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Robbie Mac
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« Reply #450 on: May 29, 2016, 09:31:35 PM »

The implication is there.

No. Not at all.

To use your favorite phrase, we will have to agree to disagree, Cam. I am not sure how much more you want.
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« Reply #451 on: May 29, 2016, 09:40:28 PM »

The implication is there.

No. Not at all.

To use your favorite phrase, we will have to agree to disagree, Cam. I am not sure how much more you want.

Just correcting what is false.
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« Reply #452 on: May 29, 2016, 09:59:09 PM »

The implication is there.

No. Not at all.

To use your favorite phrase, we will have to agree to disagree, Cam. I am not sure how much more you want.


From the guy who claims the Beach Boys supported Brian during SMILE.
Just correcting what is false.
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« Reply #453 on: May 30, 2016, 02:21:07 AM »

Booking fees for what, Mr. Mott?

Not for "traveling expenses".  Fees for booking "from the respective venues" for the concert they couldn't attend through no fault of their own. Didn't you read it, Mr. Botwin?  And what does it have to do with the false claim "encouraging fans to sue Brian for their travel expenses due to the postponement"?

Wonder if this differed from venue to venue? I had tickets for Leeds and my refund covered the price of the ticket AND the agency booking fee. Only thing not refunded was the postage, which was about a quid, not worth bothering about. Maybe some venues didn't return booking fees, but I was surprised when I had mine returned and at the time attributed it to Val's call, made on all our behalfs.
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« Reply #454 on: May 30, 2016, 03:19:41 AM »

So it is, basically, TicketMaster fees?
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #455 on: May 30, 2016, 03:42:20 AM »

The implication is there.

No. Not at all.

To use your favorite phrase, we will have to agree to disagree, Cam. I am not sure how much more you want.


From the guy who claims the Beach Boys supported Brian during SMILE.
Just correcting what is false.

Yes. You're welcome.
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« Reply #456 on: May 30, 2016, 06:22:07 AM »

So it is, basically, TicketMaster fees?

Possibly, but definitely not "travel expenses".
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« Reply #457 on: May 30, 2016, 07:07:15 AM »

Wonder if this differed from venue to venue? I had tickets for Leeds and my refund covered the price of the ticket AND the agency booking fee. Only thing not refunded was the postage, which was about a quid, not worth bothering about. Maybe some venues didn't return booking fees, but I was surprised when I had mine returned and at the time attributed it to Val's call, made on all our behalfs.

I recall not getting the booking fee back (£12.10), though I doubt Val's post would have had much influence either way.
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« Reply #458 on: May 30, 2016, 11:33:08 AM »

I just don't really get the outrage. The Austin festival was cancelled. I lost the cost of my hotel room and ticket (the festival claims it will be refunded, but they don't seem to be getting around to it.)
It's annoying, but it's part of life.
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« Reply #459 on: May 30, 2016, 11:46:19 AM »

I just don't really get the outrage. The Austin festival was cancelled. I lost the cost of my hotel room and ticket (the festival claims it will be refunded, but they don't seem to be getting around to it.)
It's annoying, but it's part of life.

I didn't see the thread over at the BBB board, so not sure if there was superfluous amounts of outrage about.  I made a post or two here when it was cancelled, but wasn't that bothered.

Is that the Austin festival that was cancelled because of the weather?  The difference is that Brian was booked into venues in the UK that he couldn't possibly fill.  Then the shows were thus cancelled.  It was a scenario that shouldn't really have happened.
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« Reply #460 on: May 30, 2016, 11:59:48 AM »

I just don't really get the outrage. The Austin festival was cancelled. I lost the cost of my hotel room and ticket (the festival claims it will be refunded, but they don't seem to be getting around to it.)
It's annoying, but it's part of life.

I didn't see the thread over at the BBB board, so not sure if there was superfluous amounts of outrage about.  I made a post or two here when it was cancelled, but wasn't that bothered.

