Mike's Book Discussion Thread (and how it relates to the SS board)

[filledeplage]

Okay, so I'll put it this way, Mike kept Brian (and Al) out of the touring Beach Boys in the fall of 2012.

For all the interviews that Mike will sit for in the next few months, would someone please ask him some questions about Summer in Paradise and why it was a complete failure.

urbanite - IIRC Brian was unavailable to help with that album because of that maniac Landy.  I think (an observation) is that Lahaina Aloha was the strongest song with Carl's extraordinary yearning vocals and should have been the single released.  I do think that taken-as-a-whole, that SIP shows that they all needed each other.  I think they need Brian's production skills alongside their vocals.  

From the Endless Harmony DVD, it appears that really Brian really regretted (because he was locked away by Landy) that he was not involved with that era of work because he was forcibly separated from his bandmates.  

The music is not bad; it is the presentation that didn't work well. At the time, it didn't seem that bad but now sounds a little dated.  But, I still actually like that album just because it was something new and demonstrates that they were still trying to stay-in-the-game.

Guess I look at it differently.  

You think Summer of Love, with its "doing it with you would be so very cool" barf-tastic lyrics is a good song, and that it's just production that is its problem?

Still waiting for FDP to respond to my question...

CD - I guess I have a problem with someone asking a question in a confrontational manner.   

The lyrics?  I did not write them.  You think they are barf-worthy?  That is your taste.  So what  - you don't like them.  That is your choice.  You you trying to censor Mike or whomever penned them?  Seriously.

[HeyJude]

Okay, so I'll put it this way, Mike kept Brian (and Al) out of the touring Beach Boys in the fall of 2012.

For all the interviews that Mike will sit for in the next few months, would someone please ask him some questions about Summer in Paradise and why it was a complete failure.

urbanite - IIRC Brian was unavailable to help with that album because of that maniac Landy.  I think (an observation) is that Lahaina Aloha was the strongest song with Carl's extraordinary yearning vocals and should have been the single released.  I do think that taken-as-a-whole, that SIP shows that they all needed each other.  I think they need Brian's production skills alongside their vocals.  

From the Endless Harmony DVD, it appears that really Brian really regretted (because he was locked away by Landy) that he was not involved with that era of work because he was forcibly separated from his bandmates.  

The music is not bad; it is the presentation that didn't work well. At the time, it didn't seem that bad but now sounds a little dated.  But, I still actually like that album just because it was something new and demonstrates that they were still trying to stay-in-the-game.

Guess I look at it differently.  

You think Summer of Love, with its "doing it with you would be so very cool" barf-tastic lyrics is a good song, and that it's just production that is its problem?

Still waiting for FDP to respond to my question...

CD - I guess I have a problem with someone asking a question in a confrontational manner.   

The lyrics?  I did not write them.  You think they are barf-worthy?  That is your taste.  So what  - you don't like them.  That is your choice.  You you trying to censor Mike or whomever penned them?  Seriously.

Please *stop* with accusations of censorship. Nobody is trying to censor anything, nobody is claiming they want to censor anything, and nobody has the ABILITY to censor Mike's SIP lyrics unless they have a time machine as well as legal authority to keep Mike from penning lyrics.

Disagreeing with you is not being "confrontational", nor is saying lyrics suck a case of censorship.

If you want to engage in a debate, and then drop out of it when you reach a point where you can't or won't answer anyone's questions to explain your opinion, that's fine. But CD isn't being confrontational, but instead is simply asking questions. In many cases, these are questions that arise from *your* comments and posts.

Your accusations and mischaracterizations of other posters is becoming rather insulting in my opinion.

[HeyJude]

Hey Jude - Melcher (talented as he was) - was not a BB.  Even if he was around during Pet Sounds.  There was no substitute for Brian and his regret was clear on the Endless Harmony DVD.  

Terry Melcher had a bigger hand in SIP than any individual other than Mike. Doesn't matter whether he was an actual BB or not. I would never argue, for instance, that Joe Thomas wasn't a prominent player in TWGMTR. Much like Melcher, he co-wrote most of the tracks and was involved in the production side of things as well.

I also think you're overstating Brian's "regret" on the EH DVD. His comments were specifically about "Kokomo"; SIP isn't even mentioned in the documentary and the circumstances regarding his non-appearance on SIP are *not* necessarily the same as those for "Kokomo." Also, my own personal interpretation of his very brief comment on that one was that he was bummed, and that's about it. I don't think he loses sleep over it.

