Mike's contribution to Kokomo

[Emily]

I bet neither of you have 4 songs that went to #1 either.    I could be wrong.

Two of which were won in court. Under, now, questionable pretences.

You mean the allegations of an admitted perjurer?

I assume he means Rocky.
Wait, go back - who is the admitted perjurer?

Ha! That's right! Short memory. lol

[MrRobinsonsFather]

I have to admit that I prefer the finished version as the JF rendition was incomplete... ... ...at least by comparison.  Carl saves the song from being the cheese platter you suggest it is OSD.  But w/o him it just doesn't work anywhere near as well.  Check out the live disc from the 50th anniversary tour.  Sorry.  THAT version is nowhere near as good.  [And that was with the surviving Beach Boys.]

It's why the Good Vibrations performance from last weekend was so shockingly good/different.  Jeff Foskett NEVER sounded THAT good...ever.  Not even once.

NOBODY can 'do' the  Carl 'sound'...not even Brian.

Nobody can though I feel Christopher Cross comes the closest to that sound.
Here's Christopher filling in Carl's part
https://youtu.be/SsmGtwtwh9E

[Lonely Summer]

Now wait a minute....while Brian and Landy were putting out a big turkey of an album in 1988, Mike  had a worldwide #1 record. If anyone knows how to make a hit record with Brian, it's Mike (paraphrasing the man himself).





 

[Don Malcolm]

Of course, "Help Me Rhonda" features Al on lead, and it's highly arguable that Brian's falsetto part in the chorus of "I Get Around" is what clinched its #1 status.

But, really, why do you folks simply insist on beating the Mike/Brian thing to death? You just need to accept the fact that within a year of their first wave of success there was a rift between the two of them that has persisted ever since, and that Brian constantly sought others to collaborate with as a result. Mike resents this on many levels, and once Brian passed into/through his "psychedelicate" stage he's been looking for leverage with as much relentlessness as his work ethic.

Carl's versatility as a lead vocalist is unsurpassed, and, except for a slump in the 15 Big Ones-Love You period, was the hidden anchor of the band from 1967 onwards. And it is absolutely true again that "Kokomo" would not have gotten close to #1 without his stellar performance. Mike should give credit to his late cousin every time he celebrates the success of this song.

[mabewa]

Now wait a minute....while Brian and Landy were putting out a big turkey of an album in 1988, Mike  had a worldwide #1 record. If anyone knows how to make a hit record with Brian, it's Mike (paraphrasing the man himself).





 

Hmmm...  well first, as this thread shows, much of the song wasn't written by the band members of all.  Also, that 'big turkey' of an album got pretty stellar reviews and charted not much lower than the BB's album that contained the single you're talking about.  It also charted much better than the next BB's album... and now both BB's albums are out of print...  while the 'big turkey' has been re-released in deluxe format.

[Cam Mott]

Re. Kokomo
Mike:   Here's what happened with "Kokomo." The verses and the verse lyric was written by John Phillips of the Mamas and the Papas. He wrote "Off the Florida keys, there's a place called Kokomo, that's where we used to go to get away from it all." I said, "Hold on. We used to go sounds like an old guy lamenting his misspent youth." So I just changed the tense there. "That's where you want to go to get away from it all." So that was the verse. And it was very lovely. But it didn't have such a groove, I didn't feel.

So I came up with the chorus part: "Aruba, Jamaica, ooo, I want to take you to Bermuda, Bahama, come on, pretty mama. Key Largo, Montego..." That's me, the chorus and the words to the chorus was Mike Love. The verse was John Phillips. The bridge, where it goes, "Ooo, I want to take you down to Kokomo, we'll get there fast and we can take it slow. That's where you want to go, down to Kokomo," that's Terry Melcher. Terry Melcher produced the Byrds and Paul Revere & the Raiders, very successful producer. But he actually produced that song and he wrote that bridge part, which Carl Wilson sang beautifully. And I sang the rest of it. I sang the chorus and the verses on that particular song.

I don't know what Scott MacKenzie's involvement was, I honestly don't, because all I know is John Phillips, Terry Melcher, and myself put that song together, all those different elements.

Songfacts:   But was it at one sitting, or was it in different places and different times?

Mike:   Terry was in the studio doing a track with a demo, because we were asked to do the song for the soundtrack of the movie Cocktail, featuring Tom Cruise. So we were asked by the director to come up with a song for this part of the movie where Tom Cruise goes from a bartender in New York to Jamaica. So that's where I came up with the "Aruba, Jamaica" idea, that part.

