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Author Topic: CONCERT: National Memorial Day Concert for 2016 with The Beach Boys  (Read 21095 times)
Stephen W. Desper
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« on: May 30, 2016, 01:43:41 PM »

COMMENT:

You may view the Washington DC National Memorial Day Concert for 2016 at >>> http://www.pbs.org/video/2365765896/

THE BEACH BOYS segment starts at 42:00 minutes into the presentation.

Excellent production values and performance by all.
  ~swd
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 03:36:58 PM »

Great music and good show, I specially liked the orchesta sound behind... but what about robo-mikeHuh
His voice was fulled with auto-tune. You can tell all the concert was "sweetened", but his voice does not sound real... I wonder how it sounded live.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 04:02:18 PM by beacharg » Logged
Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2016, 04:23:40 PM »

Great music and good show, I specially liked the orchesta sound behind... but what about robo-mikeHuh
His voice was fulled with auto-tune. You can tell all the concert was "sweetened", but his voice does not sound real... I wonder how it sounded live.
COMMENT:  I've been to several of the Mike/Bruce shows (and of course mixed many hundreds of other shows with the full group) and this show is typical of any performance. To answer your question . . . Mike and the other band members sound the same live as in this show, which was also a live show. I seriously doubt there was any post-production sweetening or other manipulation done in the last 24 hours -- what you saw and heard was the same as if you were there.  Do you doubt its authenticity because the singing was so good and so right-on?  Remember Mike and Bruce and many others have been singing these songs in concert since the '60s. They are professional singers. And YES, it was wonderful to hear real strings and horns. It reminded me of the days when we carried violin, cello, and horn players with us on tour. It was not uncommon to have a small orchestra backing up the front instruments -- just as you saw in this DC concert. ~swd
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 04:27:29 PM by Stephen W. Desper » Logged
beatle608
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2016, 07:44:06 PM »

At least to my ears, every vocal track sounds like it has pitch correction. Even Jeff's. I don't understand the need for it as they are all fantastic singers.
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2016, 08:03:13 PM »

To my ears its sounds horrible.
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2016, 08:43:13 PM »

I listened and watched on the PBS HD feed. The sound on the Mike portion sounded like it was recorded in a tin can (no fault of Mike), and seemed to be mostly or wholly mimed (common for these types of shows). The lead vocals also sounded autotuned or otherwise relatively heavily processed (again not the fault of Mike, but ironic considering a past verbal swipe from him regarding autotune from Brian).

I don't believe Mike's shows typically sound like this. Sounds (and looks based on the miming) like they pre-recorded some stuff and in the process it was autotuned or otherwise processed.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 09:24:34 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2016, 08:50:55 PM »

Yep, I have to agree with everyone else here and unfortunately disagree with SWD. The breakdown around 46:40 is heavily pitch corrected.
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2016, 09:15:12 PM »

It appears that everyone on stage is miming to a live pre-recorded track.   Some of Cowsill's fills don't match up with the sound and I even caught a few moments where he's playing on the ride yet we hear him playing on the hi-hat.  Since it was a live televised event, maybe all parties felt it was safer to have it pre-recorded for a flawless performance.
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2016, 09:49:13 PM »

Yes on closer inspection there are many instances of things not looking as they sound.
I guess it was Joe's fault again....
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2016, 10:07:09 PM »

Yes on closer inspection there are many instances of things not looking as they sound.
I guess it was Joe's fault again....

COMMENT:  Well you-all could be right. Perhaps my casual viewing was not as precise as it could have been. I dropped Bruce a note to see what light he can shed on this issue, as I'm just as curious to know, as you are, what was done to the tape or how much was lipsynced. Upon making a more studied viewing, I can agree with the points many of you make. We shall see . . .
~swd
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2016, 10:11:39 PM »

Yes on closer inspection there are many instances of things not looking as they sound.
I guess it was Joe's fault again....