[filledeplage]

Hey Jude - Melcher (talented as he was) - was not a BB.  Even if he was around during Pet Sounds.  There was no substitute for Brian and his regret was clear on the Endless Harmony DVD.  

Terry Melcher had a bigger hand in SIP than any individual other than Mike. Doesn't matter whether he was an actual BB or not. I would never argue, for instance, that Joe Thomas wasn't a prominent player in TWGMTR. Much like Melcher, he co-wrote most of the tracks and was involved in the production side of things as well.

I also think you're overstating Brian's "regret" on the EH DVD. His comments were specifically about "Kokomo"; SIP isn't even mentioned in the documentary and the circumstances regarding his non-appearance on SIP are *not* necessarily the same as those for "Kokomo." Also, my own personal interpretation of his very brief comment on that one was that he was bummed, and that's about it. I don't think he loses sleep over it.

Kokomo was the biggest seller since GV.  That was the "era" of Kokomo.  SIP was important enough as a song performed live to be included in MIC.  I think that speaks for itself.

[CenturyDeprived]

In both cases, the literal allegation has been debunked. But instead of acknowledging that both allegations spring from basic elements and concepts that *are* accurate (e.g. his apprehensive nature when it came to experimental lyrics, and his dismantling of a reunion and rejection of a willing and ready Brian), Mike hones in on proving why the literal core language of the allegation is technically untrue.

It's a common technique of deflection. I would always tell someone who wants to make a valid, cogent argument to explain some of the downsides to Mike that using the "don't f**k with the formula" or "Mike fired Brian" arguments is the wrong way to go, because it allows Mike to avoid answering the more fundamental questions (such as "Do you acknowledge that perhaps your being apprehensive about more progressive music ideas might have had a downside for Brian and the band?" or "You didn't fire Brian, but would you acknowledge that you did reject a willing and ready Brian in favor of your own tour?") and instead to simply play the victim by pointing out the technically incorrect verbiage being used in the criticisms.

This is so very true. One can virtually guarantee that if asked this question by an interviewer:  "Do you acknowledge that perhaps your being apprehensive about more progressive music ideas might have had a downside for Brian and the band?", Mike's non-answer would probably be "progressive music ideas meant drugs, and drugs had a bad effect on Brian", as opposed to any acknowledgement of the actual question.

Maybe, just maybe Brian took drugs in part to cope with dealing with relatives (including, but also other than his dad) who dealt in guilt trips and psychological warfare.

I want to know why Mike thinks that Brian chose Tony Asher to write Pet Sounds, instead of sticking with Mike. Oh, I know: because all of the hipster douchebags coerced him to. It could never because Brian got tired of working with someone with a sh*tty attitude.

[CenturyDeprived]

Okay, so I'll put it this way, Mike kept Brian (and Al) out of the touring Beach Boys in the fall of 2012.

For all the interviews that Mike will sit for in the next few months, would someone please ask him some questions about Summer in Paradise and why it was a complete failure.

urbanite - IIRC Brian was unavailable to help with that album because of that maniac Landy.  I think (an observation) is that Lahaina Aloha was the strongest song with Carl's extraordinary yearning vocals and should have been the single released.  I do think that taken-as-a-whole, that SIP shows that they all needed each other.  I think they need Brian's production skills alongside their vocals.  

From the Endless Harmony DVD, it appears that really Brian really regretted (because he was locked away by Landy) that he was not involved with that era of work because he was forcibly separated from his bandmates.  

The music is not bad; it is the presentation that didn't work well. At the time, it didn't seem that bad but now sounds a little dated.  But, I still actually like that album just because it was something new and demonstrates that they were still trying to stay-in-the-game.

Guess I look at it differently.  

You think Summer of Love, with its "doing it with you would be so very cool" barf-tastic lyrics is a good song, and that it's just production that is its problem?

Still waiting for FDP to respond to my question...

CD - I guess I have a problem with someone asking a question in a confrontational manner.   

The lyrics?  I did not write them.  You think they are barf-worthy?  That is your taste.  So what  - you don't like them.  That is your choice.  You you trying to censor Mike or whomever penned them?  Seriously.