So Terry was in the studio doing the track and they didn't have the chorus yet. They just had a certain amount of bars, but there was nothing going on there. I said, "Well, here's what I want to do." And I remember I had told them about the part before. But he said, "Uh huh. How does it go again?" So I literally, over the phone - he was in the studio and I was on the phone - sang [deadpan slow recitation]: "Aruba, Jamaica, ooo, I want to take you." So he's writing that down, and I'm singing it in the scene, the notes, and the timing of it in tempo to the track.

So in other words, no, we didn't sit down at one time together. It came together in sections. But Terry did a great job of putting it together. It went to #1. That song was #1 for like 8 or 10 weeks in Australia.


Re. HMR

Songfacts:   Are there other examples of songs where you came up with the lyrics first before music was put to them?

Mike:   "Fun, Fun, Fun," "Do It Again," sometimes I would write a lyric because Brian didn't have anything there. Maybe he had a chorus idea. And that was the case in "Help Me, Rhonda." I would come up with the lyrics to help finish off and complete the song.


Re. IGA

Songfacts:   Well, Mike, it's been a treat to talk to you and hear about songwriting from your perspective. I don't think you get nearly enough respect as a songwriter, so I'm glad that we could just take this time and chat about songs.

Mike:   Well, I appreciate it. The problem is, my uncle Murry administrated the publishing, and he didn't give me credit for songs that I wrote and sang every word to. Like, for instance, I wrote every word of "California Girls." But I had to go to court to establish my authorship and prove that, in fact, I did write those songs. And that wasn't the only one. "I Get Around" - I came up with "Round, round, get around, I get around," that hook. And wrote the preponderance of the lyrics. But I wasn't credited. So it gave people a disproportionate view of who was responsible for what. So that was the major reason for not getting, as you say, credit for what I actually contributed to.

http://www.songfacts.com/blog/interviews/mike_love_of_the_beach_boys/


Cam: I think a big problem is a long history of some claiming Mike takes more credit than he ever actually does/has and then they defame him (imo) by criticizing him for taking their trumped version of credit taking when he doesn't.

(cue WIBN claims)

[Robbie Mac]

So why did he wait almost 30 years, Cam? Why didn't he go to Murry when Murry was alive?

[Cam Mott]

So why did he wait almost 30 years, Cam? Why didn't he go to Murry when Murry was alive?

He went to his co-writer who was his Producer who was also a Publisher who assured him it would be fixed.  He waited for 30 years for the same reason Brian did I suppose, Rob.

[Rocky Raccoon]

I have to admit that I prefer the finished version as the JF rendition was incomplete... ... ...at least by comparison.  Carl saves the song from being the cheese platter you suggest it is OSD.  But w/o him it just doesn't work anywhere near as well.  Check out the live disc from the 50th anniversary tour.  Sorry.  THAT version is nowhere near as good.  [And that was with the surviving Beach Boys.]

It's why the Good Vibrations performance from last weekend was so shockingly good/different.  Jeff Foskett NEVER sounded THAT good...ever.  Not even once.

NOBODY can 'do' the  Carl 'sound'...not even Brian.

Nobody can though I feel Christopher Cross comes the closest to that sound.
Here's Christopher filling in Carl's part
https://youtu.be/SsmGtwtwh9E

I think I actually read somewhere that Christopher Cross was Brian's first choice for the role Jeff played on his first solo tour.

[Robbie Mac]

So why did he wait almost 30 years, Cam? Why didn't he go to Murry when Murry was alive?

He went to his co-writer who was his Producer who was also a Publisher who assured him it would be fixed.  He waited for 30 years for the same reason Brian did I suppose, Rob.

He could have also gone to Murry, you know. Mike wasn't afraid to punch Murry out.

[Cam Mott]

So why did he wait almost 30 years, Cam? Why didn't he go to Murry when Murry was alive?

He went to his co-writer who was his Producer who was also a Publisher who assured him it would be fixed.  He waited for 30 years for the same reason Brian did I suppose, Rob.

He could have also gone to Murry, you know. Mike wasn't afraid to punch Murry out.

So could Brian.  I'm guessing after 1969 they both assumed there was nothing to be done.

[guitarfool2002]

Now wait a minute....while Brian and Landy were putting out a big turkey of an album in 1988, Mike  had a worldwide #1 record. If anyone knows how to make a hit record with Brian, it's Mike (paraphrasing the man himself).





 

Hmmm...  well first, as this thread shows, much of the song wasn't written by the band members of all.  Also, that 'big turkey' of an album got pretty stellar reviews and charted not much lower than the BB's album that contained the single you're talking about.  It also charted much better than the next BB's album... and now both BB's albums are out of print...  while the 'big turkey' has been re-released in deluxe format.

