Thread for arguments with or about moderation

[guitarfool2002]

As has always been the case, there is the truth and there is everything else. How did (or does) this simple concept ever get flipped around to where the "everything else" was believed and defended more than the truth, and those dealing in "everything else" were believed over those telling the truth...

So much for the validity of the claims about this board and the moderation which were being scattered from board to board if "China Pig" was a source of those claims. In fact, I'd say it pretty much shatters the whole damned lot of those claims, but I'm obviously biased. I guess we'll need to stay tuned to see what develops on the other boards.

[guitarfool2002]

A direct appeal to ZenobiaUnchained:

That whole ugly and absurd episode that just happened with China Pig had no business infecting this board in the first place, and as a result of the blatant lies and deception which played out here over a few hours any if not all credibility coming from that source has been destroyed, unless lying to that extent is acceptable behavior among board members. Once the lies are exposed as lies, that's it - Say Goodnight, Gracie - it's a wrap.

Can we end this before it gets ugly? If I didn't give a damn I wouldn't bother, but consider coming clean and putting it to rest. I'd rather you be the one to do it. And if there is any misunderstanding about anything, I'll gladly 'fess up and take whatever I have coming. But it's not right to continue the deception.

[Smilin Ed H]

I can't wait for the book to come out.

[JK]

I can't wait for the book to come out.

Is Rocky writing it?

[SMiLE Brian]

Once last word before I bid you all farewell.
Craig, you are the most overbearing, blowhard, bellend I have ever come across.
Debbie, Brian dumped your saggy ass decades ago- move on.
Rab, NPP is still a big steaming pile of dogshit.
Billy, have fun in your sheltered accomodation, loser.

See you all under my next alias
MB.

Someone was gonna say it: "thank f*** he didn't mention me!"

Haha.
Well, that was dramatic.

Yeah GF had the right idea of who is an asshat!

[rab2591]

Copied this quote from the Brian touring thread as I didn't want to muck up that thread any more than it has been:

Posters can blame me but am I the only moderator and do I make decisions on my own to do or not do something, then act alone when doing it? Despite some who believe otherwise, the answer is a firm "no". Yet I get singled out. If there is a need for my own board or thread or whatever else (and there very well could be a sub forum or thread here in the sandbox or wherever if that's what posters want), at least have it be factually based on how this board is actually moderated and not based on false claims or assumptions.

Was it not enough when in the past 6 months myself, Billy, Klaas, and most recently Charles have in various threads all posted public statements and refuted all the charges about rogue moderators, moderators who bully others, and whatever other bogus statements were being made about the moderation of this board? I guess I'm the only one who is expected to do something even though it's a team effort and decisions are made by consensus.

Some people here see a correlation between the time when you got here, the bans that subsequently took place, and your stance on Brian/Mike. They connect some scattered dots and automatically assume that you are the cause of the bans.

I've made this point at least twice lately, and every time it has been seemingly ignored by those who continue to question your moderation here: C50 tour (and "breakup"), new Beach Boys album, MiC boxset, Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin, In The Key Of Disney, Buddy Holly Tribute, No Pier Pressure, The Smile Sessions boxset, new Pet Sounds boxset soon to be released, Pet Sounds tour, Good Vibrations Celebration tour, Jeff Beck tour/sessions, barrage of mature/humble comments by Mike about Brian, Christmas single by Mike, Mike Love auto-bio (and documentary) announced, Brian Wilson auto-bio announced, Major Motion picture Love And Mercy announced and released. Think about the weight of any given one of the above listed events/items. Then realize that most of these things have taken place in the last 4 years.

We are passionate as hell fans here. Everyone here loves this band, we love the music, we love the history of the band - which is why we spend a ridiculous amount of time posting and lurking on this forum. We all have deep-rooted beliefs about this band and the members of it (some of these beliefs are based on falsehoods, other based on personal experience, others based on books/articles we've read). We are passionate about those beliefs and fight with conviction to convince others what we believe. Take any one of the items listed in that paragraph above and you'll see that each have the potential to draw out some sort of heated discussion. Sometimes those discussions turn into arguments, and in those arguments some say or do some really stupid things...bannable things.

People started unjustly blaming Guitarfool for the influx of bans here (even though those bans had mostly to do with the events/items in the above list), Guitarfool defended himself, then people called him confrontational because he defended himself. I watched as Guitarfool was needled by a group of posters here in nearly every thread he posted in about 6 months back. Hell, his moderation was called into question on another "forum" by a slew of people.

Thanks to these bans this forum has lost A LOT of incredibly interesting, passionate, and (depending on who you talk to) good people over the last 4 years. Again, I have to say that I miss RunnersdialZero a whole hell of a lot. This forum isn't the same without him, and I think this place lost a lot of insight and comedy with his removal. I feel the same way about Mikie - he added a lot to this forum. That being said - these two people broke board rules...Enough for Billy to say that he hasn't seen anyone on the perma-ban list he wants to see back here again.