I'm asking you if you actually like the song (production values aside), and think there's some gem of a song lurking underneath the early '90s production, as you insinuate is the case with the album as a whole. I'm curious to know if you think that's true with regards to the song Summer of Love. That is all.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Book tidbit: Mike's so not-racist that black people don't mind it when he calls them ni**er (p. 16).

...there are no words...

[CenturyDeprived]

Book tidbit: Mike's so not-racist that black people don't mind it when he calls them ni**er (p. 16).

...there are no words...

 

[filledeplage]

Okay, so I'll put it this way, Mike kept Brian (and Al) out of the touring Beach Boys in the fall of 2012.

For all the interviews that Mike will sit for in the next few months, would someone please ask him some questions about Summer in Paradise and why it was a complete failure.

urbanite - IIRC Brian was unavailable to help with that album because of that maniac Landy.  I think (an observation) is that Lahaina Aloha was the strongest song with Carl's extraordinary yearning vocals and should have been the single released.  I do think that taken-as-a-whole, that SIP shows that they all needed each other.  I think they need Brian's production skills alongside their vocals.  

From the Endless Harmony DVD, it appears that really Brian really regretted (because he was locked away by Landy) that he was not involved with that era of work because he was forcibly separated from his bandmates.  

The music is not bad; it is the presentation that didn't work well. At the time, it didn't seem that bad but now sounds a little dated.  But, I still actually like that album just because it was something new and demonstrates that they were still trying to stay-in-the-game.

Guess I look at it differently.  

You think Summer of Love, with its "doing it with you would be so very cool" barf-tastic lyrics is a good song, and that it's just production that is its problem?

Still waiting for FDP to respond to my question...

CD - I guess I have a problem with someone asking a question in a confrontational manner.   

The lyrics?  I did not write them.  You think they are barf-worthy?  That is your taste.  So what  - you don't like them.  That is your choice.  You you trying to censor Mike or whomever penned them?  Seriously.

I'm asking you if you actually like the song (production values aside), and think there's some gem of a song lurking underneath the early '90s production, as you insinuate is the case with the album as a whole. I'm curious to know if you think that's true with regards to the song Summer of Love. That is all.

CD - as a song, I think it is mezza-mezza.  How many songs that look so-so, end up as big hits because of the vocals or the arrangment?  

eg.  Help Me, Ronda on Today v. Help Me Rhonda on Summer Days.  I

And, I do think it depends on the vocals and arrangment. But also, that if Brian was a "free man" during that "era" because that TV time-span (Baywatch, Full House, You again) or (Cocktail) for Kokomo was an "era" for them and Brian's participation would likely have made a difference.  

We now know Brian was not "free" to work except for that poor-excuse-for-a-medical provider.  Brian's talents were being exploited elsewhere outside of his own corporation. BRI.  

[HeyJude]

Hey Jude - Melcher (talented as he was) - was not a BB.  Even if he was around during Pet Sounds.  There was no substitute for Brian and his regret was clear on the Endless Harmony DVD.  

Terry Melcher had a bigger hand in SIP than any individual other than Mike. Doesn't matter whether he was an actual BB or not. I would never argue, for instance, that Joe Thomas wasn't a prominent player in TWGMTR. Much like Melcher, he co-wrote most of the tracks and was involved in the production side of things as well.

I also think you're overstating Brian's "regret" on the EH DVD. His comments were specifically about "Kokomo"; SIP isn't even mentioned in the documentary and the circumstances regarding his non-appearance on SIP are *not* necessarily the same as those for "Kokomo." Also, my own personal interpretation of his very brief comment on that one was that he was bummed, and that's about it. I don't think he loses sleep over it.

Kokomo was the biggest seller since GV.  That was the "era" of Kokomo.  SIP was important enough as a song performed live to be included in MIC.  I think that speaks for itself.

I don't believe conflating "Kokomo" and SIP is appropriate when referencing Brian's statement in EH (made *specifically* about "Kokomo" only) or Brian's reasons for non-participation.

As far as track selection on MIC, a lot of different factors go into that. I wouldn't pretend to assume the precise reason for inclusion, or whether compilers thought it was an "important" song. I don't like to make those assumptions, because it then tends to imply they find other songs left off as less important. I don't think, for instance, that "SIP" needed to be on the set any more than "Still Cruisin'" as a random example.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Mike Love Good Vibrations Book Trailer - Full Version
https://youtu.be/OutWymKjErk

SPOILER: He remade the early version of "Big Sur". Complete with autotuned vocals.  

