Thread for arguments with or about moderation

[guitarfool2002]

I need to add something...posting under my own name is not an option, being that half the time I'm posting here from work.

Billy, I understand. If I posted from work I'd be in sh*t. For that reason, I don't risk posting from work, at all - don't want to risk losing my job. Also one of the reasons why I declined Craig's invite to be a mod (great honour though that was) way back before things got properly heated.

Thank you for posting this. That is one of the reasons why some members simply cannot post under a real name, and who choose not to. I'm glad to get some common sense logic into the dialogue about this issue and hopefully end it using common sense, because some have tried to make it an issue to harp on in the past.

[guitarfool2002]

Nobody asked for my opinion, but here it is anyway:

I have been a member of several message boards throughout the past 20 years or so. Most have had a minimum of four *active* moderators at all times--often spread over several time zones to help better cover 24 hours of the day. Since I began lurking (two years ago) and joined (almost one year ago), Billy and Craig have been the only two active moderators that I have been aware of. When one of the two moderators is seen by some (fairly or not) to be biased and abrasive, you have an absolute dumpster fire on your hands. Moderators have thankless, difficult jobs, it is outrageous that this board (and the moderators) have had to endure just two active moderators for this long. For being *just* a message board, why does it take so long to delegate new moderators? Why not give a couple board members a trial period or interim tag as moderator? After the trial period, it may be determined they aren't a good fit for the team or they may determine that is more work or a bigger hassle than it is worth.

One more thing, some of the threads veer quickly into off-topic conversation, as mentioned this has occurred both in the M&B tour and BW tour threads. Why not create new threads and move the off-topic discussion there. I understand why the Scott Bennett thread was moved to the Sandbox, but that seemed like the epitome of an on topic thread that had to be moved due to a lack of moderator action (deleting off-topic posts, moving off-topic posts to the Sandbox, issuing warnings for inappropriate posts, etc.).

Again, just my .02

Marty, I'd ask you this: If in whatever job you do or are doing there were people who you found out had organized an effort to come after you across multiple departments, and using lies about what you do or have done and distortions of the truth start telling your co-workers these lies in an effort to have you removed or replaced somehow from your job, would that be fair? If you have proof they did it, would that make it even more serious of an issue beyond hearing about it in general?

"Fair or not" doesn't apply here. When people lie about someone and start spreading those lies, it's not a case of weighing the lies as fair or not, it's a case of people telling lies.

Is the act of people here telling lies about other members acceptable on this board? If it is, I'd like to know how that factors into the idea of cleaning it up, clarifying the rules, and making it a better place.

[Emily]

I've been trying really hard to think of a more effective way to say this. But I can't.
I think a few separate issues are being convoluted. I think GF has been unfairly targeted by some posters. But I think there's a separate issue, a more complex and subtle one, about how a moderator interacts with posters. It's one that I'm having trouble sorting out my own thoughts on, because of course a moderator should be free to post his/her opinions, just like other posters, but there's also the point that a moderator needs to maintain an appearance of objectivity, so if a moderator has very strong views on a controversial subject, how is that to be balanced? It's a difficult question, but pertinent.
I also think that these two separate questions have tangled themselves. Probably GF is stinging from the incorrect and unfair accusations. So perhaps it's best to drop the topic until the dust has settled over those?
I don't know. I'm concerned that this is now a circle, in which GF's responses are validating the concerns which are validating GF's responses based on an outside variable.

* This originally posted with incomplete text because I did something screwy. Sorry.

 

[The Shift]

I need to add something...posting under my own name is not an option, being that half the time I'm posting here from work.

Billy, I understand. If I posted from work I'd be in sh*t. For that reason, I don't risk posting from work, at all - don't want to risk losing my job. Also one of the reasons why I declined Craig's invite to be a mod (great honour though that was) way back before things got properly heated.

Thank you for posting this. That is one of the reasons why some members simply cannot post under a real name, and who choose not to. I'm glad to get some common sense logic into the dialogue about this issue and hopefully end it using common sense, because some have tried to make it an issue to harp on in the past.

I still do think it's an issue Craig. The posting at work thing might be a reason, but I honestly think that, if posting at work puts your job a risk, and therefore your family's welfare, then simply wait until you get home and post from there. In my case, as bread winner for my partner, two kids and a CD addiction, I wouldn't dare risk it. Nevertheless I respect everyone's right to weigh up the risks, consider the consequences and come to a different conclusion.

[Douchepool]

If you're on a work computer, your company can also see what has been visited or sent through the internet, pseudonym or not.

[guitarfool2002]

I need to add something...posting under my own name is not an option, being that half the time I'm posting here from work.

Billy, I understand. If I posted from work I'd be in sh*t. For that reason, I don't risk posting from work, at all - don't want to risk losing my job. Also one of the reasons why I declined Craig's invite to be a mod (great honour though that was) way back before things got properly heated.

Thank you for posting this. That is one of the reasons why some members simply cannot post under a real name, and who choose not to. I'm glad to get some common sense logic into the dialogue about this issue and hopefully end it using common sense, because some have tried to make it an issue to harp on in the past.

