Ian Lee interviews Mike Love

[CenturyDeprived]

The thing is, at this point, after all this time has passed, Mike can just own up to having perhaps helped contribute to a negative mindset in his cousin's head. This is obvious to anyone, regardless if we were there or not.

That's how I feel. Just own up to it and admit you could've been nicer, Michael

In a weird way, when he admitted to the anger management problem (which I give him much credit for), he almost indirectly did just that.

But somehow he cannot connect the two issues together. That's what baffles me. Somebody who has emotionally gotten to the point where they know - AND ADMIT - they have anger issues - enough to try to tackle them, and to cop to them in a major magazine article - must know they are doing damage to those around them. Because otherwise, there'd be no reason to try to "fix" themselves.

I honestly think he won't bring himself to do it because the potential weight of feeling in any way responsible (even a little) for what eventually spiraled into something much, much larger and awful, may be too much for him to bear. It's so sad because I truly Brian would forgive him (and publicly, too) for it.

[Debbie KL]

Was Carl a bully for not recording the stuff with Brian and Don Was?  

Actually, there's an interview online from 1995 where Brian completely tears into the whole thing. I do know there was a lot of bitterness from Brian towards Carl, but I personally do not know if they had patched things up before Carl passed, and to what extent. At some point Carl was vetoing much of what Brian wanted to do, and it is also mentioned in Peter Carlin's book.

I have been assured that when Carl passed, he and Brian were in a very good, loving place with each other, and this was by more than one person who was "there" (I wasn't, just to be clear).  I did see Brian within the year (I think) and he absolutely glowed at the mention of Carl.  That doesn't strike me as losing a brother with any bad feelings between them.  I hope that makes some people feel better.

[mikeddonn]

The thing is, at this point, after all this time has passed, Mike can just own up to having perhaps helped contribute to a negative mindset in his cousin's head. This is obvious to anyone, regardless if we were there or not.

That's how I feel. Just own up to it and admit you could've been nicer, Michael

In a weird way, when he admitted to the anger management problem (which I give him much credit for), he almost indirectly did just that.

But somehow he cannot connect the two issues together. That's what baffles me. Somebody who has emotionally gotten to the point where they know - AND ADMIT - they have anger issues - enough to try to tackle them, and to cop to them in a major magazine article - must know they are doing damage to those around them. Because otherwise, there'd be no reason to try to "fix" themselves.

I honestly think he won't bring himself to do it because the potential weight of feeling in any way responsible (even a little) for what eventually spiraled into something much, much larger and awful, may be too much for him to bear. It's so sad because I truly Brian would forgive him (and publicly, too) for it.

Maybe Brian should apologise to Mike for knowingly 'screwing' him out of songwriting credits.  Maybe that's a reason why Mike has his own possible mental health issues and can't let it go.  How do you know Mike and Brian haven't privately apologised to each other?  I think people here hate Mike more than Brian does.  Why is that?  Maybe Mike and Brian got over 'it' a long time ago.

You keep saying Mike needs to do this and that.  Does he really, maybe he has.  Does it need to be public.  Do the majority of the public care?  Look at Mike's Facebook page and all those who gush over him.  Do they want a public apology over the way Mike treated Brian?  Again, you don't know these people personally so you can't know what has gone down.  Mike has faults like everyone else but maybe everyone should move on.  I'll bet Brian doesn't spend as much time agonising over it.  That's to his credit and a big reason why I love him!  With that, I'll move on from this thread.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Was Carl a bully for not recording the stuff with Brian and Don Was? 

Actually, there's an interview online from 1995 where Brian completely tears into the whole thing. I do know there was a lot of bitterness from Brian towards Carl, but I personally do not know if they had patched things up before Carl passed, and to what extent. At some point Carl was vetoing much of what Brian wanted to do, and it is also mentioned in Peter Carlin's book.

