Thread for arguments with or about moderation

[Cam Mott]

Show us what proof you have that members were banned as a result of arguing with me.

I'd like to know what rule the Cincinnati Kid broke to deserve a suspension in the "Why Do You Hate Mike Love?" thread and what the mod log shows in that regard.

he was suspended for 7 days , Aug of last year. Rules were updated earlier this year.

Does it say which old rule (or new) he broke though, or what his violation was? 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

At this point, does it matter? It's been almost a year ago. have had absolutely no issues since, him and I are good.

[You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered]

The issue I have with moderation here is the posters who are allowed to continually derail threads with the same gripes or personal attacks on band members.

Definitely understand that, which is one of the reasons why I have been more active lately, even though it got me into a bit of trouble at work. For me,the one thing that I absolutely draw the line at is when band members, i.e. not Mike & Brian, but the band members...anyway...attacks on them to me should be off-limits, if it's a case where said member was being attacked just because they're in so-and-so's band.

So I can't call Mike, Gigantic Douche Coupe?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Seriously, though, I was referring to people like Scott T, John, Nelson, Darian, ect.

[The Shift]

Seriously, though, I was referring to people like Scott T, John, Nelson, Darian, ect.

Can we have a go at the likes of Adrian Baker and John Stamos though?

[Cam Mott]

At this point, does it matter? It's been almost a year ago. have had absolutely no issues since, him and I are good.

It matters as much as any question or challenge on this board I suppose.  It seems every other one around here must always be answered or met and in a timely fashion (to avoid taunts) so why not this one too?  Isn't the answer in the mod log?  Maybe one of the other moderators involved will remember.

I'm glad it is good between you and The Kid now.

[Cam Mott]

Yet, I’m a cowardly person posting here about what the woman is up to?  I don’t post on BBB, so here I am.  I welcome her response either here or on BW.com.  She certainly wasn’t the least bit shy on BW when she was promoting the M&B Tour there last Spring/Summer.  

Has she posted hateful stuff about you on another board is the issue?  

It's been a long time since I've signed up for BBB but I remember it as being easy.  

[Cam Mott]

The issue I have with moderation here is the posters who are allowed to continually derail threads with the same gripes or personal attacks on band members.

Definitely understand that, which is one of the reasons why I have been more active lately, even though it got me into a bit of trouble at work. For me,the one thing that I absolutely draw the line at is when band members, i.e. not Mike & Brian, but the band members...anyway...attacks on them to me should be off-limits, if it's a case where said member was being attacked just because they're in so-and-so's band.

So I can't call Mike, Gigantic Douche Coupe?

I only remember Totten and Cowsill from any of the bands participating on the board, who all have I missed/forgotten?

Edit: You forgot Brian, Cam. Oh yeah, duh.

[Alan Smith]

The issue I have with moderation here is the posters who are allowed to continually derail threads with the same gripes or personal attacks on band members.

Definitely understand that, which is one of the reasons why I have been more active lately, even though it got me into a bit of trouble at work. For me,the one thing that I absolutely draw the line at is when band members, i.e. not Mike & Brian, but the band members...anyway...attacks on them to me should be off-limits, if it's a case where said member was being attacked just because they're in so-and-so's band.

So I can't call Mike, Gigantic Douche Coupe?

I only remember Totten and Cowsill from any of the bands participating on the board, who all have I missed/forgotten?

Edit: You forgot Brian, Cam. Oh yeah, duh.

Adam Jardine has popped in once or twice.  or once.

[18thofMay]

What, how and why.
Straight forward stuff.

[rab2591]

Seriously, though, I was referring to people like Scott T, John, Nelson, Darian, ect.

Has this ever been a problem on this forum? Just curious...

[rab2591]

Full disclosure on my relationship with Val: I thought that she was the real fan that you all claim her to be.  I invited her to a VIP champagne tour of the Pompeii exhibit at the British Museum in April 2013.  I had her to lunch at my hotel after.  She brought a little sunshine smiley-face pin and a copy of the BBB newsletter.  Fair enough.  Now about her total devotion to promoting Brian - here we go:
 
1)  I got a follow-up newsletter 2013/14 where there was an article from an associate of hers, Andrew Hickey, claiming that he’d heard from an "unimpeachable source" that he/she had seen a 5-word email proving that Brian’s “people” had ended the C-50 tour.  Third-hand hearsay, no less.  There are two serious problems with this.  First, a 5-word, out of context email proves absolutely nothing.  Secondly, if such an email was shared, it would have been a violation of BRI confidentiality.
 
