Mike's contribution to Kokomo

[Smilin Ed H]

I always hated that song because it wasn't what I wanted the aging Beach Boys to be doing - you know, this kind of lounge rock. But... it's a catchy tune, it got them exposure and Carl's vocals are particularly good - and it led to a semi-rewrite with Still Cruisin' (though that may not be a good thing). hate the sax bit almost as much as I hate the sax bit in California Dreamin'. Certainly not the worst thing they ever did. It's a pity that whatever creative touch Melcher and Usher had in the 60s had deserted them by the time they crossed paths with Mike and Brian respectively in this later period.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm not sure who already mentioned this, but when Kokomo was still hot as a single and Capitol was looking for follow-ups both singles and a new album, there was an LA Times article (reprinted here often enough that it's easy to search and find for reference) that was written as the band was rehearsing for a new batch of stage shows, I think it mentioned the dancers too. In that article if not others from around the Kokomo era there were quotes and comments that were suggesting there was indeed an attitude of 'we did this without Brian', so we don't need him to make hits with the Beach Boys.

So whoever mentioned it in this thread, that was actually a sentiment which was coming from press reports and interviews surrounding the Beach Boys.

As I mentioned, they couldn't carry the load. Capitol had to make the follow-up album to push with the Kokomo single a catch-all compilation of TV and soundtrack tunes with very little original or new material, and the next truly original offering was Summer In Paradise, where the Melcher-led production team was in place i guess to try catching the Kokomo lightning in a bottle yet again using the synth-driven formula, and Capitol wouldn't touch it. The further results showed even more that the band without Brian Wilson just didn't deliver, and even more difficult to understand, they had a relative lack of original songs leading up to Summer In Paradise despite still having four songwriters as original members in the band, and at least three members who had already produced or co-produced previous Beach Boys efforts. Could they really deliver full, quality albums without Brian even if his involvement was limited?

This specific era suggests no, apart from one single. They had no material despite Capitol asking for new songs to release to follow up the success of Kokomo.

[CenturyDeprived]

I'm not sure who already mentioned this, but when Kokomo was still hot as a single and Capitol was looking for follow-ups both singles and a new album, there was an LA Times article (reprinted here often enough that it's easy to search and find for reference) that was written as the band was rehearsing for a new batch of stage shows, I think it mentioned the dancers too. In that article if not others from around the Kokomo era there were quotes and comments that were suggesting there was indeed an attitude of 'we did this without Brian', so we don't need him to make hits with the Beach Boys.

So whoever mentioned it in this thread, that was actually a sentiment which was coming from press reports and interviews surrounding the Beach Boys.

It would seem that the new article hell-bent on "destroying" the legend of Brian Wilson might come from this same sentiment -a sentiment which I don't necessarily think has exited the minds of all of the living band members. I happen to dearly love a lot of the material the band did without Brian, and some of it is my favorite stuff in the entire catalog... but the fact of the matter is that past the era when Denny was an active contributor to the band, and Carl was motivated to be pushing boundaries and to be progressive, the quality of Brian Wilson-less BB was just simply not there (with some isolated exceptions here and there). It took Wilsons (at least one, minimum) to make the band awesome on an emotional level.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm not sure who already mentioned this, but when Kokomo was still hot as a single and Capitol was looking for follow-ups both singles and a new album, there was an LA Times article (reprinted here often enough that it's easy to search and find for reference) that was written as the band was rehearsing for a new batch of stage shows, I think it mentioned the dancers too. In that article if not others from around the Kokomo era there were quotes and comments that were suggesting there was indeed an attitude of 'we did this without Brian', so we don't need him to make hits with the Beach Boys.

So whoever mentioned it in this thread, that was actually a sentiment which was coming from press reports and interviews surrounding the Beach Boys.

It would seem that the new article hell-bent on "destroying" the legend of Brian Wilson might come from this same sentiment -a sentiment which I don't necessarily think has exited the minds of all of the living band members. I happen to dearly love a lot of the material the band did without Brian, and some of it is my favorite stuff in the entire catalog... but the fact of the matter is that past the era when Denny was an active contributor to the band, and Carl was motivated to be pushing boundaries and to be progressive, the quality of Brian Wilson-less BB was just simply not there (with some isolated exceptions here and there). It took Wilsons (at least one, minimum) to make the band awesome on an emotional level.

I agree, especially on the last line about emotions. There are some x-factor type elements in music that sometimes can't be defined, but you know it when it's not there. I feel the same about many, many classic bands whose members went solo or who went forward after losing key members. It's just missing that 'something' too often for me at least to connect on that deeper level.

In this case, the facts and the numbers don't lie. When the band was in a position to follow up with new material a #1 single that was all over the pop culture in 1988-89, they had four songwriters and three producers in the core band and they couldn't deliver a full album. Capitol was all but begging them for something to release, and they failed to deliver despite the talent still in the core band, minus Brian Wilson. What they did deliver was both a day late and a dollar short, and despite promoting the heck out of it and offering a remixed version for the UK market, the album sank like a stone as did all related promo tie-ins and the like. It just did not deliver.

[Emily]

This is the original John Phillips demo.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NAuqngA9CuM

Mike and Terry Melcher added the chorus, "Aruba, Jamaica, ooh I want to take you..." and changed "that's where we used to go" to "that's where we wanna go."

Nice find!

It's now been removed from YouTube! Tin foil hats at the ready....

Boo. I wanted to hear it.

