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Author Topic: Mike Love Meets Donald Trump  (Read 46420 times)
Jim V.
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« Reply #225 on: June 03, 2016, 07:42:40 AM »


This is a "Mike Love Meets Donald Trump" thread.  It invites discussion pro and con.  Donald Trump is a citizen until he is elected.  He has no official authority or capacity.

That is your opinion.  There is room for opposing viewpoints and why we have op-eds in our newspapers and in the electronic media and on television.  You call it "sub-par" because you don't agree with it and would perhaps rather censor those with whom you don't agree.  That is not the way America works.     

This board has always had the reputation as one of the least censored BB fora.  Some of us would like to see it remain that way, even though some are "uncomfortable." Newsflash.  Opposing viewpoints are uncomfortable.  The Forefathers and Framers of the Constitution were "uncomfortable" with political repression and resolved the problem.     

There is a "Sandbox" forum on this board for political posts/discussion/diatribes/crayon drawings. Your posts deviated from anything to do with Mike Love long ago.

"Least censored" doesn't mean you can just post anything you want here. Indeed, in moving your discussion to another forum, you're not even being censored. You're simply being re-routed.

You can keep insulting those who think your political posts are mouth-breathing, sub-par rants by contending they feel "uncomfortable" or simply "disagree", but at the end of the day the problem is that it's off-topic.

Hey Jude - that is a personal attack.  "Your posts?"  I could attack your web pages in the way they absolutely disrespect the Touring Band.  But I don't.  

Re-routed?  You are not a mod.  I am not insulting other opinions, merely disagreeing.  Please look at the topic name.  There is an rather recent attempt to "re-route" positions that are not agreed with.  I find it troubling and one reason why people are leaving this forum.    

My page, blog, etc. are all *ABOUT* the Beach Boys, so attacking them would be on-topic.

Nobody is attacking you. By "your posts", I specifically referenced that "Your posts" deviated from on-topic discussion. How is using the term "your posts" a personal attack? I'm simply saying, pleading, begging you to move your political stuff to the Sandbox.
Hey Jude - Not really.  It is a Mike/Touring Band diss.  It was not a neutral analysis of what the photo meant on your site.  

Mike called it a "photo op" just this morning.  They were both at Rolling Thunder, supporting the vets.  Brian is also supporting the vets and both BB's finding a different way to do it.  This is not "one size fits all." Rolling Thunder (sponsored by Harley-Davidson) publicizes the POW-MIA - Prisoner of War - Missing in Action, which was a huge Vietnam War issue which resonates with Baby Boomers.  

It is also a specific non-profit to also deal with mesothelioma (cancer) which was a result of asbestos exposure.  They are "raising awareness."  

Just my opinion.  

And, Happy Friday, people!  Beer

Also interesting that I saw one of the people running last weekends POW-MIA thing on TV, and the TV host asked (gingerly) if they only invited "candidates like Trump" which gave rise to the guy saying how Hillary would "raise the deficit just like Obama" or something like that. So I guess without even answering the question he sure answered it: this thing is for right wingers (no lefties allowed!).

Sweetdudejim - yes, I think your are correct, that it did have a "tone" that was Hillary was not their friend.  I guess they are frustrated. I remember Vietnam vets with whom I went to college, very reluctant to even say they were vets.    

And that's acceptable? Why?
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« Reply #226 on: June 03, 2016, 07:44:52 AM »


This is a "Mike Love Meets Donald Trump" thread.  It invites discussion pro and con.  Donald Trump is a citizen until he is elected.  He has no official authority or capacity.

That is your opinion.  There is room for opposing viewpoints and why we have op-eds in our newspapers and in the electronic media and on television.  You call it "sub-par" because you don't agree with it and would perhaps rather censor those with whom you don't agree.  That is not the way America works.     

This board has always had the reputation as one of the least censored BB fora.  Some of us would like to see it remain that way, even though some are "uncomfortable." Newsflash.  Opposing viewpoints are uncomfortable.  The Forefathers and Framers of the Constitution were "uncomfortable" with political repression and resolved the problem.     

