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Author Topic: Thread for arguments with or about moderation  (Read 160360 times)
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Emily
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« Reply #525 on: June 04, 2016, 09:06:22 PM »

I've noticed that when squabbles come up, there's always at least one person who implies that the tension here is new or newish. I've seen it said that it's occurred just in the last year; or that it's since the reunion.
And, before I joined, I'd read some old threads, as I continue to do, and that never seemed right to me.
Today I came across this:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8355.25.html

And there are quite a few older threads with similar anger.
This is from 2010.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 11:52:01 PM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #526 on: June 04, 2016, 09:11:02 PM »

Wow...I had locked that thread, and a now former mod unlocked it without even asking me. I remember that really pissing me off. That's something that would never happen today
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« Reply #527 on: June 05, 2016, 10:37:49 AM »

I've noticed that when squabbles come up, there's always at least one person who implies that the tension here is new or newish. I've seen it said that it's occurred just in the last year; or that it's since the reunion.
And, before I joined, I'd read some old threads, as I continue to do, and that never seemed right to me.
Today I came across this:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8355.25.html

And there are quite a few older threads with similar anger.
This is from 2010.

Emily, I'll address it to you because you made the comments, but it goes out to anyone reading;

This is exactly what I have been saying since Andrew started his bullshit campaign back in the fall or even earlier.

Anyone who says all of the issues with the board was caused by the current moderators and the moderation in 2015-16 is simply full of crap if they're stating it as a fact. if it's opinion, everyone has one, but it would be at least a decent thing to do if the facts were straight before the blame-game starts up.

Again...as I have been saying and may have said earlier in this 20+ page thread, go back to all previous Beach Boys related boards. Why were there blowups on Junkstar's board, Susan's board, Jon and John's board, Ian's board, Val's board...etc? Where are those boards as of June 2016?  There are common factors among each of them...it might be just as informative to find what those were and are before saying I or any other moderating issue "ruined" this board.

Maybe...just maybe...I didn't toe the line enough to satisfy those who wanted a line toe'd? Just a thought. I sure as hell got a bunch of private messages demanding certain things, but we'll leave it at that.

So there are and were other issues going back to 2010, here?Huh Who would've guessed.

Maybe, again just maybe, I was more than aware of all of this bullshit going back over a decade and saw how this kind of stuff played out before I even thought about let alone agreed to becoming a mod in 2015.

So let's see if anyone who was pointing the accusatory finger of blame my way steps up and retracts their previous blames and accusations, because some decent people got unfortunately led to believe bullshit that came from known bullshitters who have different reasons for doing things than 95% here would know.
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« Reply #528 on: June 05, 2016, 11:54:48 AM »

I've noticed that when squabbles come up, there's always at least one person who implies that the tension here is new or newish. I've seen it said that it's occurred just in the last year; or that it's since the reunion.
And, before I joined, I'd read some old threads, as I continue to do, and that never seemed right to me.
Today I came across this:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8355.25.html

And there are quite a few older threads with similar anger.
This is from 2010.

Emily, I'll address it to you because you made the comments, but it goes out to anyone reading;

This is exactly what I have been saying since Andrew started his bullshit campaign back in the fall or even earlier.

Anyone who says all of the issues with the board was caused by the current moderators and the moderation in 2015-16 is simply full of crap if they're stating it as a fact. if it's opinion, everyone has one, but it would be at least a decent thing to do if the facts were straight before the blame-game starts up.

Again...as I have been saying and may have said earlier in this 20+ page thread, go back to all previous Beach Boys related boards. Why were there blowups on Junkstar's board, Susan's board, Jon and John's board, Ian's board, Val's board...etc? Where are those boards as of June 2016?  There are common factors among each of them...it might be just as informative to find what those were and are before saying I or any other moderating issue "ruined" this board.

Maybe...just maybe...I didn't toe the line enough to satisfy those who wanted a line toe'd? Just a thought. I sure as hell got a bunch of private messages demanding certain things, but we'll leave it at that.

So there are and were other issues going back to 2010, here?Huh Who would've guessed.

Maybe, again just maybe, I was more than aware of all of this bullshit going back over a decade and saw how this kind of stuff played out before I even thought about let alone agreed to becoming a mod in 2015.

So let's see if anyone who was pointing the accusatory finger of blame my way steps up and retracts their previous blames and accusations, because some decent people got unfortunately led to believe bullshit that came from known bullshitters who have different reasons for doing things than 95% here would know.

And that's the lovely job of a moderator here.  You can't reveal pm's, and you know what you know, but here you sit with that knowledge and all the attacks on you personally, here and elsewhere.  You have far thicker skin than me, and mine has been toughened considerably by dealing with this place.  What a strange battle zone. I get it on the big stage of national politics, but here? WTF? 

