CONCERT: National Memorial Day Concert for 2016 with The Beach Boys

[guitarfool2002]

I'll rephrase what Justin posted with these links.

This is the afternoon rehearsal of Good Vibrations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfj2D52eLtk

And this is the PBS broadcast of the evening concert, GV is the opening song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF8JIoAp310

If you open both videos at the same time, play one until a certain musical beat comes up, then start the other one and sync them up manually, they line up perfectly, musically and with time-tempo-phrasing. It would be uncanny unless it was a prerecorded track that was used, and both the rehearsal and the actual broadcast used that same track. The only difference between the two is the introduction.

[Stephen W. Desper]

The fan video of the GV rehearsal from earlier that day can be put into near-perfect audio sync with the actual telecast of the concert later that night just by opening the two YouTube videos and lining them up using pause and play on YT. That's what stuck out to me, I thought two separate performances shot on video (one pro, one audience) at different times of the day would not line up perfectly unless it was a prerecorded track.

COMMENT to Guitarfool2002:  Ever hear of a click track?  What do you think each performer (including the horn players wearing headphones and the orchestra conductor) hears over their wireless in-ear headphones? The entire performance is synchronized using click tracks usually with verbal indications of changes (or verses or bridges). Therefore all the music, camera blocking, lighting changes, and (if used) fireworks, are all synchronized beat by beat to be the same. Every performer, every camera man, every lighting technician, and every mixer is hearing that click track with indications for verses and choruses. this makes each performance equal in length and in time -- to the beat. Each starts at the downbeat and by the end of the entire set, ends with each player/singer on the same last beat. Everyone is perfectly in time at all times. It does not need to be a pre-recorded track to line up perfectly because every take is started with a sync beat. How do you think mega-shows come off so integrated, so exact in timing?  How do all those fireworks at the Super Bowl seem to line-up with the musicians on stage. It's because everyone is hearing a click track over their headphones.

I've mixed shows that used click-tracks. There are pros and cons. It makes every show meet a standard for consistent performance value, but it also limits shows preventing the musicians from raising above the standard, for that once-in-a-while extremely wonderful performance. The click track prevents the musicians from connecting with their audience, but it also provides every audience with a relatively good show.  ~swd   

I just gave my students last week a lesson about the importance of playing to a click track, and practicing to one while wearing headphones during a talk about setting up and doing basic tracks for a recording. But that's not what it was about these videos, it was everything from the vocal inflections and phrasing to each and every beat and note lining up between what the afternoon audience heard at the rehearsal and captured on video and what the audiences watching the actual show on TV later that night heard on the broadcast. It was the same tracks.

COMMENT to Guitarfool2002, So what is your point?  Each show was the same?  Each could be intercut to the other?  ~swd

I can only conclude from what I heard and saw that it was the same prerecorded audio track for GV which was used and heard by the audience who saw the rehearsal, and the later audiences who saw the actual concert in DC and watched the broadcast.

COMMENT to Guitarfool2002:  Are you saying that the broadcast was primary and the live show was secondary?  That makes no sense so you must NOT be saying that. The live to an audience has to have been first. Or was the broadcast tape made first and then shown to the audience with the band and orchestra miming the entire performance. Is that what you are saying? ~swd

[Stephen W. Desper]

I'll rephrase what Justin posted with these links.

This is the afternoon rehearsal of Good Vibrations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfj2D52eLtk

And this is the PBS broadcast of the evening concert, GV is the opening song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF8JIoAp310

If you open both videos at the same time, play one until a certain musical beat comes up, then start the other one and sync them up manually, they line up perfectly, musically and with time-tempo-phrasing. It would be uncanny unless it was a prerecorded track that was used, and both the rehearsal and the actual broadcast used that same track. The only difference between the two is the introduction.

COMMENT to guitarfool2002:  So are you saying that the entire show (or its musical performances) was recorded at an earlier date with the actual performance just mimed or lip-synced? ~swd

[guitarfool2002]

I'll rephrase what Justin posted with these links.