I still do think it's an issue Craig. The posting at work thing might be a reason, but I honestly think that, if posting at work puts your job a risk, and therefore your family's welfare, then simply wait until you get home and post from there. In my case, as bread winner for my partner, two kids and a CD addiction, I wouldn't dare risk it. Nevertheless I respect everyone's right to weigh up the risks, consider the consequences and come to a different conclusion.

I understand, but not long ago there was almost a call for people to post under their real names, and in different situations and different professions that might not be acceptable for some members who choose not to broadcast their real name. It's their choice, ultimately.

And ultimately it comes down to a system that works perfectly fine and accommodates everyone unless some decide to abuse and break the rules, as we saw happen with Mike's Beard and several others. The rules aren't that strict nor are they that difficult to follow, and posting under a screen name works fine for those who don't come here or to other forums with the intent of ruining it for everyone else.

[Douchepool]

It's an awful lot of energy wasted. The internet is serious business.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I need to add something...posting under my own name is not an option, being that half the time I'm posting here from work.

Billy, I understand. If I posted from work I'd be in sh*t. For that reason, I don't risk posting from work, at all - don't want to risk losing my job. Also one of the reasons why I declined Craig's invite to be a mod (great honour though that was) way back before things got properly heated.

Thank you for posting this. That is one of the reasons why some members simply cannot post under a real name, and who choose not to. I'm glad to get some common sense logic into the dialogue about this issue and hopefully end it using common sense, because some have tried to make it an issue to harp on in the past.

I still do think it's an issue Craig. The posting at work thing might be a reason, but I honestly think that, if posting at work puts your job a risk, and therefore your family's welfare, then simply wait until you get home and post from there. In my case, as bread winner for my partner, two kids and a CD addiction, I wouldn't dare risk it. Nevertheless I respect everyone's right to weigh up the risks, consider the consequences and come to a different conclusion.

As a moderator, I have to make myself available.

[guitarfool2002]

I've been trying really hard to think of a more effective way to say this. But I can't.
I think a few separate issues are being convoluted. I think GF has been unfairly targeted by some posters. But I think there's a separate issue, a more complex and subtle one, about how a moderator interacts with posters. It's one that I'm having trouble sorting out my own thoughts on, because of course a moderator should be free to post his/her opinions, just like other posters, but there's also the point that a moderator needs to maintain an appearance of objectivity, so if a moderator has very strong views on a controversial subject, how is that to be balanced? It's a difficult question, but pertinent.
I also think that these two separate questions have tangled themselves. Probably GF is stinging from the incorrect and unfair accusations. So perhaps it's best to drop the topic until the dust has settled over those?
I don't know. I'm concerned that this is now a circle, in which GF's responses are validating the concerns which are validating GF's responses based on an outside variable.

* This originally posted with incomplete text because I did something screwy. Sorry.

 

The issue shifted more to objectivity only more recently after the lies about banning people and other supposed bad behavior from me as a mod failed in light of the truth being told. If the 5% of the threads I've posted in since November are causing these issues and I'm to blame, I'd be curious to see the opinions on the other 95% of discussions that I didn't get involved in, and all the posters who didn't even engage in the 5% with me.

Unfairly targeted only scratches the surface. Perhaps those who were involved could shed more light on what they were doing and why if you'd ask them. Try Facebook since one of them just got banned.

And try reversing a series of lies that have been repeated so often they became the truth.

[The Shift]

[Perhaps those who were involved could shed more light on what they were doing and why if you'd ask them. Try Facebook since one of them just got banned.

Someone else got banned? Or are you referring to Mike's Beard/China Pig (?)?

I think, btw, that fuel was thrown on the objectivity fire when someone (forget who) pointed out that you also moderate on Brian Wilson's board. When some here were accusing AGD of being on Mike's payroll (blatant nonsense … would Mike let go of money so easily?!?!), this revelation looked unfortunate in light of the fact that the board's two prime trolls, LOSD and his young familiar Snail Brian, appeared able to attack Mike with impunity.*

For the same of clarity, then - purely honesty and clarity, note -  can I ask whether you receive any form of remuneration for your work on that board? CDs? Free concert tickets? Upgrades (m&g, soundcheck) to concert tickets? Etc etc - or is it purely voluntary with no reward?


* I have noted, at long last, an apparent reduction in their misbehaviour. If this is due to a restraining order, then you, GF, and Billy are due a note of grateful thanks!

[Smilin Ed H]

Actually, I was the one who brought up the banning of AGD on Hoffman's board. Probably not the right thread to do it in, but there you go. And I've posted on there, on and off, for ages. No-one dragged me there. I don't know Mike's Beard. I don't agree with his vehemently anti (recent) Brian stance, though I do suspect it's driven by the persistent and unchecked anti-Mike comments. Mostly I stick with the visual arts threads over there and I seldom read BBB because of its stupid interface, so I have no idea what went down until I read the complaints here.

My two cents - I think what pissed off a lot of people here is the mind-numbing way threads are derailed by a handful of people pushing their anti-Mike/Mike agenda, after which, we get correspondents going way over the top to piss them off in turn. The regularity with which this happened - and happened beyond all common sense (i.e. no credit for Mike as a vocalist, band leader or lyricist during those years when the band made their name and when they were a genuine creative force. I mean, I get all the other stuff: the comments about Brian, his negativity towards Dennis, the 80s (ugh!); his endless self-justification and self-promotion which ironically matches some of the stuff I see on this board   But... he could sing and Brian wrote for that voice in the mix and he could write - even  for Dennis) has frequently been raised by posters. And, of course, it's still going on, mostly by the same people. Remember AGD's thread on 1964. One post completely skewed it until it finally got back on track - and it wasn't even by one of the usual suspects.

