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« Reply #325 on: May 26, 2016, 10:27:20 AM »

The one thing I'll side with Val on is that Brian's management did a terrible job in the wake of the postponement of the UK Tour.  

No real reason was given.  And I could imagine UK fans being extremely annoyed once more US dates starting being announced in the Fall.  

Granted, we found out the excuse was valid due to Brian and Melinda's charity work, but that wasn't found out until months later.  

Andy,

I'll agree that fans were entitled to a only a full refund, but an explanation would've been nice, and would've smoothed things over a lot better.  

Was Val's request realistic or warranted?  Not really.  But, I think it falls very short of blackmail.  
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« Reply #326 on: May 26, 2016, 10:36:55 AM »

I get that UK fans were pissed off, and Brian and management could have offered even a token gesture to fans over the disappointment and inconvenience.

But that “plea” isn’t realistic at all, nor particularly strategic. The plea implies dishonesty as to the stated reasons for the tour’s cancelation, pointing to excessively sized venues being booked (e.g. poor ticket sales resulting). But if that indeed was the case, the whole point of canceling the tour would be to nip those financial losses in the bud, for the promoter (more than anyone else probably) and everyone losing money. Sending Brian and his band over to the UK to jam with British Beach Boys fans, or whatever that pitch was, would just be a huge outlay of funds.

Separately, I can’t imagine writing *that* type of “plea”, insulting management and then expecting them to send over Brian’s band for a jolly jam session. Maybe Brian’s management deserved to be insulted. But I think when someone is pissed about something like that tour cancelation, you either have to just post whatever cathartic diatribe you need to and cut your losses, or suck it up and play nice with management if you’re trying to collect a fan base to work with management to mitigate the problem.

The ”plea” doesn’t ask or tell fans to sue Brian (and really, any lawsuits would probably be targeted at the promoters of the shows anyway, not Brian, and all lawsuits of that sort would likely fail anyway), but I’m not sure what exactly “recompense” and “acknowledgment of losses” would entail then. What, hire a CPA to collect receipts from fans and reimburse them? That’s a logistical and legal nightmare. What if someone booked a hotel, but chose to book the most expensive room or hotel? Do they also have to prove they’ve canceled the hotel room? Which costs would be reimbursed? Car rental? Airfare?

Any figurehead of a large fan base who wanted to see management make a situation right in any way (even the aforementioned token gesture; a free song download, coupon codes, etc.), and who had a good standing relationship with management, would have worked through back channels and/or privately instead of calling management out publicly and, I guess, trying to apply public pressure for management to do something. Why they posted that message on a board that gets maybe 5 or 10% (I’m guessing) of the traffic of the most popular BB forum, I don’t know.

Hey Jude - generally fans are not so sophisticated to think of blaming a promoter. Maybe the frustration was sent in the wrong direction.  They see the ticket for a favorite performer/s which won't be a reality. And, they are frustrated and venting.  Sometimes, we all just need to vent.  

Frankly I never thought of a "download" of a song or a coupon code, with a refund.  That is a really good idea. It is just goodwill that has to be rebuilt. You never want to lose your goodwill in business. Some "marginal" fans won't be back even if the "diehards" just let it roll off their backs.    

And, I've been there and can access that feeling of profound disappointment. The UK has great fans who really "got" Pet Sounds, and could not be more loyal. They may think in a differently from US fans in terms of what would make the best of a bad situation.  That and this board are run by volunteers who have outside lives. Anyway, the UK tour went forward and things are now better.          
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 10:41:14 AM by filledeplage » Logged
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« Reply #327 on: May 26, 2016, 11:32:59 AM »

I would like to see a change of moderators at Smiley Smile, and here’s why:

The Smiley Smile message board is sick for two reasons. First, its content is largely focused on itself, its members, and the drama perpetuated by them. Secondly, multiple voices are missing for various reasons. Some of these are prominent ones (Ray, Andrew, and Lee, to name but three).

When the board is at its best, content is mostly on topic (relating to the music, history, and current events), and all viewpoints and all voices are made to feel welcome. It doesn’t seem likely Smiley Smile will get to that point as things stand today.

The problem I believe is due to the nature of fanatics. Their passion keeps the place alive, but they can also be divisive and stubborn. Viewpoints, and the way in which they are expressed, can become extreme to the point of being hurtful to others and unhealthy for the board. So the passion must be protected but at the same time moderated.

Moderators are so important. That is a nearly impossible balance to maintain, and the only way a person can do it is to always be on the case, and to always be impartial – both in reality and perception. I don’t believe a moderator gets the luxury of having a “moderator” hat and a “regular poster” hat. I also think that really sucks, and I have compassion for Billy and Craig for this reason (not that they asked for it).