2) Then, I discovered that Ms. Johnson-Howe had been prattling on about her medical background and how Brian was “frail” and shouldn’t be “forced to tour.”  She’s provided 12 years of this nonsense.  Clearly, he’s not been too frail to tour, nor was he forced to do so.  He’s made it clear that he’s there because he wants to tour.  Yet the story lives on in the ridiculous world of BBB.
 
3)  Then, last year when Brian had to postpone his UK tour, Ms. Johnson-Howe posted a public letter encouraging fans to sue Brian for their travel expenses due to the postponement.  I unfriended her on FB at that point.  9-10 months later, she realized this and challenged me.  I explained why I no longer wanted any association with her.  She insisted that she had sources inside BW management and knew the real reasons the tour was postponed.  I asked her who her sources were and her response was “too numerous to mention” and “that’s all you get.”
 
Given that Brian’s management, as far as I know consists of two key people, I felt pretty assured that she didn’t have that inside source and it made me wonder who exactly these sources are that she appears to serve.  I then blocked the woman on FB.  I found her promotion of the idea that Brian’s doctors and his wife of 21 years would send him out on the road against his wishes and health needs beyond offensive.
 
So my response to all of you calling for my head:  Is this a sweet, innocent woman who only has Brian Wilson’s best interests at heart, or a woman with some behind-the-scenes reasons to so blatantly cater to the M&B BB’s, as well as to so consistently attack BW?   And she wields total control over a message board that bears the BB’s name.  She posts freely on BW I know for certain, and I would assume on SS if she cares, to.
 
Yet, I’m a cowardly person posting here about what the woman is up to?  I don’t post on BBB, so here I am.  I welcome her response either here or on BW.com.  She certainly wasn’t the least bit shy on BW when she was promoting the M&B Tour there last Spring/Summer. 

Debbie, this is some very interesting information

[HeyJude]

The issue I have with moderation here is the posters who are allowed to continually derail threads with the same gripes or personal attacks on band members.

Definitely understand that, which is one of the reasons why I have been more active lately, even though it got me into a bit of trouble at work. For me,the one thing that I absolutely draw the line at is when band members, i.e. not Mike & Brian, but the band members...anyway...attacks on them to me should be off-limits, if it's a case where said member was being attacked just because they're in so-and-so's band.

So I can't call Mike, Gigantic Douche Coupe?

I only remember Totten and Cowsill from any of the bands participating on the board, who all have I missed/forgotten?

Edit: You forgot Brian, Cam. Oh yeah, duh.

Adam Jardine has popped in once or twice.  or once.

I don't recall Adam Jardine posting here (could be wrong, though). Matt Jardine has posted on occasion, and when he has, he has offered some pretty interesting information (a few updates on recording with Brian, and in the past insights into the logistics of doing live shows, etc.). There was a particularly interesting post where he (somewhat) defended all of the various "falsetto" guys in the band over the years and explained some of the difficulties in singing those harmony parts in concert.

[HeyJude]

Seriously, though, I was referring to people like Scott T, John, Nelson, Darian, ect.

Has this ever been a problem on this forum? Just curious...

Other than some reprinting of the Bragg/Stamos/Cowsill stuff, I don't recall much of any personal attacks on touring backing band members (and as many might remember, a lot of the arguably "personal" attacks in that episode came from the actual band members themselves). There are sometimes some generalizations made about backing bands that could certainly be construed as arguably personal (e.g. "band of imposters", etc.).

I don't think there's any problem (nor do I think anyone here has suggested as such) with criticizing backing band members in the same ways we might criticize the actual Beach Boys. If you think a backing guy biffed a performance or something, I don't see any problem with pointing it out. Guys like Adrian Baker and Mike Kowalski have been raked through the coals for their singing/musicianship.