[Robbie Mac]

I'm not sure who already mentioned this, but when Kokomo was still hot as a single and Capitol was looking for follow-ups both singles and a new album, there was an LA Times article (reprinted here often enough that it's easy to search and find for reference) that was written as the band was rehearsing for a new batch of stage shows, I think it mentioned the dancers too. In that article if not others from around the Kokomo era there were quotes and comments that were suggesting there was indeed an attitude of 'we did this without Brian', so we don't need him to make hits with the Beach Boys.

So whoever mentioned it in this thread, that was actually a sentiment which was coming from press reports and interviews surrounding the Beach Boys.

It would seem that the new article hell-bent on "destroying" the legend of Brian Wilson might come from this same sentiment -a sentiment which I don't necessarily think has exited the minds of all of the living band members. I happen to dearly love a lot of the material the band did without Brian, and some of it is my favorite stuff in the entire catalog... but the fact of the matter is that past the era when Denny was an active contributor to the band, and Carl was motivated to be pushing boundaries and to be progressive, the quality of Brian Wilson-less BB was just simply not there (with some isolated exceptions here and there). It took Wilsons (at least one, minimum) to make the band awesome on an emotional level.

As simplistic as I'm So Lonely is, that melody and that lyric sung in Brian's voice packs one helluva emotional wallop, which is rarely found in their music from the period.

[Juice Brohnston]

Brian knows what good
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&t=2m20s&v=aL5GnkWqO1k

[Emily]

So why did he wait almost 30 years, Cam? Why didn't he go to Murry when Murry was alive?

He went to his co-writer who was his Producer who was also a Publisher who assured him it would be fixed.  He waited for 30 years for the same reason Brian did I suppose, Rob.

He could have also gone to Murry, you know. Mike wasn't afraid to punch Murry out.

Actually, until 1964, when the problem had already occurred, Brian didn't have the legal status to do anything.
And, as his cousin, I should think Mike would have known and understood that it was difficult for Brian to challenge Murry and Mike should have tried to avoid putting Brian in that position.

If I remember the LA Times articles about Brian's suit against Irving Music et al right, Brian thought he was a partner in the SOT publishing back then (though it turned out later it wasn't legal) which may be one reason Mike went to Brian. I'm assuming Brian asked Mike to write to be published by SOT and Brian was also their producer.

I suggest that the Brian Mike actually knew back then was much different than the image we project on Brian from now which would explain why Mike had confidence in taking it to Brian and why Brian was able to get so many people to do so much. And I suspect the Mike that Brian actually knew was much different then the image we project back on him from now. Who knows, anyway Mike took it to Brian.

Anyway I thought the timing issue was settled by newspaper accounts. 30 years after the fact, some lawyers brought the plan of suing Irving to Brian, those lawyers recruited Mike to help them in the suit by promising Mike restitution of a third or 30% of Brian's potential settlement which was projected at $200 mil but landed at $10 mil. Brian's team won but didn't pay Mike as promised and Mike sued.  Mike has said in some interview that he didn't know or think there was any way of getting restitution for those 30 years until Brian's lawyers came to him with this plan to sue Irving.  Something like that.

 

Your last paragraph might be the answer.
With the first two, Mike Love has talked about how brutal Murry was and how harmful he was to Brian. As his cousin, I'd expect he wouldn't pressure Brian to confront Murry over something that he could just talk to Murry about himself.

[CenturyDeprived]

I'm not sure who already mentioned this, but when Kokomo was still hot as a single and Capitol was looking for follow-ups both singles and a new album, there was an LA Times article (reprinted here often enough that it's easy to search and find for reference) that was written as the band was rehearsing for a new batch of stage shows, I think it mentioned the dancers too. In that article if not others from around the Kokomo era there were quotes and comments that were suggesting there was indeed an attitude of 'we did this without Brian', so we don't need him to make hits with the Beach Boys.

So whoever mentioned it in this thread, that was actually a sentiment which was coming from press reports and interviews surrounding the Beach Boys.

It would seem that the new article hell-bent on "destroying" the legend of Brian Wilson might come from this same sentiment -a sentiment which I don't necessarily think has exited the minds of all of the living band members. I happen to dearly love a lot of the material the band did without Brian, and some of it is my favorite stuff in the entire catalog... but the fact of the matter is that past the era when Denny was an active contributor to the band, and Carl was motivated to be pushing boundaries and to be progressive, the quality of Brian Wilson-less BB was just simply not there (with some isolated exceptions here and there). It took Wilsons (at least one, minimum) to make the band awesome on an emotional level.

I agree, especially on the last line about emotions. There are some x-factor type elements in music that sometimes can't be defined, but you know it when it's not there. I feel the same about many, many classic bands whose members went solo or who went forward after losing key members. It's just missing that 'something' too often for me at least to connect on that deeper level.

In this case, the facts and the numbers don't lie. When the band was in a position to follow up with new material a #1 single that was all over the pop culture in 1988-89, they had four songwriters and three producers in the core band and they couldn't deliver a full album. Capitol was all but begging them for something to release, and they failed to deliver despite the talent still in the core band, minus Brian Wilson. What they did deliver was both a day late and a dollar short, and despite promoting the heck out of it and offering a remixed version for the UK market, the album sank like a stone as did all related promo tie-ins and the like. It just did not deliver.

I would tend to surmise that part of that lack of follow-up to Kokomo would be attributed to several factors: the relentless, non-stop touring (I would tend to think that was mostly being pushed by Mike, though I'd not doubt that some other members thought that they should cash in while the tour money was good)... and also that Mike seemed to assume a far greater level of control in the era following Kokomo, which may have left little for any other members to contribute material (even if they had some good stuff stockpiled).