The music speaks for itself, yet people try to lie about its creation and who did it, with some key eyewitnesses dead, etc.  And of course, if one is old enough to have observed some of this music's creation and to have observed the work enough to defend many of the book/article writers of that time, we're attacked for having a "saggy, dumped ass."  At least that tantrum was public.  I can't even imagine what's been said privately, nor would I want to know.
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« Reply #529 on: June 05, 2016, 12:04:50 PM »

I've noticed that when squabbles come up, there's always at least one person who implies that the tension here is new or newish. I've seen it said that it's occurred just in the last year; or that it's since the reunion.
And, before I joined, I'd read some old threads, as I continue to do, and that never seemed right to me.
Today I came across this:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8355.25.html

And there are quite a few older threads with similar anger.
This is from 2010.

Emily, I'll address it to you because you made the comments, but it goes out to anyone reading;

This is exactly what I have been saying since Andrew started his bullshit campaign back in the fall or even earlier.

Anyone who says all of the issues with the board was caused by the current moderators and the moderation in 2015-16 is simply full of crap if they're stating it as a fact. if it's opinion, everyone has one, but it would be at least a decent thing to do if the facts were straight before the blame-game starts up.

Again...as I have been saying and may have said earlier in this 20+ page thread, go back to all previous Beach Boys related boards. Why were there blowups on Junkstar's board, Susan's board, Jon and John's board, Ian's board, Val's board...etc? Where are those boards as of June 2016?  There are common factors among each of them...it might be just as informative to find what those were and are before saying I or any other moderating issue "ruined" this board.

Maybe...just maybe...I didn't toe the line enough to satisfy those who wanted a line toe'd? Just a thought. I sure as hell got a bunch of private messages demanding certain things, but we'll leave it at that.

So there are and were other issues going back to 2010, here?Huh Who would've guessed.

Maybe, again just maybe, I was more than aware of all of this bullshit going back over a decade and saw how this kind of stuff played out before I even thought about let alone agreed to becoming a mod in 2015.

So let's see if anyone who was pointing the accusatory finger of blame my way steps up and retracts their previous blames and accusations, because some decent people got unfortunately led to believe bullshit that came from known bullshitters who have different reasons for doing things than 95% here would know.

And that's the lovely job of a moderator here.  You can't reveal pm's, and you know what you know, but here you sit with that knowledge and all the attacks on you personally, here and elsewhere.  You have far thicker skin than me, and mine has been toughened considerably by dealing with this place.  What a strange battle zone. I get it on the big stage of national politics, but here? WTF? 

The music speaks for itself, yet people try to lie about its creation and who did it, with some key eyewitnesses dead, etc.  And of course, if one is old enough to have observed some of this music's creation and to have observed the work enough to defend many of the book/article writers of that time, we're attacked for having a "saggy, dumped ass."  At least that tantrum was public.  I can't even imagine what's been said privately, nor would I want to know.

Knowing the truth makes it easy to spot the lies and the liars.  It also can be all the validation one needs if they adhere to the truth in face of even the loudest and most vocal liars. Smiley
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« Reply #530 on: June 07, 2016, 03:40:58 PM »

I thought this belonged here for further discussion.  LOL

Just do like guitarstool and twist the truth.
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« Reply #531 on: June 09, 2016, 08:22:30 AM »

You can't lose the "old timers" and prosper under these conditions. This board, like any board, needs them back. Threads they shared, full of knowledge, are being deleted..in talking to others who are still around more of these threads are going to be deleted.

Threads are being deleted?  What threads?

sigh...you  all are getting lazy. the research items, ones that brought a lot of traffic to this board, in the media section for one. the magazine scan thread's posts (for the most part) have been removed. that was back around end of april. articles bgas posted are being removed (some even in the last hour). laugh and deny all you want. what i posted about talking to others and more items were going to be removed was true. the magazine scan item's removal in late april have still attracted over 1500 hits, people who  wanted to read or look something up. those are gone. those people, probably mostly guests, may not come back now those items are gone. same with items and articles bgas is now removing. others who posted have said they will probably remove theirs. this place is crumbling apart and has lost lots of beach boys history for interested people. one needs to pick ones mods carefully.
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« Reply #532 on: June 09, 2016, 08:33:52 AM »

This makes me like AGD's buddies less and less.
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« Reply #533 on: June 09, 2016, 08:36:09 AM »

You can't lose the "old timers" and prosper under these conditions. This board, like any board, needs them back. Threads they shared, full of knowledge, are being deleted..in talking to others who are still around more of these threads are going to be deleted.