In my opinion a moderator should never be perceived to be the one who has an axe to grind. Moderators should negotiate truces with others who are doing the grinding.

I think both Craig and Billy believe in their hearts that they have been impartial and consistent. But in my estimation after reading this thread and many others, that is not the perception of probably half of the active membership. That is not an irrefutable statistical analysis of course, it’s just the way it appears to me.

I will leave aside the controversy of how bans were executed (personally, I don’t believe in any conspiracies). My point is that even assuming nothing improper was done on a procedural level, the perception is still widespread (not unanimous of course, but significantly widespread) that the current moderators have failed in the ways I have outlined.

For those reasons I believe that new moderators should be elected/appointed. At the least, I believe Craig should be replaced as moderator. I do not believe that he has the ability to heal the board and what’s more I believe he has added to the sickness for the reasons explained above. I say this with pain, as I have long admired and been in awe of Craig as a “regular poster.”

To summarize: I believe that the board should be more heavily moderated by new people with consistency to ensure that content stays on topic and healthy, and done so in a manner where the majority of folks (at least a heck of a lot better than it is right now) perceive this to be the case.
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« Reply #328 on: May 26, 2016, 11:33:34 AM »

A few footnotes to my above post:

It was very difficult for me to post that. By nature I dislike personal conflict and I have no wish to be hurtful to Craig or Billy personally. But I did it anyway and I acknowledge that, and I am sorry.

I acknowledge that it is most likely impossible to find new moderators, especially those like I described in my post. They’re unicorns. This isn’t a paid position.  So yeah, I acknowledge that I spoke about a problem without offering a well thought-out or feasible solution.

In spite of those misgivings, I said what I said because I felt I had to. The culture is just so bad now that I felt I had to add my voice, and that reason trumped everything else. Just in case we have any chance of improving things around here. I did what I felt was right. Even if I was wrong.

Finally, because of my first point (about disliking personal conflict), and because I simply don’t spend as much time on this board as many others do, I will very likely not read or respond to PMs or engage much more on this topic past these posts. I acknowledge I am now open to criticism and censure by the rest of you, but I accept that and I’m determined to just let it be.
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« Reply #329 on: May 26, 2016, 11:42:30 AM »

I could not disagree more. Particularly with reference to the posters whom are absent. I can't speak for the one's whom exercise choice but for those that are banned what would change? You want them un-banned as a result of moderators being changed? I think that point underlines at least the majority of why this thread has gained traction.
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« Reply #330 on: May 26, 2016, 11:43:54 AM »

A few footnotes to my above post:

It was very difficult for me to post that. By nature I dislike personal conflict and I have no wish to be hurtful to Craig or Billy personally. But I did it anyway and I acknowledge that, and I am sorry.

I acknowledge that it is most likely impossible to find new moderators, especially those like I described in my post. They’re unicorns. This isn’t a paid position.  So yeah, I acknowledge that I spoke about a problem without offering a well thought-out or feasible solution.

In spite of those misgivings, I said what I said because I felt I had to. The culture is just so bad now that I felt I had to add my voice, and that reason trumped everything else. Just in case we have any chance of improving things around here. I did what I felt was right. Even if I was wrong.

Finally, because of my first point (about disliking personal conflict), and because I simply don’t spend as much time on this board as many others do, I will very likely not read or respond to PMs or engage much more on this topic past these posts. I acknowledge I am now open to criticism and censure by the rest of you, but I accept that and I’m determined to just let it be.


Off topic, but hello from a fellow Baltimorean. 
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« Reply #331 on: May 26, 2016, 12:59:51 PM »

A few footnotes to my above post:

It was very difficult for me to post that. By nature I dislike personal conflict and I have no wish to be hurtful to Craig or Billy personally. But I did it anyway and I acknowledge that, and I am sorry.

I acknowledge that it is most likely impossible to find new moderators, especially those like I described in my post. They’re unicorns. This isn’t a paid position.  So yeah, I acknowledge that I spoke about a problem without offering a well thought-out or feasible solution.

In spite of those misgivings, I said what I said because I felt I had to. The culture is just so bad now that I felt I had to add my voice, and that reason trumped everything else. Just in case we have any chance of improving things around here. I did what I felt was right. Even if I was wrong.

Finally, because of my first point (about disliking personal conflict), and because I simply don’t spend as much time on this board as many others do, I will very likely not read or respond to PMs or engage much more on this topic past these posts. I acknowledge I am now open to criticism and censure by the rest of you, but I accept that and I’m determined to just let it be.


It did hurt me , but thank you for being honest
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« Reply #332 on: May 26, 2016, 01:20:49 PM »

I'll say it. It was blackmail and manipulation.

