Holland - end of an era?

[Banana]

I was listening to Holland today...and thinking it was the end of an era. To me, it seemed like the last time the band actually worked to make an artistic statement. There was a certain level of care, quality, and consideration in their post-Pet Sounds releases. They sounded like they were still reaching for acceptance as a musically progressive band.

Then Endless Summer hit...and it suddenly became okay to "give up" and be happy with trying to recapture nostalgia. I know maybe I'm simplifying things...but that is kind of how it feels.

I think you can see it in their history. You can see it in the growing frustration of Carl and especially Dennis when product like 15 Big Ones was released.

Brian was still capable of creating some truly interesting music...but I don't think he was doing it with the intention of creating something commercial.

I just feel that after Holland the band stopped operating as a true musical unit and everything kind of splintered.

[KDS]

I agree 110%. 

For my money, Holland is the last great Beach Boys album, and the end of an era that spanned 1962-1973 when The Beach Boys were putting out quality record after quality record.

After Endless Summer, the focus went on turning the live set into a greatest hits / nostalgia trip, and the studio albums became a bit of an afterthought. 

They still put out a lot of good songs from 1976-2012, but the albums weren't nearly as good.  Even the good ones (ie. MIU, TWGMTR) relied a bit on nostalgia. 

[Bill M]

Absolutely.

[JK]

My "last great BB album" has shifted in the past few years from Pet Sounds to Surf's Up to Holland.

It will never extend to Love You (which I now love, thanks to this board) because of the irresolvable mess that is 15 Big Ones.

So yes----Holland is the end of an era for me too. 

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Unless you count In Concert, but as far as studio albums go, Holland absolutely!

[Tony S]

Absolutely agree...the end of an era indeed.

[MikestheGreatest!!]

Holland was a good album.  Probably the end of their very brief "FM" period.

However, I liked 15 Big Ones and Love You.  They both had that carnival, roller rink in the sky sound (as originally noted in the 15 B.O. liner notes), actually very idiosyncratic albums. 

Don't concur with the thought they gave up after Holland.  I believe they were under considerable pressure from Warners to deliver B.W. produced product.  Also, apparently other group members were not able to come up with much suitable "Beach Boys style" material post-Holland, or else were more interested in their solo careers (Carl, Dennis).  As everyone knows, an attempt to start a studio album post-Holland at Caribou in CO was a failed effort.

No doubt creative energies were sapped by the extensive touring also in the wake of the Capitol compilations outstanding sales numbers.

They surely were interested in reaping the financial benefits of that period's touring.

One problem is they also just plain suffered a lack of creative cohesion post-Holland.  It was kind of hard for them to come up with a cohesive commercial sound.  Albums had some gems here and there, but often did not hang together stylistically due to the clash in the writer's styles.  Also, their formulaic efforts started sounding dated.  I remember the RS review saying that they sounded like a very good wax museum version of their old selves or something to that effect.

I honestly though do believe they always were trying even through SIP to make good music.

I will admit though Stars and Stripes was just a lame idea, a last gasp of a once great group.  But heck, all things come to an end.  Even the Beatles and Elvis.

[Lee Marshall]

'Holland' was [and remains] their LAST great album until 'That's Why The Man in the Sky Made the Radio'.  Other than that we only had [and continue to have] some really, truly well done solo lps worth noting.  After 'Holland' they would go for almost 40 years releasing SOME very good songs on a LOT of very iffy 'group' studio albums.

The only exception to all of this?  'The Beach Boys in Concert' released at the tail-end of 1973.  That 2-record live set was and is the real cap on the end of that era.  After that it would slowly...ever-so-slowly...fall to pieces.  Odd to think that the man who magically and thankfully survived falling apart personally was the one who would put it back together not only for himself but in doing so have his great intentions and innovative ideas rub off on several of the others as well...particularly after their collective reunion in 2012.  Heck!!!  Even Mike's 'version' would get better sounding...as a result...thanks to Scott

Holland!!!!   T H O S E  were the days.

[CenturyDeprived]

One could say that post-Holland, the band became sellouts. While I love many, many tracks post-Holland, including many guilty pleasures that a large swath of fans would scoff at... I feel safe to say that with isolated exceptions (like Love You - which at least was a radical attempt to do something new and modern, yet brilliant, in a warped kind of way)... the band largely just stopped actively pushing themselves to their limits in terms of progressive art.

Do I get why they did it? Yeah, the winning voting block got desperate to keep up their lifestyles, and felt that "this is what the public wants from us", and  - outside of rare exceptions - weren't willing to take chances with dedicating the brand name - like the rare live deep cut - to doing anything but rehashing their old hits *without the additional move of breaking new creative ground*, the way Brian did back in the day.