COMMENT:  Well you-all could be right. Perhaps my casual viewing was not as precise as it could have been. I dropped Bruce a note to see what light he can shed on this issue, as I'm just as curious to know, as you are, what was done to the tape or how much was lipsynced. Upon making a more studied viewing, I can agree with the points many of you make. We shall see . . .
~swd
Stephen, I personally want to thank you for magnificent contribution to not only the band we all love, this board but also to music in general. I did not mean in any way to undermine your original post!
Thanks again!
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2016, 10:19:19 PM »

As soon as I heard Foskett 'sing' the first few lines of GV, I knew there was no way that was a live vocal. Not just for the processing, but for the complete lack of ambient reverb.
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2016, 02:01:08 AM »

It appears that everyone on stage is miming to a live pre-recorded track.   Some of Cowsill's fills don't match up with the sound and I even caught a few moments where he's playing on the ride yet we hear him playing on the hi-hat.  Since it was a live televised event, maybe all parties felt it was safer to have it pre-recorded for a flawless performance.

Yep, big clue 'There Isn't A Mic In Sight On The Drum Kit'
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« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2016, 07:29:07 AM »

I can't tell if they're lipsyncing or not, but they are definitely autotuned.
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2016, 11:49:05 AM »

Great music and good show, I specially liked the orchesta sound behind... but what about robo-mikeHuh
His voice was fulled with auto-tune. You can tell all the concert was "sweetened", but his voice does not sound real... I wonder how it sounded live.
COMMENT:  I've been to several of the Mike/Bruce shows (and of course mixed many hundreds of other shows with the full group) and this show is typical of any performance. To answer your question . . . Mike and the other band members sound the same live as in this show, which was also a live show. I seriously doubt there was any post-production sweetening or other manipulation done in the last 24 hours -- what you saw and heard was the same as if you were there.  Do you doubt its authenticity because the singing was so good and so right-on?  Remember Mike and Bruce and many others have been singing these songs in concert since the '60s. They are professional singers. And YES, it was wonderful to hear real strings and horns. It reminded me of the days when we carried violin, cello, and horn players with us on tour. It was not uncommon to have a small orchestra backing up the front instruments -- just as you saw in this DC concert. ~swd

COMMENT:  After viewing the show again and again, and listening in detail, I'm going to support my first impression as stated above.

First, I have more experience, first hand experience listening to these guys sing, both in concert and in the studio, than anyone out in fan-land. I'm not boosting, just stating a fact. IMO Mike Love needs to use autotune as much as I need to use a hearing aid.  In listening to the concert I just don't hear any of the innertonational distortion that autotune introduces, even in its latest iteration. Mike Love using autotune would be like Frank Sinatra or Tony Bennett using the device. Listening and watching Mike sing in this concert, I don't see any lipsync going on. Note the end of the songs end with all on stage on the same note and beat -- lipsync is hard to end smoothly, I can tell you from experience. Listening to Mike's voice react to his distance and direction from his microphone and also how the sound character changes as his hand cups or opens around the diaphragm -- following the sound changes produced exactly. The other singers response patterns also follow as they move about the directional characteristics of the mikes in use. As far as lipsync to a pre-recorded track -- I noticed that every other string player is miked and every horn player seemed to have a mic. The drums were all close miked. I would guess that at least 40 or 50 sources of sound were being fed into a mixer for the live show and into a multi-track for the re-play. Yes it does sound like a very critical mix was made from a multi-track somewhere along the way, but did they first record the show without an audience, (perhaps) in an earlier rehearsal, and then lipsync the live event ... why? And who pays for all of the orchestra's extra time? That would be six figures easily. That is a possibility, but is it necessary? Certainly all the orchestra players could follow the written music and play that music on cue. It's not complex music -- at least for a classical player ... in fact, it's simple stuff. So no need to lipsync for the sake of the orchestra.
Still waiting to hear back from Bruce who may tell us the facts and cause me to eat my words, but at this point I still think it was a live -- for real -- performance.

~swd
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2016, 01:08:13 PM »

Thanks for your input Stephen--I certainly value your views on the matter better than anyone!