Not that Al, Bruce or Carl were the most prolific guys around (especially in that era), but I think that if Mike c*ck-blocked Al from having songs included on TWGMTR, I would be shocked if that weren't also the case around the SIP era, especially since Al was nearly forced out of the band at that time, perhaps for failing to fall in line/complying with an agenda pushed by newly-empowered Kokomo co-scribe Mike. Carl obviously had more creativity left in him, but he directed that toward the Beckley-Lamm-Wilson project. Was Carl's new material not necessarily fully welcome in BB-land? Or did he just not want to emotionally deal with the politics that submitting new material to The BBs might have entailed?

[guitarfool2002]

Just to clear up: Kokomo was on a John Phillips album, it was not the demo posted to YouTube. He even played it on the air for Howard Stern when it was still his "new" song.

Why it got pulled from YouTube this week after it had been there in various posts for a long time, yeah that's an odd one.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm not sure who already mentioned this, but when Kokomo was still hot as a single and Capitol was looking for follow-ups both singles and a new album, there was an LA Times article (reprinted here often enough that it's easy to search and find for reference) that was written as the band was rehearsing for a new batch of stage shows, I think it mentioned the dancers too. In that article if not others from around the Kokomo era there were quotes and comments that were suggesting there was indeed an attitude of 'we did this without Brian', so we don't need him to make hits with the Beach Boys.

So whoever mentioned it in this thread, that was actually a sentiment which was coming from press reports and interviews surrounding the Beach Boys.

It would seem that the new article hell-bent on "destroying" the legend of Brian Wilson might come from this same sentiment -a sentiment which I don't necessarily think has exited the minds of all of the living band members. I happen to dearly love a lot of the material the band did without Brian, and some of it is my favorite stuff in the entire catalog... but the fact of the matter is that past the era when Denny was an active contributor to the band, and Carl was motivated to be pushing boundaries and to be progressive, the quality of Brian Wilson-less BB was just simply not there (with some isolated exceptions here and there). It took Wilsons (at least one, minimum) to make the band awesome on an emotional level.

I agree, especially on the last line about emotions. There are some x-factor type elements in music that sometimes can't be defined, but you know it when it's not there. I feel the same about many, many classic bands whose members went solo or who went forward after losing key members. It's just missing that 'something' too often for me at least to connect on that deeper level.

In this case, the facts and the numbers don't lie. When the band was in a position to follow up with new material a #1 single that was all over the pop culture in 1988-89, they had four songwriters and three producers in the core band and they couldn't deliver a full album. Capitol was all but begging them for something to release, and they failed to deliver despite the talent still in the core band, minus Brian Wilson. What they did deliver was both a day late and a dollar short, and despite promoting the heck out of it and offering a remixed version for the UK market, the album sank like a stone as did all related promo tie-ins and the like. It just did not deliver.

I would tend to surmise that part of that lack of follow-up to Kokomo would be attributed to several factors: the relentless, non-stop touring (I would tend to think that was mostly being pushed by Mike, though I'd not doubt that some other members thought that they should cash in while the tour money was good)... and also that Mike seemed to assume a far greater level of control in the era following Kokomo, which may have left little for any other members to contribute material (even if they had some good stuff stockpiled).

Not that Al, Bruce or Carl were the most prolific guys around (especially in that era), but I think that if Mike c*ck-blocked Al from having songs included on TWGMTR, I would be shocked if that weren't also the case around the SIP era, especially since Al was nearly forced out of the band at that time, perhaps for failing to fall in line/complying with an agenda pushed by newly-empowered Kokomo co-scribe Mike. Carl obviously had more creativity left in him, but he directed that toward the Beckley-Lamm-Wilson project. Was Carl's new material not necessarily fully welcome in BB-land? Or did he just not want to emotionally deal with the politics that submitting new material to The BBs might have entailed?

To further muddy the waters, the LA Times article quotes Bruce as the member who seemed most enthusiastic about writing and releasing new, original material. His quote is along the lines of him not wanting to become a touring oldies act, versus releasing new songs.

I know there were a lot of tensions at the time, but again with 4 writers and 3 producers, they failed to strike when the iron was hot...red hot, actually, as MTV was playing Kokomo in heavy rotation. When that kind of door opens, you can't wait several years for a follow up.

The only time the iron was as hot on a general public demand level was C50, and look what happened there.

[CenturyDeprived]

I'm not sure who already mentioned this, but when Kokomo was still hot as a single and Capitol was looking for follow-ups both singles and a new album, there was an LA Times article (reprinted here often enough that it's easy to search and find for reference) that was written as the band was rehearsing for a new batch of stage shows, I think it mentioned the dancers too. In that article if not others from around the Kokomo era there were quotes and comments that were suggesting there was indeed an attitude of 'we did this without Brian', so we don't need him to make hits with the Beach Boys.

So whoever mentioned it in this thread, that was actually a sentiment which was coming from press reports and interviews surrounding the Beach Boys.

It would seem that the new article hell-bent on "destroying" the legend of Brian Wilson might come from this same sentiment -a sentiment which I don't necessarily think has exited the minds of all of the living band members. I happen to dearly love a lot of the material the band did without Brian, and some of it is my favorite stuff in the entire catalog... but the fact of the matter is that past the era when Denny was an active contributor to the band, and Carl was motivated to be pushing boundaries and to be progressive, the quality of Brian Wilson-less BB was just simply not there (with some isolated exceptions here and there). It took Wilsons (at least one, minimum) to make the band awesome on an emotional level.