There is a "Sandbox" forum on this board for political posts/discussion/diatribes/crayon drawings. Your posts deviated from anything to do with Mike Love long ago.

"Least censored" doesn't mean you can just post anything you want here. Indeed, in moving your discussion to another forum, you're not even being censored. You're simply being re-routed.

You can keep insulting those who think your political posts are mouth-breathing, sub-par rants by contending they feel "uncomfortable" or simply "disagree", but at the end of the day the problem is that it's off-topic.

Hey Jude - that is a personal attack.  "Your posts?"  I could attack your web pages in the way they absolutely disrespect the Touring Band.  But I don't.  

Re-routed?  You are not a mod.  I am not insulting other opinions, merely disagreeing.  Please look at the topic name.  There is an rather recent attempt to "re-route" positions that are not agreed with.  I find it troubling and one reason why people are leaving this forum.    

My page, blog, etc. are all *ABOUT* the Beach Boys, so attacking them would be on-topic.

Nobody is attacking you. By "your posts", I specifically referenced that "Your posts" deviated from on-topic discussion. How is using the term "your posts" a personal attack? I'm simply saying, pleading, begging you to move your political stuff to the Sandbox.
Hey Jude - Not really.  It is a Mike/Touring Band diss.  It was not a neutral analysis of what the photo meant on your site.  

Mike called it a "photo op" just this morning.  They were both at Rolling Thunder, supporting the vets.  Brian is also supporting the vets and both BB's finding a different way to do it.  This is not "one size fits all." Rolling Thunder (sponsored by Harley-Davidson) publicizes the POW-MIA - Prisoner of War - Missing in Action, which was a huge Vietnam War issue which resonates with Baby Boomers.  

It is also a specific non-profit to also deal with mesothelioma (cancer) which was a result of asbestos exposure.  They are "raising awareness."  

Just my opinion.  

And, Happy Friday, people!  Beer

Also interesting that I saw one of the people running last weekends POW-MIA thing on TV, and the TV host asked (gingerly) if they only invited "candidates like Trump" which gave rise to the guy saying how Hillary would "raise the deficit just like Obama" or something like that. So I guess without even answering the question he sure answered it: this thing is for right wingers (no lefties allowed!).

Sweetdudejim - yes, I think your are correct, that it did have a "tone" that was Hillary was not their friend.  I guess they are frustrated. I remember Vietnam vets with whom I went to college, very reluctant to even say they were vets.    
Complete BS. Details in sandbox.
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HeyJude
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« Reply #227 on: June 03, 2016, 07:45:26 AM »

Who ever said Mike doesn't have a right to post whatever he wants on Facebook? What are you talking about?

The photo was apparently "lifted" and reposted on your site. It was as though Mike had no right to meet or speak to Trump. Fans don't get to choose with whom they (band members) associate.  I guess I have a problem with the name you are using as beachboysoponion and not supporting all the members.  That's all. 

Reposting a photo on Facebook doesn't connote the original poster having "no right" to do anything, nor does it imply fans get to choose what band members do. And there's a very important reason I put the word "Opinion" in there. It's opinions! It's the very opposite of "objective." That's the whole point. The point isn't to blindly support everybody in everything for all time. There's room to say Brian's new song sucks, or Mike came across poorly in an interview. There's room to make fun of Al wearing Bruce's shorts, and so on.
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« Reply #228 on: June 03, 2016, 07:47:19 AM »

Emily is ready and willing to debate you in the Sandbox, filledepage. Please don't think the lack of off-topic argument in this thread is, in some way, a concession to your ignorant rants. Take it outside!

Marcella - Emily is not a mod.  The topic is "Mike Love Meets Donald Trump." If the mods want to move it, then they should.  I have always backed the moderators. 

Nobody is saying you have to move your political rants, or implying anybody other than the Mods are Mods, nor implying that those who aren't Mods have the power to tell you what to do. People are simply asking you to move your discussion, suggesting that you do.