I have been assured that when Carl passed, he and Brian were in a very good, loving place with each other, and this was by more than one person who was "there" (I wasn't, just to be clear).  I did see Brian within the year (I think) and he absolutely glowed at the mention of Carl.  That doesn't strike me as losing a brother with any bad feelings between them.  I hope that makes some people feel better.

Good..I wasn't sure as that period isn't discussed much.

[CenturyDeprived]

Maybe Brian should apologise to Mike for knowingly 'screwing' him out of songwriting credits.  Maybe that's a reason why Mike has his own possible mental health issues and can't let it go.  

The difference is that Brian isn't publicly vilified for this action (due in large part to people feeling more sympathy for him having struggled with emotional issues so much, and being bullied by the mastermind of the crediting screwjob, Murry), not to mention Brian may possibly have been advised by lawyers to not say something in public admitting further guilt to an issue that had/has monetary lawsuit ramifications, even after the initial suit was done.

However, if many interviewers were to continually ask Brian about the suit, and if there were no potential legal ramifications at play (not saying there even are, it's just a remote possibility in my mind), I imagine at some point Brian would have publicly said that he was sorry that Mike was hurt, especially if prodded about that specific subject.

Mike's actions are tantamount to Brian being asked about if the crediting issue may have hurt Mike and messed him up for years, and Brian REPEATEDLY saying in interview after interview, "that's 110% Murry's fault, I had ZERO to do with any of that".  And then adding "and by the way, I wrote the choruses to California Girls, contrary to Mike stating that he wrote all the lyrics to it".  

Mike, on the other hand, KNOWS FOR DECADES that many, many people, both fans and interviewers, want him to publicly take *some* responsibility for this one thing, but stubbornly won't budge AN INCH. Even after Brian said on camera that Mike was part of the problem in the Beautiful Dreamer doc. Mike pretends that never happened! That's absurd. Mike has no remote potential for legal problems by admitting to having been a factor in a project's demise. Nothing bad will happen to him (quite the opposite); it's all about stupid pride. You must know this is true.

How do you know Mike and Brian haven't privately apologised to each other?  I think people here hate Mike more than Brian does.  Why is that?  Maybe Mike and Brian got over 'it' a long time ago.

You keep saying Mike needs to do this and that.  Does he really, maybe he has.  Does it need to be public.  Do the majority of the public care?  Look at Mike's Facebook page and all those who gush over him.  Do they want a public apology over the way Mike treated Brian?  Again, you don't know these people personally so you can't know what has gone down.  Mike has faults like everyone else but maybe everyone should move on.  I'll bet Brian doesn't spend as much time agonising over it.  That's to his credit and a big reason why I love him!  With that, I'll move on from this thread.

The only real reason this subject is being discussed at this point is because Mike does two things: continually deny he had anything whatsoever to do with Smile's demise, and publicly ask why he's being vilified. So OF COURSE any accepting of responsibility by definition specifically HAS to be a public thing that is done transparently, because he is obviously preoccupied with why the public vilification is happening. If the public thinks you are a jerk for not accepting responsibility for something, you have to do something that publicly proves to them you aren't... either that or stop whining.

Do you really think Mike would have a privately pologized to Brian, and then kept that apology a big secret, when it's the key to at least helping make him look better to many people? That makes no sense.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

The thing is, at this point, after all this time has passed, Mike can just own up to having perhaps helped contribute to a negative mindset in his cousin's head. This is obvious to anyone, regardless if we were there or not.

That's how I feel. Just own up to it and admit you could've been nicer, Michael

In a weird way, when he admitted to the anger management problem (which I give him much credit for), he almost indirectly did just that.

But somehow he cannot connect the two issues together. That's what baffles me. Somebody who has emotionally gotten to the point where they know - AND ADMIT - they have anger issues - enough to try to tackle them, and to cop to them in a major magazine article - must know they are doing damage to those around them. Because otherwise, there'd be no reason to try to "fix" themselves.