[The Shift]

GF, you seem like a nice guy overall, so I dont want this to sound like bullying, personal attacks or ganging up on you. But I think you do tend to take things too personally and fan the flames rather than put them out when a mod ought to do the latter. If you were more willing to take criticisms, listen, not come down hard against those you disagree with and stay out of the petty feuds I think you and other posters would be much happier. And no offense, but the way you just responded to Dr Beach Boy just now kinda proves that point. I know my opinion around here means jack squat but...I digress.

THIS.



That is pretty much exactly how I've been feeling!

I have no axe to grind with anyone. I don't associate with any other members. I like all Beach Boys equally for their outstanding contributions. I sort of understand why people try to defend Mike over Brian or vice versa but find it a pointless endeavour.

I completely agree with the above statement though, again through unbiased observations. And I do think that if Guitar Fool is a mod over on Brian's board, than it just adds fuel to the fire, whether or not it has any bearing on his duties here.

Maybe GF could take a sabbatical. Bring in someone new for a period of time. Chances are nothing will improve and then he can say, "hey I ain't the problem" lol

I won't be taking a leave or dropping out. No reason to. What happened so far in this thread was you saw one poster saying he wasn't Mike's Beard, then coming back and signing off as Mike's Beard after throwing a few personal insults.

He was one of the loudest voices and a presence on both Hoffman's board and Beach Boys Britain when the topic was me and my issues with moderating this board. Blame me, point the finger at me, it's my fault...up to his alias account saying "insiders" were staying away because I was a bad moderator.

Add it up - Is there any trust in the word of someone who can't even be honest with this community in general? Lies on top of lies, and it played out here for everyone to see.

So when you browse and read Hoffman's board or BBB and see comments from him, consider the source.

To further add up something else, in the past 6 months I've posted to roughly 20 out of 500 topics and discussions on the main board. That's around 5%.

If I'm the issue and the reason why the board went to hell, the numbers don't add up to that claim. If the board is apparently going to hell, look at the other 95% of posts and the posters like Mike's Beard who can't be honest about the most basic of all facts, his own identity.

Then tell me I'm the cause of all the problems. Me and my 5% of the topics I engaged in since November.

Then look at who was involved in the great plan (which continues to fail) to have me removed or voted out as a mod.

I'm quite aware of the "great plan" as I was approached elsewhere about what a problem mod you were (read:  Brian defender, instead of being a mod calling Brian's fans "jihadists" as did one of your predecessors).  Yet people love to mock anyone exposing slimy, behind-the-scenes efforts as "conspiracy theorists."  I guess it's easier than accepting the reality.  

Now, re:  those other boards:  Hoffman is so massive I don't think anyone screens the liars, multiple IP address posters, racists and misogynists there on a frequent basis, so those banned from here, and often from BW but not always, flourish there.  Hopefully, this time no one posting both here and there will take this as my personal attack on them - well, unless they fall into those categories.

BBB is a sad little joke.  Some of the multiple-identity posters there (and there are so few posters on that board that they're easy to spot) are so obviously people banned from here.  I won't name who Nicko (whatever set of numbers he chooses) really is, but he's all over the place there, I'm thinking with other id's as well - unless there are others as stupid as him, which is possible.  I know who the pathetic little whiner is, but I'll leave it at that.  

And the woman who runs the place, well...She's still running her sad little story that Brian is "frail" and "shouldn't be forced to tour," only now through others (or possibly she has more than one id there - it wouldn't be hard as the sole moderator). She's been chanting that mantra for 12 years now.  I guess Brian's not that frail, nor forced - d'ya think?  If she outlives him, she may get to say, "See! See! - many years later and not so believably.  I'm wondering what her posting history might be as well.  What name(s) might she have used here and on BW? I only managed to spot one on BW, but I haven't been on these boards that long.

GF - Sadly, people who care about the truth and insist on it, even when it's not polite or comfortable, are crucified on a regular basis.  But I guess you're already aware of that.    

Wow. The claws are out.

This is a really unfortunate point of view. Seems that when folks complain about this board at BBB, it's out of order and cowardly, but when folks complain about BBB here, it's okay?

The lady you're referring to is a gem. Years ago she realised that the UK fan base was disparate, consisting of pockets of fans or even individuals scattered across the country. Stomp was largely unattended and silent. She worked hard to establish BBB as the place for UK fans to gravitate, and brought together the UK fan community with events, pre-show meet-ups, a newsletter etc etc etc.

It all came together when Brian started to undertake more and more tours, and that sense of community contributed significantly to the incredible vibe at the RFH for the Pet Sounds gigs and the Smile gigs in 2002 and 2004.

She's had so much love for Brian and his music for years, and her infectious enthusiasm for it all has spread to many many other fans. Please don't belittle that, or attempt to undermine it.

If you do have some personal issue, at least take it to her board and do it to her face.

