gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
677860 Posts in 27371 Topics by 4046 Members - Latest Member: reecemorgan December 09, 2022, 07:19:17 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The Beach Boys and Youtube Copyright Infringement  (Read 10878 times)
jackjachman
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 46


View Profile
« on: August 15, 2016, 09:41:58 AM »

As some posters here have noticed, the last week or so has seen the swift deletion of the three most active Beach Boys Youtube channels offering unreleased material; Tim K (The_Beach), Scott G (jiggy22), and my own: jacksdeos. A terrible occasion for listening if there ever was one. All three of us had our own followings that crossed over with each other, and it was always nice to see three different styles we each had of releasing such fantastic music to you guys. Sorry to anyone who was a fan and can no longer take a load off and listen to what we put out and the work we put in to improving it along the way.

From what I gather, we all got the same notifications: a notice of copyright infringement on behalf of Brother Records. I was completely incensed at first, understandably, and all the frenzied thoughts in my head turned to the same question I've been asking for a long time now: why not EMBRACE this stuff being on the largest hub of music in the world, Youtube? Not even as the effective 21st century marketing tool and legacy reappraisal service that it is (done entirely for free by fans), but why not actually start monetizing the uploads of songs not yet released in an age where the same songs can just as easily be found for download on a forum somewhere with a quick google search? Having your music be on Youtube gives it almost endless reach across the entire world, and to shun it's spread so decisively is definitely a bummer of a major degree.

Something that Scott pointed out as well was that the videos that were getting taken down seemed to pertain to the more famous bootleg material that is STILL so ripe for offical release, such as the Adult/Child and Sweet Insanity albums along with the Cocaine Sessions bootleg. That one in particular was turning into the most popular on my channel, and it truly saddens me that the average listener can no longer hear some of the more haunting and memorable parts of that bootleg, along with the excellent sounding version of the Paley Sessions album I found online. This brings up the question of "does this mean that the music is intended to be released by the record company?", which is an exciting one, but definitely a possibility I won't hold my breath for. There still remains an overabundance of quality, sometimes game-changing material (see: Proposed Brother Bonus Tracks, Sea of Tunes Rarities, Unsurpassed Masters series) that has not officially seen the light of day in the past five decades of bootlegging, so if it hasn't been released in all the time, then why would they do it now? Again, these can be found as downloads without a whole lot of difficulty, but let's be frank, nothing beats the ease and accessibility of Youtube, one of the most popular and necessary places in the entirety of the internet.

I'll swiftly step down from this soap box I found here and instead share some love to Tim K and Scott G for doing the extremely important work of fanning the flames of all of our collective Beach Boys love with exciting and provoking content that made us hear a truly special band in an entirely different light. I think that's beautiful work, and I sure as hell appreciated it.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 10:34:21 AM by jackjachman » Logged
jackjachman
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 46


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2016, 10:30:17 AM »

accidentally quoted my own post, it's been awhile since I've been message boarding.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 10:33:08 AM by jackjachman » Logged
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 8407



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2016, 10:53:19 AM »

Tim K. , Scott G, and jackdeos are fan's fans. Thanks for putting in the time and effort for making BBs fandom a better place with all those great unreleased songs on youtube! Cool

Release this stuff dammit!
Logged

And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
The_Beach
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 430


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2016, 11:53:54 AM »

RIP to our three Youtube channel's! I dont know why the Brother Records would want to take down the rare music if they dont plan on releasing it all in the near future! I uploaded the rare stuff to help get new beach boy fans or to get old ones back. I was out of the Beach Boys for a long time until I started collecting some of the rare music! I dot know about you guys but it does get tiring of listening to the same old songs over and over with a lack of new Beach Boys material! in over two decades we only got one new album of TWGMTR.

I Guess Brother Records isn't looking to expand to new or regain more Beach Boys fanatics that are tired of listening to the same songs! If they have unreleased material they might as well release it to gain some money and fans instead of keeping in the vaults fade away forever!!

