Wind Chimes Chorus Lyrics and Prelude Melody (starting on Pg 5 bottom)

[jiggy22]

Given it's more polished form, I'll say the version used in the Smile Sessions mix

The Smile Sessions mix uses the faster one for the first chorus, and the slower one for the second chorus.

[Bicyclerider]

I've wondered about the two Eat a Lot choruses - did Brian want to have the fast/slow as chorus 1 and 2, or was the slow chorus (chorus 2) meant as a remake of the chorus and it was supposed to be the only chorus for the song?

[soniclovenoize]

Realistic?  

I guess the most realistic would be to follow the template of either the April Assembly acetate:
Verse 1
Sleep A Lot (chorus)
Verse 2
Sleep a Lot (chorus)
2nd Chorus

Or it would just literally be the the template of the Smiley Smile version but with April recordings:  
Verse 1
a capella chorus
Part 4 Insert
Ballad Insert
Verse 3

Not too glamorous

[Bicyclerider]

But where does With Me Tonight fit?  As an insert (WMT 3 above), or a fade (2 or 3)?  Assuming WMT was planned as part of the song in the first place - thematically it doesn't make much sense.

[soniclovenoize]

But where does With Me Tonight fit?  As an insert (WMT 3 above), or a fade (2 or 3)?  Assuming WMT was planned as part of the song in the first place - thematically it doesn't make much sense.

In my opinion, it isn't a part of Vege-Tables.  It is just it's own song for Smiley Smile in which Brian recycled unused Smile ideas into, specifically the backing vocals arrangement for the middle eight of Vege-Tables. 

I know it's logged as Vege-Tables, but it was slated as "With Me" and listening to the session tapes and rehearsals, there's nothing that connects it to VT... 

[Bicyclerider]

Just the initial version which is so short (30 seconds or so) that it seems like it was meant to be part of another song.  Maybe that section was meant to be an "intro" to the longer WMT version?

[thorgil]

The "Vege-Tables" Soniclovenoize put together in his "1967 Smile" mix works perfectly for me, and "With Me Tonight" is very much its own song.
But... is Vega-Tables a simple song? To me, with all its alternate versions and sections, it seems almost as mysterious as H & V. Even how it should be really spelled is a mystery!

[Bicyclerider]

There's a version on TSS that's 1 and a half minutes that corresponds to the "fast version" I believe.

[soniclovenoize]

Just the initial version which is so short (30 seconds or so) that it seems like it was meant to be part of another song.  Maybe that section was meant to be an "intro" to the longer WMT version?

Wasn't that initial version tracked in June?  The April VT was pretty much dead by then.  If we want to think WMT is a section of Vege-Tables, we need to look at the Smiley Smile VT, which was tracked around the same time.  So while indeed WMT is in the key of E and follows the change and tempo of the middle eight of the April VT, the June VT was slowed down and dropped to the key of D, which WMT doesn't fit into*.  So as I said, anything is possible, but this fact makes it less probable... 

I guess since the initial WMT was short, and then we have a handful of alternate iterations, my imagination tells me that WMT was always meant to be a simple song made up of different modular variations (just like the H&V's Gee/Part 2/Part 3/ part 4 etc). 

*Although, the Smiley version does regress back to the April VTs in E at the end, so it is possible... 

The "Vege-Tables" Soniclovenoize put together in his "1967 Smile" mix works perfectly for me, and "With Me Tonight" is very much its own song.

Hey thanks! 

[leetwall97]

Let's sort this out: I seem to be a little confused by the 3rd Verse of Vega-Tables. There's 2 versions of it. I'll illustrate this lyrically:

Version 1
[Vocal Break]
I threw away my Candy Bar and I ate the Wrapper
and when they told me what I did I burst into laughter.

Version 2
I know that you'll feel better when
you send us in your letter and
tell us the name of your-
your favorite Vega-Table.

I threw away my Candy Bar and I ate the Wrapper
and when they told me what I'd done I burst into laughter.


Which versions of the 3rd verse were to be used? Brian overdubbed the 2nd version with a synthesizer for Smiley Smile. Was that that the final version of the 3rd Verse, or was he just rehashing that lyric? What we need are dates on those overdubs. It is interesting to note that the original version of Vega-Tables in '66 pursued the vocal break route. So maybe version 2 was the new idea.