I'm really disappointed that this inter-board rivalry is allowed to go unchecked but hope it'll be nipped in the bud.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Who is part of this conspiracy to remove guitarfool as mod, besides AGD?

[Emily]

I've been trying really hard to think of a more effective way to say this. But I can't.
I think a few separate issues are being convoluted. I think GF has been unfairly targeted by some posters. But I think there's a separate issue, a more complex and subtle one, about how a moderator interacts with posters. It's one that I'm having trouble sorting out my own thoughts on, because of course a moderator should be free to post his/her opinions, just like other posters, but there's also the point that a moderator needs to maintain an appearance of objectivity, so if a moderator has very strong views on a controversial subject, how is that to be balanced? It's a difficult question, but pertinent.
I also think that these two separate questions have tangled themselves. Probably GF is stinging from the incorrect and unfair accusations. So perhaps it's best to drop the topic until the dust has settled over those?
I don't know. I'm concerned that this is now a circle, in which GF's responses are validating the concerns which are validating GF's responses based on an outside variable.

* This originally posted with incomplete text because I did something screwy. Sorry.

 

The issue shifted more to objectivity only more recently after the lies about banning people and other supposed bad behavior from me as a mod failed in light of the truth being told. If the 5% of the threads I've posted in since November are causing these issues and I'm to blame, I'd be curious to see the opinions on the other 95% of discussions that I didn't get involved in, and all the posters who didn't even engage in the 5% with me.

Unfairly targeted only scratches the surface. Perhaps those who were involved could shed more light on what they were doing and why if you'd ask them. Try Facebook since one of them just got banned.

And try reversing a series of lies that have been repeated so often they became the truth.

These are good points. It may well be that there was no issue before the lies about banning people. And I'm certainly aware of the problem that people eventually believe ridiculous assertions if they're repeated enough; but for people who aren't involved and not paying close attention to what's going on, it's uncomfortable to come across a mod expressing so much hostility to posters. I understand that the hostility might be earned, but not everyone understands that. I didn't understand it, say, yesterday. And it's never going to be that everyone understands it, because most people aren't really here to learn about the board politics. So the appearance to someone not involved in board politics is very negative.
I've also felt that sometimes when you address me, it's a little hostile. It might not be, but it comes close on the heels of a hostile post to someone else. If in your head, the tone is different, I can't hear that. I'm just saying that it can be intimidating and off-putting to by-standers, even if you're right because they don't know the story.

On the other hand, perhaps I'm going on about a solved problem. I expect that since it's now contained in this thread, it won't be a concern to casual readers.

[Emily]

[Perhaps those who were involved could shed more light on what they were doing and why if you'd ask them. Try Facebook since one of them just got banned.

Someone else got banned? Or are you referring to Mike's Beard/China Pig (?)?

I think, btw, that fuel was thrown on the objectivity fire when someone (forget who) pointed out that you also moderate on Brian Wilson's board. When some here were accusing AGD of being on Mike's payroll (blatant nonsense … would Mike let go of money so easily?!?!), this revelation looked unfortunate in light of the fact that the board's two prime trolls, LOSD and his young familiar Snail Brian, appeared able to attack Mike with impunity.*

For the same of clarity, then - purely honesty and clarity, note -  can I ask whether you receive any form of remuneration for your work on that board? CDs? Free concert tickets? Upgrades (m&g, soundcheck) to concert tickets? Etc etc - or is it purely voluntary with no reward?


* I have noted, at long last, an apparent reduction in their misbehaviour. If this is due to a restraining order, then you, GF, and Billy are due a note of grateful thanks!

I will say that while the Mike battles are extremely tiresome, I wouldn't want the mods to start censoring them.

[SMiLE Brian]

[Perhaps those who were involved could shed more light on what they were doing and why if you'd ask them. Try Facebook since one of them just got banned.

Someone else got banned? Or are you referring to Mike's Beard/China Pig (?)?

I think, btw, that fuel was thrown on the objectivity fire when someone (forget who) pointed out that you also moderate on Brian Wilson's board. When some here were accusing AGD of being on Mike's payroll (blatant nonsense … would Mike let go of money so easily?!?!), this revelation looked unfortunate in light of the fact that the board's two prime trolls, LOSD and his young familiar Snail Brian, appeared able to attack Mike with impunity.*

For the same of clarity, then - purely honesty and clarity, note -  can I ask whether you receive any form of remuneration for your work on that board? CDs? Free concert tickets? Upgrades (m&g, soundcheck) to concert tickets? Etc etc - or is it purely voluntary with no reward?


* I have noted, at long last, an apparent reduction in their misbehaviour. If this is due to a restraining order, then you, GF, and Billy are due a note of grateful thanks!

Hi!

[The Shift]

I've been trying really hard to think of a more effective way to say this. But I can't.
I think a few separate issues are being convoluted. I think GF has been unfairly targeted by some posters. But I think there's a separate issue, a more complex and subtle one, about how a moderator interacts with posters. It's one that I'm having trouble sorting out my own thoughts on, because of course a moderator should be free to post his/her opinions, just like other posters, but there's also the point that a moderator needs to maintain an appearance of objectivity, so if a moderator has very strong views on a controversial subject, how is that to be balanced? It's a difficult question, but pertinent.
I also think that these two separate questions have tangled themselves. Probably GF is stinging from the incorrect and unfair accusations. So perhaps it's best to drop the topic until the dust has settled over those?
I don't know. I'm concerned that this is now a circle, in which GF's responses are validating the concerns which are validating GF's responses based on an outside variable.