If you feel you're being "told" what to do, then we can try to start over with a communal sense of mutual respect:

Would you please move your off-topic political posts to the Sandbox? There is indeed an actual forum specifically for political discourse, and even more specifically the current ongoing election. I believe most if not all would agree that posts wholly encompassing political discourse are best placed in the Sandbox.
Hey Jude - if and when the thread is moved to The Sandbox, I will discuss it there. I found it great disrespect to surf patrol, yesterday, to be told the response was "in The Sandbox.  He is, a 50+ year ardent BB fan.     

That's not disrespect, that's internet etiquette. Some people actually still strive for it.
Hey Jude - The Beach Boys are a Baby Boomer era band.  Not all baby boomers are internet savvy.  I am lucky I was dragged, kicking-and-screaming into the world of tech in post-grad, afraid of a computer blowing up if I would hit the wrong key.  Lifer fans do very well just to get over their fear of computers and the internet.  They deserve respect and not a reprimand and disrespect.

They/we come from an analog world.   The Desper world!  LOL




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« Reply #229 on: June 03, 2016, 07:48:16 AM »

Here's how we possibly could have avoided eight pages of this bullshit. Put a stipulation in the Beach Boy licensing agreement that neither Mike nor Bruce can attend or play at any political functions or appear with any political figures.
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« Reply #230 on: June 03, 2016, 07:49:20 AM »

Who ever said Mike doesn't have a right to post whatever he wants on Facebook? What are you talking about?

The photo was apparently "lifted" and reposted on your site. It was as though Mike had no right to meet or speak to Trump. Fans don't get to choose with whom they (band members) associate.  I guess I have a problem with the name you are using as beachboysoponion and not supporting all the members.  That's all. 

Reposting a photo on Facebook doesn't connote the original poster having "no right" to do anything, nor does it imply fans get to choose what band members do. And there's a very important reason I put the word "Opinion" in there. It's opinions! It's the very opposite of "objective." That's the whole point. The point isn't to blindly support everybody in everything for all time. There's room to say Brian's new song sucks, or Mike came across poorly in an interview. There's room to make fun of Al wearing Bruce's shorts, and so on.

They all wore short shorts.  It is a fine line between "opinion" and "disparagement" and libel.  
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« Reply #231 on: June 03, 2016, 07:51:56 AM »

Here's how we possibly could have avoided eight pages of this bullshit. Put a stipulation in the Beach Boy licensing agreement that neither Mike nor Bruce can attend or play at any political functions or appear with any political figures.

That would have been a great idea for the band to implement decades ago, from the beginning. Indeed, Brian was quoted in the 80s that he felt the band should be viewed as non-partisan.
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« Reply #232 on: June 03, 2016, 07:52:12 AM »

Emily is ready and willing to debate you in the Sandbox, filledepage. Please don't think the lack of off-topic argument in this thread is, in some way, a concession to your ignorant rants. Take it outside!

Marcella - Emily is not a mod.  The topic is "Mike Love Meets Donald Trump." If the mods want to move it, then they should.  I have always backed the moderators. 

Nobody is saying you have to move your political rants, or implying anybody other than the Mods are Mods, nor implying that those who aren't Mods have the power to tell you what to do. People are simply asking you to move your discussion, suggesting that you do.

If you feel you're being "told" what to do, then we can try to start over with a communal sense of mutual respect:

Would you please move your off-topic political posts to the Sandbox? There is indeed an actual forum specifically for political discourse, and even more specifically the current ongoing election. I believe most if not all would agree that posts wholly encompassing political discourse are best placed in the Sandbox.
Hey Jude - if and when the thread is moved to The Sandbox, I will discuss it there. I found it great disrespect to surf patrol, yesterday, to be told the response was "in The Sandbox.  He is, a 50+ year ardent BB fan.     