Can't see a threat of punishment therein if the BW management doesn't comply = not blackmail.
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« Reply #333 on: May 26, 2016, 02:09:39 PM »

Quote
The issue I have with moderation here is the posters who are allowed to continually derail threads with the same gripes or personal attacks on band members.

Definitely understand that, which is one of the reasons why I have been more active lately, even though it got me into a bit of trouble at work. For me,the one thing that I absolutely draw the line at is when band members, i.e. not Mike & Brian, but the band members...anyway...attacks on them to me should be off-limits, if it's a case where said member was being attacked just because they're in so-and-so's band.

So I can't call Mike, Gigantic Douche Coupe? Sad

I only remember Totten and Cowsill from any of the bands participating on the board, who all have I missed/forgotten?

Edit: You forgot Brian, Cam. Oh yeah, duh.
Adam Jardine has popped in once or twice.  or once.

I don't recall Adam Jardine posting here (could be wrong, though). Matt Jardine has posted on occasion, and when he has, he has offered some pretty interesting information (a few updates on recording with Brian, and in the past insights into the logistics of doing live shows, etc.). There was a particularly interesting post where he (somewhat) defended all of the various "falsetto" guys in the band over the years and explained some of the difficulties in singing those harmony parts in concert.
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« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 07:23:25 PM by Alan Smith » Logged

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« Reply #334 on: May 26, 2016, 02:58:16 PM »

Debbie - at no time, do I recall that Val encouraged legal action with respect to Brian's tour in the UK.  I did read a lot of frustration with posters who had arranged vacations and time off, to coincide with the tour.  I went back to last June (26) to see her "A Plea to the Management/Promoters of the Brian Wilson Tour in the UK" and re-read what Val posted.  It is around page 19 of the BBB site.  

There was an initial complaint by some other fans, that some fee associated with the ticket was not to be refunded and then it was.  My impression was that the fans were venting at the news.  I can well remember my colossal disappointment when the Maharishi tour was cancelled the afternoon of that show.  I read frustration and disappointment in those posts which I can identify with after having experienced the same alongside the uncertainty of whether they would be back performing in the area any time soon.  
  

This?

"A PLEA TO THE MANAGEMENT/PROMOTERS OF THE BRIAN WILSON TOUR IN THE UK
Posted on June 26, 2015 at 11:10:51 by Val

I do feel that I need to speak out on behalf of all the fans who have been bitterly disappointed by the latest news of the cancellation of Brian's UK Tour and feel that some acknowledgment of losses is due.

As many have stated below, when this tour was announced, we all thought that the venues were WAY too large for "Our Brian". Please note that we don't blame Brian personally and in fact we are fairly sure that this is nothing to do with any decision made by him.

I do feel though, that is it a pretty poor show when fans have to book time off at their jobs, way in advance and they also have to book flights and hotels (most of which is non refundable) and then to add insult to injury, we are advised that although we should all get our money back from the respective venues, the booking fees charged will not be refunded!

This is causing an awful lot of bad feeling among fans, along with feelings that Management should surely have known better than to do this in the first place and sadly, it shows us that the fans have not been considered in this venture, compounding that feeling by the "Announcement" on Brian's Pages (and really, so NOT from Brian Wilson himself!) which I believe many fans take to be an insult to their intelligence.

It really saddens me to write this, but shame on you BW Management - and I would love to see some form of recompense for the fans, who have lost such a lot through your poor judgement.

Surely, even a "residency" at The Royal Festival Hall in London for a few nights, with a show or two in Scotland and maybe Birmingham, would have been the best decision made and would have saved face?

A Jam Session/Charity Gig with our lovely Beach Boys Britain Musicians and Brian's Musicians would be the icing on the cake, to heal some very open wounds right now and I would be delighted to work with you on this.

Sent with Love and Respect.

Val Johnson-Howe
Beach Boys Britain"

Pretty tame stuff really and little more than a complaint to the management.

Those who think it's more than that, go get some sunshine, or speak to Deadpool about tips for gettin' more action.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 07:30:52 PM by Alan Smith » Logged

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« Reply #335 on: May 26, 2016, 03:02:53 PM »

When a tread like this, which had ZERO chance of not becoming a bitch session to begin with, becomes the most talked about thread on a Beach Boy message board it just is further proof this board is going to hell. Lots of long time fans, who were there when the hits were new, who are no longer around for whatever reason, leave a board the board looses it's life. The knowledge they had is lost. Young new members come along, not a bad thing, but they were not there at the beginning. They don't know what went on or why something happened. The board then gets filled with all kinds of wrong, crazy "theories" about what happened and why. This board is suffering from that now. It will get worse as more time passes. You can't lose the "old timers" and prosper under these conditions. This board, like any board, needs them back. Threads they shared, full of knowledge, are being deleted..in talking to others who are still around more of these threads are going to be deleted.
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« Reply #336 on: May 26, 2016, 03:15:48 PM »