Threads are being deleted?  What threads?

sigh...you  all are getting lazy. the research items, ones that brought a lot of traffic to this board, in the media section for one. the magazine scan thread's posts (for the most part) have been removed. that was back around end of april. articles bgas posted are being removed (some even in the last hour). laugh and deny all you want. what i posted about talking to others and more items were going to be removed was true. the magazine scan item's removal in late april have still attracted over 1500 hits, people who  wanted to read or look something up. those are gone. those people, probably mostly guests, may not come back now those items are gone. same with items and articles bgas is now removing. others who posted have said they will probably remove theirs. this place is crumbling apart and has lost lots of beach boys history for interested people. one needs to pick ones mods carefully.

Now THIS is going too far.

If you want to blame me or any other mods for any of this, at least have the honesty to do it under the name which everyone knows you instead of using an alias account.

This latest effort is among the most disappointing things I have seen on these boards, especially since my respect for you was as high as anyone on this board and I never hesitated to express that. Now it's come to this? Unreal. The opportunity is open to work this out, but a good start would be having a conversation and posting criticism of others here under your own name instead of an alias.

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« Reply #534 on: June 09, 2016, 09:09:35 AM »

You can't lose the "old timers" and prosper under these conditions. This board, like any board, needs them back. Threads they shared, full of knowledge, are being deleted..in talking to others who are still around more of these threads are going to be deleted.

Threads are being deleted?  What threads?

sigh...you  all are getting lazy. the research items, ones that brought a lot of traffic to this board, in the media section for one. the magazine scan thread's posts (for the most part) have been removed. that was back around end of april. articles bgas posted are being removed (some even in the last hour). laugh and deny all you want. what i posted about talking to others and more items were going to be removed was true. the magazine scan item's removal in late april have still attracted over 1500 hits, people who  wanted to read or look something up. those are gone. those people, probably mostly guests, may not come back now those items are gone. same with items and articles bgas is now removing. others who posted have said they will probably remove theirs. this place is crumbling apart and has lost lots of beach boys history for interested people. one needs to pick ones mods carefully.

Steve,  I'm extremely disappointed in you.  I had more respect for you than this.

You deleted it yourself,  and admitted as much on the ps board.  Why the need the post this under your second account?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 09:46:06 AM by ♩♬ Billy C ♯♫♩ » Logged

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« Reply #535 on: June 09, 2016, 10:41:12 AM »

You can't lose the "old timers" and prosper under these conditions. This board, like any board, needs them back. Threads they shared, full of knowledge, are being deleted..in talking to others who are still around more of these threads are going to be deleted.

Threads are being deleted?  What threads?

sigh...you  all are getting lazy. the research items, ones that brought a lot of traffic to this board, in the media section for one. the magazine scan thread's posts (for the most part) have been removed. that was back around end of april. articles bgas posted are being removed (some even in the last hour). laugh and deny all you want. what i posted about talking to others and more items were going to be removed was true. the magazine scan item's removal in late april have still attracted over 1500 hits, people who  wanted to read or look something up. those are gone. those people, probably mostly guests, may not come back now those items are gone. same with items and articles bgas is now removing. others who posted have said they will probably remove theirs. this place is crumbling apart and has lost lots of beach boys history for interested people. one needs to pick ones mods carefully.

Steve,  I'm extremely disappointed in you.  I had more respect for you than this.

You deleted it yourself,  and admitted as much on the ps board.  Why the need the post this under your second account?

whoa...perfect example of id address slueths. i am my own person. you got part of it right. i have known steve for years. i live in ironton, ohio. the same town steve lived in before the fire. very good friends with him. go to his new home all the time. in fact, i have been here all morning. using his internet also. he talked me into joining this board a few years ago. steve quit posting here with his last post after andrew's banning with his post "if andrew's words aren't good enough here them mine aren't either". i post from different locations also, check it out. never did i say anyone else but the original poster deleted scans/posts or whatnot. what i said was true. steve did not ask me to post anything. in fact i wanted him to post this but he refused. doesn't want to get caught up in all this drama. i myself posted thnis. yes from my friend steve's home. do it at times when i visit him. i am real, my posts are all mine, not steve's. and i live in ironton, ohio.
i think you owe him an apology. it was not him.
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« Reply #536 on: June 09, 2016, 10:46:01 AM »

Wow. Someone repeatedly logged in under a different name just to insult me? I'm flattered.
And he took all his toys with him and when no one noticed he used his alter ego to point it out? No point in doing something spiteful if no one knows it, right?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 10:47:23 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #537 on: June 09, 2016, 10:53:03 AM »

You can't lose the "old timers" and prosper under these conditions. This board, like any board, needs them back. Threads they shared, full of knowledge, are being deleted..in talking to others who are still around more of these threads are going to be deleted.