My God...so fucking pompous. If someone was a brand new fan, they'd think he was the sole creative force behind the Beach Boys and Brian helped. I mean, sh*t, he deserves far more credit than history has given him, but this was going overboard. And of course, all of the music in the trailer was re-recordings with current band. Gotta erase those pesky Wilsons and Jardine!

[SMiLE Brian]

Anything near SIP would have never happened if BW's input was welcome anymore in the BBs. SIP was Mike's dead on arrival product.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Hey Jude - I think that Brian's being "imprisoned" by Landy has everything to do with the direction SIP went.  There were some cool musicians (such as Parks on accordian) but it did not come together as well as it might have with Brian's direction.  For the time, it still was not bad because some stuff got airplay by other routes.  

Yes, they were well-able to strong material without Brian but, being a throw-back album - with retro stuff, going back to their genesis, Brian might have been able to approach the material differently and use less of the computerized stuff. (Even if at the time it was cutting edge. )

I think it was more Terry Melcher than anything else, who was out of touch by that point.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

SIP "live" on MIC is pretty universally regarded as awesome

By whom?

Also, and I recognize this is my own personal opinion, but I prefer the original studio version to any of the live versions of the re-record!

[filledeplage]

Hey Jude - Melcher (talented as he was) - was not a BB.  Even if he was around during Pet Sounds.  There was no substitute for Brian and his regret was clear on the Endless Harmony DVD.  

Terry Melcher had a bigger hand in SIP than any individual other than Mike. Doesn't matter whether he was an actual BB or not. I would never argue, for instance, that Joe Thomas wasn't a prominent player in TWGMTR. Much like Melcher, he co-wrote most of the tracks and was involved in the production side of things as well.

I also think you're overstating Brian's "regret" on the EH DVD. His comments were specifically about "Kokomo"; SIP isn't even mentioned in the documentary and the circumstances regarding his non-appearance on SIP are *not* necessarily the same as those for "Kokomo." Also, my own personal interpretation of his very brief comment on that one was that he was bummed, and that's about it. I don't think he loses sleep over it.

Kokomo was the biggest seller since GV.  That was the "era" of Kokomo.  SIP was important enough as a song performed live to be included in MIC.  I think that speaks for itself.

I don't believe conflating "Kokomo" and SIP is appropriate when referencing Brian's statement in EH (made *specifically* about "Kokomo" only) or Brian's reasons for non-participation.

As far as track selection on MIC, a lot of different factors go into that. I wouldn't pretend to assume the precise reason for inclusion, or whether compilers thought it was an "important" song. I don't like to make those assumptions, because it then tends to imply they find other songs left off as less important. I don't think, for instance, that "SIP" needed to be on the set any more than "Still Cruisin'" as a random example.

Hey Jude - Kokomo and SIP are from the same era or body of work from late 80's early 90's. Conflating?  SIP is kick-ass live, as are Carl's vocals.  (My opinion.)

Still Cruisin' still had foisted on them, with Landy's forcefullness, "In My Car" (wife from Baywatch) or Make it Big from Troop Beverly Hills.  Same basic era.  

Found a quote on wiki..."Mike Love said, 'The theme of that album was to have been songs that have been in movies.  It was basically a repackage. But then it got watered down with politics, meaning Brian's Dr. Landy forcing a song called "In My Car,"  whch was never in a movie..."  

Did not know that Still Cruisin'  went gold in the US (and Austria) and gave them the best showing since 1976."  From Album Sales Records. (I am not familiar with this source.)  

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Please *stop* with accusations of censorship. Nobody is trying to censor anything, nobody is claiming they want to censor anything, and nobody has the ABILITY to censor Mike's SIP lyrics unless they have a time machine as well as legal authority to keep Mike from penning lyrics.

Disagreeing with you is not being "confrontational", nor is saying lyrics suck a case of censorship.

If you want to engage in a debate, and then drop out of it when you reach a point where you can't or won't answer anyone's questions to explain your opinion, that's fine. But CD isn't being confrontational, but instead is simply asking questions. In many cases, these are questions that arise from *your* comments and posts.

Your accusations and mischaracterizations of other posters is becoming rather insulting in my opinion.

Agreed.