When a tread like this, which had ZERO chance of not becoming a bitch session to begin with, becomes the most talked about thread on a Beach Boy message board it just is further proof this board is going to hell. Lots of long time fans, who were there when the hits were new, who are no longer around for whatever reason, leave a board the board looses it's life. The knowledge they had is lost. Young new members come along, not a bad thing, but they were not there at the beginning. They don't know what went on or why something happened. The board then gets filled with all kinds of wrong, crazy "theories" about what happened and why. This board is suffering from that now. It will get worse as more time passes. You can't lose the "old timers" and prosper under these conditions. This board, like any board, needs them back. Threads they shared, full of knowledge, are being deleted..in talking to others who are still around more of these threads are going to be deleted.
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« Reply #337 on: May 26, 2016, 03:22:26 PM »

Debbie - at no time, do I recall that Val encouraged legal action with respect to Brian's tour in the UK.  I did read a lot of frustration with posters who had arranged vacations and time off, to coincide with the tour.  I went back to last June (26) to see her "A Plea to the Management/Promoters of the Brian Wilson Tour in the UK" and re-read what Val posted.  It is around page 19 of the BBB site.  

There was an initial complaint by some other fans, that some fee associated with the ticket was not to be refunded and then it was.  My impression was that the fans were venting at the news.  I can well remember my colossal disappointment when the Maharishi tour was cancelled the afternoon of that show.  I read frustration and disappointment in those posts which I can identify with after having experienced the same alongside the uncertainty of whether they would be back performing in the area any time soon.  
  

This?

"A PLEA TO THE MANAGEMENT/PROMOTERS OF THE BRIAN WILSON TOUR IN THE UK
Posted on June 26, 2015 at 11:10:51 by Val

I do feel that I need to speak out on behalf of all the fans who have been bitterly disappointed by the latest news of the cancellation of Brian's UK Tour and feel that some acknowledgment of losses is due.

As many have stated below, when this tour was announced, we all thought that the venues were WAY too large for "Our Brian". Please note that we don't blame Brian personally and in fact we are fairly sure that this is nothing to do with any decision made by him.

I do feel though, that is it a pretty poor show when fans have to book time off at their jobs, way in advance and they also have to book flights and hotels (most of which is non refundable) and then to add insult to injury, we are advised that although we should all get our money back from the respective venues, the booking fees charged will not be refunded!

This is causing an awful lot of bad feeling among fans, along with feelings that Management should surely have known better than to do this in the first place and sadly, it shows us that the fans have not been considered in this venture, compounding that feeling by the "Announcement" on Brian's Pages (and really, so NOT from Brian Wilson himself!) which I believe many fans take to be an insult to their intelligence.

It really saddens me to write this, but shame on you BW Management - and I would love to see some form of recompense for the fans, who have lost such a lot through your poor judgement.

Surely, even a "residency" at The Royal Festival Hall in London for a few nights, with a show or two in Scotland and maybe Birmingham, would have been the best decision made and would have saved face?

A Jam Session/Charity Gig with our lovely Beach Boys Britain Musicians and Brian's Musicians would be the icing on the cake, to heal some very open wounds right now and I would be delighted to work with you on this.

Sent with Love and Respect.

Val Johnson-Howe
Beach Boys Britain"

Pretty tame stuff really and little more than a complaint to the management.

Those who think it's more than that, go get some sunshine, or speak to Deadpool about tips for gettin' more action.

If they think that letter from Val is blackmail they're going on my naughty list.
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« Reply #338 on: May 26, 2016, 04:24:48 PM »

After reading this thread, and debating whether or not to resign as moderator, I've made my final decision.

I've been a member on this board since Christmas Eve 2005, and was modded the following year. In that time, I've made some great friends, and learned more about my favorite band than most people will in their lifetimes. I've also met a few people who I quite frankly cannot stand, but overlooked my intense dislike for those few bad seeds and have always been objective in my duties as a moderator. I know that likely a few of you just shook your head, but more on that later.  I thought long and hard what the board would be like with a different moderator, if I just rode off into the sunset and concentrate on my  family , my job, and my own music career. You know, there's an increasing amount of people who would be over the moon. So yeah, maybe this board would be better without me. So, I guess this is a roundabout way of me saying...I'm sure as hell not going anywhere. I've realized that many of the people I'm referring to will *never* give me a fair shot. So be it. I'm not staying here for them. I mean, the fact that I've sat by and had to ban one of my closest friends of well over a decade because we felt it was the right thing to do, and yet have a couple of people slide who have disrespected me time and time again, because they haven't broken any rules...I mean, you'd think that would be enough for people to know what kind of person I actually am, but hey...what do I know? I mean, some people obviously know me so much better than I do, right? Well, like I said, I'm not going anywhere. I accept the fact that I will never be able to change their minds about me. So, bluntly put, the hell with them.  For the rest of us, I have a challenge...you want this board to be a better place? It's easy...MAKE it a better place. Like the saying goes, if you want a friend, BE a friend. I'm directing this at everybody, including myself. We ALL need to quit bitching about things that happened a couple of years ago, and holding so many damn grudges. You know what? I don't give a flying flip who started what any longer. All I care about now is finishing it, and us all moving on. We're all supposed to be fans of the greatest bands in history, right? SO...why do we act like complete jerks to each other?  Can we please just freaking end this already?!