Is that the Austin festival that was cancelled because of the weather?  The difference is that Brian was booked into venues in the UK that he couldn't possibly fill.  Then the shows were thus cancelled.  It was a scenario that shouldn't really have happened.
My impression is that it was cancelled on behalf of a White House event. I guess one can be offended that one is prioritized beneath that. I don't think I would be.
I think I'd be irked at the loss of funds, but I just don't think I'd have a similar level of outrage that I've seen over this. But, to be fair, I'm more passive about money than most people.
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« Reply #461 on: May 30, 2016, 12:19:48 PM »


My impression is that it was cancelled on behalf of a White House event. I guess one can be offended that one is prioritized beneath that. I don't think I would be.
I think I'd be irked at the loss of funds, but I just don't think I'd have a similar level of outrage that I've seen over this. But, to be fair, I'm more passive about money than most people.

Yeah, there was the mental health campaign, where they announced a partnership with the Campaign to Change Direction.  That news came out long after the outrage quoted here.  Besides, I'm not entirely sure the tour was cancelled for that reason.  I should have thought they could've fitted it all in, if the motive was there (Brian played a benefit concert in November, while the UK tour would have been in September).  Would they have cancelled a sellout run of evenings at the Palladium or Festival Hall, let alone a sellout night at the O2 (20,000 seats).  I kinda doubt it.
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« Reply #462 on: May 30, 2016, 12:34:44 PM »


My impression is that it was cancelled on behalf of a White House event. I guess one can be offended that one is prioritized beneath that. I don't think I would be.
I think I'd be irked at the loss of funds, but I just don't think I'd have a similar level of outrage that I've seen over this. But, to be fair, I'm more passive about money than most people.

Yeah, there was the mental health campaign, where they announced a partnership with the Campaign to Change Direction.  That news came out long after the outrage quoted here.  Besides, I'm not entirely sure the tour was cancelled for that reason.  I should have thought they could've fitted it all in, if the motive was there (Brian played a benefit concert in November, while the UK tour would have been in September).  Would they have cancelled a sellout run of evenings at the Palladium or Festival Hall, let alone a sellout night at the O2 (20,000 seats).  I kinda doubt it.
So you think they cancelled because it wasn't going to be profitable?
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« Reply #463 on: May 30, 2016, 12:43:21 PM »


My impression is that it was cancelled on behalf of a White House event. I guess one can be offended that one is prioritized beneath that. I don't think I would be.
I think I'd be irked at the loss of funds, but I just don't think I'd have a similar level of outrage that I've seen over this. But, to be fair, I'm more passive about money than most people.

Yeah, there was the mental health campaign, where they announced a partnership with the Campaign to Change Direction.  That news came out long after the outrage quoted here.  Besides, I'm not entirely sure the tour was cancelled for that reason.  I should have thought they could've fitted it all in, if the motive was there (Brian played a benefit concert in November, while the UK tour would have been in September).  Would they have cancelled a sellout run of evenings at the Palladium or Festival Hall, let alone a sellout night at the O2 (20,000 seats).  I kinda doubt it.
So you think they cancelled because it wasn't going to be profitable?

Shows sometimes get cancelled because of poor ticket sales.  I think it coincided well enough with the mental health campaign that they could cancel the shows and come out of it all looking okay.
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« Reply #464 on: May 30, 2016, 01:08:12 PM »


My impression is that it was cancelled on behalf of a White House event. I guess one can be offended that one is prioritized beneath that. I don't think I would be.
I think I'd be irked at the loss of funds, but I just don't think I'd have a similar level of outrage that I've seen over this. But, to be fair, I'm more passive about money than most people.

Yeah, there was the mental health campaign, where they announced a partnership with the Campaign to Change Direction.  That news came out long after the outrage quoted here.  Besides, I'm not entirely sure the tour was cancelled for that reason.  I should have thought they could've fitted it all in, if the motive was there (Brian played a benefit concert in November, while the UK tour would have been in September).  Would they have cancelled a sellout run of evenings at the Palladium or Festival Hall, let alone a sellout night at the O2 (20,000 seats).  I kinda doubt it.
So you think they cancelled because it wasn't going to be profitable?

Shows sometimes get cancelled because of poor ticket sales.  I think it coincided well enough with the mental health campaign that they could cancel the shows and come out of it all looking okay.