* This originally posted with incomplete text because I did something screwy. Sorry.

 

The issue shifted more to objectivity only more recently after the lies about banning people and other supposed bad behavior from me as a mod failed in light of the truth being told. If the 5% of the threads I've posted in since November are causing these issues and I'm to blame, I'd be curious to see the opinions on the other 95% of discussions that I didn't get involved in, and all the posters who didn't even engage in the 5% with me.

Unfairly targeted only scratches the surface. Perhaps those who were involved could shed more light on what they were doing and why if you'd ask them. Try Facebook since one of them just got banned.

And try reversing a series of lies that have been repeated so often they became the truth.

These are good points. It may well be that there was no issue before the lies about banning people. And I'm certainly aware of the problem that people eventually believe ridiculous assertions if they're repeated enough; but for people who aren't involved and not paying close attention to what's going on, it's uncomfortable to come across a mod expressing so much hostility to posters. I understand that the hostility might be earned, but not everyone understands that. I didn't understand it, say, yesterday. And it's never going to be that everyone understands it, because most people aren't really here to learn about the board politics. So the appearance to someone not involved in board politics is very negative.
I've also felt that sometimes when you address me, it's a little hostile. It might not be, but it comes close on the heels of a hostile post to someone else. If in your head, the tone is different, I can't hear that. I'm just saying that it can be intimidating and off-putting to by-standers, even if you're right because they don't know the story.

On the other hand, perhaps I'm going on about a solved problem. I expect that since it's now contained in this thread, it won't be a concern to casual readers.

I think this is very sensitively put and eloquently stated. I wish i could match that!

The overly defensive-cum-aggressive tone adopted can come across as a red warning light to those not in on whatever's going on behind the scenes. I'm torn on this: while on the one hand I believe in clarity and transparency, on the other hand I believe mods should be able to get on with their role without interference. When a mod's effectively posting along the lines of "It wasn't me, it wasn't me! I've got evidence that you can't see!", however… well, it's gonna get my hackles up.

I hope this is taken in the spirit of honesty in which it is offered.

[Jay]

I ha e a moderator related question. This has no derogatory or negative meaning behind it. Just a simple question . Since there are only two mods at the moment, how does a final vote or decision regarding a board issue be determined? If Billy and Craig were to each have opposing views on how to handle a situation, how is it resolved, since there is no third vote?

[guitarfool2002]

There are a lot of issues to address and answer. Please be patient and I'll try to address each one in time.  I may tackle the quick ones first.

[Juice Brohnston]

GF, you seem like a nice guy overall, so I dont want this to sound like bullying, personal attacks or ganging up on you. But I think you do tend to take things too personally and fan the flames rather than put them out when a mod ought to do the latter. If you were more willing to take criticisms, listen, not come down hard against those you disagree with and stay out of the petty feuds I think you and other posters would be much happier. And no offense, but the way you just responded to Dr Beach Boy just now kinda proves that point. I know my opinion around here means jack squat but...I digress.

THIS.



That is pretty much exactly how I've been feeling!

I have no axe to grind with anyone. I don't associate with any other members. I like all Beach Boys equally for their outstanding contributions. I sort of understand why people try to defend Mike over Brian or vice versa but find it a pointless endeavour.

I completely agree with the above statement though, again through unbiased observations. And I do think that if Guitar Fool is a mod over on Brian's board, than it just adds fuel to the fire, whether or not it has any bearing on his duties here.

Maybe GF could take a sabbatical. Bring in someone new for a period of time. Chances are nothing will improve and then he can say, "hey I ain't the problem" lol

I won't be taking a leave or dropping out. No reason to. What happened so far in this thread was you saw one poster saying he wasn't Mike's Beard, then coming back and signing off as Mike's Beard after throwing a few personal insults.

He was one of the loudest voices and a presence on both Hoffman's board and Beach Boys Britain when the topic was me and my issues with moderating this board. Blame me, point the finger at me, it's my fault...up to his alias account saying "insiders" were staying away because I was a bad moderator.

Add it up - Is there any trust in the word of someone who can't even be honest with this community in general? Lies on top of lies, and it played out here for everyone to see.

So when you browse and read Hoffman's board or BBB and see comments from him, consider the source.

To further add up something else, in the past 6 months I've posted to roughly 20 out of 500 topics and discussions on the main board. That's around 5%.

If I'm the issue and the reason why the board went to hell, the numbers don't add up to that claim. If the board is apparently going to hell, look at the other 95% of posts and the posters like Mike's Beard who can't be honest about the most basic of all facts, his own identity.

Then tell me I'm the cause of all the problems. Me and my 5% of the topics I engaged in since November.

Then look at who was involved in the great plan (which continues to fail) to have me removed or voted out as a mod.