I honestly think he won't bring himself to do it because the potential weight of feeling in any way responsible (even a little) for what eventually spiraled into something much, much larger and awful, may be too much for him to bear. It's so sad because I truly Brian would forgive him (and publicly, too) for it.

Maybe Brian should apologise to Mike for knowingly 'screwing' him out of songwriting credits.  Maybe that's a reason why Mike has his own possible mental health issues and can't let it go.  How do you know Mike and Brian haven't privately apologised to each other?  I think people here hate Mike more than Brian does.  Why is that?  Maybe Mike and Brian got over 'it' a long time ago.

You keep saying Mike needs to do this and that.  Does he really, maybe he has.  Does it need to be public.  Do the majority of the public care?  Look at Mike's Facebook page and all those who gush over him.  Do they want a public apology over the way Mike treated Brian?  Again, you don't know these people personally so you can't know what has gone down.  Mike has faults like everyone else but maybe everyone should move on.  I'll bet Brian doesn't spend as much time agonising over it.  That's to his credit and a big reason why I love him!  With that, I'll move on from this thread.

Mike is still taking swipes at Brian publicly though. ..Brian rarely if ever takes swipes at anyone

[Emily]

I've never understood the notion that Brian "screwed" Mike with regard to Sea of Tunes. It seems that Brian and Mike had equal standing in their relationship to Sea of Tunes and were both screwed over by Murry. What did Brian do to Mike?

[Debbie KL]

The thing is, at this point, after all this time has passed, Mike can just own up to having perhaps helped contribute to a negative mindset in his cousin's head. This is obvious to anyone, regardless if we were there or not.

That's how I feel. Just own up to it and admit you could've been nicer, Michael

In a weird way, when he admitted to the anger management problem (which I give him much credit for), he almost indirectly did just that.

But somehow he cannot connect the two issues together. That's what baffles me. Somebody who has emotionally gotten to the point where they know - AND ADMIT - they have anger issues - enough to try to tackle them, and to cop to them in a major magazine article - must know they are doing damage to those around them. Because otherwise, there'd be no reason to try to "fix" themselves.

I honestly think he won't bring himself to do it because the potential weight of feeling in any way responsible (even a little) for what eventually spiraled into something much, much larger and awful, may be too much for him to bear. It's so sad because I truly Brian would forgive him (and publicly, too) for it.

Wow, lots of food for thought there.  I really appreciate it.

I don't know anything about the man's deepest psychology obviously, but in an empathetic way, I've seen that my stupidest mistakes have given me real nightmares until I finally accepted what I'd done and found some way to address it/them.  We do terrible, stupid things as humans in the heat of the moment.  

I'm trying to even imagine what it must have been like to have been at a very pivotal point in a deeply sensitive Brian's "creative curve" (my best stab at describing the situation succinctly), and to not have the slightest clue what he was trying to accomplish.  Beyond that, it's pretty obvious that he (and at least some other band members) felt personally threatened.  The curse of human ego - for all of us.  As depressed as this makes me, I can empathize.

But now, Mike appears to want credit for the work that so terrified him, since it's stamped (to some degree at least legally) with the BBs name and has received massive kudos. I guess, because of this (and maybe a little greed?) he just can't help himself and feels the need to re-write the history to not look so bad.  If so, that has to be an awful way to live, even with two elevators in the house overlooking Lake Tahoe.  I don't think there's enough "stuff" to bring joy, in the end if that's the reality of your life.  

Just speculating here obviously.  Even if the man sells more books since he seems to have focused more on the tabloid/click-bait stuff, can it bring any satisfaction in reality?

I haven't a clue, but it's an interesting philosophical question.

[CenturyDeprived]

The thing is, at this point, after all this time has passed, Mike can just own up to having perhaps helped contribute to a negative mindset in his cousin's head. This is obvious to anyone, regardless if we were there or not.