[HeyJude]

Hey Jude - Kokomo and SIP are from the same era or body of work from late 80's early 90's. Conflating?  SIP is kick-ass live, as are Carl's vocals.  (My opinion.)

Carl's vocals have nothing to do with conflating the two projects.

"Kokomo" is from 1988. "SIP" is from 1992 (with a partially remixed/rerecorded version coming in 1993).

Brian was firmly in the grip of Landy in 1988.

Brian was separated from Landy by court order on or around February 3, 1992.

SIP was still being recorded when Brian was separated from Landy, yet Brian didn't participate. The Landy saga certainly was *part* of the reason he wasn't there for those sessions, but there were other factors involved as well.

SIP was released in the US in August, 1992 and in the UK in May, 1993. That Brian never even made a cameo appearance on one single session through 1992 and into 1993 was due to more than the Landy situation.

[guitarfool2002]

Hey Jude - Melcher (talented as he was) - was not a BB.  Even if he was around during Pet Sounds.  There was no substitute for Brian and his regret was clear on the Endless Harmony DVD.  

Terry Melcher had a bigger hand in SIP than any individual other than Mike. Doesn't matter whether he was an actual BB or not. I would never argue, for instance, that Joe Thomas wasn't a prominent player in TWGMTR. Much like Melcher, he co-wrote most of the tracks and was involved in the production side of things as well.

I also think you're overstating Brian's "regret" on the EH DVD. His comments were specifically about "Kokomo"; SIP isn't even mentioned in the documentary and the circumstances regarding his non-appearance on SIP are *not* necessarily the same as those for "Kokomo." Also, my own personal interpretation of his very brief comment on that one was that he was bummed, and that's about it. I don't think he loses sleep over it.

Kokomo was the biggest seller since GV.  That was the "era" of Kokomo.  SIP was important enough as a song performed live to be included in MIC.  I think that speaks for itself.

I don't believe conflating "Kokomo" and SIP is appropriate when referencing Brian's statement in EH (made *specifically* about "Kokomo" only) or Brian's reasons for non-participation.

As far as track selection on MIC, a lot of different factors go into that. I wouldn't pretend to assume the precise reason for inclusion, or whether compilers thought it was an "important" song. I don't like to make those assumptions, because it then tends to imply they find other songs left off as less important. I don't think, for instance, that "SIP" needed to be on the set any more than "Still Cruisin'" as a random example.

Hey Jude - Kokomo and SIP are from the same era or body of work from late 80's early 90's. Conflating?  SIP is kick-ass live, as are Carl's vocals.  (My opinion.)

Still Cruisin' still had foisted on them, with Landy's forcefullness, "In My Car" (wife from Baywatch) or Make it Big from Troop Beverly Hills.  Same basic era.  

Found a quote on wiki..."Mike Love said, 'The theme of that album was to have been songs that have been in movies.  It was basically a repackage. But then it got watered down with politics, meaning Brian's Dr. Landy forcing a song called "In My Car,"  whch was never in a movie..."  

Did not know that Still Cruisin'  went gold in the US (and Austria) and gave them the best showing since 1976."  From Album Sales Records. (I am not familiar with this source.)  

Let's set the record straight on that, and yes I have looked at that era extensively and posted here about it.

The album that became Still Cruisin' was supposed to have been a new Beach Boys album to capitalize on the success and renewed exposure from Kokomo and Cocktail. There are quotes from Capitol execs who were banking on the talent in the band to come up with strong original material to fill an album, and gave them a record deal for new singles that had conditions based on the success of what they hoped would be follow ups to Kokomo.

Despite having a Grammy award winning songwriter in Bruce, and Mike, Carl, and Al as songwriters within the group, the band could not come up with a solid album of new material. Capitol still needed something to put Kokomo on under their own label to drive sales and make bank, as Kokomo came out on a soundtrack and under a one-off release under another label when the band literally did not have a label deal.

Despite articles and reports that had the band saying they wanted to make new music, they wanted to get on the charts, they didn't want to be a traveling oldies revue but instead focus on cutting new records...they simply did not or could not deliver.

Thus, Still Cruisin became more of a catch-all compilation rather than a solid album of new Beach Boys music, yet it sold exactly as Capitol probably wanted because fans could buy a "Beach Boys" album to get the song Kokomo, rather than having to buy the Cocktail soundtrack to have the song.

