From Brianistas to Lovesters

[Jay]

I made that mistake once when my dad was in the room. What followed was a really weird and awkward conversation.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Ha ha ha ha

[Emily]

So FdP comes in, creates a straw man for HeyJude, then criticizes him for not “sticking to the point” of her straw man. Then, when he responds to her straw man, says his completely relevant point is not what “we’re…talking about” because apparently what “we’re talking about” is a single interview in the early 70’s. Then when Hey Jude says “wtf?” at this bizarrity, she starts accusing him of “stalking” (when the interaction began with HER responding to HIM), and bullying and “you’re not a mod” and that (hilariously after she accused him of side-tracking by not responding directly to her side-tracking with her straw man and favorite interview that is the only evidence of anything anyone is allowed to consider) that it’s not for him to “decide what added info is side-tracking”.  And then, again after insisting that he stay on the topic of her straw man, says “that’s censorship.”

It’s a derailment and I think THIS is a big part of what’s been wrong with this board.

Succinct and to the point as always. I will acknowledge, as I've often pondered both on the board and to myself, perhaps my mistake was engaging the straw man argument to begin with.

But yes, the person most loudly complaining about how this board has gone downhill, etc. is the one who has thrown the thread into disarray.

And I once again maintain that there are parties, whether on this thread or elsewhere, who want threads that take Mike to task to devolve into chaos. That chaos helps fuel the school of thought that leads some people to end up on a stage saying they hate an online community so much that they (jokingly, haha!) want to kill everyone on it.

I think the board has unfortunately been both knowingly and unknowingly "punk'd", and those doing the punk'ing have thankfully almost all moved on either voluntarily or involuntarily. Why someone who does largely nothing but cause threads to erupt and professes to think the board is going downhill would still continue to be here, I do not know.

Yes. And...

And still the topic of THIS thread remains sidetracked by an OBVIOUSLY silly and side-show strewn argument which has a factor of about 999,999 parts per million of bullshit mixed into it as almost all of 'these' attempts to take the conversation away from the podium and instead detour them to some Punch and Judy theatre hidden just over there down Lack of Memory Lane do.

Surely it would save us all time, effort and the certain sense of frustration which accompanies every single one of these stolen threads if we just could agree that fdp disagrees...allow her to cut and paste and then post the same old/same old whine and then carry on with the subject matter at hand.

Perhaps THAT might demonstrate a united front far more sensible and certainly completely more believable than the 'pretend' one she tossed onto this specific pile of fly attractant late this morning.

Yes.

[Debbie KL]

So FdP comes in, creates a straw man for HeyJude, then criticizes him for not “sticking to the point” of her straw man. Then, when he responds to her straw man, says his completely relevant point is not what “we’re…talking about” because apparently what “we’re talking about” is a single interview in the early 70’s. Then when Hey Jude says “wtf?” at this bizarrity, she starts accusing him of “stalking” (when the interaction began with HER responding to HIM), and bullying and “you’re not a mod” and that (hilariously after she accused him of side-tracking by not responding directly to her side-tracking with her straw man and favorite interview that is the only evidence of anything anyone is allowed to consider) that it’s not for him to “decide what added info is side-tracking”.  And then, again after insisting that he stay on the topic of her straw man, says “that’s censorship.”

It’s a derailment and I think THIS is a big part of what’s been wrong with this board.

Succinct and to the point as always. I will acknowledge, as I've often pondered both on the board and to myself, perhaps my mistake was engaging the straw man argument to begin with.

But yes, the person most loudly complaining about how this board has gone downhill, etc. is the one who has thrown the thread into disarray.

And I once again maintain that there are parties, whether on this thread or elsewhere, who want threads that take Mike to task to devolve into chaos. That chaos helps fuel the school of thought that leads some people to end up on a stage saying they hate an online community so much that they (jokingly, haha!) want to kill everyone on it.