The BB's "album" in question wasn't even a full album, it was a collection of previous releases and soundtrack material that Capitol put together to sell Kokomo on an album under their own label rather than the label that was selling massive quantities of the Cocktail soundtrack which had both Kokomo and Don't Worry Be Happy as lead singles. The actual Beach Boys in the process of actually trying to make an album yet again dropped the ball and couldn't cobble together enough original material to fill up an album-length release, hence little to no "original" new, fresh songs.

The actual album of note that would count as the next honest "original" album was Summer In Paradise when they brought Melcher back in to hopefully carry with him the same magic that produced Kokomo. It didn't translate into success.

[Emily]

So why did he wait almost 30 years, Cam? Why didn't he go to Murry when Murry was alive?

He went to his co-writer who was his Producer who was also a Publisher who assured him it would be fixed.  He waited for 30 years for the same reason Brian did I suppose, Rob.

He could have also gone to Murry, you know. Mike wasn't afraid to punch Murry out.

Actually, until 1964, when the problem had already occurred, Brian didn't have the legal status to do anything.
And, as his cousin, I should think Mike would have known and understood that it was difficult for Brian to challenge Murry and Mike should have tried to avoid putting Brian in that position.

[Gerry]

You know I'm wondering if Mike waited so long regarding the song writing credits was because he didn't want to ruin his relationship with Brian regarding the possibility of still writing together. Once Kokomo hit, Mike may have figured he didn't need Brian anymore, hence the lawsuit.

[Moon Dawg]

I bet neither of you have 4 songs that went to #1 either.    I could be wrong.

Thanks for making my point, again.  I didn't have that cousin.  Unless you think it was the Atlas.  In that case, shame on me.  

Yes, they were a great team, one of the all time best, and lucky to have each other on three of those #1s.

I will agree that at times they were lucky to have each other. Does not mean they are creative equals, or that Brian needed Mike in any way shape or form approximating as much as Mike needed Brian.

You can talk about chart success that Brian and Mike had together all you want, but the indisputable fact is that the list of songs that Brian wrote (without Mike) that are emotionally impactful and moving to the listener, compared to the list of songs that Mike wrote (without Brian) that are emotionally impactful and moving to the listener, is very, very, very lopsided favoring Brian.

Brian's music, even sans Mike's contributions, connects with listeners in a VERY special emotional way. Not all of it, there are some clunkers, but in a general sense this is true. The same, by and large, with some exceptions but not many, cannot be said for Mike's music without Brian. Not meant as an insult, it's just a fact that needs to be said if one is to look at the two guys' talents (which they both have in vastly unequal measure).

Brian follows the Muse
Mike follows the Money
Great team. Brian brought Michael into some of the best, most creative music ever. Mike helped put some dollars in Brian's wallet, with accessible lyrics, good hooks and relentless touring.

  You hit the nail on the head Juice. I think what Mike did for "Kokomo" was similar to he did with Brian.

[Cool Cool Water]

You know I'm wondering if Mike waited so long regarding the song writing credits was because he didn't want to ruin his relationship with Brian regarding the possibility of still writing together. Once Kokomo hit, Mike may have figured he didn't need Brian anymore, hence the lawsuit.

Maybe.

[Lee Marshall]

I don't think so.

 Timing.  It was all about the timing...and who was available at that time to answer the claims, the allegations and such.  That's why the whole legal thing has always smelled of something other than truth and honesty.  Timing.

[obscurereference]

This is the original John Phillips demo.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NAuqngA9CuM

Mike and Terry Melcher added the chorus, "Aruba, Jamaica, ooh I want to take you..." and changed "that's where we used to go" to "that's where we wanna go."

Nice find!

It's now been removed from YouTube! Tin foil hats at the ready....

[mabewa]

Now wait a minute....while Brian and Landy were putting out a big turkey of an album in 1988, Mike  had a worldwide #1 record. If anyone knows how to make a hit record with Brian, it's Mike (paraphrasing the man himself).





 

Hmmm...  well first, as this thread shows, much of the song wasn't written by the band members of all.  Also, that 'big turkey' of an album got pretty stellar reviews and charted not much lower than the BB's album that contained the single you're talking about.  It also charted much better than the next BB's album... and now both BB's albums are out of print...  while the 'big turkey' has been re-released in deluxe format.