And since there was no follow-up of strong or successful original material as Capitol had put in their deal to the BB's, the label passed on releasing what did become their next album, SIP, and that had to be shopped to a lesser label because Capitol passed on the deal.

That's the brass tacks of the Still Cruisin album being a comp rather than a new album. For more info, search my posts in the archives here for even more detail. The band did not deliver when the market was hot for them to release a follow-up to a #1 single despite having four songwriters in the group and access to the same team that produced Kokomo.

[HeyJude]

Also, Mike's contemporary comments about the "Still Cruisin'" album suggest he felt the watered-down aspect of the album was *not* the oldies, but non-movie songs. That would have meant even *less* original material, as not only would that have dispensed with "In My Car", but also "Island Girl" and Mike's own "Somewhere Near Japan."

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

This is so very true. One can virtually guarantee that if asked this question by an interviewer:  "Do you acknowledge that perhaps your being apprehensive about more progressive music ideas might have had a downside for Brian and the band?", Mike's non-answer would probably be "progressive music ideas meant drugs, and drugs had a bad effect on Brian", as opposed to any acknowledgement of the actual question.

Maybe, just maybe Brian took drugs in part to cope with dealing with relatives (including, but also other than his dad) who dealt in guilt trips and psychological warfare.

I want to know why Mike thinks that Brian chose Tony Asher to write Pet Sounds, instead of sticking with Mike. Oh, I know: because all of the hipster douchebags coerced him to. It could never because Brian got tired of working with someone with a sh*tty attitude.

THANK you. And you know what? People would respect him more if he took responsibility for his mistakes instead of always blaming others. It is his fault that the Beach Boys are  not looked at by the general public the way they should be. We should be able to turn on classic rock radio and hear Marcella or Sail On Sailor, in between ELO and the Doobie Brothers. But no, we had Full House appearances. We had lame ass guest appearances on record.  We had them doing sh*t like "Duke of Earl" live. Perfect opportunity comes along to reclaim their legacy with the C50. Tour was freaking awesome. TWGMTR was their best album in many, many years. Then what happens? Mike decides he wants to have a bigger piece of a smaller pie, Sea World is more attractive than Wembley, oh let's go back to how it was before. And here we are today.  Don't give me any crap about the 'set end date' and the bullshit about 'No More Wilsons' emails. From 'someone who should know' I can tell you that it's a load of crap. It's all about money, and Mike trying to keep the brand name the way he sees fit, which is find and dandy...but again the legacy is being pissed on and set ablaze. The book promo video is more of him erasing the band's contributions as much as possible and maximizing his own, to the brand's detriment. Of course, then the argument can be made that Brian could try to take what's rightfully his and would do the brand far more justice. That is true, but...at this point it is too late. The "Beach Boys" name is once again an albatross and he's better than that. No amount of spin from Mike's book, incredibly slanted promo videos, or nudge-nudge-wink-wink interviews by Ricky Gervais wanna-bes could ever change that.

[filledeplage]

Hey Jude - Melcher (talented as he was) - was not a BB.  Even if he was around during Pet Sounds.  There was no substitute for Brian and his regret was clear on the Endless Harmony DVD.  

Terry Melcher had a bigger hand in SIP than any individual other than Mike. Doesn't matter whether he was an actual BB or not. I would never argue, for instance, that Joe Thomas wasn't a prominent player in TWGMTR. Much like Melcher, he co-wrote most of the tracks and was involved in the production side of things as well.

I also think you're overstating Brian's "regret" on the EH DVD. His comments were specifically about "Kokomo"; SIP isn't even mentioned in the documentary and the circumstances regarding his non-appearance on SIP are *not* necessarily the same as those for "Kokomo." Also, my own personal interpretation of his very brief comment on that one was that he was bummed, and that's about it. I don't think he loses sleep over it.

Kokomo was the biggest seller since GV.  That was the "era" of Kokomo.  SIP was important enough as a song performed live to be included in MIC.  I think that speaks for itself.

I don't believe conflating "Kokomo" and SIP is appropriate when referencing Brian's statement in EH (made *specifically* about "Kokomo" only) or Brian's reasons for non-participation.

As far as track selection on MIC, a lot of different factors go into that. I wouldn't pretend to assume the precise reason for inclusion, or whether compilers thought it was an "important" song. I don't like to make those assumptions, because it then tends to imply they find other songs left off as less important. I don't think, for instance, that "SIP" needed to be on the set any more than "Still Cruisin'" as a random example.