I agree, especially on the last line about emotions. There are some x-factor type elements in music that sometimes can't be defined, but you know it when it's not there. I feel the same about many, many classic bands whose members went solo or who went forward after losing key members. It's just missing that 'something' too often for me at least to connect on that deeper level.

In this case, the facts and the numbers don't lie. When the band was in a position to follow up with new material a #1 single that was all over the pop culture in 1988-89, they had four songwriters and three producers in the core band and they couldn't deliver a full album. Capitol was all but begging them for something to release, and they failed to deliver despite the talent still in the core band, minus Brian Wilson. What they did deliver was both a day late and a dollar short, and despite promoting the heck out of it and offering a remixed version for the UK market, the album sank like a stone as did all related promo tie-ins and the like. It just did not deliver.

I would tend to surmise that part of that lack of follow-up to Kokomo would be attributed to several factors: the relentless, non-stop touring (I would tend to think that was mostly being pushed by Mike, though I'd not doubt that some other members thought that they should cash in while the tour money was good)... and also that Mike seemed to assume a far greater level of control in the era following Kokomo, which may have left little for any other members to contribute material (even if they had some good stuff stockpiled).

Not that Al, Bruce or Carl were the most prolific guys around (especially in that era), but I think that if Mike c*ck-blocked Al from having songs included on TWGMTR, I would be shocked if that weren't also the case around the SIP era, especially since Al was nearly forced out of the band at that time, perhaps for failing to fall in line/complying with an agenda pushed by newly-empowered Kokomo co-scribe Mike. Carl obviously had more creativity left in him, but he directed that toward the Beckley-Lamm-Wilson project. Was Carl's new material not necessarily fully welcome in BB-land? Or did he just not want to emotionally deal with the politics that submitting new material to The BBs might have entailed?

To further muddy the waters, the LA Times article quotes Bruce as the member who seemed most enthusiastic about writing and releasing new, original material. His quote is along the lines of him not wanting to become a touring oldies act, versus releasing new songs.

I know there were a lot of tensions at the time, but again with 4 writers and 3 producers, they failed to strike when the iron was hot...red hot, actually, as MTV was playing Kokomo in heavy rotation. When that kind of door opens, you can't wait several years for a follow up.

The only time the iron was as hot on a general public demand level was C50, and look what happened there.

To further muddy the waters on top of that... the fact that SIP had as many covers as it did is also a head-scratcher. It's so obvious that they are filler. It would seem that SIP was probably largely made completely independently by Mike/Terry, and that even if any other member had any potential material to offer, the relationships may have been so strained that Mike would rather have chosen adding multiple poor covers as opposed to dealing with even working in the studio with with the other members who might want to have a hint of creative contributions.

It's weird, because I had never drawn a parallel to 15 Big Ones and SIP until now, but both albums are padded out with too many cover versions. Obviously, the genesis of 15 Big Ones is different, and it started out as an attempt at a full covers album paired with an album of new Brian originals. But in both cases, I think the covers were an easy way out of not dealing with the emotional complexity of the times. Brian perhaps didn't want to deal having new songs being rejected for the umpteenth time, and Mike perhaps didn't want to deal with ceding some creative control of the band that he'd gained from Kokomo, even if the end result was half-assed.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm not sure who already mentioned this, but when Kokomo was still hot as a single and Capitol was looking for follow-ups both singles and a new album, there was an LA Times article (reprinted here often enough that it's easy to search and find for reference) that was written as the band was rehearsing for a new batch of stage shows, I think it mentioned the dancers too. In that article if not others from around the Kokomo era there were quotes and comments that were suggesting there was indeed an attitude of 'we did this without Brian', so we don't need him to make hits with the Beach Boys.

So whoever mentioned it in this thread, that was actually a sentiment which was coming from press reports and interviews surrounding the Beach Boys.

It would seem that the new article hell-bent on "destroying" the legend of Brian Wilson might come from this same sentiment -a sentiment which I don't necessarily think has exited the minds of all of the living band members. I happen to dearly love a lot of the material the band did without Brian, and some of it is my favorite stuff in the entire catalog... but the fact of the matter is that past the era when Denny was an active contributor to the band, and Carl was motivated to be pushing boundaries and to be progressive, the quality of Brian Wilson-less BB was just simply not there (with some isolated exceptions here and there). It took Wilsons (at least one, minimum) to make the band awesome on an emotional level.

I agree, especially on the last line about emotions. There are some x-factor type elements in music that sometimes can't be defined, but you know it when it's not there. I feel the same about many, many classic bands whose members went solo or who went forward after losing key members. It's just missing that 'something' too often for me at least to connect on that deeper level.

In this case, the facts and the numbers don't lie. When the band was in a position to follow up with new material a #1 single that was all over the pop culture in 1988-89, they had four songwriters and three producers in the core band and they couldn't deliver a full album. Capitol was all but begging them for something to release, and they failed to deliver despite the talent still in the core band, minus Brian Wilson. What they did deliver was both a day late and a dollar short, and despite promoting the heck out of it and offering a remixed version for the UK market, the album sank like a stone as did all related promo tie-ins and the like. It just did not deliver.

