Mike's Book Discussion Thread (and how it relates to the SS board)

[jeffh]

Or maybe Mike is just telling the truth ! Has that ever occurred to you?

[HeyJude]

I think the idea is that, unless Mike is saying he personally witnessed Brian sign that document, that Mike could be telling the truth as he knows it (a document exists with Brian's signature), but would have no way of speaking to whether it was forged or not.

Normally, suggesting a signature was forged sounds like a rather desperate argument. But in this case, there apparently existed many years ago a full allegation/suggestion that Brian's signature was forged. If Mike raised Brian's signature as proof of Brian's complicity, but didn't even mention the accusation/suggestion that someone forged Brian's signature, I think that's a legit complaint.

Others have dug deeper into the songwriting cases (both Brian's and Mike's), but this LA Times article from 1989 mentions that one of the accusations in Brian's 1989 lawsuit was forgery of his signature:

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-09-19/entertainment/ca-4315_1_brian-wilson

[Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll]

Whats the deal with that rocky/steve/brian dialogue after the heroin incident? Is there a recording of that somewhere?

[HeyJude]

Whats the deal with that rocky/steve/brian dialogue after the heroin incident? Is there a recording of that somewhere?

Apparently so. I think Steven Gaines may have been working from the same tapes, and some of the dialogue in Mike's book is repeated from the Gaines book.

[guitarfool2002]

Or maybe Mike is just telling the truth ! Has that ever occurred to you?

What HeyJude just said:

I think the idea is that, unless Mike is saying he personally witnessed Brian sign that document, that Mike could be telling the truth as he knows it (a document exists with Brian's signature), but would have no way of speaking to whether it was forged or not.

Normally, suggesting a signature was forged sounds like a rather desperate argument. But in this case, there apparently existed many years ago a full allegation/suggestion that Brian's signature was forged. If Mike raised Brian's signature as proof of Brian's complicity, but didn't even mention the accusation/suggestion that someone forged Brian's signature, I think that's a legit complaint.

Others have dug deeper into the songwriting cases (both Brian's and Mike's), but this LA Times article from 1989 mentions that one of the accusations in Brian's 1989 lawsuit was forgery of his signature:

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-09-19/entertainment/ca-4315_1_brian-wilson

And what the report on the case filing said:

The Superior Court suit makes a variety of charges, including forgery of Wilson's signature on the original 1969 contract in dispute, plus malpractice, misrepresentations, suppression of facts, breach of contract and conflicts of interest.


Note "forgery". Once that gets into the mix and especially if it gets proven that even one document had a forged signature, every signature in the case's evidence is under scrutiny.

As HeyJude said - Mike could very well have seen a document with Brian's signature. The question is was it forged, or real?

Brian won the case.

[HeyJude]

Random amusing trivia from the book: Mike says Al hated the line "pretty mama" in "Kokomo." Mike then proceeds to basically use the same "appealing to the masses" reasoning he does with everything else in continuing on in his EPICALLY EXTENSIVE breakdown of the song's writing and recording.

I was half expecting Mike to continue the story with a poetic, filled-with-flourishes description of the song reaching the CD pressing plants and being lovingly encoded into digital information.

Really, the only think the "Kokomo" chapter is missing is detailed weather reports from each day the song was written and recorded, and a breakdown of what each studio musician ate on the day they recorded their parts.

My favorite part of the epic "Kokomo" saga in the book is this:

"For the actual recording, Van Dyke Parks, the lyricist from the Smile era, played the accordion...."

I think it's hilarious and telling that Mike thinks the typical person reading this book *still* won't know who Van Dyke Parks is at this point in the book, even *after* he has already been discussed many pages back in the "Smile" section. In the book, he tosses off names like his lawyer Michael Flynn without reiterating who the guy is, but Van Dyke Parks, who the f**k is that?

[HeyJude]

One of the more dick-ish moments in the book comes in Mike describing Brian's non-participation on the "Kokomo" recording. No new info really, he reiterates what he has said many times which is that they invited Brian, but Landy wouldn't let it happen, and then Landy made Brian think the band had purposely not included him.

You'd think this would be one of many moments where Mike would lament Landy's actions and show some empathy for how bad Landy was making it for Brian at that stage. But f**k me, Mike just can't do it. He can always *start* to express sympathy or empathy, but he can't get through one damn sentence or paragraph without offering a snide remark:

"We hadn't snubbed anyone - Brian was victimized by his own therapist turned producer - but I'm sure that part of his "hurt" stemmed from what happened with the song. Kokomo climbed the charts to No. 1......"

So Mike takes a quick moment to ponder the CRIMINAL and UNETHICAL lengths Landy took in caring for Brian, yet quickly moves on to assuming Brian was just as "hurt" by the band having a successful song without him as he was "hurt" by Landy. It's pretty offensive if you ask me. Especially since Mike produces no actual quotes indicating Brian was all torn up about "Kokomo" being a hit. The band had already had various levels of hits without much if any Brian involvement. "Come Go With Me", "Lady Lynda", the single version of "Cotton Fields", and so on.