I think the board has unfortunately been both knowingly and unknowingly "punk'd", and those doing the punk'ing have thankfully almost all moved on either voluntarily or involuntarily. Why someone who does largely nothing but cause threads to erupt and professes to think the board is going downhill would still continue to be here, I do not know.

Yes. And...

And still the topic of THIS thread remains sidetracked by an OBVIOUSLY silly and side-show strewn argument which has a factor of about 999,999 parts per million of bullshit mixed into it as almost all of 'these' attempts to take the conversation away from the podium and instead detour them to some Punch and Judy theatre hidden just over there down Lack of Memory Lane do.

Surely it would save us all time, effort and the certain sense of frustration which accompanies every single one of these stolen threads if we just could agree that fdp disagrees...allow her to cut and paste and then post the same old/same old whine and then carry on with the subject matter at hand.

Perhaps THAT might demonstrate a united front far more sensible and certainly completely more believable than the 'pretend' one she tossed onto this specific pile of fly attractant late this morning.

Yes.

It's interesting how troll-dom and derailing threads is an art-form. 

I think it's been kindly tolerated here for awhile.  I didn't object.  I took it for what it was.

But we Brianistas tend to have "tolerance" in spite of the characterization on these recent threads.

There are certain things I don't understand.  Why do Lovesters always say, "I love them all equally," "I'm really a Brian fan, but...", etc.  I have no problem saying that I back Brian and his music.  Why is their preference so difficult for Lovesters?  Seriously.  We could then have a conversation.  But instead, I keep seeing all of these invisible "attacks" as excuses.  Just frikkin' be honest for once.

[guitarfool2002]

If claims are going to be made, back them up with facts or evidence. If I'm going to be called out for accusing James Hirsch of plagiarism, back it up. Find me the quotes. If I am going to be accused to saying this person or that person "wrote Mike's book", back it up. Show me the quotes. If I'm going to be accused of anything, back it up. Show me the proof.

This M.O. of making sh*t up as people go along and using it to hammer others they have a grudge against or would like to see gone or silenced is chickenshit. But it does speak to those doing it - It's who they are and what they do. As simple as that.

HeyJude: Nailed it. The part about deliberately disrupting threads. Very perceptive and spot-on.

And yet, who is being blamed for bullying, disrupting, diverting, etc.? Psychological projection, I believe is one of the terms. See, my Psych classes paid off. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Why do Lovesters always say, "I love them all equally," "I'm really a Brian fan, but...", etc.

With some of them (the specific ones I like to refer to as 'Love Stains') it's akin to the 'Not to be racist, but...' where the followup line inevitably ends up being racist.

[CenturyDeprived]

Why do Lovesters always say, "I love them all equally," "I'm really a Brian fan, but...", etc.

With some of them (the specific ones I like to refer to as 'Love Stains') it's akin to the 'Not to be racist, but...' where the followup line inevitably ends up being racist.

Love Stains?! 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Yup

In all honesty, I must point out I'm only referring to a small segment of the 'Love Crew', the ones who could watch him piss and proclaim 'oh boy, lemonade'

[SMiLE Brian]

Its a love stain thang....

[clack]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

[Robbie Mac]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

I don't agree with that at all. Do Yankees HAVE to love Derek Jeter? Do Penguins fans HAVE to love Sidney Crosby?  As a Monkees fan, I'm am a part of that fan world and I can definitely say that when he was alive, many Monkees fans considered Davy Jones an embarrassment for a variety of reasons.

[JK]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

I don't agree with that at all. Do Yankees HAVE to love Derek Jeter? Do Penguins fans HAVE to love Sidney Crosby?  As a Monkees fan, I'm am a part of that fan world and I can definitely say that when he was alive, many Monkees fans considered Davy Jones an embarrassment for a variety of reasons.

I can see what clack's driving at. I'm utterly non-plussed by this crazy Brian--Mike polarity. I love The Beach Boys. Who gives a **** about "interstecine" squabbles and intrigues? All part of it, I'd say. It's a cut-throat business at heart.