I'm quite aware of the "great plan" as I was approached elsewhere about what a problem mod you were (read:  Brian defender, instead of being a mod calling Brian's fans "jihadists" as did one of your predecessors).  Yet people love to mock anyone exposing slimy, behind-the-scenes efforts as "conspiracy theorists."  I guess it's easier than accepting the reality.  

Now, re:  those other boards:  Hoffman is so massive I don't think anyone screens the liars, multiple IP address posters, racists and misogynists there on a frequent basis, so those banned from here, and often from BW but not always, flourish there.  Hopefully, this time no one posting both here and there will take this as my personal attack on them - well, unless they fall into those categories.

BBB is a sad little joke.  Some of the multiple-identity posters there (and there are so few posters on that board that they're easy to spot) are so obviously people banned from here.  I won't name who Nicko (whatever set of numbers he chooses) really is, but he's all over the place there, I'm thinking with other id's as well - unless there are others as stupid as him, which is possible.  I know who the pathetic little whiner is, but I'll leave it at that.  

And the woman who runs the place, well...She's still running her sad little story that Brian is "frail" and "shouldn't be forced to tour," only now through others (or possibly she has more than one id there - it wouldn't be hard as the sole moderator). She's been chanting that mantra for 12 years now.  I guess Brian's not that frail, nor forced - d'ya think?  If she outlives him, she may get to say, "See! See! - many years later and not so believably.  I'm wondering what her posting history might be as well.  What name(s) might she have used here and on BW? I only managed to spot one on BW, but I haven't been on these boards that long.

GF - Sadly, people who care about the truth and insist on it, even when it's not polite or comfortable, are crucified on a regular basis.  But I guess you're already aware of that.    

Wow. The claws are out.

This is a really unfortunate point of view. Seems that when folks complain about this board at BBB, it's out of order and cowardly, but when folks complain about BBB here, it's okay?

The lady you're referring to is a gem. Years ago she realised that the UK fan base was disparate, consisting of pockets of fans or even individuals scattered a ross the country. Stomp was largely unattended and silent. She worked hard to establish BBB as the place for UK fans to gravitate, and brought together the UK can community with events, pre-show meet-ups, a newsletter etc etc etc.

It all came together when Brian started to undertake more and more tours, and that sense of community contributed significantly to the incredible vibe at the RFH for the Pet Sounds gigs and the Smile gigs in 2002 and 2004.

She's had so much love for Brian and his music for years, and her infectious enthusiasm for it all has spread to many many other fans. Please don't belittle that, or attempt to undermine it.

If you do have some personal issue, at least take it to her board and do it to her face.

I'm really disappointed that this inter-board rivalry is allowed to go unchecked but hope it'll be nipped in the bud.

Good post. I think BBB is pretty balanced, albeit limited in traffic. Reading it for 16 years, and I sure don't see an anti-Brian agenda from Val. Recently people who I assume attended Brian shows have put in their thoughts, which again, seem non derogatory. Some people felt he was looking or sounding tired. Some say he sounded great.

[Juice Brohnston]

[Perhaps those who were involved could shed more light on what they were doing and why if you'd ask them. Try Facebook since one of them just got banned.

Someone else got banned? Or are you referring to Mike's Beard/China Pig (?)?

I think, btw, that fuel was thrown on the objectivity fire when someone (forget who) pointed out that you also moderate on Brian Wilson's board. When some here were accusing AGD of being on Mike's payroll (blatant nonsense … would Mike let go of money so easily?!?!), this revelation looked unfortunate in light of the fact that the board's two prime trolls, LOSD and his young familiar Snail Brian, appeared able to attack Mike with impunity.*

For the same of clarity, then - purely honesty and clarity, note -  can I ask whether you receive any form of remuneration for your work on that board? CDs? Free concert tickets? Upgrades (m&g, soundcheck) to concert tickets? Etc etc - or is it purely voluntary with no reward?


* I have noted, at long last, an apparent reduction in their misbehaviour. If this is due to a restraining order, then you, GF, and Billy are due a note of grateful thanks!

Another great post John, yes worth clarification, and it doesn't have to be a condemnation of GF in any way.

[guitarfool2002]

I ha e a moderator related question. This has no derogatory or negative meaning behind it. Just a simple question . Since there are only two mods at the moment, how does a final vote or decision regarding a board issue be determined? If Billy and Craig were to each have opposing views on how to handle a situation, how is it resolved, since there is no third vote?

Honest answer: I cannot think of a moderator decision we made where Billy and I didn't agree. When Klaas was more active as a mod, there was at least one issue where there was disagreement, which meant no action was taken. Another issue involved whether or not to take action, and we simply did not agree on the reasons why.

As far as tallying up votes, in light of Lowbacca leaving, there really hasn't been a decision come to a discussion where Billy and I did not agree, so it hasn't come up. If it does, Charles could ostensibly be the tiebreaker if necessary. But though we may disagree on some related points or whatever, I seriously cannot remember a situation where Billy or I had a serious objection with each other on whatever action would need to be taken.

So hopefully that explains it, and also puts to rest the complete lie that myself, Billy, or whoever else acted alone and banned people "at the flick of a switch" as one banned member once suggested I would do.

[Jay]

Thanks for the explanation.  I was just thinking that not having a "tiebreaker" vote could potentially cause problems on the board. But I'm glad you and Billy seem to work well together.