For me, modding this board is a labor of love. Lately, it's been more labor than love. But, I'm not throwing in the towel; Brian's music means too much for me for that, and I owe him better than that.* Yeah, this is personal for me. I hear the words 'Brian's music saved my life' a lot. Well, in my case, it's literal...I would not be typing this today (or anything for that matter) if I hadn't discovered Pet Sounds 20 years ago. So to be a moderator on the most active BB board is near and dear to me. I'm not willing to throw that away.


* and to answer the next question that I'm sure is going to head my way...yes, despite being a fan of Brian first and then the band doesn't mean I can't be objective. Anybody who's talked to me at length off the board knows how strongly I feel Imagination is by far the second worst BB solo album ever, and would be the worst if Going Public didn't exist *shudder*. Conversely, I really most of Looking Back with Love, title track aside. And my favorite period of the Beach Boys was 1967-1972, which featured less Brian involvement.
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« Reply #339 on: May 26, 2016, 06:03:45 PM »

I would like to see a change of moderators at Smiley Smile, and here’s why:

The Smiley Smile message board is sick for two reasons. First, its content is largely focused on itself, its members, and the drama perpetuated by them. Secondly, multiple voices are missing for various reasons. Some of these are prominent ones (Ray, Andrew, and Lee, to name but three).

When the board is at its best, content is mostly on topic (relating to the music, history, and current events), and all viewpoints and all voices are made to feel welcome. It doesn’t seem likely Smiley Smile will get to that point as things stand today.

The problem I believe is due to the nature of fanatics. Their passion keeps the place alive, but they can also be divisive and stubborn. Viewpoints, and the way in which they are expressed, can become extreme to the point of being hurtful to others and unhealthy for the board. So the passion must be protected but at the same time moderated.

Moderators are so important. That is a nearly impossible balance to maintain, and the only way a person can do it is to always be on the case, and to always be impartial – both in reality and perception. I don’t believe a moderator gets the luxury of having a “moderator” hat and a “regular poster” hat. I also think that really sucks, and I have compassion for Billy and Craig for this reason (not that they asked for it).

In my opinion a moderator should never be perceived to be the one who has an axe to grind. Moderators should negotiate truces with others who are doing the grinding.

I think both Craig and Billy believe in their hearts that they have been impartial and consistent. But in my estimation after reading this thread and many others, that is not the perception of probably half of the active membership. That is not an irrefutable statistical analysis of course, it’s just the way it appears to me.

I will leave aside the controversy of how bans were executed (personally, I don’t believe in any conspiracies). My point is that even assuming nothing improper was done on a procedural level, the perception is still widespread (not unanimous of course, but significantly widespread) that the current moderators have failed in the ways I have outlined.

For those reasons I believe that new moderators should be elected/appointed. At the least, I believe Craig should be replaced as moderator. I do not believe that he has the ability to heal the board and what’s more I believe he has added to the sickness for the reasons explained above. I say this with pain, as I have long admired and been in awe of Craig as a “regular poster.”

To summarize: I believe that the board should be more heavily moderated by new people with consistency to ensure that content stays on topic and healthy, and done so in a manner where the majority of folks (at least a heck of a lot better than it is right now) perceive this to be the case.

Weak, just weak. Looks like someone wants a police state or a dictatorship here.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #340 on: May 26, 2016, 06:42:11 PM »

I would like to see a change of moderators at Smiley Smile, and here’s why:

The Smiley Smile message board is sick for two reasons. First, its content is largely focused on itself, its members, and the drama perpetuated by them. Secondly, multiple voices are missing for various reasons. Some of these are prominent ones (Ray, Andrew, and Lee, to name but three).

When the board is at its best, content is mostly on topic (relating to the music, history, and current events), and all viewpoints and all voices are made to feel welcome. It doesn’t seem likely Smiley Smile will get to that point as things stand today.

