Brian And Dennis' Relationship

[Amy B.]

I also think that if Landy during the 2nd era hadn't gone the additional, far-off step of becoming a complete and total scumbag that he did in the late '80s/early '90s... if he had just eased off from Brian and not become the creep that he did in fact become, that the family's decision of getting Landy back in late '82 might not have been such a terrible choice. Would it be fair to say that the first year or two of Landy II ('83-'84-ish) were not nearly as bad as what eventually happened a few years later? If Landy had never gone overstepping the bounds that he did in fact do later that decade, and Brian had somehow been eased off from Landy's care, and had found and married Melinda, would Landy be considered nearly the creep that he is today?

I'm trying to be non-judgmental...  I'd tend to guess that even though the family had some real crappy thoughts about Landy in '76 that led to his dismissal then, there probably weren't enough warning signs for them to have had any inkling that Landy was capable of the actions he eventually did. So I think it wasn't necessarily completely unreasonable for them to have thought that Landy (as they knew him to be in '82) might have been a not completely terrible option. I can understand people thinking that Brian needed someone outside the box of normal treatment that was known about at the time.  

That's sort of what Brian said in the Larry King interview. He said something like (of Marilyn hiring Landy) "She didn't know he would turn out to do the things he did."

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I also think that if Landy during the 2nd era hadn't gone the additional, far-off step of becoming a complete and total scumbag that he did in the late '80s/early '90s... if he had just eased off from Brian and not become the creep that he did in fact become, that the family's decision of getting Landy back in late '82 might not have been such a terrible choice. Would it be fair to say that the first year or two of Landy II ('83-'84-ish) were not nearly as bad as what eventually happened a few years later? If Landy had never gone overstepping the bounds that he did in fact do later that decade, and Brian had somehow been eased off from Landy's care, and had found and married Melinda, would Landy be considered nearly the creep that he is today?

I'm trying to be non-judgmental...  I'd tend to guess that even though the family had some real crappy thoughts about Landy in '76 that led to his dismissal then, there probably weren't enough warning signs for them to have had any inkling that Landy was capable of the actions he eventually did. So I think it wasn't necessarily completely unreasonable for them to have thought that Landy (as they knew him to be in '82) might have been a not completely terrible option. I can understand people thinking that Brian needed someone outside the box of normal treatment that was known about at the time.  

That's sort of what Brian said in the Larry King interview. He said something like (of Marilyn hiring Landy) "She didn't know he would turn out to do the things he did."

IIRC, it was more along the lines of   ' it wasn't her fault...she didn't know he would turn out to be a crazy man'

[Lonely Summer]

When Brian was hooked up again with Landy in 1982-83, it sure was implied that, after an undetermined length of time, Brian would be on his own again as a happier, healthier person. At what point did the warning signals start to go off? Did Carl and the others think they had to put up with Landy if they wanted to see Brian stay healthy? I wonder what would have happened if Brian had been independent in 1985?

[Amy B.]

That's sort of what Brian said in the Larry King interview. He said something like (of Marilyn hiring Landy) "She didn't know he would turn out to do the things he did."

IIRC, it was more along the lines of   ' it wasn't her fault...she didn't know he would turn out to be a crazy man'

Right, that's what I was thinking of.

[c-man]

When Brian was hooked up again with Landy in 1982-83, it sure was implied that, after an undetermined length of time, Brian would be on his own again as a happier, healthier person. At what point did the warning signals start to go off? Did Carl and the others think they had to put up with Landy if they wanted to see Brian stay healthy? I wonder what would have happened if Brian had been independent in 1985?

In 1985, Brian went swimming and decided to keep swimming, and not come back. Landy's men had to swim out and rescue him. I wonder if that prolonged his "treatment" beyond the originally agreed-upon duration?