[The Shift]

GF, you seem like a nice guy overall, so I dont want this to sound like bullying, personal attacks or ganging up on you. But I think you do tend to take things too personally and fan the flames rather than put them out when a mod ought to do the latter. If you were more willing to take criticisms, listen, not come down hard against those you disagree with and stay out of the petty feuds I think you and other posters would be much happier. And no offense, but the way you just responded to Dr Beach Boy just now kinda proves that point. I know my opinion around here means jack squat but...I digress.

THIS.



That is pretty much exactly how I've been feeling!

I have no axe to grind with anyone. I don't associate with any other members. I like all Beach Boys equally for their outstanding contributions. I sort of understand why people try to defend Mike over Brian or vice versa but find it a pointless endeavour.

I completely agree with the above statement though, again through unbiased observations. And I do think that if Guitar Fool is a mod over on Brian's board, than it just adds fuel to the fire, whether or not it has any bearing on his duties here.

Maybe GF could take a sabbatical. Bring in someone new for a period of time. Chances are nothing will improve and then he can say, "hey I ain't the problem" lol

I won't be taking a leave or dropping out. No reason to. What happened so far in this thread was you saw one poster saying he wasn't Mike's Beard, then coming back and signing off as Mike's Beard after throwing a few personal insults.

He was one of the loudest voices and a presence on both Hoffman's board and Beach Boys Britain when the topic was me and my issues with moderating this board. Blame me, point the finger at me, it's my fault...up to his alias account saying "insiders" were staying away because I was a bad moderator.

Add it up - Is there any trust in the word of someone who can't even be honest with this community in general? Lies on top of lies, and it played out here for everyone to see.

So when you browse and read Hoffman's board or BBB and see comments from him, consider the source.

To further add up something else, in the past 6 months I've posted to roughly 20 out of 500 topics and discussions on the main board. That's around 5%.

If I'm the issue and the reason why the board went to hell, the numbers don't add up to that claim. If the board is apparently going to hell, look at the other 95% of posts and the posters like Mike's Beard who can't be honest about the most basic of all facts, his own identity.

Then tell me I'm the cause of all the problems. Me and my 5% of the topics I engaged in since November.

Then look at who was involved in the great plan (which continues to fail) to have me removed or voted out as a mod.

I'm quite aware of the "great plan" as I was approached elsewhere about what a problem mod you were (read:  Brian defender, instead of being a mod calling Brian's fans "jihadists" as did one of your predecessors).  Yet people love to mock anyone exposing slimy, behind-the-scenes efforts as "conspiracy theorists."  I guess it's easier than accepting the reality. 

Now, re:  those other boards:  Hoffman is so massive I don't think anyone screens the liars, multiple IP address posters, racists and misogynists there on a frequent basis, so those banned from here, and often from BW but not always, flourish there.  Hopefully, this time no one posting both here and there will take this as my personal attack on them - well, unless they fall into those categories.

BBB is a sad little joke.  Some of the multiple-identity posters there (and there are so few posters on that board that they're easy to spot) are so obviously people banned from here.  I won't name who Nicko (whatever set of numbers he chooses) really is, but he's all over the place there, I'm thinking with other id's as well - unless there are others as stupid as him, which is possible.  I know who the pathetic little whiner is, but I'll leave it at that. 

And the woman who runs the place, well...She's still running her sad little story that Brian is "frail" and "shouldn't be forced to tour," only now through others (or possibly she has more than one id there - it wouldn't be hard as the sole moderator). She's been chanting that mantra for 12 years now.  I guess Brian's not that frail, nor forced - d'ya think?  If she outlives him, she may get to say, "See! See! - many years later and not so believably.  I'm wondering what her posting history might be as well.  What name(s) might she have used here and on BW? I only managed to spot one on BW, but I haven't been on these boards that long.

GF - Sadly, people who care about the truth and insist on it, even when it's not polite or comfortable, are crucified on a regular basis.  But I guess you're already aware of that.     

Wow. The claws are out.

This is a really unfortunate point of view. Seems that when folks complain about this board at BBB, it's out of order and cowardly, but when folks complain about BBB here, it's okay?

The lady you're referring to is a gem. Years ago she realised that the UK fan base was disparate, consisting of pockets of fans or even individuals scattered a ross the country. Stomp was largely unattended and silent. She worked hard to establish BBB as the place for UK fans to gravitate, and brought together the UK can community with events, pre-show meet-ups, a newsletter etc etc etc.

It all came together when Brian started to undertake more and more tours, and that sense of community contributed significantly to the incredible vibe at the RFH for the Pet Sounds gigs and the Smile gigs in 2002 and 2004.

She's had so much love for Brian and his music for years, and her infectious enthusiasm for it all has spread to many many other fans. Please don't belittle that, or attempt to undermine it.

If you do have some personal issue, at least take it to her board and do it to her face.

I'm really disappointed that this inter-board rivalry is allowed to go unchecked but hope it'll be nipped in the bud.

Good post. I think BBB is pretty balanced, albeit limited in traffic. Reading it for 16 years, and I sure don't see an anti-Brian agenda from Val. Recently people who I assume attended Brian shows have put in their thoughts, which again, seem non derogatory. Some people felt he was looking or sounding tired. Some say he sounded great.