The problem I believe is due to the nature of fanatics. Their passion keeps the place alive, but they can also be divisive and stubborn. Viewpoints, and the way in which they are expressed, can become extreme to the point of being hurtful to others and unhealthy for the board. So the passion must be protected but at the same time moderated.

Moderators are so important. That is a nearly impossible balance to maintain, and the only way a person can do it is to always be on the case, and to always be impartial – both in reality and perception. I don’t believe a moderator gets the luxury of having a “moderator” hat and a “regular poster” hat. I also think that really sucks, and I have compassion for Billy and Craig for this reason (not that they asked for it).

In my opinion a moderator should never be perceived to be the one who has an axe to grind. Moderators should negotiate truces with others who are doing the grinding.

I think both Craig and Billy believe in their hearts that they have been impartial and consistent. But in my estimation after reading this thread and many others, that is not the perception of probably half of the active membership. That is not an irrefutable statistical analysis of course, it’s just the way it appears to me.

I will leave aside the controversy of how bans were executed (personally, I don’t believe in any conspiracies). My point is that even assuming nothing improper was done on a procedural level, the perception is still widespread (not unanimous of course, but significantly widespread) that the current moderators have failed in the ways I have outlined.

For those reasons I believe that new moderators should be elected/appointed. At the least, I believe Craig should be replaced as moderator. I do not believe that he has the ability to heal the board and what’s more I believe he has added to the sickness for the reasons explained above. I say this with pain, as I have long admired and been in awe of Craig as a “regular poster.”

To summarize: I believe that the board should be more heavily moderated by new people with consistency to ensure that content stays on topic and healthy, and done so in a manner where the majority of folks (at least a heck of a lot better than it is right now) perceive this to be the case.

Weak, just weak. Looks like someone wants a police state or a dictatorship here.  Roll Eyes

It's really sweet and commendable of you to stick up for Craig in that way. But I don't think it helps, at all, given your own role in the way the board's rep took a dip. Just the opposite in fact.

I reluctantly agree with Catbirdman. I think for the good of the board, Craig ought to step down. Excellent poster, one of the best informed here and his academic knowledge of the whole scene far outstrips my own. But I and it seems others just don't have confidence in his ability to moderate fairly, and I for one cannot separate the mod from the member.

I'm deeply sorry to say that; hate to see this kind of thing on our board. But things need to move forward.
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« Reply #341 on: May 26, 2016, 06:47:25 PM »

Billy and Craig ain't going nowhere!!! Cool
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« Reply #342 on: May 26, 2016, 07:20:57 PM »

.
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« Reply #343 on: May 26, 2016, 07:26:37 PM »

.
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« Reply #344 on: May 26, 2016, 07:29:18 PM »

I would like to see a change of moderators at Smiley Smile, and here’s why:

The Smiley Smile message board is sick for two reasons. First, its content is largely focused on itself, its members, and the drama perpetuated by them. Secondly, multiple voices are missing for various reasons. Some of these are prominent ones (Ray, Andrew, and Lee, to name but three).

When the board is at its best, content is mostly on topic (relating to the music, history, and current events), and all viewpoints and all voices are made to feel welcome. It doesn’t seem likely Smiley Smile will get to that point as things stand today.

The problem I believe is due to the nature of fanatics. Their passion keeps the place alive, but they can also be divisive and stubborn. Viewpoints, and the way in which they are expressed, can become extreme to the point of being hurtful to others and unhealthy for the board. So the passion must be protected but at the same time moderated.

Moderators are so important. That is a nearly impossible balance to maintain, and the only way a person can do it is to always be on the case, and to always be impartial – both in reality and perception. I don’t believe a moderator gets the luxury of having a “moderator” hat and a “regular poster” hat. I also think that really sucks, and I have compassion for Billy and Craig for this reason (not that they asked for it).

In my opinion a moderator should never be perceived to be the one who has an axe to grind. Moderators should negotiate truces with others who are doing the grinding.

I think both Craig and Billy believe in their hearts that they have been impartial and consistent. But in my estimation after reading this thread and many others, that is not the perception of probably half of the active membership. That is not an irrefutable statistical analysis of course, it’s just the way it appears to me.

I will leave aside the controversy of how bans were executed (personally, I don’t believe in any conspiracies). My point is that even assuming nothing improper was done on a procedural level, the perception is still widespread (not unanimous of course, but significantly widespread) that the current moderators have failed in the ways I have outlined.

For those reasons I believe that new moderators should be elected/appointed. At the least, I believe Craig should be replaced as moderator. I do not believe that he has the ability to heal the board and what’s more I believe he has added to the sickness for the reasons explained above. I say this with pain, as I have long admired and been in awe of Craig as a “regular poster.”

To summarize: I believe that the board should be more heavily moderated by new people with consistency to ensure that content stays on topic and healthy, and done so in a manner where the majority of folks (at least a heck of a lot better than it is right now) perceive this to be the case.