I would tend to surmise that part of that lack of follow-up to Kokomo would be attributed to several factors: the relentless, non-stop touring (I would tend to think that was mostly being pushed by Mike, though I'd not doubt that some other members thought that they should cash in while the tour money was good)... and also that Mike seemed to assume a far greater level of control in the era following Kokomo, which may have left little for any other members to contribute material (even if they had some good stuff stockpiled).

Not that Al, Bruce or Carl were the most prolific guys around (especially in that era), but I think that if Mike c*ck-blocked Al from having songs included on TWGMTR, I would be shocked if that weren't also the case around the SIP era, especially since Al was nearly forced out of the band at that time, perhaps for failing to fall in line/complying with an agenda pushed by newly-empowered Kokomo co-scribe Mike. Carl obviously had more creativity left in him, but he directed that toward the Beckley-Lamm-Wilson project. Was Carl's new material not necessarily fully welcome in BB-land? Or did he just not want to emotionally deal with the politics that submitting new material to The BBs might have entailed?

To further muddy the waters, the LA Times article quotes Bruce as the member who seemed most enthusiastic about writing and releasing new, original material. His quote is along the lines of him not wanting to become a touring oldies act, versus releasing new songs.

I know there were a lot of tensions at the time, but again with 4 writers and 3 producers, they failed to strike when the iron was hot...red hot, actually, as MTV was playing Kokomo in heavy rotation. When that kind of door opens, you can't wait several years for a follow up.

The only time the iron was as hot on a general public demand level was C50, and look what happened there.

To further muddy the waters on top of that... the fact that SIP had as many covers as it did is also a head-scratcher. It's so obvious that they are filler. It would seem that SIP was probably largely made completely independently by Mike/Terry, and that even if any other member had any potential material to offer, the relationships may have been so strained that Mike would rather have chosen adding multiple poor covers as opposed to dealing with even working in the studio with with the other members who might want to have a hint of creative contributions.

It's weird, because I had never drawn a parallel to 15 Big Ones and SIP until now, but both albums are padded out with too many cover versions. Obviously, the genesis of 15 Big Ones is different, and it started out as an attempt at a full covers album paired with an album of new Brian originals. But in both cases, I think the covers were an easy way out of not dealing with the emotional complexity of the times. Brian perhaps didn't want to deal having new songs being rejected for the umpteenth time, and Mike perhaps didn't want to deal with ceding some creative control of the band that he'd gained from Kokomo, even if the end result was half-assed.

Even more parallels, look at the solo albums that have been released by Beach Boys band members since the 70's, not including Brian. Mike's album is all covers or songs others wrote except "Paradise Found". The solo releases from Al, Carl, Dennis, and Bruce feature either a majority or all original songs written by those members.

[CosmicDancer]

I will say that perhaps it's been overdone considering the fact that 28 years later, Mike still brings up Kokomo and how Brian wasn't involved as a sort of badge of approval and artistic merit, but I can give him a pass on it for the most part.  Consider the situation in 1988 and the ensuing decade(s).  Every interview you do brings up the brilliant songs that your cousin wrote and the success it's brought you.  Every record deal you've had since the 70's has come with the demand that a certain percentage of songs must be written by Brian.  Brian, Brian, Brian, etc.  Now then, I think that all of the Beach Boys know that Brian was the brilliant songwriter and that without him, none of this career they all enjoy happens.  I really think they are all appreciative of Brian's talent to a degree.  That being said, it must be hard to be the guy or guys that picked up the slack in songwriting and performing when Brian checked out more or less.  The guys that did some really great stuff in the years where Brian was less involved, but never really got the respect they deserved for it.  The guys that did everything they could, for better or sometimes for worse, to keep the legacy afloat.  That would be a very hard thing to do.  I think it's very natural for Mike, when his name is attached to something as huge as a #1 single, to be prideful and even a bit boastful that he and the boys had this success without the involvement of the guy that everyone has told him that he MUST have with him to achieve success for years and years.  I'm not saying that attitude is the right way to be, but I am saying I can understand how that attitude comes to be.  It's all a bit much all of these years later, but I think Mike had good reason for pumping up the fact that he cowrote a #1 single performed with the Boys without Brian. 

Regardless of what myself or anyone thinks of the quality of the song (I don't hate it with the gusto that many do, but I don't really like it either),  a #1 song is something that a lot of huge names in the music biz have never achieved, so I can give Mike a pass for being really proud of it and having pride in it.  Just a little perspective.

[HeyJude]

I think one of the issues with "Kokomo" is that Mike talks about it (and the same other few achievements) with the same one-note effusive tone that other artists do who really are something closer to "one hit wonders." In a typical Mike interview (where a lot of blame does have to go to interviewers who ask the same questions), one could be forgiven for thinking the Beach Boys didn't do anything of note between 1966 or 67 and "Kokomo", and not much since other than Mike touring, and other than whatever brand new project is at hand.

The Beach Boys aren't one of those bands that put one or a few albums out, or who had one hit and little else. They had numerous #1 hits, quite a few Top 10/Top 40 hits, and also have an arsenal of very *recognizable* songs that are well-known even if they weren't actual hits released as singles. They also have a huge catalog of material that is less known but highly rated and celebrated by more discerning fans and critics.

Even McCartney, notorious for bringing out the same war horse stories for decades, will sometimes entertain talking about the quirky electronic "McCartney II" album. He will name "You Know My Name (Look up the Number)" as his favorite Beatles song, etc. He often talks about the famous songs, but I don't think he is known to regularly bring up that such-and-such album hit #1. I don't think he or any of the Beatles ever cared a great deal about chart placement once they became popular. Obviously, when a band always hits #1, it's easier to say stuff like Ringo saying in "Anthology" that they were *relieved* when they finally had a single hit #2 instead of #1.

