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Charles LePage @ ComicList
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« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2006, 07:03:09 PM »

Cult:

1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

Certainly #1, 2 and 5 are open ended enough to allow any faith or religion to be labelled a "cult."  3 and 4, of course, are the less positive meanings.

Thus, you could label Christianity a "cult" if you wanted to.  But, that doesn't make Jesus any less God or Savior. 
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« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2006, 07:52:13 PM »

There's something weird going on within this website. Looking through the forums it's almost like looking at a ghost town. It's not that there's a lack of people, but rather a lack of feeling and connection between everyone.
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« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2006, 08:08:20 PM »

Ain't that the truth.
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« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2006, 10:22:49 PM »

There's something weird going on within this website. Looking through the forums it's almost like looking at a ghost town. It's not that there's a lack of people, but rather a lack of feeling and connection between everyone.

No comment. Smiley
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 10:57:48 PM by Jason » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2006, 02:43:35 AM »

There's something weird going on within this website. Looking through the forums it's almost like looking at a ghost town. It's not that there's a lack of people, but rather a lack of feeling and connection between everyone.

1) There's an ebb and flow to everything. 

2) Best thing to do if this situation seems wrong is to find a way to make it better.   I know that's what you'd be prone to do anyways.

Jason, tell us what you think.  You too, Billy.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 03:11:42 AM by Charles LePage » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2006, 02:57:49 AM »

Cult:

1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

Certainly #1, 2 and 5 are open ended enough to allow any faith or religion to be labelled a "cult."  3 and 4, of course, are the less positive meanings.

Thus, you could label Christianity a "cult" if you wanted to.  But, that doesn't make Jesus any less God or Savior. 

OK, back in the day, in 1st century Jerusalem and its environs - as I said in my deleted post - Christianity was certainly "a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious" and remained so for some 400-odd years until Constantine (btw, the so-called 'Donation of Constantine' giving the spirituasl descendants of St. Peter dominion over western Europe is a complete fake concocted by the church circa 800AD. Just a little food for thought). In some parts of the world, it's still regarded as spurious.

And Charles, I'm gonna call you on "that doesn't make Jesus any less God or Savior". Unless you can prove that to me, it's just your belief, not a fact, and should be presented as such. I find this bludgeoning highly offensive. The Islamic faith, for one, regards Jesus as a prophet, nothing more. You have your beliefs, I have mine. I want to know about yours, I'll ask - until I do, please don't lecture me about them. It's patronising, and demeans the board.
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« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2006, 03:18:10 AM »

I want to know about yours, I'll ask - until I do, please don't lecture me about them. It's patronising, and demeans the board.

I've never lectured you on the Christian faith, and even though you just lectured me about my faith, I don't mind.  We don't have to discuss it here-- that's entirely up to you, as we've already discussed the easy means people have on Internet message boards to avoid discussions they don't want to participate in.  I've never, NEVER, initiated any discussions with you about Christianity, on or off this board. 

I thank you for your concern about this board. 
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« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2006, 03:34:25 AM »

Thus, you could label Christianity a "cult" if you wanted to.  But, that doesn't make Jesus any less God or Savior. 

So this isn't lecturing ?  You're stating "Jesus is Saviour and God, period". Think you'll find the vast majority of the world's population (roughly 66%) will disagree with you on that. Their beliefs are just as valid as yours.

Later: just noticed this, from the rules for posting on the Smiley Smile MB (not The Sandbox):

Quote
Thanks for visiting the Smiley Smile message board. Here are a few guidelines to help everything run smoothly:

1) Treat others as you want to be treated. Think about what you are saying before you post a message. Lift each other up, don't tear each other down. Harassment of members is not tolerated. Please behave and not be an embarrassment to the good name of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys.  But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.  1Peter 1:15-16

So the inference is that this whole MB is being administered and moderated in accordance with scripture, then ? I call that harrassment.

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« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2006, 04:06:58 AM »

Andrew, I'm going to do my best to make this my last comment on this topic to you, because I understand why this is a sensitive subject for you.

It's no more lecturing than saying "MIU sucks."  I can agree or disagree.  My belief in something is not validated or invalidated by your belief or lack of belief in something. 

The part of the "rules of the board" you find to be harassment has been part of the rules since the board started over a year ago.  If this or any other part of the board is intolerable, speak to Joe and Billy directly.

I apologise for any offense this or any other part of my life has caused you.
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« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2006, 04:12:24 AM »

I wouldn't call it harassment, but maybe, I dunno, inappropriate? One thing about this world is that there are different beliefs and ideas; everyone feels in their heart that they are the ones who are right and everyone else is wrong. I'm going to be honest...I personally do not feel religion is an appropriate topic for the board. Why? It's too touchy of a subject, and no matter what, someone WILL be offended. I mean, what if I decided to be a prick and edited the board rules and started quoting from the Koran? Or, heck, change my username to "All Hail King Satan" and put a picture of Bill O'Reilly as my avatar? Not cool, right? Well, I have a feeling this is what Andrew is feeling.

