Dennis on Aquarius

[c-man]

Anyone catch the two-hour, commercial-free Season 2 premier of Aquarius on NBC last night? I thought Andy Favreau was good in his role as the fictionalized Dennis Wilson. The whole show is extremely fictionalized (including the gold records hanging on Dennis' wall!), but at least Favreau brings something credible to his portrayal of the Dennis character.

Curious to see others' reactions.

[Emdeeh]

I found this Aquarius -- three episodes in one -- a bit of a slog to get through. I generally like police-procedural shows, but this one lost me pretty quickly in terms of the story lines. The Dennis portrayal feels more like a generic rock star character to me, so far.

[c-man]

I found this Aquarius -- three episodes in one -- a bit of a slog to get through. I generally like police-procedural shows, but this one lost me pretty quickly in terms of the story lines. The Dennis portrayal feels more like a generic rock star character to me, so far.

The only criticism I would give is that Favreau seemed a little too "cheerful" in his portrayal of Dennis; Dennis at that time of his life should be portrayed as a bit more "somber" in my opinion. He had just gone through his first divorce, and was experiencing a lot of guilt over his worldly fame and riches. He was also on a spiritual quest by this point, having discovered TM the previous Christmastime, and was composing music for the existential lyrics of Stephen Kalinich. It's as if the studio footage from the "GV" vocal sessions, where Dennis is goofing around and smiling and winking, provided the basis for Favreua's portrayal. But, we'll see how the Dennis character develops, and if the portrayal becomes more true-to-life; the scene where "Dennis" describes Murry's tyrannical approach to fatherhood and band management does give a glimpse into the darker side of his psyche. Looks-wise, I think the similarity is striking, and I think he bears a much closer physical resemblance to Dennis than did Bruce Greenwood, Nick Stabile, or Kenny Wormald. I think Aaron Eckhart would have been an interesting Dennis, had "The Drummer" actually been made. Physcially, it's all down to the chin.

[guitarfool2002]

I saw this was going to air but have not watched it yet, so I can't comment on the specifics, obviously. But what I noticed about nearly every Manson-related film or attempt to portray that story so far is just what a staggering amount of simple facts and details they either miss, ignore, or whitewash entirely. There is a very firm separation between what Vincent Bugliosi crafted as his prosecution in order to win convictions in court versus the 75% or more of the other details that no one, but no one, seems to want to touch.

What would lead famous people who we would know as having "street smarts" to even entertain Manson beyond one initial meeting, since those with street smarts can often detect someone's true character before anyone else and put up a defense if necessary? Dennis, Neil Young, Terry Melcher, any number of Hollywood stars and music biz movers and shakers...how did they all get taken in by this con artist and hustler if the Bugliosi portrayal was accurate? I don't think they would have. And that missing element is what no one wants to touch. It all turns into caricature and Manson is shown as the "guru" who heard messages in Beatles albums and who rooked Dennis Wilson.

[c-man]

What I find interesting is that the Aquarius depiction of Manson is of a guy who's at least a bit unsure of himself, and rather insecure...while that may very well have been true in the case of the real Manson, from what I've read, he managed to hide that and project an appearance of confidence and dominance. Other than the many young women who fell under his spell, the Aquarius "Manson" character doesn't really seem like a confident leader, and comes across as quite nervous and perhaps awestruck in the presence of the confident, charismatic "Dennis" character. He Maybe the Manson character will develop more in the episodes to come. But for now, he just comes off as larcenous and murderous, but not really a guru or wizard, as the real Dennis came to consider him.

[guitarfool2002]

What I find interesting is that the Aquarius depiction of Manson is of a guy who's at least a bit unsure of himself, and rather insecure...while that may very well have been true in the case of the real Manson, from what I've read, he managed to hide that and project an appearance of confidence and dominance. Other than the many young women who fell under his spell, the Aquarius "Manson" character doesn't really seem like a confident leader, and comes across as quite nervous and perhaps awestruck in the presence of the confident, charismatic "Dennis" character. He Maybe the Manson character will develop more in the episodes to come. But for now, he just comes off as larcenous and murderous, but not really a guru or wizard, as the real Dennis came to consider him.

Those are good points, I have to start watching it as I was waiting for the Wilson connections to start popping up in the timeline. There is a lot of Manson as a con man and a huckster that doesn't get portrayed as much as it should, and it was what he learned in prison since he was young and how he navigated through his various pursuits. The deadly combination was how he learned various mind control techniques and various methods used by religions and various religious sects and offshoots that created the deadly combination. Without getting too far into it, he was a con artist who was armed with some very, very strong weapons including mind-control, hypnosis, and drugs that can enhance those techniques to dangerous heights when applied to willing participants.

The eerie part of the paper trail is that interview with Dennis where he describes the "dance" he was taught by the wizard/guru Manson, and that was part of the psychological techniques that Manson learned from a cellmate. It wasn't a dance step, it was part of programming. But, I'll leave it there, lol.