This is the afternoon rehearsal of Good Vibrations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfj2D52eLtk

And this is the PBS broadcast of the evening concert, GV is the opening song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF8JIoAp310

If you open both videos at the same time, play one until a certain musical beat comes up, then start the other one and sync them up manually, they line up perfectly, musically and with time-tempo-phrasing. It would be uncanny unless it was a prerecorded track that was used, and both the rehearsal and the actual broadcast used that same track. The only difference between the two is the introduction.

COMMENT to guitarfool2002:  So are you saying that the entire show (or its musical performances) was recorded at an earlier date with the actual performance just mimed or lip-synced? ~swd

I have no idea what was taped or when it was taped, but both Good Vibrations videos recorded at separate times sound like exact audio duplicates, except the spoken introduction. I cannot think of a way that could suggest anything other than the audio of the performance was not "live" if they were feeding the same audio track to the crowd in the rehearsals as they fed to PBS's broadcast that night at separate performances. It is uncanny how easily two videos of separate performances can be put into sync just by using play and pause. There is no musical variation between the two audio tracks during the song.

[Stephen W. Desper]

I'll rephrase what Justin posted with these links.

This is the afternoon rehearsal of Good Vibrations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfj2D52eLtk

And this is the PBS broadcast of the evening concert, GV is the opening song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF8JIoAp310

If you open both videos at the same time, play one until a certain musical beat comes up, then start the other one and sync them up manually, they line up perfectly, musically and with time-tempo-phrasing. It would be uncanny unless it was a prerecorded track that was used, and both the rehearsal and the actual broadcast used that same track. The only difference between the two is the introduction.

COMMENT to guitarfool2002:  So are you saying that the entire show (or its musical performances) was recorded at an earlier date with the actual performance just mimed or lip-synced? ~swd

I have no idea what was taped or when it was taped, but both Good Vibrations videos recorded at separate times sound like exact audio duplicates, except the spoken introduction. I cannot think of a way that could suggest anything other than the audio of the performance was not "live" if they were feeding the same audio track to the crowd in the rehearsals as they fed to PBS's broadcast that night at separate performances. It is uncanny how easily two videos of separate performances can be put into sync just by using play and pause. There is no musical variation between the two audio tracks during the song.

COMMENT to guitarfool2002:  Doesn't that suggest the use of a click track? You saying that using a click track even professional performers, who have performed these songs for fifty years and thousands of times can't do it again and again on the same day? So if you are saying that it can't be done, then why bother placing all the mics on stage?  A few will do for the deception. At that, why bother paying for such a large orchestra when a few will do?  ~swd 

[guitarfool2002]

I'll rephrase what Justin posted with these links.

This is the afternoon rehearsal of Good Vibrations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfj2D52eLtk

And this is the PBS broadcast of the evening concert, GV is the opening song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF8JIoAp310

If you open both videos at the same time, play one until a certain musical beat comes up, then start the other one and sync them up manually, they line up perfectly, musically and with time-tempo-phrasing. It would be uncanny unless it was a prerecorded track that was used, and both the rehearsal and the actual broadcast used that same track. The only difference between the two is the introduction.

COMMENT to guitarfool2002:  So are you saying that the entire show (or its musical performances) was recorded at an earlier date with the actual performance just mimed or lip-synced? ~swd

I have no idea what was taped or when it was taped, but both Good Vibrations videos recorded at separate times sound like exact audio duplicates, except the spoken introduction. I cannot think of a way that could suggest anything other than the audio of the performance was not "live" if they were feeding the same audio track to the crowd in the rehearsals as they fed to PBS's broadcast that night at separate performances. It is uncanny how easily two videos of separate performances can be put into sync just by using play and pause. There is no musical variation between the two audio tracks during the song.