Just something to think about.
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« Reply #60 on: July 28, 2006, 04:12:34 AM »

Andrew, we get it. You don't like scripture and you don't want to be lectured about christianity. If thats the case, why dont you just ignore this section of the board? The Sandbox isn't anything Beach Boys related, its just where we shoot the sh*t and do whatever. If chuck wants to sit on his soapbox and preach to people, let him, if anyone cares to read it then so be it. I dont bother reading Chuck's posts, however I do read Donald's TGIF posts...but Im sure some people will do the opposite.

My point is, if you dont like something here, ignore it...and just stick to the general discussion forums for music. I can assure you there wont be any holy babble there.
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« Reply #61 on: July 28, 2006, 04:28:16 AM »

Quote
Thanks for visiting the Smiley Smile message board. Here are a few guidelines to help everything run smoothly:

1) Treat others as you want to be treated. Think about what you are saying before you post a message. Lift each other up, don't tear each other down. Harassment of members is not tolerated. Please behave and not be an embarrassment to the good name of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys.  But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.  1Peter 1:15-16

So the inference is that this whole MB is being administered and moderated in accordance with scripture, then ? I call that harrassment.

Many people run their lives based on scripture. I dont, but many people do. Thats the beauty of this country, you're allowed to express your faith and not have to worry about being persecuted. Which I feel like what is happening to Chuck right now. If he brings up anything that his life revolves around based on his studies or faith then people complain because they feel that theyre been lectured...which IMO I think is not the case.

This board is being run just fine, like I mentioned earlier if Chuck started a thread called 'CHUCKS LECTURING CORNER' he's more than welcome to, this is the part of the board that its allowed to happen. Now if you click on that thread and start complaining that he's lecturing to you, who's fault is it? Chuck for posting it? or YOU for clicking on the link? My point is...all this can be easily ignored but I think some people just have to FIGHT the fight for whatever reason it may be.

Another thing is this, if Chuck's christianity really bothers you...when you walk into a shop Andrew. And the shop keeper has a cross hanging next to the door, one behind the counter, and one above the door leading into the back room. Do you immediately leave the shop because the owners are of Christian faith and remind people that Jesus died on the cross? What about shops where people put a line of scripture on the rim of the door? Do you walk in and complain to the store owner that it offends you?

Just curious.
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« Reply #62 on: July 28, 2006, 04:50:22 AM »

Some people do.


For the record, my view on this matter is to limit ALL religious discussion, because it is too volatile a subject. I know I didn't spell that correctly but I am getting ready for work LOL
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Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
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« Reply #63 on: July 28, 2006, 05:09:25 AM »

why dont you just ignore this section of the board?
My point is, if you dont like something here, ignore it.

Or ignore me.

Quote
..and just stick to the general discussion forums for music. I can assure you there wont be any holy babble there.

And if I do drage any "holy babble" over there, beat me with a stick.
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« Reply #64 on: July 28, 2006, 05:25:27 AM »

Another thing is this, if Chuck's christianity really bothers you...when you walk into a shop Andrew. And the shop keeper has a cross hanging next to the door, one behind the counter, and one above the door leading into the back room. Do you immediately leave the shop because the owners are of Christian faith and remind people that Jesus died on the cross? What about shops where people put a line of scripture on the rim of the door? Do you walk in and complain to the store owner that it offends you?

Just curious.

No, not in the least, any more than I'd punch someone out for wearing a cross (I have one about my neck as it happens, a silver celtic cross - a present from a very dear friend and also a nod to my family history: no religious significance). By this reasoning, I'd not go into town for fear of seeing a church.  Smiley   No problem with people displaying their faith (unless that display runs to the killing of non-believers), but I find the injunction to "be holy" enshrined in the rules of this very board to be, at best, inappropriate. And I'll reiterate, it's all very well saying steer clear of the posts iffn you don't like them... but sometimes they just pop up unexpectedly. How to avoid that ? It's akin to certain posts on the Bloo that feature excruciating word-play: the post headers are usually part of the post, thus unavoidable (and just as irritating). I'm not alone in my dislike of scripture being posted here. It's not the belief that bothers me, more the assumption by others that it is the only truth. I happen to think otherwise, as a consequence of personal experience, that's all.
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« Reply #65 on: July 28, 2006, 05:36:02 AM »

No problem with people displaying their faith (unless that display runs to the killing of non-believers), but I find the injunction to "be holy" enshrined in the rules of this very board to be, at best, inappropriate.

I understand, and I apologize that you find it inappropriate. I did not write that rules thread so I did not put that quote in there. However, since I've first read em, I never really thought twice about it. I get that Chuck's a religious dude but just because its on there doesn't really affect how I'll be interpreting or posting on here. Shrug

Quote
And I'll reiterate, it's all very well saying steer clear of the posts iffn you don't like them... but sometimes they just pop up unexpectedly. How to avoid that ?