I like a lot of what the (early) Stones did, and love some of it, but I can't stand Mick Jagger! Same with Pink Floyd and Roger Waters. I'd say that stops me from being a true fan of either band.

Just my jaded opinion, folks...

[Chocolate Shake Man]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

I don't agree with that at all. Do Yankees HAVE to love Derek Jeter? Do Penguins fans HAVE to love Sidney Crosby?  As a Monkees fan, I'm am a part of that fan world and I can definitely say that when he was alive, many Monkees fans considered Davy Jones an embarrassment for a variety of reasons.

I can see what clack's driving at. I'm utterly non-plussed by this crazy Brian--Mike polarity. I love The Beach Boys. Who gives a **** about "interstecine" squabbles and intrigues? All part of it, I'd say. It's a cut-throat business at heart.

I like a lot of what the (early) Stones did, and love some of it, but I can't stand Mick Jagger! Same with Pink Floyd and Roger Waters. I'd say that stops me from being a true fan of either band.

Just my jaded opinion, folks...

I respect your opinion but I suppose I am more on the Botwin side of things. To me, The Beach Boys are the music and fandom comes down to how much I like the music rather than the personalities involved in making it. I wouldn't stop myself from being a fan of an artistic work on the grounds that I don't like some of the people involved in the making of it. And the sports analogy is perfect - I can be a fan of the Toronto Blue Jays and the Montreal Canadiens without having to always like everybody who plays on the team.

[Ang Jones]

It's stuff like this from the 2005 lawsuit that really annoys me:

"In 2002, Brian began to resurrect his career by touring with his own band. However his “performance” has been, for the most part, limited by his past mental and emotional problems. In order to promote himself, Brian began to misappropriate BRI property. In 2003, he misappropriated “Pet Sounds,” a Beach Boys album, all while serving as a fiduciary to BRI. In September, 2004, Brian Wilson, without permission or a license from BRI, the owner of Smile, orchestrated the scheme to release a Smile CD. Up until then, Smile had been called the most recognized unreleased album in the history of rock ‘n’ roll. Smile has obtained “secondary meaning” as a Beach Boys property, and historically has been identified with The Beach Boys trademark."

There is no real fairness in these comments. Brian's "performance' has been enough to sell out many concerts and get him invited to Party at the Palace. SMiLE may have obtained 'secondary meaning' as a Beach Boys property but it was the brainchild of Brian and Van Dyke Parks and at the time Mike wasn't exactly its best fan.

[clack]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

I don't agree with that at all. Do Yankees HAVE to love Derek Jeter? Do Penguins fans HAVE to love Sidney Crosby?  As a Monkees fan, I'm am a part of that fan world and I can definitely say that when he was alive, many Monkees fans considered Davy Jones an embarrassment for a variety of reasons.

So, are you saying that you can be a Beach Boys fan and still hate Brian? I don't see it. Maybe you might find him annoying sometimes, or disagree with some of his opinions or his actions -- but actual hate?

I love the Monkees but don't follow their fandom -- some Monkees fans hate Davy Jones? That strikes me as such an odd thing.

[Robbie Mac]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

I don't agree with that at all. Do Yankees HAVE to love Derek Jeter? Do Penguins fans HAVE to love Sidney Crosby?  As a Monkees fan, I'm am a part of that fan world and I can definitely say that when he was alive, many Monkees fans considered Davy Jones an embarrassment for a variety of reasons.

I can see what clack's driving at. I'm utterly non-plussed by this crazy Brian--Mike polarity. I love The Beach Boys. Who gives a **** about "interstecine" squabbles and intrigues? All part of it, I'd say. It's a cut-throat business at heart.

I like a lot of what the (early) Stones did, and love some of it, but I can't stand Mick Jagger! Same with Pink Floyd and Roger Waters. I'd say that stops me from being a true fan of either band.

Just my jaded opinion, folks...