I just hope people that wanted are music got it off youtube before it was too late! Unfortunately no new fans will get to hear it.  Angry
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 11:55:52 AM by The_Beach » Logged
terrei
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 139


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2016, 12:31:40 PM »

Brother Records can't monetize the videos because the recordings of those songs have never been published. For that same reason, they shouldn't be able to DMCA most of them. But they did anyway.
Logged
DonnyL
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1986



View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2016, 12:53:36 PM »

I always hope that this type of activity means that the group may be considering releasing more material in the near future.

However, I would like to point out something that almost never gets mentioned in these types of threads:

I think there is a very real possibility that the Beach Boys themselves don’t like unauthorized material floating around out there. They generally have been fairly involved in what gets released and what doesn’t (The “Rarities” album from 1983 was in fact removed due to the group threatening legal action because they felt the material was substandard).

The argument of “Hey, people want this and there’s money to be made, they just need to release them!” is what we usually hear, but I think we often dismiss the idea that there are valid artistic reasons (which we may or may not agree with) that some of these tracks will never see the light of day.

Don’t get me wrong, if it were up to me Adult Child (with the original mixes) and the Paley Sessions would be released in deluxe vinyl sets immediately. And it’s a crime that “Carry Me Home” is still in the can. But these are not our works, and these decisions are not ours.
Logged

bringahorseinhere?
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1220



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2016, 01:40:14 PM »

this is sad news. I frequently visited those channels just to hear the stuff I don't have bought or d/l'd elsewhere.
it was great to hear the new stuff you don't find anywhere else.  In hindsight, I would have ripped the audio.
let's hope Brother are putting this into a perspective soon that is officially made to us, but I doubt we'll see it.
Logged
jiggy22
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 448



View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2016, 04:19:53 PM »

I always hope that this type of activity means that the group may be considering releasing more material in the near future.

However, I would like to point out something that almost never gets mentioned in these types of threads:

I think there is a very real possibility that the Beach Boys themselves don’t like unauthorized material floating around out there. They generally have been fairly involved in what gets released and what doesn’t (The “Rarities” album from 1983 was in fact removed due to the group threatening legal action because they felt the material was substandard).

The argument of “Hey, people want this and there’s money to be made, they just need to release them!” is what we usually hear, but I think we often dismiss the idea that there are valid artistic reasons (which we may or may not agree with) that some of these tracks will never see the light of day.

Don’t get me wrong, if it were up to me Adult Child (with the original mixes) and the Paley Sessions would be released in deluxe vinyl sets immediately. And it’s a crime that “Carry Me Home” is still in the can. But these are not our works, and these decisions are not ours.


That's a great point you make here. Most of the time, there's a reason why some of these tracks have never been officially released ("Battle Hymn of the Republic", "Wrinkles", "At the Hop", etc). Some of it just isn't good! But of course there are tons and tons of other tracks that 100% deserve official releases. But to be fair, I believe it was Bruce who admitted that he was a fan of the Rarities album. Sometimes I believe that Brother Records and Capitol don't want to release this material because it would be extremely hard to market to anyone other than the harcore fans; the "one-percenters". Do I dare say that bootleggers, despite their actions clearly being illegal, are somewhat of the "unsung heroes" of the groups' hardcore fans? Think of how much less material we would have if they didn't go against the groups' wishes and unofficially release their material! This may be delving into a completely different conversation, and I am definitely not condoning the actions taken by bootleggers, but I've just been pretty thankful that there have been so many people willing to share what's out there, official or not. Not just bootleggers, but fan-mixers such as Jack, Tim, and myself.
Logged

Do happy happy happy Mission Pak singing sound!