I might not have been clear… I was more concerned about Debbie's gutless attack on Val that any anti-Brian attack from BBB (which would, anyway, be a nonsense).

[mikeddonn]

GF, you seem like a nice guy overall, so I dont want this to sound like bullying, personal attacks or ganging up on you. But I think you do tend to take things too personally and fan the flames rather than put them out when a mod ought to do the latter. If you were more willing to take criticisms, listen, not come down hard against those you disagree with and stay out of the petty feuds I think you and other posters would be much happier. And no offense, but the way you just responded to Dr Beach Boy just now kinda proves that point. I know my opinion around here means jack squat but...I digress.

THIS.



That is pretty much exactly how I've been feeling!

I have no axe to grind with anyone. I don't associate with any other members. I like all Beach Boys equally for their outstanding contributions. I sort of understand why people try to defend Mike over Brian or vice versa but find it a pointless endeavour.

I completely agree with the above statement though, again through unbiased observations. And I do think that if Guitar Fool is a mod over on Brian's board, than it just adds fuel to the fire, whether or not it has any bearing on his duties here.

Maybe GF could take a sabbatical. Bring in someone new for a period of time. Chances are nothing will improve and then he can say, "hey I ain't the problem" lol

I won't be taking a leave or dropping out. No reason to. What happened so far in this thread was you saw one poster saying he wasn't Mike's Beard, then coming back and signing off as Mike's Beard after throwing a few personal insults.

He was one of the loudest voices and a presence on both Hoffman's board and Beach Boys Britain when the topic was me and my issues with moderating this board. Blame me, point the finger at me, it's my fault...up to his alias account saying "insiders" were staying away because I was a bad moderator.

Add it up - Is there any trust in the word of someone who can't even be honest with this community in general? Lies on top of lies, and it played out here for everyone to see.

So when you browse and read Hoffman's board or BBB and see comments from him, consider the source.

To further add up something else, in the past 6 months I've posted to roughly 20 out of 500 topics and discussions on the main board. That's around 5%.

If I'm the issue and the reason why the board went to hell, the numbers don't add up to that claim. If the board is apparently going to hell, look at the other 95% of posts and the posters like Mike's Beard who can't be honest about the most basic of all facts, his own identity.

Then tell me I'm the cause of all the problems. Me and my 5% of the topics I engaged in since November.

Then look at who was involved in the great plan (which continues to fail) to have me removed or voted out as a mod.

I'm quite aware of the "great plan" as I was approached elsewhere about what a problem mod you were (read:  Brian defender, instead of being a mod calling Brian's fans "jihadists" as did one of your predecessors).  Yet people love to mock anyone exposing slimy, behind-the-scenes efforts as "conspiracy theorists."  I guess it's easier than accepting the reality.  

Now, re:  those other boards:  Hoffman is so massive I don't think anyone screens the liars, multiple IP address posters, racists and misogynists there on a frequent basis, so those banned from here, and often from BW but not always, flourish there.  Hopefully, this time no one posting both here and there will take this as my personal attack on them - well, unless they fall into those categories.

BBB is a sad little joke.  Some of the multiple-identity posters there (and there are so few posters on that board that they're easy to spot) are so obviously people banned from here.  I won't name who Nicko (whatever set of numbers he chooses) really is, but he's all over the place there, I'm thinking with other id's as well - unless there are others as stupid as him, which is possible.  I know who the pathetic little whiner is, but I'll leave it at that.  

And the woman who runs the place, well...She's still running her sad little story that Brian is "frail" and "shouldn't be forced to tour," only now through others (or possibly she has more than one id there - it wouldn't be hard as the sole moderator). She's been chanting that mantra for 12 years now.  I guess Brian's not that frail, nor forced - d'ya think?  If she outlives him, she may get to say, "See! See! - many years later and not so believably.  I'm wondering what her posting history might be as well.  What name(s) might she have used here and on BW? I only managed to spot one on BW, but I haven't been on these boards that long.

GF - Sadly, people who care about the truth and insist on it, even when it's not polite or comfortable, are crucified on a regular basis.  But I guess you're already aware of that.    

Wow. The claws are out.

This is a really unfortunate point of view. Seems that when folks complain about this board at BBB, it's out of order and cowardly, but when folks complain about BBB here, it's okay?

The lady you're referring to is a gem. Years ago she realised that the UK fan base was disparate, consisting of pockets of fans or even individuals scattered across the country. Stomp was largely unattended and silent. She worked hard to establish BBB as the place for UK fans to gravitate, and brought together the UK can community with events, pre-show meet-ups, a newsletter etc etc etc.

It all came together when Brian started to undertake more and more tours, and that sense of community contributed significantly to the incredible vibe at the RFH for the Pet Sounds gigs and the Smile gigs in 2002 and 2004.

She's had so much love for Brian and his music for years, and her infectious enthusiasm for it all has spread to many many other fans. Please don't belittle that, or attempt to undermine it.

If you do have some personal issue, at least take it to her board and do it to her face.

I'm really disappointed that this inter-board rivalry is allowed to go unchecked but hope it'll be nipped in the bud.

I too can vouch for Val's efforts over the years John.  Maybe DKL and Val have met over the years and, as you say, there's been a falling out.