That's how I feel. Just own up to it and admit you could've been nicer, Michael

In a weird way, when he admitted to the anger management problem (which I give him much credit for), he almost indirectly did just that.

But somehow he cannot connect the two issues together. That's what baffles me. Somebody who has emotionally gotten to the point where they know - AND ADMIT - they have anger issues - enough to try to tackle them, and to cop to them in a major magazine article - must know they are doing damage to those around them. Because otherwise, there'd be no reason to try to "fix" themselves.

I honestly think he won't bring himself to do it because the potential weight of feeling in any way responsible (even a little) for what eventually spiraled into something much, much larger and awful, may be too much for him to bear. It's so sad because I truly Brian would forgive him (and publicly, too) for it.

Wow, lots of food for thought there.  I really appreciate it.

I don't know anything about the man's deepest psychology obviously, but in an empathetic way, I've seen that my stupidest mistakes have given me real nightmares until I finally accepted what I'd done and found some way to address it/them.  We do terrible, stupid things as humans in the heat of the moment.  

I'm trying to even imagine what it must have been like to have been at a very pivotal point in a deeply sensitive Brian's "creative curve" (my best stab at describing the situation succinctly), and to not have the slightest clue what he was trying to accomplish.  Beyond that, it's pretty obvious that he (and at least some other band members) felt personally threatened.  The curse of human ego - for all of us.  As depressed as this makes me, I can empathize.

But now, Mike appears to want credit for the work that so terrified him, since it's stamped (to some degree at least legally) with the BBs name and has received massive kudos. I guess, because of this (and maybe a little greed?) he just can't help himself and feels the need to re-write the history to not look so bad.  If so, that has to be an awful way to live, even with two elevators in the house overlooking Lake Tahoe.  I don't think there's enough "stuff" to bring joy, in the end if that's the reality of your life.  

Just speculating here obviously.  Even if the man sells more books since he seems to have focused more on the tabloid/click-bait stuff, can it bring any satisfaction in reality?

I haven't a clue, but it's an interesting philosophical question.

Debbie, I truly believe that Mike is unfortunately and tragically so bitter and cannot find happiness, even with all the TM (as the very empathetic Rolling Stone interviewer pointed out), and even with loving immediate family members (excepting Steve) + all the material possessions, because this stuff is eating at him inside, perhaps completely subconsciously, and he hasn't dealt with these issues. At least if he's dealing with his anger management issues, that's a good start, and I commend him for doing it AND for talking about it publicly.  

But... deflecting blame forever and ever has to take its toll. So easy to just "blame the internet" and say crap like people think Brian walks on water, etc. What a giant load of BS.

Yes, there ARE people who are ridiculous and hate Mike in a way that is completely unwarranted.  Doesn't negate the fact that many other people exist with nuanced opinions, and who are willing to have LOTS of empathy for Mike, and it doesn't mean they are out of line with their thinking that Mike needs to just take responsibility for stuff in order to ever find peace in his life. If Mike ever gets on the right page on this, I'll go out of my way to make sure to tell every Mike "hater" I know that Mike is starting to turn over a new leaf, and that it's time to perhaps give him another chance. Not saying it's in any way likely, but I'm rooting for Mike to change while he's still with us.

[NOLA BB Fan]

Was Carl a bully for not recording the stuff with Brian and Don Was? 

Actually, there's an interview online from 1995 where Brian completely tears into the whole thing. I do know there was a lot of bitterness from Brian towards Carl, but I personally do not know if they had patched things up before Carl passed, and to what extent. At some point Carl was vetoing much of what Brian wanted to do, and it is also mentioned in Peter Carlin's book.

I have been assured that when Carl passed, he and Brian were in a very good, loving place with each other, and this was by more than one person who was "there" (I wasn't, just to be clear).  I did see Brian within the year (I think) and he absolutely glowed at the mention of Carl.  That doesn't strike me as losing a brother with any bad feelings between them.  I hope that makes some people feel better.

Good..I wasn't sure as that period isn't discussed much.