My blog, where I post my original Beach Boys mixes and whatnot:
http://www.jiggy22.blogspot.com
GoofyJeff
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 380



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2016, 04:29:49 PM »

Maybe if the Beach Boys Central website had launched A FULL DECADE AGO like Alan Boyd had intended, we'd be able to purchase these tracks legitimately and not have to worry about DMCA notices on YouTube.
Logged

"Because of the attitude of a few mental dinosaurs intent on exploiting our initial success, Brian's huge talent has never been fully appreciated in America and the potential of the group has been stifled.... If the Beatles had suffered this kind of misrepresentation, they would have never got past singing 'Please Please Me' and 'I Wanna Hold Your Hand' and leaping around in Beatle suits."
-Dennis Wilson, 1970
Kid Presentable
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 287


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2016, 05:11:31 PM »

It helps me to just consider the perspective of if I were the people that made that music... with no caveats or questions asked, I would want full control over whether something I created will be made public or stay private.  I feel bad about listening to the Cocaine Sessions for those reasons.  It feels like spying on an uninhibited private moment, that surely none of them want to be made public. 

With that being said I am going to miss these alternate albums greatly, they really got me thinking differently about the BBs and I hope that as much unreleased stuff as possible sees a legitimate public light of day.  Thank you to jack, tim, and scott. 
Logged
DonnyL
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1986



View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2016, 05:19:33 PM »

I always hope that this type of activity means that the group may be considering releasing more material in the near future.

However, I would like to point out something that almost never gets mentioned in these types of threads:

I think there is a very real possibility that the Beach Boys themselves don’t like unauthorized material floating around out there. They generally have been fairly involved in what gets released and what doesn’t (The “Rarities” album from 1983 was in fact removed due to the group threatening legal action because they felt the material was substandard).

The argument of “Hey, people want this and there’s money to be made, they just need to release them!” is what we usually hear, but I think we often dismiss the idea that there are valid artistic reasons (which we may or may not agree with) that some of these tracks will never see the light of day.

Don’t get me wrong, if it were up to me Adult Child (with the original mixes) and the Paley Sessions would be released in deluxe vinyl sets immediately. And it’s a crime that “Carry Me Home” is still in the can. But these are not our works, and these decisions are not ours.


That's a great point you make here. Most of the time, there's a reason why some of these tracks have never been officially released ("Battle Hymn of the Republic", "Wrinkles", "At the Hop", etc). Some of it just isn't good! But of course there are tons and tons of other tracks that 100% deserve official releases. But to be fair, I believe it was Bruce who admitted that he was a fan of the Rarities album. Sometimes I believe that Brother Records and Capitol don't want to release this material because it would be extremely hard to market to anyone other than the harcore fans; the "one-percenters". Do I dare say that bootleggers, despite their actions clearly being illegal, are somewhat of the "unsung heroes" of the groups' hardcore fans? Think of how much less material we would have if they didn't go against the groups' wishes and unofficially release their material! This may be delving into a completely different conversation, and I am definitely not condoning the actions taken by bootleggers, but I've just been pretty thankful that there have been so many people willing to share what's out there, official or not. Not just bootleggers, but fan-mixers such as Jack, Tim, and myself.

I think there are elements in the group who are more commercial-minded (Mike of course ... possibly Brian to some extent also) and I'm sure decisions are made based on how they affect the group's "Brand", etc. ... but there's evidence of group members making decisions to keep certain tracks off of various releases, etc.

I'm inclined the assume the "strictly business" management side of BRI would be interested in releasing any product that would generate a decent profit. But archival projects also take time and money, so they may very well have determined (correctly or incorrectly) that the market is too small for such releases. I'd personally say there's a decent untapped market for "hip" Beach Boys releases that could be very profitable if marketed appropriately. And I'm not talking about another Pet Sounds box with a "newly discovered" live take of "Sloop John B" to keep us hardcore types interested.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 05:23:42 PM by DonnyL » Logged

mikeddonn
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 976


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2016, 05:20:50 PM »

If it had not have been for the SMiLE bootlegs the legend would never have become what it did.  It converted a lot of people to the group and kept them marketable when archival releases came out.  A fact the record company actually celebrated at the time of the SMiLE Sessions release in 2011, when they asked people to post their bootlegs on the Facebook page!
Logged
Robbie Mac
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 848


Carl Wilson is not amused.