The BB's "album" in question wasn't even a full album, it was a collection of previous releases and soundtrack material that Capitol put together to sell Kokomo on an album under their own label rather than the label that was selling massive quantities of the Cocktail soundtrack which had both Kokomo and Don't Worry Be Happy as lead singles. The actual Beach Boys in the process of actually trying to make an album yet again dropped the ball and couldn't cobble together enough original material to fill up an album-length release, hence little to no "original" new, fresh songs.

The actual album of note that would count as the next honest "original" album was Summer In Paradise when they brought Melcher back in to hopefully carry with him the same magic that produced Kokomo. It didn't translate into success.

Good point...  by that standard, Brian's contemporary album was massively more successful by every standard.

I'm not one of these Mike vs. Brian guys, but I do feel that comparing Kokomo to Brian Wilson (the album) is like comparing apples to oranges. 

[Cam Mott]

So why did he wait almost 30 years, Cam? Why didn't he go to Murry when Murry was alive?

He went to his co-writer who was his Producer who was also a Publisher who assured him it would be fixed.  He waited for 30 years for the same reason Brian did I suppose, Rob.

He could have also gone to Murry, you know. Mike wasn't afraid to punch Murry out.

Actually, until 1964, when the problem had already occurred, Brian didn't have the legal status to do anything.
And, as his cousin, I should think Mike would have known and understood that it was difficult for Brian to challenge Murry and Mike should have tried to avoid putting Brian in that position.

If I remember the LA Times articles about Brian's suit against Irving Music et al right, Brian thought he was a partner in the SOT publishing back then (though it turned out later it wasn't legal) which may be one reason Mike went to Brian. I'm assuming Brian asked Mike to write to be published by SOT and Brian was also their producer.

I suggest that the Brian Mike actually knew back then was much different than the image we project on Brian from now which would explain why Mike had confidence in taking it to Brian and why Brian was able to get so many people to do so much. And I suspect the Mike that Brian actually knew was much different then the image we project back on him from now. Who knows, anyway Mike took it to Brian.

Anyway I thought the timing issue was settled by newspaper accounts. 30 years after the fact, some lawyers brought the plan of suing Irving to Brian, those lawyers recruited Mike to help them in the suit by promising Mike restitution of a third or 30% of Brian's potential settlement which was projected at $200 mil but landed at $10 mil. Brian's team won but didn't pay Mike as promised and Mike sued.  Mike has said in some interview that he didn't know or think there was any way of getting restitution for those 30 years until Brian's lawyers came to him with this plan to sue Irving.  Something like that.

 

[c-man]

How much is known about Mike's part in the creation of this tune? How much was written by the time he got involved ?

I count 161 words in The Beach Boys' version of "Kokomo" (not counting repeats of the chorus hook line and "bridge" part sung by Carl).
Comparing the lyrics of the two versions, I count 51 words that appear in both (aside from isolated instances of common words like "a" - I only count such words when they appear in phrases such as "a steel drum band" that appear in both versions). Therefore, we can say that 51 of the 161 words were penned by John Phillips and/or Scott McKenzie. Mike has credited Terry Melcher with the "bridge" (sung by Carl), which is 27 words. That means Mike penned 83 words, or 52% of the lyrics if you round up. Melcher wrote 17% of the lyrics if you round up. Musically, it's a bit harder to define, but we could at least say that Melcher composed the 17% that accompany his lyrics, and Mike composed the notes that accompany the 13% of the lyrics from the chorus hook line, plus a few lines here and there that he changed melodically from Phillip's original.

   

[clack]

That whole Brian/Mike/Murry credit dynamic is still a mystery, to be explained (I've been assured by one in the know) in Mike's book. It has never made sense to me why, for instance, Mike would trust that he would receive credit for writing the lyrics to Calfornia Girls after being denied credit for I Get Around ( and many other songs).

[CosmicDancer]

I don't particularly enjoy Kokomo and am not a Mike apologist, but I honestly don't think that Kokomo is as big a hit as it became without Mike's contribution, no matter how small it may have been.  The John Phillips original is a nice little tune with nothing there to hang your hat on and I don't feel like there is any hit potential in his demo version.  Cheesy as it may be, Mike's parts are the hook and along with the Carl sung Melcher written part, make the song as catchy as it is.  Again, I don't love the song, but I can't deny that it's catchy and can see why it was a hit at that particular time.  I'm just saying, we can rag on Mike for Kokomo's existence and claim that he didn't even contribute that much to the song that he uses to validate his artistic merit, but in the end, it's my opinion that the song isn't the hit that it was without Mike's involvement. 

For the record, like most level headed fans, I can see Mike as both the good and bad in Mike in the grand scheme of things, but as I said earlier, I'm no Mike apologist.  I'm just calling it like I see it in this particular case.