COMMENT to guitarfool2002:  Doesn't that suggest the use of a click track? ~swd

Of course it does, but couldn't it also suggest the performance was done to a prerecorded backing track rather than live? Maybe the question comes back to the old slogan "is it live or is it Memorex?"    Seriously though, it's too perfect a match otherwise I wouldn't have noticed when I first heard the rehearsal audio after hearing the broadcast audio, they sounded the same. Then the audio of both YouTube videos also lined up, I thought it was uncanny to have such a match. I could see the tempo and bpm lining up with a click even on a track with groove and tempo changes like GV, but not the individual musical performances matching as they do.

[Stephen W. Desper]

I'll rephrase what Justin posted with these links.

This is the afternoon rehearsal of Good Vibrations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfj2D52eLtk

And this is the PBS broadcast of the evening concert, GV is the opening song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF8JIoAp310

If you open both videos at the same time, play one until a certain musical beat comes up, then start the other one and sync them up manually, they line up perfectly, musically and with time-tempo-phrasing. It would be uncanny unless it was a prerecorded track that was used, and both the rehearsal and the actual broadcast used that same track. The only difference between the two is the introduction.

COMMENT to guitarfool2002:  So are you saying that the entire show (or its musical performances) was recorded at an earlier date with the actual performance just mimed or lip-synced? ~swd

I have no idea what was taped or when it was taped, but both Good Vibrations videos recorded at separate times sound like exact audio duplicates, except the spoken introduction. I cannot think of a way that could suggest anything other than the audio of the performance was not "live" if they were feeding the same audio track to the crowd in the rehearsals as they fed to PBS's broadcast that night at separate performances. It is uncanny how easily two videos of separate performances can be put into sync just by using play and pause. There is no musical variation between the two audio tracks during the song.

COMMENT to guitarfool2002:  Doesn't that suggest the use of a click track? ~swd

Of course it does, but couldn't it also suggest the performance was done to a prerecorded backing track rather than live? Maybe the question comes back to the old slogan "is it live or is it Memorex?"    Seriously though, it's too perfect a match otherwise I wouldn't have noticed when I first heard the rehearsal audio after hearing the broadcast audio, they sounded the same. Then the audio of both YouTube videos also lined up, I thought it was uncanny to have such a match. I could see the tempo and bpm lining up with a click even on a track with groove and tempo changes like GV, but not the individual musical performances matching as they do.

COMMENT to guitarfool2002:  You would be impressed at what professional and seasoned performers can do. ~swd

[Cam Mott]

Why doesn't someone ask PBS, it would be on them I presume as to how it was done and presented.

[Stephen W. Desper]

Why doesn't someone ask PBS, it would be on them I presume as to how it was done and presented.

COMMENT to Cam Mott:  I wrote to Bruce about it and waiting on his response. I'll write again tomorrow. But for now it's after one in the morning for me and I'm off to bed.  ~swd   end of line.

[guitarfool2002]

I can appreciate that and will be following suit! 

The same sync issues hold true for the rehearsal video of Sloop John B into WIBN combined with the PBS concert broadcast, I just tried it for fun and nailed the sync on "...Nassau town", then they both locked in together up to the final orchestra ritardando at the end. That was even more uncanny than GV.

Rehearsal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci4mxpH8EQo

PBS (Sloop at 7:01):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF8JIoAp310

[GhostyTMRS]

It wouldn't surprise me if they either mimed to a track or played and sang to a track, especially for a TV performance. It's more common than not. McCartney mimed to tracks when he did the Super Bowl years ago (sorry, folks. Watch closely and he muffs miming to "Hey Jude ") and Beyoncé did the same when she "sang" the National Anthem at the Super Bowl. Obviously someone like Beyoncé would have no trouble singing live but with the pressure on to make the TV broadcast perfect, it's usually up to the producer to ensure that happens....unless you're Prince and you tell everyone else what to do and insist on playing and singing live but not everyone is Prince.