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2016, 05:25:52 PM »

That is sad to hear, guys. I enjoyed having easy access to that stuff. I'm sorry to hear that BRI decided to lay down the law (with no intention of actually releasing any of the stuff they complained about). Generally, the reason why copyright holders do this is maintain their "moral higher ground" on their material.
Logged

The world could come together as one
If everybody under the sun
Adds some 🎼 to your day
DonnyL
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1986



View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2016, 05:26:38 PM »

If it had not have been for the SMiLE bootlegs the legend would never have become what it did.  It converted a lot of people to the group and kept them marketable when archival releases came out.  A fact the record company actually celebrated at the time of the SMiLE Sessions release in 2011, when they asked people to post their bootlegs on the Facebook page!

I disagree with that. In fact, when I first heard SMILE (in 1992, via a cassette dub given to me in-person by a private individual ... ha pre-internet days), I was kind of disappointed after reading so much about it. I mean, it was magical and all, but hearing the endless "Heroes and Villains"/"Bicycle Rider" takes and stuff like "Holidays" didn't quite live up to the hype in my 13-year old mind.

Certainly the myth was large and meaningful long before the bootlegs ... through books, etc.
Logged

♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
Pissing off drunks since 1978
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11803


🍦🍦 Pet Demon for Sale - $5 or best offer ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2016, 08:19:48 PM »

I'm of two minds...as an artist myself, I can understand why bootlegs are frowned up. However, if nobody is profiting off of it, then what's the issue? Me personally, I'd be willing to pay to hear unreleased stuff. I'm an obsessive.  I want to hear everything that exists.

And yes, Beach Boys Central should've went live, and would've solved a lot of this...
Logged

“My cape is at the dry cleaners,” he explained.

I’m writing a book of online BB fandom. It’s called “Never Trust Anyone Who Spends More Time Reading Signatures Than Bathing”.  It’s sure to sell a million copies in January!

How’s that view from the nosebleed seats?
John Malone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 89



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2016, 08:30:24 PM »

Legal disputes over dissemination of material (such as sports broadcast rights, internet sharing of files that otherwise wouldn't be, rights to television syndication, etc.) almost always result in fans/listeners being denied.

It seems sometimes that making nothing available can be more advantageous than advancing a brand's popularity.

Sad.
Logged
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
Pissing off drunks since 1978
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11803


🍦🍦 Pet Demon for Sale - $5 or best offer ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2016, 08:37:49 PM »

Quote
Legal disputes over dissemination of material (such as sports broadcast rights, internet sharing of files that otherwise wouldn't be, rights to television syndication, etc.) almost always result in fans/listeners being denied. [/quote[

Yeah, and that bothers me. At the end of the day, it is about the fans, because without them, none of us would have careers (and in my case, I use that term VERY loosely).

With my band's previous release, we sold extremely little. SO...everyone who did purchase it got a download with a bunch of extra songs/outtakes for free.
Logged

“My cape is at the dry cleaners,” he explained.

I’m writing a book of online BB fandom. It’s called “Never Trust Anyone Who Spends More Time Reading Signatures Than Bathing”.  It’s sure to sell a million copies in January!

How’s that view from the nosebleed seats?
tpesky
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1028


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2016, 09:02:36 PM »

The BB blow it in another way by not capitalizing on releasing digital material including live concerts.  It's a limited market  for the general public but BB fans would seek it out and buy it and BRI could make some money.  But...they wouldn't be the BB if they didn't blow these types of things.
Logged
halblaineisgood
Guest
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2016, 10:13:18 PM »

Now we can all watch monetized beach boy content and Brother Records will be saved!
Logged
bringahorseinhere?
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1220



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2016, 11:02:48 PM »

long live the bootleg!  this is why we seek to alternate means to get what we want.
in the end, who wins? it sure ain't no record company.  they have brought all of this
on themselves in the past and they still don't learn.
Logged
Da Doo Ron Ron
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2016, 11:13:22 PM »

Just make another channel and reupload the videos.
Logged
bb4ever
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 62


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2016, 06:11:23 AM »

Do the Beach Boys still own Brother Records?   Who runs it?

Logged
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9817



View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2016, 07:01:26 AM »

Do the Beach Boys still own Brother Records?   Who runs it?