[JK]

This is the original John Phillips demo.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NAuqngA9CuM

Mike and Terry Melcher added the chorus, "Aruba, Jamaica, ooh I want to take you..." and changed "that's where we used to go" to "that's where we wanna go."

Nice find!

It's now been removed from YouTube! Tin foil hats at the ready....

Boo. I wanted to hear it.

Is this the same one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8JqzFg1OGs

[Juice Brohnston]

Now wait a minute....while Brian and Landy were putting out a big turkey of an album in 1988, Mike  had a worldwide #1 record. If anyone knows how to make a hit record with Brian, it's Mike (paraphrasing the man himself).





 

Hmmm...  well first, as this thread shows, much of the song wasn't written by the band members of all.  Also, that 'big turkey' of an album got pretty stellar reviews and charted not much lower than the BB's album that contained the single you're talking about.  It also charted much better than the next BB's album... and now both BB's albums are out of print...  while the 'big turkey' has been re-released in deluxe format.

The BB's "album" in question wasn't even a full album, it was a collection of previous releases and soundtrack material that Capitol put together to sell Kokomo on an album under their own label rather than the label that was selling massive quantities of the Cocktail soundtrack which had both Kokomo and Don't Worry Be Happy as lead singles. The actual Beach Boys in the process of actually trying to make an album yet again dropped the ball and couldn't cobble together enough original material to fill up an album-length release, hence little to no "original" new, fresh songs.

The actual album of note that would count as the next honest "original" album was Summer In Paradise when they brought Melcher back in to hopefully carry with him the same magic that produced Kokomo. It didn't translate into success.

True but wouldnt the actual Beach Boys at this point include Brian? His contribution of 'In My Car' didnt do a lot to boost the overall content of the Album. I suppose Landy was calling the shots here, but a Still Cruisin, filled out with some solid BW tracks might have been an interesting turn.
So if the gist of the statement, is that the Beach Boys were incapable of delivering a full album at the time, should we include Brian in that, or keep him seperate?

[Emily]

This is the original John Phillips demo.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NAuqngA9CuM

Mike and Terry Melcher added the chorus, "Aruba, Jamaica, ooh I want to take you..." and changed "that's where we used to go" to "that's where we wanna go."

Nice find!

It's now been removed from YouTube! Tin foil hats at the ready....

Boo. I wanted to hear it.

Is this the same one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8JqzFg1OGs

Don't know if it's the same but it works for me. Thank you.
I'm surprised how similar it is. I didn't expect the melody of the chorus to already be in there, though not part of the chorus in the original. It's quite nice. The wistful mood appeals to me a bit more, but clearly isn't hit material.
Basically, I like the verses on the original better, but the chorus and bridge added on the Beach Boys version add a lot of life and beauty.

[HeyJude]

Anyone know if "Kokomo" was an analog or digital recording? Was Melcher using digital in 1988?

I've always felt this song might sound better sonically with a remix, with less reverb and processing. A "dry" remix might sound really interesting.

Are the multitracks (whether analog or digital) in BRI's vault?

[c-man]

How much is known about Mike's part in the creation of this tune? How much was written by the time he got involved ?

I count 161 words in The Beach Boys' version of "Kokomo" (not counting repeats of the chorus hook line and "bridge" part sung by Carl).
Comparing the lyrics of the two versions, I count 51 words that appear in both (aside from isolated instances of common words like "a" - I only count such words when they appear in phrases such as "a steel drum band" that appear in both versions). Therefore, we can say that 51 of the 161 words were penned by John Phillips and/or Scott McKenzie. Mike has credited Terry Melcher with the "bridge" (sung by Carl), which is 27 words. That means Mike penned 83 words, or 52% of the lyrics if you round up. Melcher wrote 17% of the lyrics if you round up. Musically, it's a bit harder to define, but we could at least say that Melcher composed the 17% that accompany his lyrics, and Mike composed the notes that accompany the 13% of the lyrics from the chorus hook line, plus a few lines here and there that he changed melodically from Phillip's original.

   

I'm going to modify what I wrote above about the authorship of the music - It's not completely accurate to say Terry Melcher only composed 17% of the music, and Mike 13%, based on the percentage of lyrics that their musical contributions accompanied...because (and I'm surprised no one else has pointed this out!), the same music repeats for all the verses, so it's probably somewhat closer to accurate to say John Phillips (maybe with Scott McKenzie), Mike, and Terry each came up with about a third of the music in The Beach Boys' version. Phillips wrote the verse music, Mike wrote the chorus music, and Terry wrote the "bridge" music (which I would actually call the second half of the chorus, with Mike's "Aruba, Jamaica" hook being the first half). If you charted it all out bar-by-bar, it would probably be about equal for each section one time. As for Scott McKenzie, I wonder if maybe he just wrote the bridge in the original version, which of course wasn't used in the BB's version, but legally he had to be included in the credit and royalty split with the others. Just a theory.

Anyways, the material that survives from the JP original seems to be about 31.5% of the words and about 33% of the music. What Mike came up with accounts for about 51.5% of the words and 33% of the music. And what Terry added amounts to about 17% of the words and the final 33% of the music.

[Emily]

How much is known about Mike's part in the creation of this tune? How much was written by the time he got involved ?