[leetwall97]

Assuming WMT was planned as part of the song in the first place - thematically it doesn't make much sense.

It really doesn't! It's a really interesting piece. I don't know how it could tie in with anything. Vega-Tables makes me think of childhood, vegetables, exercise and silliness. Definitely not being close with a loved one after dark.

One thing that's worth looking at though, is the fact that Version 3 of With Me Tonight is recorded with the same bass that's used in Chorus 2. And at the end of the take, you can even hear someone use the same clappers found in Chorus 2. So I propose the theory that they were recorded on the same day.

[soniclovenoize]

Yeah I am counting the wordless scat and "candy bar" lines as Verse 2, and the "Send us your letter" verse as the third verse.  So yes, as you said, the Ballad Insert rehashes the lyrics in Verse 3.  If we are to believe the Smiley Smile template is the template of how the song should go, it's supposed to be rehashed. 

The organ overdub onto Verse 3 was done on June 3rd at Sound Recorders, live as the mono mix was made (as heard on SOT17). 

[leetwall97]

Yeah I am counting the wordless scat and "candy bar" lines as Verse 2, and the "Send us your letter" verse as the third verse.  So yes, as you said, the Ballad Insert rehashes the lyrics in Verse 3.  If we are to believe the Smiley Smile template is the template of how the song should go, it's supposed to be rehashed.  

The organ overdub onto Verse 3 was done on June 3rd at Sound Recorders, live as the mono mix was made (as heard on SOT17).  

Yeah, if it wasn't for the SOT release, we would've never known about the the "candy bar" lyrics after the "letter in" verse.

And it's cool that you called it Verse 2. Technically though, it is the 3rd verse since "I'm gonna keep well" is the 2nd verse, but it really doesn't matter since they're so close to together. One of the few places were there's not editing on our part!  

Btw, listened to your Vega-Tables mix and I love how you take out the "letter in" vocal reprise after the Part 4 Insert. I've never liked that. It just seems TOO silly to repeat that lyric immediately.

And that organ overdub reminds me of a carnival.

[soniclovenoize]

Yeah you are technically right, but I guess I'm looking at it in a modular way, in that it was recorded only to be broken up in pieces and then reassembled again.  Since the first two verses remained together before the chorus (which was going to be replaced with the April 7th First Chorus) I just reduced both to one piece, Verse 1. 

Thanks btw.  I thought it disrupted the flow of the song, that slowly winded down.  But judging from the Smiley Smile version, maybe it was supposed to sound jarring.  idk. 

[Bicyclerider]

I guess since the initial WMT was short, and then we have a handful of alternate iterations, my imagination tells me that WMT was always meant to be a simple song made up of different modular variations (just like the H&V's Gee/Part 2/Part 3/ part 4 etc). 

*Although, the Smiley version does regress back to the April VTs in E at the end, so it is possible... 

KInd of like "Can't Wait Too Long" is a series of variations . . . how to put the WMT's together so they all flow one to the other is problematic though. 

[soniclovenoize]

I guess since the initial WMT was short, and then we have a handful of alternate iterations, my imagination tells me that WMT was always meant to be a simple song made up of different modular variations (just like the H&V's Gee/Part 2/Part 3/ part 4 etc). 

*Although, the Smiley version does regress back to the April VTs in E at the end, so it is possible... 

KInd of like "Can't Wait Too Long" is a series of variations . . . how to put the WMT's together so they all flow one to the other is problematic though. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-INZyQXQwso

[Bicyclerider]

I was referring to the June WMT's - obviously Brian did a remake for Smiley, but the three different variations from June don't fit together if, as someone has suggested, they were meant to be edited into some sequence like the Heroes Part 2 "sections."

[soniclovenoize]

Weren't they all recorded in June? 

[Nile]

I was referring to the June WMT's - obviously Brian did a remake for Smiley, but the three different variations from June don't fit together if, as someone has suggested, they were meant to be edited into some sequence like the Heroes Part 2 "sections."

I found this on my hard disc, not sure who did this mix (no, it's not Brian's   ) but I think that it was from a member of this board. Maybe he'll come forward, it' s very nice mix/mashup of WMT versions! It's not mine, and this is for fun and educational purposes!

http://www.mediafire.com/download/o0q9m1017600c1r/With_Me_Tonight_%28Extended_Mix%29.wav

[Bicyclerider]

That is the kind of thing I was referring to.  Very well done, whoever is responsible!