Weak, just weak. Looks like someone wants a police state or a dictatorship here.  Roll Eyes

It's really sweet and commendable of you to stick up for Craig in that way. But I don't think it helps, at all, given your own role in the way the board's rep took a dip. Just the opposite in fact.

I reluctantly agree with Catbirdman. I think for the good of the board, Craig ought to step down. Excellent poster, one of the best informed here and his academic knowledge of the whole scene far outstrips my own. But I and it seems others just don't have confidence in his ability to moderate fairly, and I for one cannot separate the mod from the member.

I'm deeply sorry to say that; hate to see this kind of thing on our board. But things need to move forward.

Move forward?? I'll tell you how to move it forward. Stop the pathetic calls for moderation change and hoping it will be the "cure all" for all your own deep seated problems. If anything needs to move forward it's those of you who prefer ganging up on someone you disagree with. Be damn careful of what you wish for and get back to the task at hand, posting and not getting your panties in a bunch like old bitties who gossip and have nothing better to do with their time. Moderators do what they have to do and we do what we do. Talk about a "dip" on the board, hardy har, har, har.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #345 on: May 26, 2016, 08:12:04 PM »

.

lol
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« Reply #346 on: May 26, 2016, 08:24:46 PM »

I would like to see a change of moderators at Smiley Smile, and here’s why:

The Smiley Smile message board is sick for two reasons. First, its content is largely focused on itself, its members, and the drama perpetuated by them. Secondly, multiple voices are missing for various reasons. Some of these are prominent ones (Ray, Andrew, and Lee, to name but three).

When the board is at its best, content is mostly on topic (relating to the music, history, and current events), and all viewpoints and all voices are made to feel welcome. It doesn’t seem likely Smiley Smile will get to that point as things stand today.

The problem I believe is due to the nature of fanatics. Their passion keeps the place alive, but they can also be divisive and stubborn. Viewpoints, and the way in which they are expressed, can become extreme to the point of being hurtful to others and unhealthy for the board. So the passion must be protected but at the same time moderated.

Moderators are so important. That is a nearly impossible balance to maintain, and the only way a person can do it is to always be on the case, and to always be impartial – both in reality and perception. I don’t believe a moderator gets the luxury of having a “moderator” hat and a “regular poster” hat. I also think that really sucks, and I have compassion for Billy and Craig for this reason (not that they asked for it).

In my opinion a moderator should never be perceived to be the one who has an axe to grind. Moderators should negotiate truces with others who are doing the grinding.

I think both Craig and Billy believe in their hearts that they have been impartial and consistent. But in my estimation after reading this thread and many others, that is not the perception of probably half of the active membership. That is not an irrefutable statistical analysis of course, it’s just the way it appears to me.

I will leave aside the controversy of how bans were executed (personally, I don’t believe in any conspiracies). My point is that even assuming nothing improper was done on a procedural level, the perception is still widespread (not unanimous of course, but significantly widespread) that the current moderators have failed in the ways I have outlined.

For those reasons I believe that new moderators should be elected/appointed. At the least, I believe Craig should be replaced as moderator. I do not believe that he has the ability to heal the board and what’s more I believe he has added to the sickness for the reasons explained above. I say this with pain, as I have long admired and been in awe of Craig as a “regular poster.”

To summarize: I believe that the board should be more heavily moderated by new people with consistency to ensure that content stays on topic and healthy, and done so in a manner where the majority of folks (at least a heck of a lot better than it is right now) perceive this to be the case.

Weak, just weak. Looks like someone wants a police state or a dictatorship here.  Roll Eyes

It's really sweet and commendable of you to stick up for Craig in that way. But I don't think it helps, at all, given your own role in the way the board's rep took a dip. Just the opposite in fact.

I reluctantly agree with Catbirdman. I think for the good of the board, Craig ought to step down. Excellent poster, one of the best informed here and his academic knowledge of the whole scene far outstrips my own. But I and it seems others just don't have confidence in his ability to moderate fairly, and I for one cannot separate the mod from the member.

I'm deeply sorry to say that; hate to see this kind of thing on our board. But things need to move forward.