I count 161 words in The Beach Boys' version of "Kokomo" (not counting repeats of the chorus hook line and "bridge" part sung by Carl).
Comparing the lyrics of the two versions, I count 51 words that appear in both (aside from isolated instances of common words like "a" - I only count such words when they appear in phrases such as "a steel drum band" that appear in both versions). Therefore, we can say that 51 of the 161 words were penned by John Phillips and/or Scott McKenzie. Mike has credited Terry Melcher with the "bridge" (sung by Carl), which is 27 words. That means Mike penned 83 words, or 52% of the lyrics if you round up. Melcher wrote 17% of the lyrics if you round up. Musically, it's a bit harder to define, but we could at least say that Melcher composed the 17% that accompany his lyrics, and Mike composed the notes that accompany the 13% of the lyrics from the chorus hook line, plus a few lines here and there that he changed melodically from Phillip's original.

   

I'm going to modify what I wrote above about the authorship of the music - It's not completely accurate to say Terry Melcher only composed 17% of the music, and Mike 13%, based on the percentage of lyrics that their musical contributions accompanied...because (and I'm surprised no one else has pointed this out!), the same music repeats for all the verses, so it's probably somewhat closer to accurate to say John Phillips (maybe with Scott McKenzie), Mike, and Terry each came up with about a third of the music in The Beach Boys' version. Phillips wrote the verse music, Mike wrote the chorus music, and Terry wrote the "bridge" music (which I would actually call the second half of the chorus, with Mike's "Aruba, Jamaica" hook being the first half). If you charted it all out bar-by-bar, it would probably be about equal for each section one time. As for Scott McKenzie, I wonder if maybe he just wrote the bridge in the original version, which of course wasn't used in the BB's version, but legally he had to be included in the credit and royalty split with the others. Just a theory.

Anyways, the material that survives from the JP original seems to be about 31.5% of the words and about 33% of the music. What Mike came up with accounts for about 51.5% of the words and 33% of the music. And what Terry added amounts to about 17% of the words and the final 33% of the music.

It sounds to me like the chorus music is already in there. It's a theme throughout the original, starting with the intro.

[Lonely Summer]

Of course, "Help Me Rhonda" features Al on lead, and it's highly arguable that Brian's falsetto part in the chorus of "I Get Around" is what clinched its #1 status.

But, really, why do you folks simply insist on beating the Mike/Brian thing to death? You just need to accept the fact that within a year of their first wave of success there was a rift between the two of them that has persisted ever since, and that Brian constantly sought others to collaborate with as a result. Mike resents this on many levels, and once Brian passed into/through his "psychedelicate" stage he's been looking for leverage with as much relentlessness as his work ethic.

Carl's versatility as a lead vocalist is unsurpassed, and, except for a slump in the 15 Big Ones-Love You period, was the hidden anchor of the band from 1967 onwards. And it is absolutely true again that "Kokomo" would not have gotten close to #1 without his stellar performance. Mike should give credit to his late cousin every time he celebrates the success of this song.

Absolutely. Carl was the unsung hero of the band - as a singer, and as a person. Kept those guys together much longer than they might have otherwise. Maybe instead of complaining in every interview about how much dope Brian and Dennis took, he could talk about how Carl kept a cool head and was quality control for the touring band.

[c-man]

How much is known about Mike's part in the creation of this tune? How much was written by the time he got involved ?

I count 161 words in The Beach Boys' version of "Kokomo" (not counting repeats of the chorus hook line and "bridge" part sung by Carl).
Comparing the lyrics of the two versions, I count 51 words that appear in both (aside from isolated instances of common words like "a" - I only count such words when they appear in phrases such as "a steel drum band" that appear in both versions). Therefore, we can say that 51 of the 161 words were penned by John Phillips and/or Scott McKenzie. Mike has credited Terry Melcher with the "bridge" (sung by Carl), which is 27 words. That means Mike penned 83 words, or 52% of the lyrics if you round up. Melcher wrote 17% of the lyrics if you round up. Musically, it's a bit harder to define, but we could at least say that Melcher composed the 17% that accompany his lyrics, and Mike composed the notes that accompany the 13% of the lyrics from the chorus hook line, plus a few lines here and there that he changed melodically from Phillip's original.

   

I'm going to modify what I wrote above about the authorship of the music - It's not completely accurate to say Terry Melcher only composed 17% of the music, and Mike 13%, based on the percentage of lyrics that their musical contributions accompanied...because (and I'm surprised no one else has pointed this out!), the same music repeats for all the verses, so it's probably somewhat closer to accurate to say John Phillips (maybe with Scott McKenzie), Mike, and Terry each came up with about a third of the music in The Beach Boys' version. Phillips wrote the verse music, Mike wrote the chorus music, and Terry wrote the "bridge" music (which I would actually call the second half of the chorus, with Mike's "Aruba, Jamaica" hook being the first half). If you charted it all out bar-by-bar, it would probably be about equal for each section one time. As for Scott McKenzie, I wonder if maybe he just wrote the bridge in the original version, which of course wasn't used in the BB's version, but legally he had to be included in the credit and royalty split with the others. Just a theory.

Anyways, the material that survives from the JP original seems to be about 31.5% of the words and about 33% of the music. What Mike came up with accounts for about 51.5% of the words and 33% of the music. And what Terry added amounts to about 17% of the words and the final 33% of the music.

It sounds to me like the chorus music is already in there. It's a theme throughout the original, starting with the intro.