I think the Carlin book states that Brian and Melinda visited Carl and watched the Super Bowl game together on TV in 1998, just a few days before Carl passed away, and patched things up. Brian was very emotional at the funeral.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

The thing is, at this point, after all this time has passed, Mike can just own up to having perhaps helped contribute to a negative mindset in his cousin's head. This is obvious to anyone, regardless if we were there or not.

That's how I feel. Just own up to it and admit you could've been nicer, Michael

In a weird way, when he admitted to the anger management problem (which I give him much credit for), he almost indirectly did just that.

But somehow he cannot connect the two issues together. That's what baffles me. Somebody who has emotionally gotten to the point where they know - AND ADMIT - they have anger issues - enough to try to tackle them, and to cop to them in a major magazine article - must know they are doing damage to those around them. Because otherwise, there'd be no reason to try to "fix" themselves.

I honestly think he won't bring himself to do it because the potential weight of feeling in any way responsible (even a little) for what eventually spiraled into something much, much larger and awful, may be too much for him to bear. It's so sad because I truly Brian would forgive him (and publicly, too) for it.

Maybe Brian should apologise to Mike for knowingly 'screwing' him out of songwriting credits.  Maybe that's a reason why Mike has his own possible mental health issues and can't let it go.  How do you know Mike and Brian haven't privately apologised to each other?  I think people here hate Mike more than Brian does.  Why is that?  Maybe Mike and Brian got over 'it' a long time ago.

This, to me, is an example of what I was saying above, where a desire for objectivity or balance results in us getting further away from the truth and reality of things.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Ian Lee has a little radio show now?  An Internet one? I know the BBC sacked him but my, how the mighty have fallen!

[Debbie KL]

Ian Lee has a little radio show now?  An Internet one? I know the BBC sacked him but my, how the mighty have fallen!

Given a number of the links I go to, it appears I could have an internet radio show, as well, like, in a minute.  I actually know some pretty goofy people with internet shows, along with some great ones.  Ah, the wheat from the chaff. 

[Juice Brohnston]

Plus...Mike drinks! So what's the reason why he would look down on someone smoking marijuana (which had medicinal benefits) but drinking is okay (when beer and such has no medical benefits and is proven to be more harmful)?

And he conveniently leaves out his own period smoking weed, as well. It's always those wascally Wilsons!

Iain also brought up the weed smoking of Mike and the others.  Mike didn't take offence to it.  Brian wasn't self-medicating when he started taking drugs.  He wanted to open his mind, experience new things, be more creative.  A lot of people were doing it.  I think that's why he did it, not because of Mike Love.  History may have turned out the same even if Mike Love had never been anywhere near the group.  A lot of Brian's insecurities came from within.  Drugs created paranoia which never helps someone suffering from mental health issue.  The triggers vary.  As an illness it can happen to anyone at any time.  I've always felt Brian would have thought of Mike as a jerk who he could handle and did over they years and during C50.  But throw in paranoia and triggers and that 'jerk' can become a major downer, as could other people.  As Mike has said, he sang all that stuff and there's not many disagreements on the tapes.  Was Carl a bully for not recording the stuff with Brian and Don Was?  I read David Leaf's book when I was in my teens and blamed Mike for everything but over the years that opinion has softened.

How many people here have met Mike?  How was he? I met him once and he was very nice, as were Brian and Bruce when I met them.  Has anyone here got a negative story about meeting Mike.  There are loads about Bruce, and Al not always being great to meet.  Brian is Brian, Carl was a gentleman as is David.  Dennis by all accounts was usually cool with fans.

I just find it hard to understand people having an opinion, to the point where it's proclaimed as fact, about situations they were never in, conversations they were never part of.  Those who were there are not always the best eyewitnesses.

The handful of times I have met Mike he was always pretty genuine. Friendly, not out of the way friendly like Bruce, but pretty cool.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Ian Lee has a little radio show now?  An Internet one? I know the BBC sacked him but my, how the mighty have fallen!