[Willy Wilson]

God that is awesome!! Thanks to whoever did that.... 

[leetwall97]

Hi guys! I was studying the Heroes and Villains recordings known as Part 3, Bag of Tricks and Intro. I wanted to point out some interesting chord changes in them. Like the 3 versions of Wonderful, each different recording is in a different key. The early version of the Intro (slated as Part 3), is in the key of E. Bag of Tricks, I've had trouble deciphering. Its notes don't go up and down like in the Intros, but I know it starts out on a C. And the recording known as the Intro is in the key of F. It goes: F, Bb, F, Bb... a very common chord sequence on the Smile album (Iron Horse and DYLW verses follow this chord pattern).

I find it very interesting that all of these recordings are in different keys. I'd like to present my theories on these recordings, and I'd also LOVE to hear yours!

Heroes and Villains Part 3
Starts out on E and ends on E, which is odd considering the H&V sections are all sharp/flat chords. The box set says it is unknown when this was recorded. They guess it was late December. So this was around the time period where Brian didn't know what was going on Side B of the H&V single. And interesting thing to consider is Part 3's relation with Do a Lot. Both in the keys of E. I assume this was labeled as Part 3 since Cantina at the time was considered Part 2. And in one of the early drafts of H&V, the train vocals at the end of Cantina were to close Side A. So maybe this piece known as Part 3 was suppose to open Side B, and was to be followed by Do A Lot, which was recorded on the 3rd of January.

Bag of Tricks
An extremely interesting piece. I would love if someone could transcribe the notes on the piano for me! I'm pretty sure it starts out on C though. This was recorded during the January 3rd session. An interesting thing to consider is the other compositions recorded on this date. Mission Pak? Tag to Part 1? These are accommodating pieces. Bridge to Indians and Pickup to 3rd Verse are for other compositions (Do You Like Worms and All Day). I think Bag of Tricks has something to do with Do You Like Worms or/and Cabin Essence. Michael Vosse said Do You Like Worms and Cabin Essence were going to go together. I believe Bag of Tricks is some sort of transition piece. The train whistle is very predominant. Maybe this would've come after the first Iron Horse chorus, since the 2nd Iron Horse is followed by the Grand Coolie (which starts with C). Or perhaps Bag of Tricks was suppose to come after the first Bicycle Rider chorus (the one that rings out on C). Maybe it would've transitioned us over to Cabin Essence. Either way, I wouldn't be surprised if Bag of Tricks wasn't for the H&V single.

Heroes and Villains Intro
I'll come out with my opinion on this piece first; I highly doubt it was meant for Mrs. O'Leary's Cow. Highly doubt that notion. The chords are F and Bb, nowhere near Fire's D#m5 and F5. Fire ends on G# (at least that's the last note played before the fallout), so this couldn't be a piece after it. I have questions about this piece though: Was this specifically labeled as an Intro? And why was it recorded in March? It couldn't've been for the H&V single. By March nothing in the Single could lead to an F or follow a Bb. Plus the single was pretty much finished either way. That's why I believe this might've been for the album as well. As I suggested with Bag of Tricks, this could perhaps be connected to Do You Like Worms or/and Cabin Essence. Perhaps more so than Bag of Tricks since we have a chord progression that matches both songs.

These are my theories on the Bag of Tricks H&V recordings! Love to hear what you guys think and how you interpret the information!

[leetwall97]

Has there ever been any mention as to what was suppose to fill in the lyrical gap after the 1st Columnated Ruins Domino in the 1st verse? Was it for an instrumental insert or were the operatic vocals going to take over?

[Bicyclerider]

From the sessions Brian wanted the verse at the end to break down, not come to a defined end.  Presumably that mirrored the lyrics.  No indication of any insert, the second verse just starts up after the breakdown.

[harrisonjon]

Brian's piano version ends with the 'Child Is Father of the Man' melody beneath his vocal; thus was the song always written to include CIFOTM on the last section into the fade?

His vocal on the verse also seems to leave space for 'Bygone, Bygone'. In other words, the final production familiar from 1971 seems already implied in the demo.