That's not disrespect, that's internet etiquette. Some people actually still strive for it.
Hey Jude - The Beach Boys are a Baby Boomer era band.  Not all baby boomers are internet savvy.  I am lucky I was dragged, kicking-and-screaming into the world of tech in post-grad, afraid of a computer blowing up if I would hit the wrong key.  Lifer fans do very well just to get over their fear of computers and the internet.  They deserve respect and not a reprimand and disrespect.

They/we come from an analog world.   The Desper world!  LOL





And yet they still manage to post flamey gibberish all the hell over the internet.
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« Reply #233 on: June 03, 2016, 07:57:40 AM »

Here's how we possibly could have avoided eight pages of this bullshit. Put a stipulation in the Beach Boy licensing agreement that neither Mike nor Bruce can attend or play at any political functions or appear with any political figures.

Or more accurately, make sure that Mike and Bruce don't appear with any "controversial" political figures, lest they upset people. 
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HeyJude
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« Reply #234 on: June 03, 2016, 07:58:13 AM »

Who ever said Mike doesn't have a right to post whatever he wants on Facebook? What are you talking about?

The photo was apparently "lifted" and reposted on your site. It was as though Mike had no right to meet or speak to Trump. Fans don't get to choose with whom they (band members) associate.  I guess I have a problem with the name you are using as beachboysoponion and not supporting all the members.  That's all. 

Reposting a photo on Facebook doesn't connote the original poster having "no right" to do anything, nor does it imply fans get to choose what band members do. And there's a very important reason I put the word "Opinion" in there. It's opinions! It's the very opposite of "objective." That's the whole point. The point isn't to blindly support everybody in everything for all time. There's room to say Brian's new song sucks, or Mike came across poorly in an interview. There's room to make fun of Al wearing Bruce's shorts, and so on.

They all wore short shorts.  It is a fine line between "opinion" and "disparagement" and libel.  

You do realize that making fun of Al's shorts is a joke, right? You also realize that the number of Beach Boys that wore shorts has nothing to do with such a joke, right?

You also realize that making fun of someone wearing shorts is not libel, right?

I disagree as well. There is a HUGE, very definable line between "opinion" and "Libel", and ironically, inferring or implying someone's opinions and jokes are libelous gets you much closer to actual libel.

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« Reply #235 on: June 03, 2016, 08:19:34 AM »

Also filledplageafd, could you tell me why vets shouldn't support Hillary but should support a guy who has said out loud in public that "I like people who weren’t captured" when speaking about POWs.

So twist that however you want, but he said it very recently and he never apologized for it. But yeah, he's for the "vets" and Hillary hates them. Right.
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Gerry
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« Reply #236 on: June 03, 2016, 08:34:12 AM »

The irony of this thread is that regarding their song writing, the Beach Boys were probably the least political major band to come out of the '60's.
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« Reply #237 on: June 03, 2016, 08:36:02 AM »

I hope the BBs don't stop doing their charity work, like this POW/MIA appearance, just because a few fans might pull a muscle leaping to conclusions.   Wink
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« Reply #238 on: June 03, 2016, 08:40:53 AM »

I hope the BBs don't stop doing their charity work, like this POW/MIA appearance, just because a few fans might pull a muscle leaping to conclusions.   Wink

Mike's pic has clearly made a statement that he is a aligning himself with the stereotypical angry white middle-aged right-leaning man.  There's no conclusion – jumping in that.  Guys like that probably make up a good chunk of his audience, so it's not surprising he would want to show  brotherhood, so to speak.
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« Reply #239 on: June 03, 2016, 08:41:16 AM »

The irony of this thread is that regarding their song writing, the Beach Boys were probably the least political major band to come out of the '60's.
Smiley keep trying, Gerry.
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« Reply #240 on: June 03, 2016, 08:55:46 AM »

I hope the BBs don't stop doing their charity work, like this POW/MIA appearance, just because a few fans might pull a muscle leaping to conclusions.   Wink

Mike's pic has clearly made a statement that he is a aligning himself with the stereotypical angry white middle-aged right-leaning man.  There's no conclusion – jumping in that.  Guys like that probably make up a good chunk of his audience, so it's not surprising he would want to show  brotherhood, so to speak.