Given a number of the links I go to, it appears I could have an internet radio show, as well, like, in a minute.  I actually know some pretty goofy people with internet shows, along with some great ones.  Ah, the wheat from the chaff. 

Maybe we should do a Smiley Smile podcast....

[Debbie KL]

The thing is, at this point, after all this time has passed, Mike can just own up to having perhaps helped contribute to a negative mindset in his cousin's head. This is obvious to anyone, regardless if we were there or not.

That's how I feel. Just own up to it and admit you could've been nicer, Michael

In a weird way, when he admitted to the anger management problem (which I give him much credit for), he almost indirectly did just that.

But somehow he cannot connect the two issues together. That's what baffles me. Somebody who has emotionally gotten to the point where they know - AND ADMIT - they have anger issues - enough to try to tackle them, and to cop to them in a major magazine article - must know they are doing damage to those around them. Because otherwise, there'd be no reason to try to "fix" themselves.

I honestly think he won't bring himself to do it because the potential weight of feeling in any way responsible (even a little) for what eventually spiraled into something much, much larger and awful, may be too much for him to bear. It's so sad because I truly Brian would forgive him (and publicly, too) for it.

Wow, lots of food for thought there.  I really appreciate it.

I don't know anything about the man's deepest psychology obviously, but in an empathetic way, I've seen that my stupidest mistakes have given me real nightmares until I finally accepted what I'd done and found some way to address it/them.  We do terrible, stupid things as humans in the heat of the moment.  

I'm trying to even imagine what it must have been like to have been at a very pivotal point in a deeply sensitive Brian's "creative curve" (my best stab at describing the situation succinctly), and to not have the slightest clue what he was trying to accomplish.  Beyond that, it's pretty obvious that he (and at least some other band members) felt personally threatened.  The curse of human ego - for all of us.  As depressed as this makes me, I can empathize.

But now, Mike appears to want credit for the work that so terrified him, since it's stamped (to some degree at least legally) with the BBs name and has received massive kudos. I guess, because of this (and maybe a little greed?) he just can't help himself and feels the need to re-write the history to not look so bad.  If so, that has to be an awful way to live, even with two elevators in the house overlooking Lake Tahoe.  I don't think there's enough "stuff" to bring joy, in the end if that's the reality of your life.  

Just speculating here obviously.  Even if the man sells more books since he seems to have focused more on the tabloid/click-bait stuff, can it bring any satisfaction in reality?

I haven't a clue, but it's an interesting philosophical question.

Debbie, I truly believe that Mike is unfortunately and tragically so bitter and cannot find happiness, even with all the TM (as the very empathetic Rolling Stone interviewer pointed out), and even with loving immediate family members (excepting Steve) + all the material possessions, because this stuff is eating at him inside, perhaps completely subconsciously, and he hasn't dealt with these issues. At least if he's dealing with his anger management issues, that's a good start, and I commend him for doing it AND for talking about it publicly.  

But... deflecting blame forever and ever has to take its toll. So easy to just "blame the internet" and say crap like people think Brian walks on water, etc. What a giant load of BS.

Yes, there ARE people who are ridiculous and hate Mike in a way that is completely unwarranted.  Doesn't negate the fact that many other people exist with nuanced opinions, and who are willing to have LOTS of empathy for Mike, are out of line with their thinking that Mike needs to just take responsibility for stuff in order to ever find peace in his life. If Mike ever gets on the right page on this, I'll go out of my way to make sure to tell every Mike "hater" I know that Mike is starting to turn over a new leaf, and that it's time to perhaps give him another chance. Not saying it's in any way likely, but I'm rooting for Mike to change while he's still with us.

I absolutely agree, particularly with your last sentence.  Why would any of us who actually want a sweet, peaceful life - now, and in the end - spend our time hating Mike Love?  It's just stupid. 