[DC310]

When the rehearsal audio is laid over to the performance audio, it is identical. Not close like you'd expect from professional, seasoned musicians who have played these songs thousands of times.  Identical.

If they had played to a click, or just prerecorded instruments with live vocals, there would be some noticeable differences, in the same way that there are noticeable differences in the double tracked lead vocals in many of our favorite Beach Boys tracks.  You can watch 10 different live versions of Jeff singing Good Vibrations over the last few years and pick out slight differences in phrasing and pitch if you are paying close enough attention.

As I said earlier in this post, I doubt it was the band's choice to mime it.  It isn't a big deal that it was prerecorded.  I just wish some of the vocal processing was more transparent.  But I thought that about the C50 live release as well.

Curious to hear if Bruce offers any context for the prerecord.  Good discussion on here.

[Stephen W. Desper]

When the rehearsal audio is laid over to the performance audio, it is identical. Not close like you'd expect from professional, seasoned musicians who have played these songs thousands of times.  Identical.

If they had played to a click, or just prerecorded instruments with live vocals, there would be some noticeable differences, in the same way that there are noticeable differences in the double tracked lead vocals in many of our favorite Beach Boys tracks.  You can watch 10 different live versions of Jeff singing Good Vibrations over the last few years and pick out slight differences in phrasing and pitch if you are paying close enough attention.

As I said earlier in this post, I doubt it was the band's choice to mime it.  It isn't a big deal that it was prerecorded.  I just wish some of the vocal processing was more transparent.  But I thought that about the C50 live release as well.

Curious to hear if Bruce offers any context for the prerecord.  Good discussion on here.

COMMENT:  So the surmised conclusion is that a click track was used with pre-recorded, pitch corrected vocals. The singers mimed their parts in performance with the pre-recorded vocal tracks blended with an otherwise live performance by the orchestra and perhaps band instruments. This entire presentation was captured on camera and presented live on the air.  Fairly standard and safe, but without integrity. Glad I have my memories of more organic times.

reminds me of that BG's special . . .

OH!
~~~OOOH !
~~~~~OOOOOOH!
Staaay'n Alive.

~swd

[DC310]

Perhaps the orchestra was live, but certainly the band was playing along to a prerecorded instrumental and singing along to prerecorded vocals.  The audience (in person and broadcast) heard only the prerecorded track.

Visual example of prerecorded instrumental (watch keyboard hands) : https://youtu.be/eF8JIoAp310?t=392
Visual example of prerecorded vocal (watch Jeff on the word "nice") : https://youtu.be/eF8JIoAp310?t=541

Also you can hear Cowsill in the mix but he has no mic.

Removing any further doubt, this medley on German TV earlier this year uses the exact same prerecorded tracks, though the medley itself is different: https://youtu.be/f2uckN9U6Vo?t=498

And if anyone saw the post this morning about the BBs live on Fox, the exact same prerecord from the German TV show was used for the Wouldn't it Be Nice/I Get Around medley: http://video.foxnews.com/v/4926123898001/after-the-show-show-the-beach-boys-perform-/?playlist_id=930909787001

I'm guessing this is a way to ensure that they get a decent mix instead of relying on in house sound people for whatever show they are on to do a good job. 

[Stephen W. Desper]

Perhaps the orchestra was live, but certainly the band was playing along to a prerecorded instrumental and singing along to prerecorded vocals.  The audience (in person and broadcast) heard only the prerecorded track.

Visual example of prerecorded instrumental (watch keyboard hands) : https://youtu.be/eF8JIoAp310?t=392
Visual example of prerecorded vocal (watch Jeff on the word "nice") : https://youtu.be/eF8JIoAp310?t=541

Also you can hear Cowsill in the mix but he has no mic.