Or could he be aligning himself/showing brotherhood with POW/MIAs and their families of his Vietnam-era generation or any era (since he also posed with several older generation vets)?

No conclusion jumping in "aligning himself with the stereotypical angry white middle-aged right-leaning man"?  (one eyebrow raised)
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« Reply #241 on: June 03, 2016, 09:33:20 AM »

I hope the BBs don't stop doing their charity work, like this POW/MIA appearance, just because a few fans might pull a muscle leaping to conclusions.   Wink

Mike's pic has clearly made a statement that he is a aligning himself with the stereotypical angry white middle-aged right-leaning man.  There's no conclusion – jumping in that.  Guys like that probably make up a good chunk of his audience, so it's not surprising he would want to show  brotherhood, so to speak.

Or could he be aligning himself/showing brotherhood with POW/MIAs and their families of his Vietnam-era generation or any era (since he also posed with several older generation vets)?

No conclusion jumping in "aligning himself with the stereotypical angry white middle-aged right-leaning man"?  (one eyebrow raised)

Again - Trump, a guy who says stuff like "I like people who weren't captured" about McCain... this is a guy who Mike would think is the A1, numero uno guy to make some sort of POW/MIA statement by posing with?

"Gee, if I stand next to this man, I'm making some sort of completely apolitical statement that shows no party affiliation whatsoever"? That's absurd. You're insulting *Mike's* own intelligence if you think he is that dumb to actually think that posing next to Trump and posting that pic on his own FB page would never in a million years cause many people to assume a soft endorsement at minimum.  Mike's not that dumb. He knew he was making a political statement, or at least a high-five to his Repbulican fans, who for some strange reason (which is actually not that strange a reason to me) likely make up a much larger portion of his audience than Brian's audience.
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« Reply #242 on: June 03, 2016, 09:34:44 AM »

Also filledplageafd, could you tell me why vets shouldn't support Hillary but should support a guy who has said out loud in public that "I like people who weren’t captured" when speaking about POWs.

So twist that however you want, but he said it very recently and he never apologized for it. But yeah, he's for the "vets" and Hillary hates them. Right.
Sweetdudejim - that was the dumbest thing to ever say.  I agree.  I won't apologize for that.  It has to do more with his absolute lack of political experience.  

Hillary (and Bill) were part of 16 years (2 terms each) of VA influence since 1993. And, actions speak louder than words.  The VA would not be in the dire mess that is in today if they got to the root of the ineptitude and corruption via their procurement processes.  Neither Hillary nor Donald own the vets votes.  They have to earn them.    
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« Reply #243 on: June 03, 2016, 09:36:04 AM »

Also filledplageafd, could you tell me why vets shouldn't support Hillary but should support a guy who has said out loud in public that "I like people who weren’t captured" when speaking about POWs.

So twist that however you want, but he said it very recently and he never apologized for it. But yeah, he's for the "vets" and Hillary hates them. Right.
Sweetdudejim - that was the dumbest thing to ever say.  I agree.  I won't apologize for that.  

I bet if Mike said those same words, you'd find a way to apologize for them, or at minimum you wouldn't criticize him by simply remaining silent about it.
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« Reply #244 on: June 03, 2016, 09:38:13 AM »

I hope the BBs don't stop doing their charity work, like this POW/MIA appearance, just because a few fans might pull a muscle leaping to conclusions.   Wink

Mike's pic has clearly made a statement that he is a aligning himself with the stereotypical angry white middle-aged right-leaning man.  There's no conclusion – jumping in that.  Guys like that probably make up a good chunk of his audience, so it's not surprising he would want to show  brotherhood, so to speak.

Or could he be aligning himself/showing brotherhood with POW/MIAs and their families of his Vietnam-era generation or any era (since he also posed with several older generation vets)?