They cancelled to avoid the embarrassment of empty arenas.  It was their fault in the first place booking out those venues.  I was annoyed because I knew I wouldn't have the opportunity to hear Brian sing songs from his then current album.  I really wanted to hear Sail Away and Right Time for example.  I felt the fans were paying for the poor judgement of the management/promoters.
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« Reply #465 on: May 30, 2016, 01:51:07 PM »

Whatever the reasons, Val did not say anything "encouraging fans to sue Brian for their travel expenses due to the postponement" and the charges against Val are false.
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« Reply #466 on: May 30, 2016, 02:10:21 PM »

At work but trying to respond to some of the latest posts here in-between calls.


Looked at the runnerdialzero ban again...looks like he was suspended more than once in 2010, and again in 2013 before the final one. So, he already hit his 3rd one.

Quote
l did not say anything "encouraging fans to sue Brian for their travel expenses due to the postponement[/quote[
From the post quoted, I didn't see anything directly encouraging fans to sue. I could've sworn I saw something on facebook, but, itmight have been someone commenting on the post, if it was.

Quote
I just don't really get the outrage. The Austin festival was cancelled. I lost the cost of my hotel room and ticket (the festival claims it will be refunded, but they don't seem to be getting around to it.)
It's annoying, but it's part of life.

I agree.
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« Reply #467 on: May 30, 2016, 04:13:10 PM »

I just don't really get the outrage. The Austin festival was cancelled. I lost the cost of my hotel room and ticket (the festival claims it will be refunded, but they don't seem to be getting around to it.)
It's annoying, but it's part of life.

Outrage?  Hardly.

Val's was letting the BW management know of some disappointment - from a group of people who've done a lot to support BW and his product for many years, and wanted it known they didn't feel things were handled. 

If you're happy to roll with inconvenience due to undelivered product, that's your value - it's not necessary to belittle others values and their opportunity to speak up about it, filed under the "That's life" category.

There's some really off hyperbole (bordering on smear) in some of the responses about a letter that was no more than a statement of complaint/suggestion to resolve. 

And let's not forget, the letter was raised by Debbie KL as response to a tussle she had unnecessarily started in the first place.



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« Reply #468 on: May 30, 2016, 04:42:20 PM »

I just don't really get the outrage. The Austin festival was cancelled. I lost the cost of my hotel room and ticket (the festival claims it will be refunded, but they don't seem to be getting around to it.)
It's annoying, but it's part of life.

Outrage?  Hardly.

Val's was letting the BW management know of some disappointment - from a group of people who've done a lot to support BW and his product for many years, and wanted it known they didn't feel things were handled.  

If you're happy to roll with inconvenience due to undelivered product, that's your value - it's not necessary to belittle others values and their opportunity to speak up about it, filed under the "That's life" category.

There's some really off hyperbole (bordering on smear) in some of the responses about a letter that was no more than a statement of complaint/suggestion to resolve.  

And let's not forget, the letter was raised by Debbie KL as response to a tussle she had unnecessarily started in the first place.

I was not going to comment to Fire Wind or Mikeddonn's responses, exactly because I agree that a) they have a point about the difference in circumstances and b) I still would have let it go, myself, but I recognize that that may just be me and my values and that the difference is a reasonable one. And, I expressly posted that I'm more passive than most.
But I have to object to your criticizing me for "belittling" others for using their opportunity to speak up in the very minor way that I have while you also criticize and belittle Debbie KL for using hers; and you've criticized and belittled me for using mine in the past.
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« Reply #469 on: May 30, 2016, 05:00:46 PM »


I could've sworn I saw something on facebook, but, itmight have been someone commenting on the post, if it was.


You must be thinking of Val also being falsely accused of advocating "suing" on Facebook by a Jim Schepis and Liz Jones on June 28 in her Facebook post of June 26. False claims that Val pointed out were false at the time. I'd link to it if I knew how to on FB.

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« Reply #470 on: May 30, 2016, 10:27:34 PM »


I could've sworn I saw something on facebook, but, itmight have been someone commenting on the post, if it was.


You must be thinking of Val also being falsely accused of advocating "suing" on Facebook by a Jim Schepis and Liz Jones on June 28 in her Facebook post of June 26. False claims that Val pointed out were false at the time. I'd link to it if I knew how to on FB.