Removing any further doubt, this medley on German TV earlier this year uses the exact same prerecorded tracks, though the medley itself is different: https://youtu.be/f2uckN9U6Vo?t=498

And if anyone saw the post this morning about the BBs live on Fox, the exact same prerecord from the German TV show was used for the Wouldn't it Be Nice/I Get Around medley: http://video.foxnews.com/v/4926123898001/after-the-show-show-the-beach-boys-perform-/?playlist_id=930909787001

I'm guessing this is a way to ensure that they get a decent mix instead of relying on in house sound people for whatever show they are on to do a good job. 

  COMMENT to DC310   

The German track sounded different -- Mike not the same delivery

But otherwise, such a shame. This is one foot in the grave performing.  In the future when all of the Beach Boys and band have departed, some young robot genius will get the idea to use automatons on stage, with these tracks, to give Beach Boy fans of 2075 a good show.  The only difference between that future vision and this present display is that the robots are still human. Everything else has been displaced or replaced, Replacing the last element, the humans on stage, with animated robots is the final step to the future of what will become The Beach Boys.  Perhaps you will live to see such a show.  Maybe you will be the one to bring it into being. Who knows, maybe some day you can just buy a Mike Love, Brian Wilson, Michael Jackson, or JS Bach robot to entertain you whenever you flick the switch to on. Maybe the Love robot will have a personality selector switch -- the performing Mike -- the insulting Mike -- the asshole Mike -- the congenial Mike -- the meditative Mike -- the charming Mike. The model Brian robot will even smoke a joint with you while playing the bass guitar. The possibilities are endless.        ~swd

[guitarfool2002]

Perhaps the orchestra was live, but certainly the band was playing along to a prerecorded instrumental and singing along to prerecorded vocals.  The audience (in person and broadcast) heard only the prerecorded track.

Visual example of prerecorded instrumental (watch keyboard hands) : https://youtu.be/eF8JIoAp310?t=392
Visual example of prerecorded vocal (watch Jeff on the word "nice") : https://youtu.be/eF8JIoAp310?t=541

Also you can hear Cowsill in the mix but he has no mic.

Removing any further doubt, this medley on German TV earlier this year uses the exact same prerecorded tracks, though the medley itself is different: https://youtu.be/f2uckN9U6Vo?t=498

And if anyone saw the post this morning about the BBs live on Fox, the exact same prerecord from the German TV show was used for the Wouldn't it Be Nice/I Get Around medley: http://video.foxnews.com/v/4926123898001/after-the-show-show-the-beach-boys-perform-/?playlist_id=930909787001

I'm guessing this is a way to ensure that they get a decent mix instead of relying on in house sound people for whatever show they are on to do a good job. 

  COMMENT to DC310   

The German track sounded different -- Mike not the same delivery

But otherwise, such a shame. This is one foot in the grave performing.  In the future when all of the Beach Boys and band have departed, some young robot genius will get the idea to use automatons on stage, with these tracks, to give Beach Boy fans of 2075 a good show.  The only difference between that future vision and this present display is that the robots are still human. Everything else has been displaced or replaced, Replacing the last element, the humans on stage, with animated robots is the final step to the future of what will become The Beach Boys.  Perhaps you will live to see such a show.  Maybe you will be the one to bring it into being. Who knows, maybe some day you can just buy a Mike Love, Brian Wilson, Michael Jackson, or JS Bach robot to entertain you whenever you flick the switch to on. Maybe the Love robot will have a personality selector switch -- the performing Mike -- the insulting Mike -- the asshole Mike -- the congenial Mike -- the meditative Mike -- the charming Mike. The model Brian robot will even smoke a joint with you while playing the bass guitar. The possibilities are endless.        ~swd

What I really do not want either me or my hypothetical grandchildren decades from now to see is a "concert" that consists of anonymous backing musicians performing in front of a video screen or even a 3D hologram of a departed singer or even a band, and billed by whatever estates may exist to control such things as a legitimate concert experience.

I remember a time not long ago when a lot of purists balked at having Natalie Cole sing a duet with her deceased father, which if I recall set off a trend of sorts to have other artists follow suit. Some of the "collaborations" were actually enjoyable, but i could also see the point of the purists who didn't like to see the time and space continuum futzed with in order to sell more records.