When Brian felt forced to rehash the same stale lyrical ideas/concepts back in the early days, at least he snuck in all sorts of super futuristic and innovative techniques into what would otherwise be lame retreads (like Girls on the Beach building new ideas from a Surfer Girl origin)... and lame retreads sans innovation is a perfectly apt description of the lion's share of the post-Holland material (ie. Kona Coast's laaaaame Hawaii ripoff... I mean "nod" - blech).

No wonder Denny had to break out of the BB noose to do his breathtaking 1977 work of art, POB, which he could never have done in the confines of the BB name at that point. And no wonder why Mike had to break out of the BB noose to do his breathtaking 1981 work of... um, nevermind.

[Bicyclerider]

Love You was the last great BB album IMO - 15 Big Ones was a dip in quality but then so was Carl and the Passions preceding Holland.  So Love You was the end of an era - an era of progressive new music being created by Brian and the Beach Boys.  MIU starts a nostalgia/retread of the Bech Boys signature sounds and themes that continued all the way through TWGMTR.

[bluesno1fann]

While I do enjoy many of their post-Holland albums (some are genuinely good such as Love You and L.A. Light, and others are a guilty pleasure such as the unfairly maligned 85 album), I don't think many people could deny that Holland was the band's last classic album. Their swan song before the nostalgia train consumed them

[thorgil]

Love You, rather than Holland, was the end of an era. The last artistic statement by Brian released under the group name (it would have been Adult Child, if released*). In TWGMTR, only the ending "suite" is an artistic statement, though ranking among Brian's greatest, imho.

* Or maybe not? Would a released Adult Child have been further followed up? Would we have more orchestral gems such as "It's Over Now" and "Still I Dream of It"?

[KDS]

Don't concur with the thought they gave up after Holland. 

I definitely don't think The Beach Boys gave up after Holland.  I think they really tried to give it a go with Brian at the helm in 1976.  IMO, if you take the good stuff from 15BO and Love You, you'd have a really good album. 

All the albums that followed had good material, even SIP. 

[halblaineisgood]

That's Why God Made The Radio is their last great album .

Not really  great. But if Holland's great, then I'm gonna throw it in there . TWGMTR in the mix as a great one. Just as pseudo-profound and contrived.

The autotone of Joe Thomas is the ecological concerns of Jack Riely.

[KDS]

That's Why God Made The Radio is their last great album .

Not really  great. But if Holland's great, then I'm gonna throw it in there . TWGMTR in the mix as a great one. Just as pseudo-profound and contrived.

The autotone of Joe Thomas is the ecological concerns of Jack Riely.

I think TWGMTR came very close to being great.  I think the album is bookended by great songs, but there's some average ones in the middle.   

[Cool Cool Water]

In my opinion I would say 'Love You' was the end of an era-album for the artistic statement from Brian and the input from the rest of the band, mainly Dennis blossoming through actually.

[Rocky Raccoon]

In my opinion I would say 'Love You' was the end of an era-album for the artistic statement from Brian and the input from the rest of the band, mainly Dennis blossoming through actually.

I agree.  That was the last one where they really sounded like a true band.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

It's the album in high school that got me seriously into the band. All the guys firing on all cylinders.

[tpesky]

Respectfully disagree about Love You being a full band record. Mike and Al are missing in too many places for me to feel that way. It's  a lot of Brian, Dennis, and Carl.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Respectfully disagree about Love You being a full band record. Mike and Al are missing in too many places for me to feel that way. It's  a lot of Brian, Dennis, and Carl.

Do you mean missing as in writing or performing or both? I see that myKe is certainly well represented on the album sleeve which is more than enough for me and Al sings lead on hdth.

[Summertime Blooz]

I would say Holland is the end of the era where they were trying (trying too hard maybe?), boosted by their then current management, to be cool. For me, Surf's Up was really the last truly solid record.  Carl and the Passions is wildly inconsistent and I'm not a big Dennis booster so his contributions don't add much for me. Holland is somewhat better, but nowhere close to great. I appreciate Holland more in retrospect, but for decades the only two songs I really gave a hang about were 'Sail On Sailor' and 'Funky Pretty'. I do like 'Trader' these days. Different opinions right? Please no hard feelings to those that think those two albums are the bees knees.

[Banana]

Respectfully disagree about Love You being a full band record. Mike and Al are missing in too many places for me to feel that way. It's  a lot of Brian, Dennis, and Carl.

I would agree. Love You always seemed like a Brian solo record that was "rescued" by Carl (mainly) either because Brian couldn't/wouldn't finish it...or because of record company pressure. We all know that Carl did a lot of work to flesh out the sound after Brian was finished with it.