Looking at Mike Love's photo album from over the weekend it appears that a lot of preparation went into the performance.  Perhaps they recorded a live performance of the core band (sans orchestra) during rehearsal and then played to a pre-recorded track with the orchestra playing live behind them on the actual live telecast?  My guess is that because the medley forced the songs to have very specific and intricate stops/changes as they went from one song to another--producers may have felt it was safer to have it pre-recorded to ensure a flawless performance?  It was a live performance to air, I believe.  Adding to the risk factor, the orchestra would only be playing the music once--during the telecast--so maybe it was decided to remove any form of risk in the proceedings by having it pre-recorded?

If it turns out it was all completely live--I wouldn't be that surprised because these guys are pros and wouldn't put it past them to nail it at showtime.


« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 01:18:44 PM by Justin » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2016, 01:14:09 PM »

I look forward to hearing what Bruce has to say.

If it was live without any sweeting then they all managed to sound younger than they have for a long time, with added cheese thrown in!  Grin

Stephen, I respect your work with the group but the reason people suspect autotune is the guys were flawless and that is not bourne out by all the shows they have done over the years.  Fabulous singers they may have been but age catches up with everyone.  They are still great but the voices are not what they once were when you worked with them.
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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2016, 01:19:01 PM »

Not only that, but  (to use an example) Jeff sounded almost nothing like Jeff.
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« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2016, 01:57:32 PM »

Not only that, but  (to use an example) Jeff sounded almost nothing like Jeff.

AS SOON JEFF STARTED I WAS ....WHAT IS THIS...IT DOESNT SOUND LIKE JEFF...EVEN MIKE SOUNDED LIKE A ROBOT..

LEAVE THE AUTOTUNE GUYS...YOURE GREAT WITHOUT IT.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eF8JIoAp310
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 02:00:53 PM by Dutchie » Logged
Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2016, 02:40:02 PM »

It appears that everyone on stage is miming to a live pre-recorded track.   Some of Cowsill's fills don't match up with the sound and I even caught a few moments where he's playing on the ride yet we hear him playing on the hi-hat.  Since it was a live televised event, maybe all parties felt it was safer to have it pre-recorded for a flawless performance.

Yep, big clue 'There Isn't A Mic In Sight On The Drum Kit'
COMMENT:  Take another look.  There is a clip or close-up mic on the back tenor tom, the front tom, and the snare, two mikes pointing straight up under each side of the kit (presumably to catch the cymbals, and a boom mic with its microphone stuck into the kick drum's hole (right by the girl's breasts). Hard to see other mics, but then that's the whole idea, make it as non-technical looking as possible. Also, each guitar amp has a microphone in front of it. I see plenty of mics all over the set -- you just have to know how mics can be hidden.

Then there's the story of the creative sound man who was challenged to get a vocal pickup mic to work on a 'Vagas striptease dancer who sang as she took her cloths off, until naked.  Solution? He hid a miniature mic and transmitter in her hairdo.  Afro  
  ~swd
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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2016, 04:27:41 PM »

Someone tell me then at 3.30-3.33 what happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF8JIoAp310
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 05:01:36 PM by 18thofMay » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2016, 05:50:19 PM »

I think everyone is correct. Looks like a live orchestra playing along to a pre-recorded track, maybe a few live instruments, with a mix of lip-syncing and some live vocals.

At 3:30, the high hat doesn't seem to be touched. Besides, the high hat doesn't make that shaking sound.
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« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2016, 06:04:01 PM »

There is obviously autotune. Can't you hear the robotic-quality that on Jeff and Mike's vocals. Also, Bruce is damn near inaudible. Noticeable on the "I wish they all could be California Girls"
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« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2016, 06:12:21 PM »

I watched it last night, and I did think Mike's voice sounded unusually processed. Foskett sounded fine to these years, but I'm not nearly as familiar with his voice. I thought they did good - and that's coming from a guy who still has a hard time seeing this band of mostly - to me - anonymous musicians performing as The Beach Boys. Joe Montegna's (sp?) introduction made me cringe. Now, before anyone gets defensive, let me say I get equally annoyed when people imply that Brian was the only Beach Boy that mattered. I will always think of the Beach Boys as being Mike, Carl, Al, Brian, Dennis and Bruce. And David.
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« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2016, 06:14:20 PM »

Of course it's fake just like they're the fake BB's. myKe luHv is a fake who will do anything he can to make himself look good including this. So damn obvious what's happening here. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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