It's a possibility that you do want participate in these threads? Razz

Quote
I'm not alone in my dislike of scripture being posted here. It's not the belief that bothers me, more the assumption by others that it is the only truth. I happen to think otherwise, as a consequence of personal experience, that's all.

We can put a disclaimer on top of the sandbox letting the public know they need to interpret Chuck's religious posts as 'his opinion' and not to take it as 'the only truth'. High Five

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« Reply #66 on: July 28, 2006, 05:59:51 AM »

We can put a disclaimer on top of the sandbox letting the public know they need to interpret Chuck's religious posts as 'his opinion' and not to take it as 'the only truth'.  High Five

See, I had no idea I was so powerful that I could force others to change their beliefs based upon mine.  Smiley  Maybe we should put that a similiar header on the whole board, stating anything anyone says is their opinion and possibly not the ony truth, just in case anyone possibly didn't know that already.  Smiley
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« Reply #67 on: July 28, 2006, 02:51:07 PM »

We can put a disclaimer on top of the sandbox letting the public know they need to interpret Chuck's religious posts as 'his opinion' and not to take it as 'the only truth'.  High Five

See, I had no idea I was so powerful that I could force others to change their beliefs based upon mine.  Smiley  Maybe we should put that a similiar header on the whole board, stating anything anyone says is their opinion and possibly not the ony truth, just in case anyone possibly didn't know that already.  Smiley

Think you'll find that, say, "Good Vibrations" being a #1 hit record is indeed the only truth.

And you're not forcing anyone to change their beliefs, Charles - just annoying them. Like I said, I'm not alone in feeling this, as I'm sure you're very well aware.
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« Reply #68 on: July 28, 2006, 03:04:15 PM »

Quote
but I find the injunction to "be holy" enshrined in the rules of this very board to be, at best, inappropriate

I do,too, esp. because what is "holy" varies depending on who you ask. That's just asking for someone who is an agnostic to complain. No, I'm not agnostic, I'm just saying.

That's why I want to limit the religious stuff to here, and I dunno, keep it in one thread. I just don't want to see it turn up in places where it shouldn't (esp in , say, a discussion about SMiLE acetates). That way, nobody gets hurt.

Or maybe I'm just blowing smoke out of my ass again.
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Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
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Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





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« Reply #69 on: July 28, 2006, 03:13:05 PM »

If we had anonymous inspirational quotes within the rules of this board would it irritate people? Most of things which Charles posts from the Bible are simply inspirational passages. You don't have to believe in the christian God to see the wisdom which is contained within most of the Bible. As far as I know (and someone correct me if otherwise -- with proof) Charles hasn't posted anything which spoke of a non-believers faith, or anything to do with a non-believer and that persons relation to the christian faith.

"Starting a quarrel is like opening a floodgate, so stop before a dispute breaks out."

Is that quote to be seen as simply as one in many lines from the Bible, or is it general wisdom for us all to try and live by?

Oh, and just incase anyone thinks I'm a real reverend ( Cheesy ) this username is a character from a film. 
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« Reply #70 on: July 28, 2006, 03:18:15 PM »

Quote
but I find the injunction to "be holy" enshrined in the rules of this very board to be, at best, inappropriate

I do,too, esp. because what is "holy" varies depending on who you ask. That's just asking for someone who is an agnostic to complain. No, I'm not agnostic, I'm just saying.

That's why I want to limit the religious stuff to here, and I dunno, keep it in one thread. I just don't want to see it turn up in places where it shouldn't (esp in , say, a discussion about SMiLE acetates). That way, nobody gets hurt.

Or maybe I'm just blowing smoke out of my ass again.

Well, I'm not privvy to your little quirks, but whatever pulls your chain...

Seriously, that's a good compromise.
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« Reply #71 on: July 28, 2006, 03:35:36 PM »

Quote
Well, I'm not privvy to your little quirks, but whatever pulls your chain...
  LOL Good one!

Anyway, glad we seem to be on the same page. Now I can take you to task for not liking "Here she Comes".

 Razz
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Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
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Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





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« Reply #72 on: July 28, 2006, 04:55:43 PM »

Not to mention your unyielding support of - - oh man!  I"m drawing a blank!  The one released Mike Love album.  It's so bad i can't even remember what it's called, and yet - you LIKE it!  *shudders*
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« Reply #73 on: July 28, 2006, 05:10:21 PM »

I actually like it, as does my wife. It's not as good as Dennis (obviously), nor any of Brian's except Imagination, but it's far superior to Bruce's Goin Pubic or either of Carl's albums.
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"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
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Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





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« Reply #74 on: July 28, 2006, 05:20:21 PM »

Aw, Joe...i just so totally disagree with you on that.  It is NOT "far superior" to ANY of those albums!  It's just bad.  Bad, bad, bad!  And no, i'm not the least bit biased!
;-)
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