Ironically, the few interactions with these guys on this board has usually, in my opinion, resulted in people immediately turning all sunshine and roses. I recall a couple years back a few folks were dogging Cowsill's vocal on some song ("Wild Honey" maybe?), and then Cowsill himself showed up in the thread and everybody dropped the criticisms immediately. In his defense, Cowsill was pretty humble and self-deprecating about his performance, refreshingly so.

I recall another bit where some people were poking fun at that "Eternal Ballad" song Al did, and Matt Jardine jumped in and again very tactfully and realistically admitted it wasn't the best song ever, but explained the context of the song (they had been asked to write the song for an event, etc.)

But I don't recall much personal life stuff being brought up about the backing guys, mainly because so little is known and in general the guys in all the bands don't seem to do much in the way of interviews.

[filledeplage]

Full disclosure on my relationship with Val: I thought that she was the real fan that you all claim her to be.  I invited her to a VIP champagne tour of the Pompeii exhibit at the British Museum in April 2013.  I had her to lunch at my hotel after.  She brought a little sunshine smiley-face pin and a copy of the BBB newsletter.  Fair enough.  Now about her total devotion to promoting Brian - here we go:
 
1)  I got a follow-up newsletter 2013/14 where there was an article from an associate of hers, Andrew Hickey, claiming that he’d heard from an "unimpeachable source" that he/she had seen a 5-word email proving that Brian’s “people” had ended the C-50 tour.  Third-hand hearsay, no less.  There are two serious problems with this.  First, a 5-word, out of context email proves absolutely nothing.  Secondly, if such an email was shared, it would have been a violation of BRI confidentiality.
 
2) Then, I discovered that Ms. Johnson-Howe had been prattling on about her medical background and how Brian was “frail” and shouldn’t be “forced to tour.”  She’s provided 12 years of this nonsense.  Clearly, he’s not been too frail to tour, nor was he forced to do so.  He’s made it clear that he’s there because he wants to tour.  Yet the story lives on in the ridiculous world of BBB.
 
3)  Then, last year when Brian had to postpone his UK tour, Ms. Johnson-Howe posted a public letter encouraging fans to sue Brian for their travel expenses due to the postponement.  I unfriended her on FB at that point.  9-10 months later, she realized this and challenged me.  I explained why I no longer wanted any association with her.  She insisted that she had sources inside BW management and knew the real reasons the tour was postponed.  I asked her who her sources were and her response was “too numerous to mention” and “that’s all you get.”
 
Given that Brian’s management, as far as I know consists of two key people, I felt pretty assured that she didn’t have that inside source and it made me wonder who exactly these sources are that she appears to serve.  I then blocked the woman on FB.  I found her promotion of the idea that Brian’s doctors and his wife of 21 years would send him out on the road against his wishes and health needs beyond offensive.
 
So my response to all of you calling for my head:  Is this a sweet, innocent woman who only has Brian Wilson’s best interests at heart, or a woman with some behind-the-scenes reasons to so blatantly cater to the M&B BB’s, as well as to so consistently attack BW?   And she wields total control over a message board that bears the BB’s name.  She posts freely on BW I know for certain, and I would assume on SS if she cares, to.
 
Yet, I’m a cowardly person posting here about what the woman is up to?  I don’t post on BBB, so here I am.  I welcome her response either here or on BW.com.  She certainly wasn’t the least bit shy on BW when she was promoting the M&B Tour there last Spring/Summer. 

Debbie - at no time, do I recall that Val encouraged legal action with respect to Brian's tour in the UK.  I did read a lot of frustration with posters who had arranged vacations and time off, to coincide with the tour.  I went back to last June (26) to see her "A Plea to the Management/Promoters of the Brian Wilson Tour in the UK" and re-read what Val posted.  It is around page 19 of the BBB site. 

There was an initial complaint by some other fans, that some fee associated with the ticket was not to be refunded and then it was.  My impression was that the fans were venting at the news.  I can well remember my colossal disappointment when the Maharishi tour was cancelled the afternoon of that show.  I read frustration and disappointment in those posts which I can identify with after having experienced the same alongside the uncertainty of whether they would be back performing in the area any time soon.     