No conclusion jumping in "aligning himself with the stereotypical angry white middle-aged right-leaning man"?  (one eyebrow raised)

Again - Trump, a guy who says stuff like "I like people who weren't captured" about McCain... this is a guy who Mike would think is the A1, numero uno guy to make some sort of POW/MIA statement by posing with?

"Gee, if I stand next to this man, I'm making some sort of completely apolitical statement that shows no party affiliation whatsoever"? That's absurd. You're insulting *Mike's* own intelligence if you think he is that dumb to actually think that posing next to Trump and posting that pic on his own FB page would never in a million years cause many people to assume a soft endorsement at minimum.  Mike's not that dumb. He knew he was making a political statement, or at least a high-five to his Repbulican fans, who for some strange reason (which is actually not that strange a reason to me) likely make up a much larger portion of his audience than Brian's audience.

We will just disagree then.
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« Reply #245 on: June 03, 2016, 09:39:31 AM »

The irony of this thread is that regarding their song writing, the Beach Boys were probably the least political major band to come out of the '60's.
Gerry - Carl Wilson's CO status was huge on the political front.  Didn't they work on the "18 by '72" voter registration drive?

Didn't they play prisons as part of the deal to provide Carl with alternative military service?

Not political?    

Don't Go Near the Water is a quasi-environmental political policy statement.  

Student Demonstration Time?  Not activist.  Not universally loved but certainly political activist.

The Trader?  dealing with colonialism? Wink
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« Reply #246 on: June 03, 2016, 09:43:22 AM »

Also filledplageafd, could you tell me why vets shouldn't support Hillary but should support a guy who has said out loud in public that "I like people who weren’t captured" when speaking about POWs.

So twist that however you want, but he said it very recently and he never apologized for it. But yeah, he's for the "vets" and Hillary hates them. Right.
Sweetdudejim - that was the dumbest thing to ever say.  I agree.  I won't apologize for that.  It has to do more with his absolute lack of political experience.  
    
Can you please stop writing off being a complete asshole and saying things that only a complete asshole would say as "political inexperience?" I don't know anyone who's said anything so assholish about POWs and I know a lot of people with a lot less political experience than Trump. And Trump has spent a lifetime in the media.
It's such BS, the excuses you use for the people you side with. And the excuses you use to attack the people you don't side with.
Lots of vets are protesting Trump.
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« Reply #247 on: June 03, 2016, 09:52:45 AM »

Also filledplageafd, could you tell me why vets shouldn't support Hillary but should support a guy who has said out loud in public that "I like people who weren’t captured" when speaking about POWs.

So twist that however you want, but he said it very recently and he never apologized for it. But yeah, he's for the "vets" and Hillary hates them. Right.
Sweetdudejim - that was the dumbest thing to ever say.  I agree.  I won't apologize for that.  It has to do more with his absolute lack of political experience.  
    
Can you please stop writing off being a complete asshole and saying things that only a complete asshole would say as "political inexperience?" I don't know anyone who's said anything so assholish about POWs and I know a lot of people with a lot less political experience than Trump. And Trump has spent a lifetime in the media.
It's such BS, the excuses you use for the people you side with. And the excuses you use to attack the people you don't side with.
Lots of vets are protesting Trump.


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« Reply #248 on: June 03, 2016, 10:33:23 AM »

Sweetdudejim - that was the dumbest thing to ever say.  I agree.  I won't apologize for that.  It has to do more with his absolute lack of political experience.  

Wait? Saying you "only like the ones that weren't captured" is just a case of lack of political experience? Really? I don't think so. I think it's about lack of human empathy. But let's excuse that cuz Fox News tells us to.
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« Reply #249 on: June 03, 2016, 01:04:32 PM »

I'm aware of what you're talking about but as I said I was speaking about their song writing. I don't think any body cared that Trader was about colonialism. SDT is the only overtly political song I can think of. Their image as a sun and fun group trumped (sorry) whatever scant political messages they may have sung about in the early '70's. As for Carl's CO status, that was a personal issue and hardly publicized.
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