Move forward?? I'll tell you how to move it forward. Stop the pathetic calls for moderation change and hoping it will be the "cure all" for all your own deep seated problems. If anything needs to move forward it's those of you who prefer ganging up on someone you disagree with. Be damn careful of what you wish for and get back to the task at hand, posting and not getting your panties in a bunch like old bitties who gossip and have nothing better to do with their time. Moderators do what they have to do and we do what we do. Talk about a "dip" on the board, hardy har, har, har.  Roll Eyes

LePage's family was threatened (albeit a while ago, but I think this information only recently came out) by a now perma-banned poster, disgusting rumors regarding Melinda Wilson were spread to fans via PM by a now perma-banned poster, a poster recently admitted they openly mock Brian and Melinda to prove a point about Mike (even though this person supposedly loves Brian more than he loves his own family members), Mike's Beard came back using an IP scrambler to mock Debbie KL yet again and to irritate the moderators. A respected poster followed Debbie KL around from thread to thread mocking her enthusiasm. Some Brian fans were compared to suicide bombers by a now perma-banned member. YET Guitarfool is supposedly the problem here. These people calling for Guitarfool to step down seem to be more irritated at Guitarfool than they are with the people involved in the incidents above...in fact they seem to want some of these people back on the board!

When there is a page long discussion on the LENGTH of Guitarfool's posts you can see how ridiculous this whole farce is. It's nothing but a witch-hunt, ganging up as OSD called it. It's fairly sad.

I think this advice from Billy is the best thing that can happen to this board:

Quote
For the rest of us, I have a challenge...you want this board to be a better place? It's easy...MAKE it a better place. Like the saying goes, if you want a friend, BE a friend. I'm directing this at everybody, including myself.

I can certainly make an attempt to be more positive around here. I hope others can too.
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« Reply #347 on: May 26, 2016, 08:52:19 PM »

Billy, we haven't interacted much (but for once or twice when you were exceedingly nice) but you are probably the sweetest, most wonderful person I have never met. Don't go anywhere, and don't give up. You rock in all of the best ways.  Smiley

Backing band members getting flack: A few years ago, Foskett was raked over the coals on a daily basis. I can't believe no one else has brought this up yet. He's almost a Beach Boy at this point, and I'm not sure if he isn't really the newest "member" since Blondie and Ricky, so no disrespect if he's now in a sort of "Billy Hinsche" land. But I've never heard anyone say a bad word about Billy H, and Foskett has been insulted to the core of his being on this board. It's completely died down recently... For some reason... But it used to be a Big Deal. Frankly, I don't like his voice with the Brian Wilson band, but I just wanted to remind y'all that it used to be a regular occurrence.

I'm putting this at the end so people read everything else first, and I know the rest of you don't give a Ding Dang what I have to say, but... GuitarFriend used to be one of my favorite posters when I first joined during the TSS release buildup. Consistently informative and friendly and, while verbose, always worth a read. Man, it's different these days. You must not be enjoying it, GF, because it certainly doesn't come across that way. And as Catbirdman so eloquently put it, the board (and its members) suffer. Additionally, I don't like that you've had a posse assembled against you. But I can't see this board moving past this at some point if SOMETHING doesn't change.

I don't advocate for any banned poster's return, although I still don't know why RDZ was banned and he tickled me in all of the best, tickliest ways (and Ontor has turned mean and prickly, like the rest of us). But DAMN, what are we gonna do? Something has to give, because it does us no good if half the fanbase avoids the only true Beach Boys message board-- and this is spreading beyond just the banned posters now .

Anyway, this thread will be dead soon because I posted in it, so my parting words are-- I would be thrilled to meet any Beach Boy or backing band member (past or present) and they would deeply regret having spent any time with me, so I think I'm immune from any conspiracy theories or accusations of impartiality. You need friends to be part of a conspiracy.

- Evan Geibel
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« Reply #348 on: May 27, 2016, 03:53:05 AM »

No offense to Charles, but I would have to see some actual evidence for a charge as serious as someone threatening a family (or potential libel or bullying), not just an accusation on a message board.

Speaking of accusations on a message board:

Is there an open letter or any evidence that Val Johnson-Howe was "encouraging fans to sue Brian for their travel expenses"?

What offense or rules violation resulted in The Cincinnati Kids' suspension?



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« Reply #349 on: May 27, 2016, 05:06:38 AM »

No offense to Charles, but I would have to see some actual evidence for a charge as serious as someone threatening a family (or potential libel or bullying), not just an accusation on a message board.

This is why I've been advocating for a list of every ban for the last three years that includes the details/evidence behind each of those bans (though I do realize the threat against Charles' family had nothing to do with a ban that I know of). But the AGD banning for sure. Since some people obviously don't trust Billy or Charles on this matter I think that bringing forth evidence would clear up a lot of speculation and distrust.

And heck, perhaps the mods don't have the time for such a list; so instead they could make a list of the most prominent members that were banned. Such as Runnersdialzero - I too have no idea why he was banned, and frankly I miss his presence on this board a lot.
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God must’ve smiled the day Brian Wilson was born!

"ragegasm" - /rāj • ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.

Ever want to hear some Beach Boys songs mashed up together like The Beatles' 'LOVE' album? Check out my mix!
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