[HeyJude]

So I came up with the chorus part: "Aruba, Jamaica, ooo, I want to take you to Bermuda, Bahama, come on, pretty mama. Key Largo, Montego..." That's me, the chorus and the words to the chorus was Mike Love.

I always love it when Mike refers to himself in the third person. That's the sort of stuff where I always wonder if Mike knows how that sounds to *others*.

As for "Kokomo", a lot of fan debates have always come up regarding the degree to which Mike touts the song. My opinion is that I think he really does think it's as brilliant as anything the Beach Boys ever released. Nobody would begrudge someone being grateful and proud of a #1 hit. But I think Mike thinks the song is effing *brilliant*, but he thinks so because it was successful, not because of the composition itself so much.

But, and this is not a perfect analogy, does anybody think Paul McCartney would ever try to suggest that "Coming Up" or "Pipes of Peace" are as significant musically or career-wise as "Hey Jude" or "Penny Lane", etc.?

Some 60s artists continued to regularly (or occasionally) get the odd hit single into the 80s. Much like most of the BBs will tell you that "Endless Summer" was a great help to their career, I'm sure they will tend to also say that "Kokomo" was a great shot in the arm.

Mike is a numbers guy, a stats/charts guy (unless he needs to minimize the success of the TWGMTR album, for some reason), and he talks about "Kokomo" all the time because it was a #1 hit, not because he thinks it's compositionally their best song or a good *record*. You don't see Mike instigating conversations about "Chasin' the Sky" or "Lahaina Aloha" or even "Aren't You Glad" or "This Whole World." Look at Mike's reaction in the 1989 "Endless Summer" show where Brian mentions "Looking Back with Love" and Mike acts like Brian just gave away a nuclear secret or something. If that same album had hit #1, Mike would have been talking about it all the time during the 80s and to this day.

[CenturyDeprived]

So I came up with the chorus part: "Aruba, Jamaica, ooo, I want to take you to Bermuda, Bahama, come on, pretty mama. Key Largo, Montego..." That's me, the chorus and the words to the chorus was Mike Love.

I always love it when Mike refers to himself in the third person. That's the sort of stuff where I always wonder if Mike knows how that sounds to *others*.

As for "Kokomo", a lot of fan debates have always come up regarding the degree to which Mike touts the song. My opinion is that I think he really does think it's as brilliant as anything the Beach Boys ever released. Nobody would begrudge someone being grateful and proud of a #1 hit. But I think Mike thinks the song is effing *brilliant*, but he thinks so because it was successful, not because of the composition itself so much.

But, and this is not a perfect analogy, does anybody think Paul McCartney would ever try to suggest that "Coming Up" or "Pipes of Peace" are as significant musically or career-wise as "Hey Jude" or "Penny Lane", etc.?

Some 60s artists continued to regularly (or occasionally) get the odd hit single into the 80s. Much like most of the BBs will tell you that "Endless Summer" was a great help to their career, I'm sure they will tend to also say that "Kokomo" was a great shot in the arm.

Mike is a numbers guy, a stats/charts guy (unless he needs to minimize the success of the TWGMTR album, for some reason), and he talks about "Kokomo" all the time because it was a #1 hit, not because he thinks it's compositionally their best song or a good *record*. You don't see Mike instigating conversations about "Chasin' the Sky" or "Lahaina Aloha" or even "Aren't You Glad" or "This Whole World." Look at Mike's reaction in the 1989 "Endless Summer" show where Brian mentions "Looking Back with Love" and Mike acts like Brian just gave away a nuclear secret or something. If that same album had hit #1, Mike would have been talking about it all the time during the 80s and to this day.

I guess the crowd reaction to Kokomo has largely been so positive, for decades on end it would seem, that Mike just sees it as being of some elevated level of awesomeness, worthy of bragging about beyond what one would consider to be a rational amount. And I say that as a genuine fan of the song, and as a genuine fan and appreciator of Mike's contributions to the song (which undoubtedly improved the song from its demo origins and turned it into a hit).

I wonder if Mike would have bragged (and would continue to brag) nearly as much if the song only went to #4 or #3? I know that #1 spot really means something to him. Also, I wonder if the bragging would be nearly the level that it is if Brian had sung on the English language version, and/or if Brian had contributed songwriting-wise to the song? Something tells me possibly not.

It would be funny if Kokomo and Little Deuce Coupe were ever played back-to-back... and if Mike ever did some in-between-song Kokomo bragging, directly followed by a performance of Little Deuce Coupe (with the opening line denying he's the bragging type)