[Cam Mott]

Debbie - at no time, do I recall that Val encouraged legal action with respect to Brian's tour in the UK.  I did read a lot of frustration with posters who had arranged vacations and time off, to coincide with the tour.  I went back to last June (26) to see her "A Plea to the Management/Promoters of the Brian Wilson Tour in the UK" and re-read what Val posted.  It is around page 19 of the BBB site.  

There was an initial complaint by some other fans, that some fee associated with the ticket was not to be refunded and then it was.  My impression was that the fans were venting at the news.  I can well remember my colossal disappointment when the Maharishi tour was cancelled the afternoon of that show.  I read frustration and disappointment in those posts which I can identify with after having experienced the same alongside the uncertainty of whether they would be back performing in the area any time soon.  
  
[/quote]

This?

"A PLEA TO THE MANAGEMENT/PROMOTERS OF THE BRIAN WILSON TOUR IN THE UK
Posted on June 26, 2015 at 11:10:51 by Val

I do feel that I need to speak out on behalf of all the fans who have been bitterly disappointed by the latest news of the cancellation of Brian's UK Tour and feel that some acknowledgment of losses is due.

As many have stated below, when this tour was announced, we all thought that the venues were WAY too large for "Our Brian". Please note that we don't blame Brian personally and in fact we are fairly sure that this is nothing to do with any decision made by him.

I do feel though, that is it a pretty poor show when fans have to book time off at their jobs, way in advance and they also have to book flights and hotels (most of which is non refundable) and then to add insult to injury, we are advised that although we should all get our money back from the respective venues, the booking fees charged will not be refunded!

This is causing an awful lot of bad feeling among fans, along with feelings that Management should surely have known better than to do this in the first place and sadly, it shows us that the fans have not been considered in this venture, compounding that feeling by the "Announcement" on Brian's Pages (and really, so NOT from Brian Wilson himself!) which I believe many fans take to be an insult to their intelligence.

It really saddens me to write this, but shame on you BW Management - and I would love to see some form of recompense for the fans, who have lost such a lot through your poor judgement.

Surely, even a "residency" at The Royal Festival Hall in London for a few nights, with a show or two in Scotland and maybe Birmingham, would have been the best decision made and would have saved face?

A Jam Session/Charity Gig with our lovely Beach Boys Britain Musicians and Brian's Musicians would be the icing on the cake, to heal some very open wounds right now and I would be delighted to work with you on this.

Sent with Love and Respect.

Val Johnson-Howe
Beach Boys Britain"

[Robbie Mac]

The fans who bought tickets were only entitled to a refund of the ticket price. Nothing more. Suggestion of any other compensation (either through legal channels or not) is ridiculous, IMHO.

[SMiLE Brian]

That statement is pretty sharply worded in a way that the Litigious Lovester would approve of.

[Cam Mott]

That statement is pretty sharply worded in a way that the Litigious Lovester would approve of.

Which part was Val "encouraging fans to sue Brian"? 

Was that in another post?

[filledeplage]

Debbie - at no time, do I recall that Val encouraged legal action with respect to Brian's tour in the UK.  I did read a lot of frustration with posters who had arranged vacations and time off, to coincide with the tour.  I went back to last June (26) to see her "A Plea to the Management/Promoters of the Brian Wilson Tour in the UK" and re-read what Val posted.  It is around page 19 of the BBB site.  

There was an initial complaint by some other fans, that some fee associated with the ticket was not to be refunded and then it was.  My impression was that the fans were venting at the news.  I can well remember my colossal disappointment when the Maharishi tour was cancelled the afternoon of that show.  I read frustration and disappointment in those posts which I can identify with after having experienced the same alongside the uncertainty of whether they would be back performing in the area any time soon.  
  

This?

"A PLEA TO THE MANAGEMENT/PROMOTERS OF THE BRIAN WILSON TOUR IN THE UK
Posted on June 26, 2015 at 11:10:51 by Val

I do feel that I need to speak out on behalf of all the fans who have been bitterly disappointed by the latest news of the cancellation of Brian's UK Tour and feel that some acknowledgment of losses is due.

As many have stated below, when this tour was announced, we all thought that the venues were WAY too large for "Our Brian". Please note that we don't blame Brian personally and in fact we are fairly sure that this is nothing to do with any decision made by him.

