanks to the Bridge to Indians. Not just Bicycle Rider. Most people misunderstand this. Heroes and Villains was to form some sort of overarching suite that would tie in multiple songs together. H&V would bring in DYLW and DYLW would bring in Cabin Essence, etc. So Bicycle Rider labeled as H&V does not mean that just Bike Rider was absorbed into H&V.

[leetwall97]

I can't see any evidence that WC had more vocals on them, other than ones we have today on Smile sessions.

October 10th vocal session with all 6 Beach Boys. Micheal Vosse's testimony. Documentation indicating Brian overdubbed a lead vocal over the group's chorus harmonies after the boys left on October 5th. I said this on another thread. Every surviving piece of Smile is incomplete. It is missing something. There's a pattern here. None of the masters were retained. Wonderful is missing it's insert (the insert survived, but Brian's mix didn't). Same goes for the vocals. The smile tapes that remain are drafts. Fire is missing it's vocals. Do You Like Worms is missing vocals. Instrumental tracks and their vocals are "lost". There is not one Smile song that survived in it's complete form. That's why it's fun to read testimony like Vosse's and envy the opportunities he had.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

There is not one Smile song that survived in it's complete form.

How about "Our Prayer"?

[leetwall97]

How about "Our Prayer"?

True. True. It's an intro. An intro to what though? It's more of a section than a song. And we have lots of those.

[leetwall97]

.

[jiggy22]

There is not one Smile song that survived in it's complete form.

How about "Our Prayer"?

And "You're Welcome"!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

How about "Our Prayer"?

True. True. It's an intro. An intro to what though?

The album...?

[rab2591]

How about "Our Prayer"?

True. True. It's an intro. An intro to what though?

The album...?

You feeling that acid yet?

[SMiLE Brian]

Billy needs to post the space goat meme!

[soniclovenoize]

An intro to what though?

Brian is clearly heard stating it's an intro to the album during the tracking sessions. 

[leetwall97]

And "You're Welcome"!

It's amazing that you'd mention that because I was casually listening to the session for You're Welcome today on the Smile Sessions Box Set (and I highly recommend you do because they start goofing off and it contains some of the most hilarious gags on all the smile footage). But Brian mentions the order and says that the first section will be normal (vocal wise), then they start imitating ghosts and old men. The first section with the "orchestra" is the part we've heard. But we're missing the ghost and old men versions.
Funny. This might be the end of the life idea of the Album actually. The sections starts out as a regular marching band, they go to old men, then they're ghosts. WOW! This must've been the amen thing. Born in music. Die in music.

If you have no idea what I'm talkin' about, listen to the session here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8zfmLIAi90&list=PLApyhECLlb9-LAxB50ur_2CqhER-8jJBY&index=107