Then in the late 90's or so, I remember a friend who was a guitar player and a big Elvis fan got to see the Elvis shows, where they had the TCB Band still led by James Burton performing live on stage while Elvis' archival live vocal tracks were fed through the mix and a video screen projected Elvis' performances behind the band on stage. I was a cynic, but after hearing how excited my friend was - and he was an Elvis fan to the core - I softened up on my opinions against such things. It was the original band, whatever surviving members were there with Burton on stage and the same guys who played the original tracks and shows, so it wasn't as bad in reality as the concept seemed to suggest. The Beach Boys started doing that too during C50 with the audio/video tributes and performances with video and audio of Carl and Dennis, and fans loved it. It worked for what they were trying to convey to the fans especially during C50.

But if there is a Beach Boys live tour 50 years from now, or a Beatles/Stones/Who/whatever tour featuring nameless players or even robots or holograms being presented as an official live concert with a full band or images of deceased band members, I will be pissed off as I'm in the rest home watching Matlock reruns under my blanket taking my food pills. Because at some point it ends, or it should end, and the legacy is whatever came before and will be carried forward. Just my two cents about the real versus manufactured concert experiences.

I also heard that Frankie Valli performs entire shows where he lip-synchs every vocal. For those diehard fans I guess that's OK if you want to be in the same room as Frankie Valli, but if you can deliver a live vocal and charge people to watch you lip-sync medleys of hits, it may be time to hang up the tux and Shure 58 and do meet and greets instead.

[Robbie Mac]

Craig, did you see the Monkees when Nez came back?

[Lonely Summer]

Stephen: There are fan videos of the rehearsals held prior to the show on the National Mall, specifically check out Good Vibrations. If you try lining that rehearsal up with the official PBS video of the evening concert, the performances seem to match perfectly

Yep.  I'm sure playing back and mime-ing a precorded track was necessary or else the band would've chosen to do it live.  I saw them live last year and the new lineup is IMHO the best sounding live touring version of this band in the last 15 years.

Not to get too forensic-y, but I enjoy the details so here I go:

Scott has that unmistakable pitch corrected sound on his solo part before the rest of group comes in: https://youtu.be/eF8JIoAp310?t=269
Also, who is singing the Ba ba ba ba ba with Mike?  Clearly the louder voice on that part isn't Mike.  I don't actually hear Mike at all singing that part, but his lips are.  It sounds like Brian E, but Brian E is miming the higher falsetto part behind Mike.  And I hear Cowsill in the GV choruses but he has no mic at this show.

COMMENT to DC310:  Here's a couple of answers that may help.  "LIVE" in broadcast terms does not necessary mean that what you are seeing on your TV tube is happening at the actual same time you view it. When a program is said to be "live" it means it was performed before a live audience in one complete pass, that it was not taken in segments and edited together to form a story or show. However live does not presuppose that some post production tweaking was not performed. For this DC show, I really do not know if it as pre-recorded live, that is, performed before an audience with cameras rolling and then broadcast at a later time, or if it was the actual real-time broadcast of a real-time performance. In any event, the show that we keep going back and viewing is certainly a performance before a live audience that is a re-play. I suspect the show was pre-recorded and then broadcast as if live into the different time zones around the United States. So let's go with that assumption.

Looking around on stage I see at least 35 to 40 microphones -- could be more. Each of these mics is feed to a splitter with one signal used for the actual live audience "house mix" or a mix done at the time of performance. The other signal, representing each microphone, is recorded on separate tracks. After the live performance the multi-track is set aside. Next the same thing has happened to the video where each camera has been recorded separately. Further, cameramen have been out in the audience during the performance taking cut-away shots of various people keeping time or dancing. These are called "reaction shots." The director then decides what camera shots will be used and intercut with which reaction shots. Thus, the video portion of the show is assembled.