That might be it that I'm thinking of.
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« Reply #471 on: May 31, 2016, 07:54:01 AM »


My impression is that it was cancelled on behalf of a White House event. I guess one can be offended that one is prioritized beneath that. I don't think I would be.
I think I'd be irked at the loss of funds, but I just don't think I'd have a similar level of outrage that I've seen over this. But, to be fair, I'm more passive about money than most people.

Yeah, there was the mental health campaign, where they announced a partnership with the Campaign to Change Direction.  That news came out long after the outrage quoted here.  Besides, I'm not entirely sure the tour was cancelled for that reason.  I should have thought they could've fitted it all in, if the motive was there (Brian played a benefit concert in November, while the UK tour would have been in September).  Would they have cancelled a sellout run of evenings at the Palladium or Festival Hall, let alone a sellout night at the O2 (20,000 seats).  I kinda doubt it.
Actually, if memory serves me correct, I believe the official reason for the cancellation of the UK tour had something to do with the 'overwhelming success of Love and Mercy' it didn't make a lot of sense, and most people pointed to the poor ticket sales in relation to venue capacities as the real reason. My opinion...it was poorly handled by management, and some UK fans were upset by this.
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« Reply #472 on: May 31, 2016, 07:58:12 AM »


My impression is that it was cancelled on behalf of a White House event. I guess one can be offended that one is prioritized beneath that. I don't think I would be.
I think I'd be irked at the loss of funds, but I just don't think I'd have a similar level of outrage that I've seen over this. But, to be fair, I'm more passive about money than most people.

Yeah, there was the mental health campaign, where they announced a partnership with the Campaign to Change Direction.  That news came out long after the outrage quoted here.  Besides, I'm not entirely sure the tour was cancelled for that reason.  I should have thought they could've fitted it all in, if the motive was there (Brian played a benefit concert in November, while the UK tour would have been in September).  Would they have cancelled a sellout run of evenings at the Palladium or Festival Hall, let alone a sellout night at the O2 (20,000 seats).  I kinda doubt it.
Actually, if memory serves me correct, I believe the official reason for the cancellation of the UK tour had something to do with the 'overwhelming success of Love and Mercy' it didn't make a lot of sense, and most people pointed to the poor ticket sales in relation to venue capacities as the real reason. My opinion...it was poorly handled by management, and some UK fans were upset by this.

I'd agree with that.  The lack of an explanation for the cancellation of the UK Tour was just another example of the poor management that has always plagued The Beach Boys, and their band members.  
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« Reply #473 on: May 31, 2016, 08:58:27 AM »


My impression is that it was cancelled on behalf of a White House event. I guess one can be offended that one is prioritized beneath that. I don't think I would be.
I think I'd be irked at the loss of funds, but I just don't think I'd have a similar level of outrage that I've seen over this. But, to be fair, I'm more passive about money than most people.

Yeah, there was the mental health campaign, where they announced a partnership with the Campaign to Change Direction.  That news came out long after the outrage quoted here.  Besides, I'm not entirely sure the tour was cancelled for that reason.  I should have thought they could've fitted it all in, if the motive was there (Brian played a benefit concert in November, while the UK tour would have been in September).  Would they have cancelled a sellout run of evenings at the Palladium or Festival Hall, let alone a sellout night at the O2 (20,000 seats).  I kinda doubt it.
Actually, if memory serves me correct, I believe the official reason for the cancellation of the UK tour had something to do with the 'overwhelming success of Love and Mercy' it didn't make a lot of sense, and most people pointed to the poor ticket sales in relation to venue capacities as the real reason. My opinion...it was poorly handled by management, and some UK fans were upset by this.

Yeah, I don't think it was ever officially claimed that the mental health campaign was the reason for the cancellation, more that it looked like that was the reason in hindsight.

The official reason didn't make sense, but I guess they thought that was better than having headlines in the papers going 'Brian Wilson tour cancelled due to poor ticket sales'.
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« Reply #474 on: May 31, 2016, 09:08:16 AM »

Before you peg this on "poor management", if this happened to another artist, you would get a similar answer. Brian is not unique in this instance.
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