I do feel though, that is it a pretty poor show when fans have to book time off at their jobs, way in advance and they also have to book flights and hotels (most of which is non refundable) and then to add insult to injury, we are advised that although we should all get our money back from the respective venues, the booking fees charged will not be refunded!

This is causing an awful lot of bad feeling among fans, along with feelings that Management should surely have known better than to do this in the first place and sadly, it shows us that the fans have not been considered in this venture, compounding that feeling by the "Announcement" on Brian's Pages (and really, so NOT from Brian Wilson himself!) which I believe many fans take to be an insult to their intelligence.

It really saddens me to write this, but shame on you BW Management - and I would love to see some form of recompense for the fans, who have lost such a lot through your poor judgement.

Surely, even a "residency" at The Royal Festival Hall in London for a few nights, with a show or two in Scotland and maybe Birmingham, would have been the best decision made and would have saved face?

A Jam Session/Charity Gig with our lovely Beach Boys Britain Musicians and Brian's Musicians would be the icing on the cake, to heal some very open wounds right now and I would be delighted to work with you on this.

Sent with Love and Respect.

Val Johnson-Howe
Beach Boys Britain"
[/quote]
Cam - yes, that is what I had read.  

[Robbie Mac]

That statement is pretty sharply worded in a way that the Litigious Lovester would approve of.

Which part was Val "encouraging fans to sue Brian"? 

Was that in another post?

"...feel that some acknowledgment of losses is due". "... recompense for the fans" despite having already agreed for full refunds of concert tickets.

[Fire Wind]

Maybe the recompense she means isn't financial, but playing some shows instead?


"Surely, even a "residency" at The Royal Festival Hall in London for a few nights, with a show or two in Scotland and maybe Birmingham, would have been the best decision made and would have saved face?


A Jam Session/Charity Gig with our lovely Beach Boys Britain Musicians and Brian's Musicians would be the icing on the cake"

[HeyJude]

I get that UK fans were pissed off, and Brian and management could have offered even a token gesture to fans over the disappointment and inconvenience.

But that “plea” isn’t realistic at all, nor particularly strategic. The plea implies dishonesty as to the stated reasons for the tour’s cancelation, pointing to excessively sized venues being booked (e.g. poor ticket sales resulting). But if that indeed was the case, the whole point of canceling the tour would be to nip those financial losses in the bud, for the promoter (more than anyone else probably) and everyone losing money. Sending Brian and his band over to the UK to jam with British Beach Boys fans, or whatever that pitch was, would just be a huge outlay of funds.

Separately, I can’t imagine writing *that* type of “plea”, insulting management and then expecting them to send over Brian’s band for a jolly jam session. Maybe Brian’s management deserved to be insulted. But I think when someone is pissed about something like that tour cancelation, you either have to just post whatever cathartic diatribe you need to and cut your losses, or suck it up and play nice with management if you’re trying to collect a fan base to work with management to mitigate the problem.

The ”plea” doesn’t ask or tell fans to sue Brian (and really, any lawsuits would probably be targeted at the promoters of the shows anyway, not Brian, and all lawsuits of that sort would likely fail anyway), but I’m not sure what exactly “recompense” and “acknowledgment of losses” would entail then. What, hire a CPA to collect receipts from fans and reimburse them? That’s a logistical and legal nightmare. What if someone booked a hotel, but chose to book the most expensive room or hotel? Do they also have to prove they’ve canceled the hotel room? Which costs would be reimbursed? Car rental? Airfare?

Any figurehead of a large fan base who wanted to see management make a situation right in any way (even the aforementioned token gesture; a free song download, coupon codes, etc.), and who had a good standing relationship with management, would have worked through back channels and/or privately instead of calling management out publicly and, I guess, trying to apply public pressure for management to do something. Why they posted that message on a board that gets maybe 5 or 10% (I’m guessing) of the traffic of the most popular BB forum, I don’t know.

[Robbie Mac]

I'll say it. It was blackmail and manipulation.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Seriously, though, I was referring to people like Scott T, John, Nelson, Darian, ect.

Has this ever been a problem on this forum? Just curious...

Occasionally I have seen digs in the Mike & Bruce threads, but not lately...not since I said something anyway.