As someone who hates lies - not someone named Mike Love, I have my issues with what goes on about the things discussed here.  And there's the fact that an obviously flawed, tragic human being (essentially like all of us. but wealthier than most) publicly appears to incessantly misrepresent things when convenient - well, I get frustrated.  I don't think that's hatred.  I think it's simply demanding the truth in a world that doesn't seem that interested. I do take pride in the fact that I'm not a liar.  That keeps things simple in my world.  I have a much smaller lake and no elevators, but it works for me.

Please someone.  I would really like to know that there is something in the ML book that offers me any semblance of a positive truth.  Maybe a sentence?  Anything?

[clack]

I've never understood the notion that Brian "screwed" Mike with regard to Sea of Tunes. It seems that Brian and Mike had equal standing in their relationship to Sea of Tunes and were both screwed over by Murry. What did Brian do to Mike?

Brian let record after record be released with (B. Wilson) as the sole writing credit, knowing that he was depriving Mike not only of the royalties, but also of the glory. Yes it was Murry's doing, but Brian at the time was one of the most powerful people in the music industry. Did he fight to give Mike songwriting credit, or did he passively allow for an injustice to continue? This aspect of the group's history is still unclear. I hope Mike's book will tell us.

And yes Mike did get songwriting credit 30 years later. But it was too late. Mike wanted the glory, the respect, the acknowledgment of the public and his peers when, for instance, 'I Get Around' was #1, and not decades after it was on the charts, when no one but a few die hards would care who wrote what.

Mike is bitter. His bitterness does not reflect well on him, or on his decades of meditation. For his sake, I would hope he would find it within himself to move beyond it, to be at peace with the past. But his bitterness is understandable. It is human.

[Lee Marshall]

Hate Mike?  Not a chance.  Why bother.  I don't hate STUPID.  I just don't respect it.  And mean-spirited, low-class stupid?  Well... ... ... 

I expect when Mike-Eddy went to the beach as a skinny little waif...that he used to bury himself in the sand...every time.  [and then tried to blame others for doing it.]

The guy's pretty much just a dink.

[Bicyclerider]

I'd like to know more about the procedure of registering songwriting credits.  Brian writes a song with some lyrics, records a track, Mike hears the track and writes the rest of the lyrics.  They record the vocals finish the track mix it and put it on the record.  When do songwriting credits come up?  I think at the time of recording the track some documentation of the songwriter must happen.  Could it be that the song when the track is recorded was noted as being solely B. WIlson because at that time the lyrics weren't finished, and that credit was carried over when the vocals and lyrics were recorded, and Brian, who really didn't concern himself with such practical matters, just never thought to later correct the credits?

This is not to give Brian a pass, he should have made sure Mike was added to the credits, but I doubt credits were at the top of his priority list during this time.  Now for the songs cowritten with Mike before the track was recorded, there's really no justification.  He certainly seemed to manage proper credits for songs with Asher, Usher and Christian.  With Van Dyke he supposedly stiffed him on the Wind Chimes credits which he corrected at the time of BWPS.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Ian Lee has a little radio show now?  An Internet one? I know the BBC sacked him but my, how the mighty have fallen!

Given a number of the links I go to, it appears I could have an internet radio show, as well, like, in a minute.  I actually know some pretty goofy people with internet shows, along with some great ones.  Ah, the wheat from the chaff. 

Maybe we should do a Smiley Smile podcast....

Billy, your new animated gif profile pic  is doe-pe!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Ian Lee has a little radio show now?  An Internet one? I know the BBC sacked him but my, how the mighty have fallen!

Given a number of the links I go to, it appears I could have an internet radio show, as well, like, in a minute.  I actually know some pretty goofy people with internet shows, along with some great ones.  Ah, the wheat from the chaff. 

Maybe we should do a Smiley Smile podcast....

Billy, your new animated gif profile pic  is doe-pe!

I aim to please!