Hey Jude - Kokomo and SIP are from the same era or body of work from late 80's early 90's. Conflating?  SIP is kick-ass live, as are Carl's vocals.  (My opinion.)

Still Cruisin' still had foisted on them, with Landy's forcefullness, "In My Car" (wife from Baywatch) or Make it Big from Troop Beverly Hills.  Same basic era.  

Found a quote on wiki..."Mike Love said, 'The theme of that album was to have been songs that have been in movies.  It was basically a repackage. But then it got watered down with politics, meaning Brian's Dr. Landy forcing a song called "In My Car,"  whch was never in a movie..."  

Did not know that Still Cruisin'  went gold in the US (and Austria) and gave them the best showing since 1976."  From Album Sales Records. (I am not familiar with this source.)  

Let's set the record straight on that, and yes I have looked at that era extensively and posted here about it.

The album that became Still Cruisin' was supposed to have been a new Beach Boys album to capitalize on the success and renewed exposure from Kokomo and Cocktail. There are quotes from Capitol execs who were banking on the talent in the band to come up with strong original material to fill an album, and gave them a record deal for new singles that had conditions based on the success of what they hoped would be follow ups to Kokomo.

Despite having a Grammy award winning songwriter in Bruce, and Mike, Carl, and Al as songwriters within the group, the band could not come up with a solid album of new material. Capitol still needed something to put Kokomo on under their own label to drive sales and make bank, as Kokomo came out on a soundtrack and under a one-off release under another label when the band literally did not have a label deal.

Despite articles and reports that had the band saying they wanted to make new music, they wanted to get on the charts, they didn't want to be a traveling oldies revue but instead focus on cutting new records...they simply did not or could not deliver.

Thus, Still Cruisin became more of a catch-all compilation rather than a solid album of new Beach Boys music, yet it sold exactly as Capitol probably wanted because fans could buy a "Beach Boys" album to get the song Kokomo, rather than having to buy the Cocktail soundtrack to have the song.

And since there was no follow-up of strong or successful original material as Capitol had put in their deal to the BB's, the label passed on releasing what did become their next album, SIP, and that had to be shopped to a lesser label because Capitol passed on the deal.

That's the brass tacks of the Still Cruisin album being a comp rather than a new album. For more info, search my posts in the archives here for even more detail. The band did not deliver when the market was hot for them to release a follow-up to a #1 single despite having four songwriters in the group and access to the same team that produced Kokomo.

And, yet, it is always noted that it (SIP) not Still Cruisin' was a Brian-less album while he was in the vise-grip of Landy.  I don't want to mix the two up.

Still Cruisin with sales did well with sales and got a lot of airplay on the radio alongside the ones used in the movies.

As for Still Cruisin'  - I do look at it as a semi-compilation with the oldies - still used in films as many still are.  Yes, Kokomo was on it and was a huge hit.  And saved people from buying that sound track as well as Troop Beverly Hills which was also huge with Make it Big. Or I Get Around from Robin Williams' Good Morning Vietnam.

Let's not blame individual people for not being Brian Wilson; no matter how talented they are in their own right.  They are not Brian.  They likely could never look at a song in the same way.  

[HeyJude]

Let's not blame individual people for not being Brian Wilson;

Who is doing that?

Saying Mike and Terry Melcher put out a sub-par album is a criticism of *them*, not a criticism of who they're not.

Saying someone "isn't Brian Wilson", especially members of the BBs, does a disservice to them. There was enough non-Brian material in the BRI vaults in 1992 that they could have just pulled 10 or 12 outtakes with no Brian input from the 80s and put together a better album than SIP.

SIP was a ill-conceived choice when there were other options at their disposal. The same thing happened with "Stars and Stripes" versus working on the Andy Paley material.

[filledeplage]

Let's not blame individual people for not being Brian Wilson;

Who is doing that?

Saying Mike and Terry Melcher put out a sub-par album is a criticism of *them*, not a criticism of who they're not.

Saying someone "isn't Brian Wilson", especially members of the BBs, does a disservice to them. There was enough non-Brian material in the BRI vaults in 1992 that they could have just pulled 10 or 12 outtakes with no Brian input from the 80s and put together a better album than SIP.