Threads are being deleted?  What threads?

sigh...you  all are getting lazy. the research items, ones that brought a lot of traffic to this board, in the media section for one. the magazine scan thread's posts (for the most part) have been removed. that was back around end of april. articles bgas posted are being removed (some even in the last hour). laugh and deny all you want. what i posted about talking to others and more items were going to be removed was true. the magazine scan item's removal in late april have still attracted over 1500 hits, people who  wanted to read or look something up. those are gone. those people, probably mostly guests, may not come back now those items are gone. same with items and articles bgas is now removing. others who posted have said they will probably remove theirs. this place is crumbling apart and has lost lots of beach boys history for interested people. one needs to pick ones mods carefully.

Steve,  I'm extremely disappointed in you.  I had more respect for you than this.

You deleted it yourself,  and admitted as much on the ps board.  Why the need the post this under your second account?

whoa...perfect example of id address slueths. i am my own person. you got part of it right. i have known steve for years. i live in ironton, ohio. the same town steve lived in before the fire. very good friends with him. go to his new home all the time. in fact, i have been here all morning. using his internet also. he talked me into joining this board a few years ago. steve quit posting here with his last post after andrew's banning with his post "if andrew's words aren't good enough here them mine aren't either". i post from different locations also, check it out. never did i say anyone else but the original poster deleted scans/posts or whatnot. what i said was true. steve did not ask me to post anything. in fact i wanted him to post this but he refused. doesn't want to get caught up in all this drama. i myself posted thnis. yes from my friend steve's home. do it at times when i visit him. i am real, my posts are all mine, not steve's. and i live in ironton, ohio.
i think you owe him an apology. it was not him.

Ok so you are using his computer..that would make sense. A little convenient,  but would make sense.  In that case I do apologize to Steve.

As for you..so you are admitting you are not accusing us of deleting those posts? I hope so, because it's not true, but if you reread those posts it certainly comes across that way
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« Reply #538 on: June 09, 2016, 11:04:03 AM »

Srsly? You buy that?  Same allergy to capitalization; same use of 'libturds;' first day he shows up he goes to Mayo's thread to compliment his posts; over the years the ID is mainly used when he has something nasty to say, that perhaps he didn't want to say under his 'real id'.

I didn't think he was accusing the mods of deleting things. I understood all of the posts on the matter indicate that the sulky people leaving took down their stuff and that was GF's fault because sulkers aren't responsible for their own actions.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 11:14:38 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #539 on: June 09, 2016, 11:19:36 AM »

this place is crumbling apart and has lost lots of beach boys history for interested people. one needs to pick ones mods carefully.

This is definitely a "nickel every time" moment. 
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« Reply #540 on: June 09, 2016, 11:26:46 AM »

Ahh, so threads are not being deleted, as Gump (stupid is as stupid does) initially stated in his post from May 26th.  Now he/she says that some former members are deleting content that they had placed in threads.  It does seem to me that Gump was trying to get people to think that the moderators were removing threads.  Can a member delete a whole thread if said member started that thread?
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« Reply #541 on: June 09, 2016, 11:31:48 AM »

Regardless of who is deleting what, we need to figure out how it can be stopped.  It would be a shame to lose all of this great information. 
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« Reply #542 on: June 09, 2016, 11:35:30 AM »

I don't think members can delete threads, and they can't actually delete posts themselves as far as I know. They *can* go in and modify old posts and remove any or all of the content. So yeah, if you go to certain members' posting history, you'll see a whole bunch of blank posts (or posts with a "." and nothing more). I guess you have to have A LOT of free time on your hands and lot of disdain and not really feel "it's all about the Beach Boys and sharing knowledge and two boards are better than one" if you go into your old posts one-by-one and manually delete on-topic, non-inflammatory content.

Many boards put a time limit (sometimes hours, or days) on how long one can modify old posts. There are rare exceptions where there is a need to modify posts for months or years (e.g. the top post of a "Tour" thread where setlists and dates are updated, etc.), otherwise it's often tends to just be revisionism (or I guess indeed taking your ball and going home if you remove old reference/research material).

I've been on the interwebs for about 20 years now and I'm not sure how often I've bought the "I'm using someone else's computer who happens to have the same IP address and posts here" line. Frankly, if you have a "friend" who comes over to your house and needs to go on to defend you or recount your talking points on a board *after* you've made a dramatic exit, that just makes the whole thing look as bad if not worse.