I respect your opinion but I suppose I am more on the Botwin side of things. To me, The Beach Boys are the music and fandom comes down to how much I like the music rather than the personalities involved in making it. I wouldn't stop myself from being a fan of an artistic work on the grounds that I don't like some of the people involved in the making of it. And the sports analogy is perfect - I can be a fan of the Toronto Blue Jays and the Montreal Canadiens without having to always like everybody who plays on the team.

But you absolutely cannot be a Toronto Maple Leafs fan AND be a Montreal Canadiens fan.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

I don't agree with that at all. Do Yankees HAVE to love Derek Jeter? Do Penguins fans HAVE to love Sidney Crosby?  As a Monkees fan, I'm am a part of that fan world and I can definitely say that when he was alive, many Monkees fans considered Davy Jones an embarrassment for a variety of reasons.

I can see what clack's driving at. I'm utterly non-plussed by this crazy Brian--Mike polarity. I love The Beach Boys. Who gives a **** about "interstecine" squabbles and intrigues? All part of it, I'd say. It's a cut-throat business at heart.

I like a lot of what the (early) Stones did, and love some of it, but I can't stand Mick Jagger! Same with Pink Floyd and Roger Waters. I'd say that stops me from being a true fan of either band.

Just my jaded opinion, folks...

I respect your opinion but I suppose I am more on the Botwin side of things. To me, The Beach Boys are the music and fandom comes down to how much I like the music rather than the personalities involved in making it. I wouldn't stop myself from being a fan of an artistic work on the grounds that I don't like some of the people involved in the making of it. And the sports analogy is perfect - I can be a fan of the Toronto Blue Jays and the Montreal Canadiens without having to always like everybody who plays on the team.

But you absolutely cannot be a Toronto Maple Leafs fan AND be a Montreal Canadiens fan.

 

Exactly

[Chocolate Shake Man]

So, are you saying that you can be a Beach Boys fan and still hate Brian?

My answer to that would be yes but I can imagine that that would be a rare occurrence. Nevertheless, I would accept it.

[Robbie Mac]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

I don't agree with that at all. Do Yankees HAVE to love Derek Jeter? Do Penguins fans HAVE to love Sidney Crosby?  As a Monkees fan, I'm am a part of that fan world and I can definitely say that when he was alive, many Monkees fans considered Davy Jones an embarrassment for a variety of reasons.

So, are you saying that you can be a Beach Boys fan and still hate Brian? I don't see it. Maybe you might find him annoying sometimes, or disagree with some of his opinions or his actions -- but actual hate?

I love the Monkees but don't follow their fandom -- some Monkees fans hate Davy Jones? That strikes me as such an odd thing.

Theoretically, I suppose. But I was actually referring to disliking Mike.

And yeah, Davy was not that popular among some fans. A lot of the songs he sang are considered the worst of their canon. The fact that he was a shoo-in when the TV show was cast (because Davy was already a Columbia Pictures contract performer) didn't endear him to some. Personally, I was not cool with the fact that he sided with Don Kirschner in the battle between Donnie and Michael Nesmith and Raybert Productions. The cheesy infomercials and TV appearances in the 80's and 90's that make ML's FULL HOUSE appearances look like MAD MEN.  And every reunion ended with Davy being an entitled diva.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

Bullshit. Sorry, but that statement is as wacked as myKe luHv's thinking he's somewhere close to Brian in the talent department. Hating a member of a band has nothing to do with liking the band and it's other members.

[clack]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

I don't agree with that at all. Do Yankees HAVE to love Derek Jeter? Do Penguins fans HAVE to love Sidney Crosby?  As a Monkees fan, I'm am a part of that fan world and I can definitely say that when he was alive, many Monkees fans considered Davy Jones an embarrassment for a variety of reasons.

So, are you saying that you can be a Beach Boys fan and still hate Brian? I don't see it. Maybe you might find him annoying sometimes, or disagree with some of his opinions or his actions -- but actual hate?