[Cam Mott]

B. WILSON: "My wife didn't know he was a crazy man."

[CenturyDeprived]

When Brian was hooked up again with Landy in 1982-83, it sure was implied that, after an undetermined length of time, Brian would be on his own again as a happier, healthier person. At what point did the warning signals start to go off? Did Carl and the others think they had to put up with Landy if they wanted to see Brian stay healthy? I wonder what would have happened if Brian had been independent in 1985?

In 1985, Brian went swimming and decided to keep swimming, and not come back. Landy's men had to swim out and rescue him. I wonder if that prolonged his "treatment" beyond the originally agreed-upon duration?

Good question.

Here's another question... how much (or little) did Landy himself have interaction with any non-Brian Beach Boy member, or Beach Boy family member, during the Landy II period? Obviously, it's well-known how scarce Landy made Brian available to interact with The Boys + family members, but did Landy himself stay just as hidden away and unreachable to them as Brian was made to be?

I'd assume that since Landy was present for "emotional support?" when Brian made appearances during the Landy II era, that would have been a time when theoretically The Boys/ family members could have conversed with Landy and/or questioned his tactics/punched hiim. I'm guessing that Landy was present side stage when Brian was onstage (at a time when The Boys were occupied by actually performing, and not in any proper circumstance to have a proper, formal conversation), and that as soon as Brian's performance portion of the show was done, Landy probably tried to disappear ASAP like Batman into the night with Brian in tow.

And bringing the question back to Dennis, how much (or little) interaction did Landy have with Dennis whatsoever during either the Landy I or Landy II periods (only 1 year of overlap on the latter)?

[Sound of Free]

Is is true that Carl wanted to have Landy treat Dennis, and was going to stage an intervention after the new year, to spare Audree the pain of a painfully ugly scene during the holiday season?

I'm sure it's a real long shot, but how great would have it have been if Landy got Dennis clean, but Dennis saw what Landy really was and got a sober Brian away from him?

[Debbie KL]

Is is true that Carl wanted to have Landy treat Dennis, and was going to stage an intervention after the new year, to spare Audree the pain of a painfully ugly scene during the holiday season?

I'm sure it's a real long shot, but how great would have it have been if Landy got Dennis clean, but Dennis saw what Landy really was and got a sober Brian away from him?

I'm thinking a Landy Dennis intervention would have been doomed from the start.  Dennis was not the type of patient Landy could have worked with, since his style was based in domination/authority - the last thing Dennis would tolerate unless he was so heavily medicated that he didn't know what was happening to him.  I couldn't even imagine a docile Denny sitting next to Landy smiling and singing his praises.  Can anyone else here, seriously?

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

Is is true that Carl wanted to have Landy treat Dennis, and was going to stage an intervention after the new year, to spare Audree the pain of a painfully ugly scene during the holiday season?

I'm sure it's a real long shot, but how great would have it have been if Landy got Dennis clean, but Dennis saw what Landy really was and got a sober Brian away from him?

I'm thinking a Landy Dennis intervention would have been doomed from the start.  Dennis was not the type of patient Landy could have worked with, since his style was based in domination/authority - the last thing Dennis would tolerate unless he was so heavily medicated that he didn't know what was happening to him.  I couldn't even imagine a docile Denny sitting next to Landy smiling and singing his praises.  Can anyone else here, seriously?

NOPE. I don't think Dennis would let himself get hoodwinked by a charismatic charlatan twice in one lifetime.

[Lonely Summer]

Is is true that Carl wanted to have Landy treat Dennis, and was going to stage an intervention after the new year, to spare Audree the pain of a painfully ugly scene during the holiday season?

I'm sure it's a real long shot, but how great would have it have been if Landy got Dennis clean, but Dennis saw what Landy really was and got a sober Brian away from him?