"Brother Records" isn't really a "record label" anymore, and hasn't been for decades. It's basically the Beach Boys' equivalent of the Beatles' Apple Corps. "Brother Records Inc" (or BRI as we often call it for the sake of brevity) is basically the holding company for the Beach Boys, and it is a privately held company with Brian, Al, Mike, and Carl's estate as the shareholders. While it uses the name of their old record label, it's essentially "Beach Boys Inc."

All I will add to this is that any suggestion that these recent copyright claims might mean the opening of the floodgates of the archives is imminent is probably false. BRI has been submitting copyright claims on YouTube, eBay, and probably other sites as well, for *years* now. I think they just simply don't police the stuff 24/7, and when they do it's clear that someone has figuratively (or literally) woken up from a nap and decided to start submitting claims.

Must be an awesome job; there's some guy (or gal) whose job it is to just type "Beach Boys" into various search engines at arbitrary intervals and submit copyright claims.

On top of all of the other complaints, which are obviously of varying moral/ethical/practical validity, it's also a bummer because sometimes legitimately non-infringing stuff gets swept up in these mass copyright claims. Stuff not owned by the copyright holder gets claimed. Stuff that actually is "fair use" gets claimed, etc. It's a never-ending fight on YouTube.

Someone needs to talk to BRI and tell them how claiming every little video and audio snippet on YouTube worked out for Prince. When he died, there were easily thousands and thousands of younger people who had little or no clue about most of his work (and certainly at least knew much less of him than they should have), because there was and is NOTHING of his on YouTube in terms of his main body of studio work. It was notoriously getting pulled *very quickly* whenever it appeared. I'm not even a Prince fan and I noticed this; you could never even go take a quick listen to "Raspberry Beret" or whatever. He had someone (or several people) seemingly employed *full time* simply to catch stuff on YouTube.

This YouTube stuff is all ass backwards anyway. Right now, there are OODLES of commercially-released Beach Boys tracks and albums on YouTube that can be listened to and downloaded (using the million YouTube downloader websites). You can literally use YouTube as a *completely* free version of Spotify/Pandora, only with the option of also downloading the stuff too. Why isn't BRI pulling *that* stuff down? THAT'S the stuff that's literally eating into their profits. Random people are posting *hundreds* and *thousands* of Beach Boys tracks simply ripped from commercial BB CDs (or even the recent digital-only copyright extension releases) on YouTube, and in at least *some* of those cases, they are *monetizing* those clips and actually making money off of them.

There are almost surely more random people on YouTube making money off of famous, well-known Beach Boys tracks than anyone posting murky "Cocaine Sessions" snippets or weird "Adult Child" tracks.

Look at this YouTube link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QCZ_bv9aLc

I may be wrong, but I don't think the YouTube user "MorseMoose79" is an authorized Beach Boys/Brother Records distributor. But this clip of "Don't Worry Baby" has nearly TEN MILLION views and was uploaded nearly TEN YEARS AGO. Why is *that* allowed? If it's monetized (I got a video ad in front of it when I clicked on it, so I'm guessing it is monetized), then "MorseMoose79" presumably has made some coin off nearly ten million views.
Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
Joel Goldenberg
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 578



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2016, 07:45:25 AM »

Now that the MIU California Feelin' reimagined video has been deleted, I would like someone to tell me the name of the song with the Carl lead vocal that preceded My Diane. It's great and should have been officially released.

Update: Found it! It's It Could Be Anything AKA Where We Are
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 07:49:03 AM by Joel Goldenberg » Logged
Magic Transistor Radio
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2970


Bill Cooper Mystery Babylon


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2016, 07:48:51 AM »

I was a big fan of those videos like anyone else, but may I give a more optimistic theory! I recall 5 years ago a lot of Smile material is was taken down. Shortly after the Smile Sessions box set was released! Also, I can name the Good Vibrations box set, Endless Harmony cd, Hawthorne cd, and Made In California and several others over the years with previously unreleased material! So could it be that they do intend to release more stuff but they like to spread them out over time?
Logged

"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
gfx
Pages: [1] 2 3 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.182 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!