[tpesky]

Mike does have a right to be bitter. He got screwed. But he did get something back and the guy's had a great career. I wish for him he could let go of stuff that bothers him even at 75 yrs old.  For someone who claims himself to be Mr. Positivity, he has a hard time finding it in his own career.

[Emily]

Yes, bitter. But why at Brian? It was Murry doing the registering. It was Murry's company. Why should it be Brian's responsibility to make sure Murry isn't screwing Mike over? That's the leap I don't understand.
If you are saying that Brian registered the songs without Mike's name, that would make sense. But that's not how I understood it went down. It seems from what I've read that Murry ran the publishing, not Brian.
It would be nice for Brian to look out for Mike's interests but I don't understand why it's his responsibility and why it's reasonable for Mike to be bitter at him for something his father did.

[CenturyDeprived]

Yes, bitter. But why at Brian? It was Murry doing the registering. It was Murry's company. Why should it be Brian's responsibility to make sure Murry isn't screwing Mike over? That's the leap I don't understand.
If you are saying that Brian registered the songs without Mike's name, that would make sense. But that's not how I understood it went down. It seems from what I've read that Murry ran the publishing, not Brian.
It would be nice for Brian to look out for Mike's interests but I don't understand why it's his responsibility and why it's reasonable for Mike to be bitter at him for something his father did.

It really doesn't make sense to blame Brian. It also doesn't make sense or add up, when one considers Brian's track record with being overtly generous with percentages with his OTHER non-Mike collaborators during that era and beyond.  There are many stories of Brian's extremely selfless crediting generosity with others. Rocky himself told such a story on this board, but he's far from the only example.

That contradiction with Mike's unfortunate plight makes me think that either:

- Brian felt really bad about how Mike got screwed, didn't know how to stand up to his dad and get the problem fixed, and wanted to go out of his way to do better for other people perhaps inspired by a guilty conscience about Mike's (believed to be unfixable) plight...

- Or Brian was always going to be generous with all crediting in general due to Brian just simply being that way, and the Mike matter was felt by Brian to be an anomaly that was totally out of Brian's hands.

- Or... the doubtful scenario (yet still perhaps feasible?) that Brian possibly had some reason (resentment over Mike's pushy attitude, or bad blood stuff going back to childhood?) for intentionally treating Mike badly in a crediting aspect, singling Mike out, in complete contrast with Brian's crediting generosity to others. I don't really think this is the case, but not convinced it's impossible either.

Because if Brian wanted to do a passive-aggressive move to perhaps deincentivize Mike from wanting to continue collaborating, repeatedly not crediting a collaborator could conceivably make that collaborator walk. Kinda like Van walking when pushed about lyrical meanings too many times. And at a certain point, I believe Brian wished Mike would have taken a hike and not worm his way into cowriting songs. Unlikely, but who knows.  While I wouldn't say that would have been an appropriate way to have acted (if that is what actually happened), I'd empathetically see it as more of a desperate act to sabotage a souring working relationship by a guy who was unable to stand up and communicate his feelings in a traditional sense.

This is all just speculation on my part, but I'm not sure how there are any other scenarios than the ones I've stated above. I'm not sure I am aware of any other examples of Brian being "greedy" and screwing over other collaborators when left to his own devices. It really doesn't make sense outside of these possibilities, IMO.

Does Mike really think Brian did it out of greed? Why then did Brian act differently with others? And is Mike mad at just the situation (understandable, but unhealthy after all this time), or actually resentful towards Brian? It seems petty and futile to be mad at a man with mental illness/emotional issues who deserves empathy about bad business decisions/inability to stand up to his dad.

Regardless...the situation that Mike faced seems very out of character for Brian, and that's not a negligible thing to consider in my eyes.  That means something.

[Cyncie]

My question with the whole writing credits thing is this: What was keeping MIKE from standing up to Uncle Murry to get the credits he deserved? Why is it Brian's fault that Mike didn't do anything?