Hmmm...I'm not hearin' it. The beat may be the same (albeit slower), but that melodic hookline sung to the words of "Aruba, Jamaica, etc." isn't.

[guitarfool2002]

How much is known about Mike's part in the creation of this tune? How much was written by the time he got involved ?

I count 161 words in The Beach Boys' version of "Kokomo" (not counting repeats of the chorus hook line and "bridge" part sung by Carl).
Comparing the lyrics of the two versions, I count 51 words that appear in both (aside from isolated instances of common words like "a" - I only count such words when they appear in phrases such as "a steel drum band" that appear in both versions). Therefore, we can say that 51 of the 161 words were penned by John Phillips and/or Scott McKenzie. Mike has credited Terry Melcher with the "bridge" (sung by Carl), which is 27 words. That means Mike penned 83 words, or 52% of the lyrics if you round up. Melcher wrote 17% of the lyrics if you round up. Musically, it's a bit harder to define, but we could at least say that Melcher composed the 17% that accompany his lyrics, and Mike composed the notes that accompany the 13% of the lyrics from the chorus hook line, plus a few lines here and there that he changed melodically from Phillip's original.

  

I'm going to modify what I wrote above about the authorship of the music - It's not completely accurate to say Terry Melcher only composed 17% of the music, and Mike 13%, based on the percentage of lyrics that their musical contributions accompanied...because (and I'm surprised no one else has pointed this out!), the same music repeats for all the verses, so it's probably somewhat closer to accurate to say John Phillips (maybe with Scott McKenzie), Mike, and Terry each came up with about a third of the music in The Beach Boys' version. Phillips wrote the verse music, Mike wrote the chorus music, and Terry wrote the "bridge" music (which I would actually call the second half of the chorus, with Mike's "Aruba, Jamaica" hook being the first half). If you charted it all out bar-by-bar, it would probably be about equal for each section one time. As for Scott McKenzie, I wonder if maybe he just wrote the bridge in the original version, which of course wasn't used in the BB's version, but legally he had to be included in the credit and royalty split with the others. Just a theory.

Anyways, the material that survives from the JP original seems to be about 31.5% of the words and about 33% of the music. What Mike came up with accounts for about 51.5% of the words and 33% of the music. And what Terry added amounts to about 17% of the words and the final 33% of the music.

I just have a question or two that stuck out to me as I read this, keeping in mind I posted earlier what Andrew Doe reported about Mike's writing credit on Kokomo, which at that time was "Mike wrote very little of the lyric":

Phillips and Melcher passed away over a decade ago, and McKenzie in 2012.

Where is the information coming from when it involves researching and calculating specific percentages of credit, is this info coming from Mike directly, is this part of a project, etc?

And the follow up question is - Why is there a call for such detailed breakdowns of Kokomo's writing process in the first place? It was a John Phillips song that got doctored up and rearranged, with Mike adding the "Aruba Jamaica..." part, unless he's saying he wrote the chord changes and melody too.

[Emily]

How much is known about Mike's part in the creation of this tune? How much was written by the time he got involved ?

I count 161 words in The Beach Boys' version of "Kokomo" (not counting repeats of the chorus hook line and "bridge" part sung by Carl).
Comparing the lyrics of the two versions, I count 51 words that appear in both (aside from isolated instances of common words like "a" - I only count such words when they appear in phrases such as "a steel drum band" that appear in both versions). Therefore, we can say that 51 of the 161 words were penned by John Phillips and/or Scott McKenzie. Mike has credited Terry Melcher with the "bridge" (sung by Carl), which is 27 words. That means Mike penned 83 words, or 52% of the lyrics if you round up. Melcher wrote 17% of the lyrics if you round up. Musically, it's a bit harder to define, but we could at least say that Melcher composed the 17% that accompany his lyrics, and Mike composed the notes that accompany the 13% of the lyrics from the chorus hook line, plus a few lines here and there that he changed melodically from Phillip's original.

  

I'm going to modify what I wrote above about the authorship of the music - It's not completely accurate to say Terry Melcher only composed 17% of the music, and Mike 13%, based on the percentage of lyrics that their musical contributions accompanied...because (and I'm surprised no one else has pointed this out!), the same music repeats for all the verses, so it's probably somewhat closer to accurate to say John Phillips (maybe with Scott McKenzie), Mike, and Terry each came up with about a third of the music in The Beach Boys' version. Phillips wrote the verse music, Mike wrote the chorus music, and Terry wrote the "bridge" music (which I would actually call the second half of the chorus, with Mike's "Aruba, Jamaica" hook being the first half). If you charted it all out bar-by-bar, it would probably be about equal for each section one time. As for Scott McKenzie, I wonder if maybe he just wrote the bridge in the original version, which of course wasn't used in the BB's version, but legally he had to be included in the credit and royalty split with the others. Just a theory.

Anyways, the material that survives from the JP original seems to be about 31.5% of the words and about 33% of the music. What Mike came up with accounts for about 51.5% of the words and 33% of the music. And what Terry added amounts to about 17% of the words and the final 33% of the music.

It sounds to me like the chorus music is already in there. It's a theme throughout the original, starting with the intro.

Hmmm...I'm not hearin' it. The beat may be the same (albeit slower), but that melodic hookline sung to the words of "Aruba, Jamaica, etc." isn't.

Different ears I guess. I hear the same 8 bars with the same structure and progression. Put the intros against each other. Then listen to the original intro against that section of the chorus. The cover is more elaborate, for sure; more filled out.