For a guy that seems so epically bent out of shape when Brian writes with someone else, Mike seems to be unable to have much empathy for doing a song without Brian's involvement. Especially when Mike acknowledges that Brian was *manipulated* into not participating.

[Juice Brohnston]

My sincere hope is that, post book, Mike can move on. The end is closer than the beginning. Chances are there won't be any more reunions or collaborations. So from here on in, Mike can do his shows, bank his cheques, and do what he loves. If any of these 'local' type interviews he does on tour want to bring up Brian, or related issues, Mike should just say. "It's in the book. I've said my peace. I love my cousin and wish him the best"

[NOLA BB Fan]

One of the more dick-ish moments in the book comes in Mike describing Brian's non-participation on the "Kokomo" recording. ...
You'd think this would be one of many moments where Mike would lament Landy's actions and show some empathy for how bad Landy was making it for Brian at that stage. ... He can always *start* to express sympathy or empathy, but he can't get through one damn sentence or paragraph without offering a snide remark:

"We hadn't snubbed anyone - Brian was victimized by his own therapist turned producer - but I'm sure that part of his "hurt" stemmed from what happened with the song. Kokomo climbed the charts to No. 1......"

So Mike takes a quick moment to ponder the CRIMINAL and UNETHICAL lengths Landy took in caring for Brian, yet quickly moves on to assuming Brian was just as "hurt" by the band having a successful song without him as he was "hurt" by Landy. It's pretty offensive if you ask me.

Yes, this was a What The? moment for me as well. Trying so hard to have a better impression of Mike, but he keeps shooting himself in the foot.

[thorgil]

My sincere hope is that, post book, Mike can move on. The end is closer than the beginning. Chances are there won't be any more reunions or collaborations. So from here on in, Mike can do his shows, bank his cheques, and do what he loves. If any of these 'local' type interviews he does on tour want to bring up Brian, or related issues, Mike should just say. "It's in the book. I've said my peace. I love my cousin and wish him the best"

Yes, would be good. Fat chance...

[thorgil]

One of the more dick-ish moments in the book comes in Mike describing Brian's non-participation on the "Kokomo" recording. ...
You'd think this would be one of many moments where Mike would lament Landy's actions and show some empathy for how bad Landy was making it for Brian at that stage. ... He can always *start* to express sympathy or empathy, but he can't get through one damn sentence or paragraph without offering a snide remark:

"We hadn't snubbed anyone - Brian was victimized by his own therapist turned producer - but I'm sure that part of his "hurt" stemmed from what happened with the song. Kokomo climbed the charts to No. 1......"

So Mike takes a quick moment to ponder the CRIMINAL and UNETHICAL lengths Landy took in caring for Brian, yet quickly moves on to assuming Brian was just as "hurt" by the band having a successful song without him as he was "hurt" by Landy. It's pretty offensive if you ask me.

Yes, this was a What The? moment for me as well. Trying so hard to have a better impression of Mike, but he keeps shooting himself in the foot.

That's ALWAYS been the problem with Mike. The moment one listens to, say, "The Warmth of the Sun" and starts mellowing again to him, hey presto! At once comes an interview, a passage of his book or whatever to sour things yet again.
It's frustrating to WISH being a fan of someone and finding it impossible.

[jeffh]

Lot's of haters here. Wow . Mike seems pretty much at peace with himself .

[tpesky]

I don't think Mike will ever be at peace with himself. Part of the reason he keeps touring at the pace he does. He is still trying to prove himself and the book is another example. Mike's always fighting and grinding...been that way for over 50 years.

[thorgil]

Lot's of haters here. Wow . Mike seems pretty much at peace with himself .

Once I'd like to show you a sample of what I say when I really hate somebody, but suffice to say that I'd not call their voice "wonderful", like I did in the thread about Mike's best vocals.

[Debbie KL]

Lot's of haters here. Wow . Mike seems pretty much at peace with himself .

It's always a delight to be called a "hater" because, well, that's the dog whistle phrase.

And thanks for letting us know that Mike's so at peace with himself.  It's reassuring.  It was hard for me to tell since I'm wondering why he keeps feeling the need to attack people over 50-year-old issues, then attacking Brian's wife, etc. 

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Lot's of haters here. Wow . Mike seems pretty much at peace with himself .

Lots of haters everywhere, not just here. Unlike the others in the band, myKe luHv will go to his grave being the most hated laughed at clown in rock music, bar none. And he himself did it to himself. There's no one else to blame but he'll certainly try like hell to do so, won't he?

[18thofMay]

Lot's of haters here. Wow . Mike seems pretty much at peace with himself .

Hi Jeff how are you mate?
Everything OK at your end?
Thank you for the contribution to this thread.

Mike may be at peace with himself, but if that peace comes at the expense of others then that's a reflection of what truly drives his soul.

[Emily]

Random amusing trivia from the book: Mike says Al hated the line "pretty mama" in "Kokomo." Mike then proceeds to basically use the same "appealing to the masses" reasoning he does with everything else in continuing on in his EPICALLY EXTENSIVE breakdown of the song's writing and recording.