Don't get me wrong. I love the album...but it is a Brian album...not a true group album.

My point about Holland was that it seemed like the last time all members were trying to create true artistic statements. You had contributions from Brian, Carl, Dennis, Al, Ricky, Blondie...even Mike.

15 Big One's was (at least in my opinion) a big misstep. They had an audience again...but instead of delivering something good that took advantage of that...they put Brian in charge and proceeded to then fight over the direction they wanted to go.

[filledeplage]

I was listening to Holland today...and thinking it was the end of an era. To me, it seemed like the last time the band actually worked to make an artistic statement. There was a certain level of care, quality, and consideration in their post-Pet Sounds releases. They sounded like they were still reaching for acceptance as a musically progressive band.

Then Endless Summer hit...and it suddenly became okay to "give up" and be happy with trying to recapture nostalgia. I know maybe I'm simplifying things...but that is kind of how it feels.

I think you can see it in their history. You can see it in the growing frustration of Carl and especially Dennis when product like 15 Big Ones was released.

Brian was still capable of creating some truly interesting music...but I don't think he was doing it with the intention of creating something commercial.

I just feel that after Holland the band stopped operating as a true musical unit and everything kind of splintered.

It is probably correct - but the "end of an era?" probably in terms of an album of "consciousness raising" maybe and I think of it as So Tough - CATP part 2,  In Concert, part 3, and one work - a trilogy.  I think it was released towards the end of the Vietnam War era, and even though neither studio album was a commercial success made a sociological statement (or many.) The Concert Album did much better.
 
And, yet the double LP (which I include in this corpus, because it contained a lot of the CATP - Holland cuts) was a commercial success and was not only well received, did go US "gold" and was on the charts for about six months, top spot at #25.  I look at the three as a trilogy because the Concert album includes We Got Love and the live stuff is mixed with the classics in the live context and shows the audience response. 


Sail on Sailor - released as a single in January of 1973 and September of 1975 as a single.
The Trader
Marcella
Leaving This Town
Funky Pretty
We Got Love (the only place I think this is, didn't make the Holland LP)

Agree - that it is probably the end of a snapshot of that era.   

Interesting link with sampler tracks...

http://www.allmusic.com/album/in-concert-mw0000313591

[KDS]

Respectfully disagree about Love You being a full band record. Mike and Al are missing in too many places for me to feel that way. It's  a lot of Brian, Dennis, and Carl.

I would agree. Love You always seemed like a Brian solo record that was "rescued" by Carl (mainly) either because Brian couldn't/wouldn't finish it...or because of record company pressure. We all know that Carl did a lot of work to flesh out the sound after Brian was finished with it.

Don't get me wrong. I love the album...but it is a Brian album...not a true group album.

My point about Holland was that it seemed like the last time all members were trying to create true artistic statements. You had contributions from Brian, Carl, Dennis, Al, Ricky, Blondie...even Mike.

15 Big One's was (at least in my opinion) a big misstep. They had an audience again...but instead of delivering something good that took advantage of that...they put Brian in charge and proceeded to then fight over the direction they wanted to go.

100% agree 15BO was a misstep.  I think the problem was that they tried to follow up Endless Summer (a collection of decade old classics) instead of following up Holland. 

If you listen to The Beach Boys albums from 1962-1973, there seems to be a natural progression there.  But 15 Big Ones is a hard left.

[Banana]

In regards to 15 Big Ones (or 15 Bad Ones as Jon Stebbins once called it)...I think you had Mike (and possibly Al) wanting SOMETHING on the shelves to capitalize on Endless Summer. Brian, who had been put in charge...wanted to make an album of covers and the you had Carl and Dennis pushing for something that would be an artistic move forward.

I think there was enough original material around to put together a really good LP of songs. I would have liked them to put that out...and then they could have done the oldies LP (which I think was the original plan).

Dennis was recording some excellent stuff around the time they were working on 15 Big Ones.

Scott G assembled an alternate LP under Brian's original title of Group Therapy which would have made a really good record. I definitely recommend visiting his site.

He assembled the record this way:

Side A
River Song
Had To Phone Ya
TM Song
Barnyard Blues
That Same Song
Sherri She Needs Me

Side B
It's OK
Pacific Ocean Blues
Everyone's In Love With You
Rainbows
Back Home
Just Once In My Life

Would it have sold? I don't know...but it would have held up a lot better than what we got. THAT would have been a logical step from Holland. They still could have done 15 Big Ones (they recorded so many covers during those sessions)...but that could have been something like Party...a space filler in the catalog until the next LP was ready.

Think about it. Holland to "Group Therapy" to Love You and so on.