If I had an acrimonious feeling about a board and left, and a friend came over and asked if they could pick up the old argument on the board, I'd tell them emphatically that that was a bad idea. Not that such a scenario would ever happen or seem plausible.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 11:41:11 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #543 on: June 09, 2016, 11:39:17 AM »

Srsly? You buy that?  Same allergy to capitalization; same use of 'libturds;' first day he shows up he goes to Mayo's thread to compliment his posts; over the years the ID is mainly used when he has something nasty to say, that perhaps he didn't want to say under his 'real id'.

I didn't think he was accusing the mods of deleting things. I understood all of the posts on the matter indicate that the sulky people leaving took down their stuff and that was GF's fault because sulkers aren't responsible for their own actions.

Not sure, as it is awfully convenient  (I mean, every single post?) but I'd rather give someone the benefit of the doubt.

As far as the other thing, well, I had read it as something else initially
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« Reply #544 on: June 09, 2016, 11:40:13 AM »

Regardless of who is deleting what, we need to figure out how it can be stopped.  It would be a shame to lose all of this great information. 

I don't know how it works in terms of etiquette and legality, but I think all of the content on this board becomes the property of the board owner (with the exception of course of things reprinted from other sources), and I don't know if the board can reinstate old deleted text from posts, or if they'd want to.

Because all of the pictures here are linked from other sources, some of those (e.g. things posters posted on their own "photobucket" accounts, etc.) would not be able to be reinstated. But some photos linked to other parts of the internet would be, as would any text if it can recovered.

I don't think it would be out of line to create a rule that mass purging of one's old posts under certain circumstances should not be allowed. There's no expectation that our posts here are like our personal Facebook (etc.) pages.
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« Reply #545 on: June 09, 2016, 11:40:35 AM »

Regardless of who is deleting what, we need to figure out how it can be stopped.  It would be a shame to lose all of this great information.  

Thankfully deleted posts are archived (discovered that yesterday by accident )..now if a member edits their post, the original version is gone forever
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« Reply #546 on: June 09, 2016, 11:41:22 AM »

I guess you have to have A LOT of free time on your hands and lot of disdain and not really feel "it's all about the Beach Boys and sharing knowledge and two boards are better than one" if you go into your old posts one-by-one and manually delete content.

BEST POST EVER, at least until the next best post.
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« Reply #547 on: June 09, 2016, 11:43:24 AM »

Regardless of who is deleting what, we need to figure out how it can be stopped.  It would be a shame to lose all of this great information.  

Thankfully deleted posts are archived (discovered that yesterday by accident )..now if a member edits their post, the original version is gone forever

Maybe the modification of posts should be disallowed.
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« Reply #548 on: June 09, 2016, 11:47:51 AM »

Is there a way to narrow the time frame for modification (usually a few hours or days is good, if you catch a typo or something that needs clarification), and then also allow for individual exceptions (e.g. the Brian 2016 tour thread top post where I've been updating with tour dates, setlists, etc., and also things like the list of Pro-Shot BB shows, YouTube links thread, etc.)?
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« Reply #549 on: June 09, 2016, 11:54:35 AM »

I don't think members can delete threads, and they can't actually delete posts themselves as far as I know. They *can* go in and modify old posts and remove any or all of the content. So yeah, if you go to certain members' posting history, you'll see a whole bunch of blank posts (or posts with a "." and nothing more). I guess you have to have A LOT of free time on your hands and lot of disdain and not really feel "it's all about the Beach Boys and sharing knowledge and two boards are better than one" if you go into your old posts one-by-one and manually delete on-topic, non-inflammatory content.

Many boards put a time limit (sometimes hours, or days) on how long one can modify old posts. There are rare exceptions where there is a need to modify posts for months or years (e.g. the top post of a "Tour" thread where setlists and dates are updated, etc.), otherwise it's often tends to just be revisionism (or I guess indeed taking your ball and going home if you remove old reference/research material).

I've been on the interwebs for about 20 years now and I'm not sure how often I've bought the "I'm using someone else's computer who happens to have the same IP address and posts here" line. Frankly, if you have a "friend" who comes over to your house and needs to go on to defend you or recount your talking points on a board *after* you've made a dramatic exit, that just makes the whole thing look as bad if not worse.

If I had an acrimonious feeling about a board and left, and a friend came over and asked if they could pick up the old argument on the board, I'd tell them emphatically that that was a bad idea. Not that such a scenario would ever happen or seem plausible.
According to RR1 (see the oops thread last night) people can in some cases delete threads that they started. And yes, we're talking about mainly Steve Mayo and bgas deleting scans from old posts.
I always read it from the beginning as indicating that sulkers  were taking their toys with them.
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