I guess it shows just how desperate Carl was, that he would even try to get Dennis hooked up with Landy. No, I don't think that partnership would have worked. Dennis was too much of a fighter, and Landy probably wouldn't have seen Dennis as a potential songwriting partner. I mean, how many hits did Dennis write? Landy thought (as Mike once said) "that Brian was the goose that laid the golden egg". He expected that if he could be Brian's co-writer/producer/backup singer, he'd make even more millions than he was as Brian's therapist. He must have been pissed when BW88 only sold moderately, and the BB's Kokomo sold millions.

[Jay]

Is is true that Carl wanted to have Landy treat Dennis, and was going to stage an intervention after the new year, to spare Audree the pain of a painfully ugly scene during the holiday season?

I'm sure it's a real long shot, but how great would have it have been if Landy got Dennis clean, but Dennis saw what Landy really was and got a sober Brian away from him?

I'm thinking a Landy Dennis intervention would have been doomed from the start.  Dennis was not the type of patient Landy could have worked with, since his style was based in domination/authority - the last thing Dennis would tolerate unless he was so heavily medicated that he didn't know what was happening to him.  I couldn't even imagine a docile Denny sitting next to Landy smiling and singing his praises.  Can anyone else here, seriously?

NOPE. I don't think Dennis would let himself get hoodwinked by a charismatic charlatan twice in one lifetime.

You just touched on a really interesting "what if" scenario that I never thought of before. What if the Manson incident had never happened? Without that prior experience of behind "duped" or betrayed by somebody he thought was a friend(Manson), could/would Dennis have been taken in by landy?

[Lonely Summer]

Is is true that Carl wanted to have Landy treat Dennis, and was going to stage an intervention after the new year, to spare Audree the pain of a painfully ugly scene during the holiday season?

I'm sure it's a real long shot, but how great would have it have been if Landy got Dennis clean, but Dennis saw what Landy really was and got a sober Brian away from him?

I'm thinking a Landy Dennis intervention would have been doomed from the start.  Dennis was not the type of patient Landy could have worked with, since his style was based in domination/authority - the last thing Dennis would tolerate unless he was so heavily medicated that he didn't know what was happening to him.  I couldn't even imagine a docile Denny sitting next to Landy smiling and singing his praises.  Can anyone else here, seriously?

NOPE. I don't think Dennis would let himself get hoodwinked by a charismatic charlatan twice in one lifetime.

You just touched on a really interesting "what if" scenario that I never thought of before. What if the Manson incident had never happened? Without that prior experience of behind "duped" or betrayed by somebody he thought was a friend(Manson), could/would Dennis have been taken in by landy?

Only if Landy had a harum of beautiful 18 year old girls with him.

[Debbie KL]

Is is true that Carl wanted to have Landy treat Dennis, and was going to stage an intervention after the new year, to spare Audree the pain of a painfully ugly scene during the holiday season?

I'm sure it's a real long shot, but how great would have it have been if Landy got Dennis clean, but Dennis saw what Landy really was and got a sober Brian away from him?

I'm thinking a Landy Dennis intervention would have been doomed from the start.  Dennis was not the type of patient Landy could have worked with, since his style was based in domination/authority - the last thing Dennis would tolerate unless he was so heavily medicated that he didn't know what was happening to him.  I couldn't even imagine a docile Denny sitting next to Landy smiling and singing his praises.  Can anyone else here, seriously?

NOPE. I don't think Dennis would let himself get hoodwinked by a charismatic charlatan twice in one lifetime.

You just touched on a really interesting "what if" scenario that I never thought of before. What if the Manson incident had never happened? Without that prior experience of behind "duped" or betrayed by somebody he thought was a friend(Manson), could/would Dennis have been taken in by landy?

Only if Landy had a harum of beautiful 18 year old girls with him.

Well, there's that, as long as everyone is fantasizing. 

In the end, Brian and Dennis loved each other in a complicated way (they had those parents - perfect for remarkably gifted children, terrible for stable sibling relationships). I'm thinking that's as far as Brian will take the idea in this lifetime since privacy is a treasure these days, but I haven't seen his bio.  I guess we can discuss it in Oct or so...