SIP was a ill-conceived choice when there were other options at their disposal. The same thing happened with "Stars and Stripes" versus working on the Andy Paley material.

Whether it was ill-conceived or not, it was an attempt to stay in the market.  They could not work with Brian because he was controlled by Landy.  Don't contort what I said.  Melcher did great work but was not Brian.  No it does not do a disservice.  It is like saying someone who is writing for The Beatles is not Lennon or McCartney. It is ridiculous.

[HeyJude]

Let's not blame individual people for not being Brian Wilson;

Who is doing that?

Saying Mike and Terry Melcher put out a sub-par album is a criticism of *them*, not a criticism of who they're not.

Saying someone "isn't Brian Wilson", especially members of the BBs, does a disservice to them. There was enough non-Brian material in the BRI vaults in 1992 that they could have just pulled 10 or 12 outtakes with no Brian input from the 80s and put together a better album than SIP.

SIP was a ill-conceived choice when there were other options at their disposal. The same thing happened with "Stars and Stripes" versus working on the Andy Paley material.

Whether it was ill-conceived or not, it was an attempt to stay in the market.  They could not work with Brian because he was controlled by Landy.  Don't contort what I said.  Melcher did great work but was not Brian.  No it does not do a disservice.  It is like saying someone who is writing for The Beatles is not Lennon or McCartney. It is ridiculous.

I guess I'll bite and point out that you're contorting what I said, not the other way around.

Melcher may have done great work on other projects; SIP is not one of his shining moments. That has nothing to do with him "not being Brian" anymore than it does with him "not being Mozart."

Your Beatles comparison doesn't apply to anything I said, and doesn't make any sense to me regardless. If Ringo wrote some sucky songs, as he himself admits he did (his oft-cited story of re-writing Jerry Lee Lewis songs and everybody cracking up), they would suck because they suck, not because he's not Lennon or McCartney.

Back to the Landy point, Brian's non-appearance on SIP was caused by MORE than just the Landy factor, as I outlined in detail in a previous post. The timelines don't match up. The lingering effects of Landy were certainly a factor, but there were others.

[filledeplage]

Let's not blame individual people for not being Brian Wilson;

Who is doing that?

Saying Mike and Terry Melcher put out a sub-par album is a criticism of *them*, not a criticism of who they're not.

Saying someone "isn't Brian Wilson", especially members of the BBs, does a disservice to them. There was enough non-Brian material in the BRI vaults in 1992 that they could have just pulled 10 or 12 outtakes with no Brian input from the 80s and put together a better album than SIP.

SIP was a ill-conceived choice when there were other options at their disposal. The same thing happened with "Stars and Stripes" versus working on the Andy Paley material.

Whether it was ill-conceived or not, it was an attempt to stay in the market.  They could not work with Brian because he was controlled by Landy.  Don't contort what I said.  Melcher did great work but was not Brian.  No it does not do a disservice.  It is like saying someone who is writing for The Beatles is not Lennon or McCartney. It is ridiculous.

I guess I'll bite and point out that you're contorting what I said, not the other way around.

Melcher may have done great work on other projects; SIP is not one of his shining moments. That has nothing to do with him "not being Brian" anymore than it does with him "not being Mozart."

Your Beatles comparison doesn't apply to anything I said, and doesn't make any sense to me regardless. If Ringo wrote some sucky songs, as he himself admits he did (his oft-cited story of re-writing Jerry Lee Lewis songs and everybody cracking up), they would suck because they suck, not because he's not Lennon or McCartney.

Back to the Landy point, Brian's non-appearance on SIP was caused by MORE than just the Landy factor, as I outlined in detail in a previous post. The timelines don't match up. The lingering effects of Landy were certainly a factor, but there were others.

We can agree to disagree.  It was my perception of the era, having lived through it.  I saw Brian for the first time in 1987, with Landy in the wings so I am in tune with that era.

There is likely overlap with this era as to actual dates.  But, I think it is a valid analogy.  Melcher (however close to the band he was and gifted he was) was not a BB.  He was not Brian Wilson. Brian Wilson makes BB albums.  Brian looks through a different lens that is unique to that band.  Unique is unique.  And not unlike the Beatles who have a unique sound, themselves. The 30th album.  The first 29 had Brian.  Just sayin'.   

Again, we can agree to disagree.