Next it is put in sync with the audio tracks. The mixer now has control over every microphone (without fear of feedback) and can see what person or instrument may be in a close-up or is featured in the video that the viewer will see. The mixer can now listen to each singer and, if necessary, apply pitch correction, or just ask the performer to re-sing his part or part of his part via a punch-in. The correction may be for a line of vocal or a word. It may be to correct a missed part or a mis-sung part. Using the punch-in technique is the most natural and is the way all recording of albums is done. It is called sweetening or vocal replacement.

It's the same technique as is used in movie making called dialog replacement. You know that all movies re-record all speaking by actors and most all of the effects. Everything is contrived. Nothing is what it seems. Further, the mixer usually will feature in the sound mix (that is boost a little) whatever the video editor has featured in the picture. If it's the drums, their level is raised slightly to match the picture. If it's a person singing, that person will be boosted in the mix. You don't actually hear it, but it adds to the realism of the whole thing. You pointed out that Mike was singing, but it didn't sound like him. That may be. His actual voice may have been replaced at that point in the presentation. This is legal. Especially if you look at this DC show as a "production" much like a movie or musical. Don't look at it as a show, but as a production. In this context, ADR (automatic dialog replacement) is very much the way things are done. (( Educate yourself about ADR by view this video >>> https://vimeo.com/110213154 )).

When I worked for the Boys, and we did a TV special or part of some movie, we always went back and replaced parts of vocals, re-worked them to more of a perfect sound, and used dialog replacement techniques to our advantage. Carl especially, insisted on using dialog replacement to correct every little missed entrance or out-of-tune vocal. (( You think it was Audrey Hepburn who sang all those beautiful songs in "My Fair Lady"?  Wrong !!  Take a look >>> http://www.samefacts.com/2014/06/culture-and-civil-society/film-culture-and-civil-society/the-secret-dubbing-of-audrey-hepburn-in-my-fair-lady/ )).

What I see happening here in this thread is the "discovery" by young fans of the techniques used by film makers to produce a more perfect product. The young fans think the Beach Boys are being deceptive and cheating on their talent, but in fact, are just following along with practices that have been in vogue for decades.

When I first started working in the movie industry, one of my first Union (Hollywood Local 695)  assignments was to run "playback" for the movie Thoroughly Modern Millie, staring Julie Andrews and Carol Channing. Their singing had previously been recorded in a studio, so my job was to playback that studio track on the set as each actress sang and animated (danced) their character as per the script. Watch the entire movie on line or look at this trailer and know that I'm supplying the music cues for each music and dance scene. Especially rewarding were the playbacks for Carol Channing. (( Trailer >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCug0golA6c )) I'm telling you this so that you realize what Mike and Bruce and all that group did on this DC Memorial show was not anything new. It's been going on for decades. You-all are just discovering the techniques.

At the beginning of this thread I said what I heard was just good singing. I meant that statement within the context of sweetening. I know each Beach Boy can sing and sing with extreme talent. How many thousands of punch-in's have I done to make it sound as if they are perfect singers. Is that cheating?  Have you ever criticized the use of over-dubbing via punch-ins on a record to get a sound right?  You don't hear it. Yet not one song is recorded without using some type of correction technique. Now all of a sudden, it's something of a big deal. Sorry, but that is just the way it's done. Enjoy the music. Don't be like me who when going to the movies doesn't see a story, but sees all the technology used to tell the story. Don't fall into that trap. Don't let the technology overcome your enjoyment of the final musical product.    ~swd 

Thanks again for your comments, Mr. Desper. I do some recording myself, so I know about punch-in's and all that. Is it cheating? I don't think so (okay, a little voice in my head says 'yes it is" ). I have done vocal punch in's when the vocal was fine up to _x_ point; have done more guitar solo punch in's than i'll ever admit to, cause I'm not a lead guitarist but have had to become one the last 3 years. I figured the same was done for tv and movie presentations. Not a thing in the world wrong with that, if the goal is to give the best presentation possible.