I love the Monkees but don't follow their fandom -- some Monkees fans hate Davy Jones? That strikes me as such an odd thing.

Theoretically, I suppose. But I was actually referring to disliking Mike.

And yeah, Davy was not that popular among some fans. A lot of the songs he sang are considered the worst of their canon. The fact that he was a shoo-in when the TV show was cast (because Davy was already a Columbia Pictures contract performer) didn't endear him to some. Personally, I was not cool with the fact that he sided with Don Kirschner in the battle between Donnie and Michael Nesmith and Raybert Productions. The cheesy infomercials and TV appearances in the 80's and 90's that make ML's FULL HOUSE appearances look like MAD MEN.  And every reunion ended with Davy being an entitled diva.

Ok, I guess it comes down to how you define "fan".

I mean, if for some reason a person hates John, Paul, George, and Ringo (anti-British, maybe?), but loves their records, I would not call that person a Beatles fan.

IMO, "fan" and "hate" are opposing terms.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

I disagree with that completely. I may not care for Mike as a person, but I would *never* denigrate his abilities, and I do feel like he was a vital part of the band. I can separate the person from the artist. I'm a fan of him as a musical artist.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

I don't agree with that at all. Do Yankees HAVE to love Derek Jeter? Do Penguins fans HAVE to love Sidney Crosby?  As a Monkees fan, I'm am a part of that fan world and I can definitely say that when he was alive, many Monkees fans considered Davy Jones an embarrassment for a variety of reasons.

I can see what clack's driving at. I'm utterly non-plussed by this crazy Brian--Mike polarity. I love The Beach Boys. Who gives a **** about "interstecine" squabbles and intrigues? All part of it, I'd say. It's a cut-throat business at heart.

I like a lot of what the (early) Stones did, and love some of it, but I can't stand Mick Jagger! Same with Pink Floyd and Roger Waters. I'd say that stops me from being a true fan of either band.

Just my jaded opinion, folks...

I can see where you're coming from, but thankfully for myself that doesn't affect how I view the music. Actually, the only person I can think of where my dislike for them makes me not want to hear their music is Ted Nugent.

[Robbie Mac]

You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Brian. You can't be a Beach Boy fan and hate Mike.

Are there any Beach Boys fans still left on this board?

I don't agree with that at all. Do Yankees HAVE to love Derek Jeter? Do Penguins fans HAVE to love Sidney Crosby?  As a Monkees fan, I'm am a part of that fan world and I can definitely say that when he was alive, many Monkees fans considered Davy Jones an embarrassment for a variety of reasons.

So, are you saying that you can be a Beach Boys fan and still hate Brian? I don't see it. Maybe you might find him annoying sometimes, or disagree with some of his opinions or his actions -- but actual hate?

I love the Monkees but don't follow their fandom -- some Monkees fans hate Davy Jones? That strikes me as such an odd thing.

Theoretically, I suppose. But I was actually referring to disliking Mike.

And yeah, Davy was not that popular among some fans. A lot of the songs he sang are considered the worst of their canon. The fact that he was a shoo-in when the TV show was cast (because Davy was already a Columbia Pictures contract performer) didn't endear him to some. Personally, I was not cool with the fact that he sided with Don Kirschner in the battle between Donnie and Michael Nesmith and Raybert Productions. The cheesy infomercials and TV appearances in the 80's and 90's that make ML's FULL HOUSE appearances look like MAD MEN.  And every reunion ended with Davy being an entitled diva.

Ok, I guess it comes down to how you define "fan".

I mean, if for some reason a person hates John, Paul, George, and Ringo (anti-British, maybe?), but loves their records, I would not call that person a Beatles fan.

IMO, "fan" and "hate" are opposing terms.

I have come across Beatles fans who are John partisans who hate McCartney.

[JK]

I have come across Beatles fans who are John partisans who hate McCartney.

Indeed? I find that rather sad. But that's why I'm not a major Beatles fan.