Ultimately Manson having to survive as a criminal and as a con artist, not to mention dealing and distributing drugs, would have to never show insecurity or be starstruck. If he did, that would be the end of him, his survival lifelines would disappear. And likewise, it's hard to believe sometimes just who got wrapped up with him, considering how strong they were both in personality and street smarts. They're people who you wouldn't think would be taken in by a career criminal and chronic liar, and his merry band of followers. But they did. I wish some of the other reasons why would be brought out in either Aquarius or any subsequent projects. Because finding out who was who at the Tate house gives a small glimpse into what worlds were connecting with each other in LA, and how Manson's connections went beyond being a self-created guru and wizard. It can be fascinating and troubling.

[joe_blow]

Clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk94Jj7B1F4

[Emdeeh]

Major gaffe in tonight's episode. They have Dennis at home when MLK was shot. He was with the BBs in Nashville that day.

Edit: Bellagio says the Nashville show was scheduled for the next day... Ian?

[jeffh]

I watched a few episodes of this last season. I just couldn't get into it. I was a teenager in the 60s. Maybe us older folks have a harder time relating to how it is being portrayed on this series. I don't know....

[c-man]

Last week they finally introduced the Terry Melcher character. Last night, they added the Gregg Jakobson character, and Charlie finally played "Cease To Exist" for Dennis. The collection of musical instruments in the Dennis character's home include a sweet Danelectro Bellzouki, Rickenbacker 12-string, Gibson acoustic, and Fender bass, plus various keyboard, drum and percussion instruments. That's really the only reason I watch this show, for stuff like this. Well, that and my wife likes David Duchovny.

[HeyJude]

I guess these shows have even more leeway to do whatever they want with characters like Dennis and Melcher, as they're deceased and nobody can sue for libel, etc. Not that anything in the show is libelous; I haven't seen it.

Duchovny is an odd duck when it comes to acting. His "style" worked on "X-Files" (at least, for the majority of that series), but he has a weird acting style that often comes across as utterly disinterested and dead.

While the recent "X-Files" reboot/new season aired several months back was pretty gawdawful (more the fault of Chris Carter than Duchovny), I kind of secretly have to hope his other gigs like "Aquarius" get canceled so they'll get back to the "X-Files" and try to finish that off with a bit of dignity and something other than jaw-dropping mediocrity.

[guitarfool2002]

Bumping this thread because I finally had a chance to catch up with this series on Netflix and binge-watched the entire season 1 and just paused it at the point where Dennis is going to reshape Manson's "Cease To Exist". I've been wanting to catch up for a few years on this series, and my thoughts are that season one was pretty damn engrossing perhaps more for a history buff like me who has delved pretty deep into this scene and the era, but I would imagine people originally watching it might have missed a lot of the subtle touches.

I thought the acting in season 1 was very good, the set design top-notch, you came to care about the characters and what happened next despite many plot lines intertwining, but for me the pace of each episode seemed to slow considerably whenever the focus was on the Manson commune when I'm guessing those scenes would have been the draw for a general audience.

And does anyone know why Season 1 is shown on Netflix uncensored and R-rated (and continuous) while season 2 so far looks like they took it from an NBC broadcast with edits and even a black screen insert where commercials would have appeared? It's very jarring and it slows the show down far more than when I was watching season 1. It's almost like watching a different show because of those edits and censored segments.

Overall I like seeing any depiction of that era and the people, so I'm all-in. There were also some factoids about Manson's history that are not as widely known among those whose main reference is and has been the Bugliosi book and overall narrative. There are so many more layers to the entire saga than what Bugliosi used to win those convictions, and the truth is far more fascinating than those accepted narratives suggest.

And I will say, after going down the rabbit hole of Tom O'Neill's book "Chaos" and seeing O'Neill on Joe Rogan's show, I can never and will never see the Manson saga the same way again, both in the way O'Neill brought out information that was only whispered or even dismissed in years past or in a few startling cases, brand new information that has never been exposed to the general public. It's a game-changer for sure, and there is still the feeling that in a lot of circles that kind of information is not as welcome as the 45+ year old Bugliosi "Helter Skelter" narrative that has ruled the day for general public information on what went down with Charlie.

Just wondering if anyone else has dipped back into this show on Netflix recently and what the thoughts might be 4 years after the initial NBC run.

PS - The replacement music, the changing of names on gold records, etc...strictly ways to save money on the production. If all of those songs you hear had been original, classic 60's tracks and not soundalikes or song-placement soundalikes of 60's-sounding music, the production would have gone bankrupt paying all the fees. I also think the gold record scenes were changed because they either didn't want to pay for or maybe were denied permission to use authentic Beach Boys imagery and the brand name on a record image due to the subject matter of the show, but I'm not sure.

[Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll]

I'd forgotten about this so this thread inspired me to give it a watch. I watched the first episode but gonna leave it there I think.

It's not necessarily terrible but I don't feel it's worth continuing with.

Can someone point me in the direction of which episodes the character loosely based on Dennis is in? as I'd like to have a quick look at them.

Edit: Just found this

- Piggies (2016) ... Dennis Wilson
- Revolution 9 (2016) ... Dennis Wilson
- Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey (2016) ... Dennis Wilson
- Revolution 1 (2016) ... Dennis Wilson
- Why Don't We Do It in the Road (2016) ... Dennis Wilson
- Happiness Is a Warm Gun (2016) ... Dennis Wilson
- Helter Skelter (2016) ... Dennis Wilson