[Stephen W. Desper]

But if there is a Beach Boys live tour 50 years from now, or a Beatles/Stones/Who/whatever tour featuring nameless players or even robots or holograms being presented as an official live concert with a full band or images of deceased band members, I will be pissed off as I'm in the rest home watching Matlock reruns under my blanket taking my food pills. Because at some point it ends, or it should end, and the legacy is whatever came before and will be carried forward. Just my two cents about the real versus manufactured concert experiences.

COMMENT:   Sorry Guitarfool2002, but it's already here -- and people are paying big $$$ to see it !!

Billed as "Live at the MGM"  >>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um-jOMvL-og

The Making Of >>>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDR3hSeQ8pk

~swd

[Rocker]

Then in the late 90's or so, I remember a friend who was a guitar player and a big Elvis fan got to see the Elvis shows, where they had the TCB Band still led by James Burton performing live on stage while Elvis' archival live vocal tracks were fed through the mix and a video screen projected Elvis' performances behind the band on stage. I was a cynic, but after hearing how excited my friend was - and he was an Elvis fan to the core - I softened up on my opinions against such things. It was the original band, whatever surviving members were there with Burton on stage and the same guys who played the original tracks and shows, so it wasn't as bad in reality as the concept seemed to suggest.

In fact, it was about 90% of the original band, maybe even more. A couple members of the Stamps (J. D. Sumner died before they started the worldwide touring) and one or two of the Sweet Inspirations had changed. But that's about it. F*cking awesome band the boy handpicked himself.
But now Jerry Scheff has quit so they had Norbert Putnam filled in for a while (whose a fantastic player and played with Elvis on some studio recordings). But if I'm not mistaken they now started doing a similar thing using musicians who weren't even born when Elvis died. Not that they are not good (at least I hope they are) but it's a shame what is done to Presley's legacy. Add to that those terrible remixing sh!t going on á la "Viva Elvis" and you don't have to wonder anymore why one of the greatest performers of the 20th century whose cultural impact is probably second to none other musician is considered a parody. And everything sanctioned by the official side. So you see, what it comes down to is: it's really just about making a quick buck.

[mabewa]

But that's not what it was about these videos, it was everything from the vocal inflections and phrasing to each and every beat and note lining up between what the afternoon audience heard at the rehearsal and captured on video and what the audiences watching the actual show on TV later that night heard on the broadcast. It was the same tracks.

It appears that way.  Going back and forth on "Good Vibrations" from the telecast to the rehearsal video focusing on Jeff's lead vocal; it's pretty clear I'm going back and forth on the same audio recording between the two.  Every inflection is there: "close my eyeess....somehow closer nooooww..." 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfj2D52eLtk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF8JIoAp310

Listening to these two recordings, it's very clear to me that much of it if not all (certainly the lead vocals) were pre-recorded.  I've watched many videos of GB being performed live by the current lineup, and while it generally sounds good, 1).  It really doesn't sound like this and B).  It's easy to hear differences in intonation, volume, etc. between any two versions.  These two versions are the same. 

Whether that's a good or bad thing for a one-off performance is another question--it's clear to me that the touring BB's really do sing live, at least most of the time.  But they aren't singing live here. 

[Tab Lloyd]

I just checked in on this thread after some time away, so here's my 2 cents. I don't doubt that Stephen Desper is a consummate pro in regards to sound technology matters and what is and has been done to sweeten the experience for all of us viewers in TV land. But sometimes too much sugar makes me feel a bit pukey...and that's the experience with this broadcast for me! There's just so much phoniness in this world that we are told to swallow....at what point do we gag and say 'enough'. I don't care if these guys are great singers, I crave the experience of a live performance, warts and all...let me have the real live experience and judge for myself. Stupid happy expressions lip synching to pre-recorded tracks just turns me off! Next you'll be telling me Neil Young does it all the time (I somehow doubt it)....