The "pretty mama" is the main thing that keeps me from being able to embrace Kokomo. The verses are fine, a little blah, but I really like the intervals in the chorus, and I'll hit the scan button and listen to Carl's smooth-as-silk lines any day, but the "pretty mama" always sort of interrupts my brain and makes me cringe.

"We hadn't snubbed anyone - Brian was victimized by his own therapist turned producer - but I'm sure that part of his "hurt" stemmed from what happened with the song. Kokomo climbed the charts to No. 1......"

That's really bad. To put the 'hurt' in quotes; to look back and know what Brian was going through, and to gloat about him being off Kokomo? It's really bad. I actually feel pretty sad about that quote.

Hey Jude, I won't be able to read the book for a bit, so maybe you can satisfy a point of curiosity for me. You mentioned Stan and Rocky. Obviously, from the Rocky thread, there's a great deal of vitriol going at least one way between Steve/Rocky and Mike. What did Mike have to say about Steve?

[thorgil]

Kokomo: on the contrary, I think the "pretty mama" part is wonderfully catchy.

But that sentence about Brian's "hurt"... that's simply awful. How can one, and one ostensibly so sensitive to his public image, let a thing like that slip? It's like Mike writes only for his group of yespeople, who will cheer him no matter what, and totally disregards the effect such an unwarranted vitriolic sentence has on everybody else.

[Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll]

Only Mike could have his lawyer as his best man 

[rn57]

http://www.nytimes.com/books/best-sellers/hardcover-nonfiction/

Enters the list at 15. And you just know that tonight in his La Jolla appearance and tomorrow, confronting hipsters at The Tattered Corner in Denver, Mike will point out that of all the 40 or so books written about (or by) the BBs as a band or individual members in the last 40 years, his is the first to appear on a national bestseller list.

(It might be that Gaines's H&V and Brian/Todd Gold's WIBN got on the LA Times bestseller list but that would have covered only sales in LA and Orange counties in California.)

[CenturyDeprived]

Kokomo: on the contrary, I think the "pretty mama" part is wonderfully catchy.

But that sentence about Brian's "hurt"... that's simply awful. How can one, and one ostensibly so sensitive to his public image, let a thing like that slip? It's like Mike writes only for his group of yespeople, who will cheer him no matter what, and totally disregards the effect such an unwarranted vitriolic sentence has on everybody else.

It does open the door to making it seem that Mike thinks that Brian somehow "fakes" being hurt about things. Just not cool. Maybe Mike does in fact think that, but who drops that in a book, particularly when Mike specifically has the reputation he has for not seemingly showing he has empathy for Brian being hurt about any number of things (unrelated to Kokomo)?

Mike in a nutshell: "people dislike me for showing a lack of empathy for a person who's suffered deeply by (and who has had years of their life derailed by) emotional problems.  I'll continually go out of my way to mock their "hurt" feelings when I see fit, and then wonder - and publicly complain about - why people don't like me".  The Biff Tannen/Donald Trump school of logic.

I don't think Brian cried or lost sleep about not being on Kokomo (does anyone think that?), but it's pretty lame to say. Does Mike get to be the one to publicly say how hurt (or not hurt) Brian is about any given subject? Especially the subject of not being included on a BB song (ironically, a VERY sensitive topic for Mike on TWGMTR, that nobody must ever mock).

Do I have to think Brian walks on water to question this? Questioning Mike's words is based on my understanding of basic human/family courtesy, not some "Brian worship". Doesn't make Mike the antichrist, just shockingly insensitive and surrounded by people who enable this.  I suppose Mike defenders would have to be ok if everyone started talking about Mike being "hurt" by all sorts of stuff too?  

I really don't think this is some sort of manufactured outrage, as Mike's people would probably claim. The subject of Brian being deeply wounded about Kokomo seems a bit farfetched, but who is anybody but Brian to say?  Brian probably had many mixed/scrambled emotions about being estranged from his band at the time. The reason fans get pissed at the "hurt" comment is just the cumulative effect of lots of little sh*tty things like this, over decades, that eat away at people having much empathy for the Lovester. In particular, it's tough to see Mike's mockery of Brian's hurt feelings in this instance as not being just the tip of the iceberg for that type of thing.

I'm starting to think Brian wrote The Honeys' song "You Brought it All On Yourself" as a future ode to Mike. It's so frustrating to be a fan of this band. I just really, really want Mike to stop doing things to earn his poor reputation. I still point out his awesome contributions to people in person all the time. So yeah, I am an active proponent of making sure Mike's talents are appreciated. I'm a real "hater" I suppose.

[thorgil]

The more people read Mike's book, the happier I am. As long as I am not one of them (I just looked, there is still no law forcing me).

[pixletwin]

I am about halfway thru. So far its been a good read. I feel like I know Mike a bit better. At least I see his perspective a bit clearer.

[Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll]

I am about halfway thru. So far its been a good read. I feel like I know Mike a bit better. At least I see his perspective a bit clearer.

I really enjoyed the 1st half of the book. Some great little details I had not heard before and Mike came across very well. 2nd half fell apart for me, felt like an endless namedrop....oddly almost like watching an episode of full house as it felt so formulaic with Mike the hero or righteous victim each time.