You guys are pissed at Guitarfool for supposedly "fanning the flames" when you're not really realizing how many times he's had to defend himself based on falsehoods and lies (and Adam, thanks for proving this point in this very thread).

[drbeachboy]

I expect you to be a moderator. If you don't want to do your job, then let someone else do it. Don't make excuses and through Billy under the bus. If Billy says you do your banning as a group, then you do your banning as a group. It still doesn't mean you didn't initiate any of the bannings. They all seemed to occur after you had run ins with each of them.

Who is the conspiracy theorist now?

This is beyond ridiculous, it's reached the point of bordering on sick.

This proves my point about you. No conspiracies, you are not good and you don't listen to the people you serve. You ought to run for public office.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Copied this quote from the Brian touring thread as I didn't want to muck up that thread any more than it has been:

Posters can blame me but am I the only moderator and do I make decisions on my own to do or not do something, then act alone when doing it? Despite some who believe otherwise, the answer is a firm "no". Yet I get singled out. If there is a need for my own board or thread or whatever else (and there very well could be a sub forum or thread here in the sandbox or wherever if that's what posters want), at least have it be factually based on how this board is actually moderated and not based on false claims or assumptions.

Was it not enough when in the past 6 months myself, Billy, Klaas, and most recently Charles have in various threads all posted public statements and refuted all the charges about rogue moderators, moderators who bully others, and whatever other bogus statements were being made about the moderation of this board? I guess I'm the only one who is expected to do something even though it's a team effort and decisions are made by consensus.

Some people here see a correlation between the time when you got here, the bans that subsequently took place, and your stance on Brian/Mike. They connect some scattered dots and automatically assume that you are the cause of the bans.

I've made this point at least twice lately, and every time it has been seemingly ignored by those who continue to question your moderation here: C50 tour (and "breakup"), new Beach Boys album, MiC boxset, Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin, In The Key Of Disney, Buddy Holly Tribute, No Pier Pressure, The Smile Sessions boxset, new Pet Sounds boxset soon to be released, Pet Sounds tour, Good Vibrations Celebration tour, Jeff Beck tour/sessions, barrage of mature/humble comments by Mike about Brian, Christmas single by Mike, Mike Love auto-bio (and documentary) announced, Brian Wilson auto-bio announced, Major Motion picture Love And Mercy announced and released. Think about the weight of any given one of the above listed events/items. Then realize that most of these things have taken place in the last 4 years.

We are passionate as hell fans here. Everyone here loves this band, we love the music, we love the history of the band - which is why we spend a ridiculous amount of time posting and lurking on this forum. We all have deep-rooted beliefs about this band and the members of it (some of these beliefs are based on falsehoods, other based on personal experience, others based on books/articles we've read). We are passionate about those beliefs and fight with conviction to convince others what we believe. Take any one of the items listed in that paragraph above and you'll see that each have the potential to draw out some sort of heated discussion. Sometimes those discussions turn into arguments, and in those arguments some say or do some really stupid things...bannable things.

People started unjustly blaming Guitarfool for the influx of bans here (even though those bans had mostly to do with the events/items in the above list), Guitarfool defended himself, then people called him confrontational because he defended himself. I watched as Guitarfool was needled by a group of posters here in nearly every thread he posted in about 6 months back. Hell, his moderation was called into question on another "forum" by a slew of people.

Thanks to these bans this forum has lost A LOT of incredibly interesting, passionate, and (depending on who you talk to) good people over the last 4 years. Again, I have to say that I miss RunnersdialZero a whole hell of a lot. This forum isn't the same without him, and I think this place lost a lot of insight and comedy with his removal. I feel the same way about Mikie - he added a lot to this forum. That being said - these two people broke board rules...Enough for Billy to say that he hasn't seen anyone on the perma-ban list he wants to see back here again.

You guys are pissed at Guitarfool for supposedly "fanning the flames" when you're not really realizing how many times he's had to defend himself based on falsehoods and lies (and Adam, thanks for proving this point in this very thread).

Amen, brother.

[Debbie KL]

Once last word before I bid you all farewell.
Craig, you are the most overbearing, blowhard, bellend I have ever come across.
Debbie, Brian dumped your saggy ass decades ago- move on.
Rab, NPP is still a big steaming pile of dogshit.
Billy, have fun in your sheltered accomodation, loser.

See you all under my next alias
MB.

And this is what mods have to deal with.

Aw, how sweet to be mentioned, even if the poster is remarkably illiterate.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Once last word before I bid you all farewell.
Craig, you are the most overbearing, blowhard, bellend I have ever come across.
Debbie, Brian dumped your saggy ass decades ago- move on.
Rab, NPP is still a big steaming pile of dogshit.
Billy, have fun in your sheltered accomodation, loser.

See you all under my next alias
MB.

Proving the statement, you can't put lipstick on a pig, especially a Chinese one.

And this is what mods have to deal with.

Aw, how sweet to be mentioned, even if the poster is remarkably illiterate.

[Juice Brohnston]

GF, you seem like a nice guy overall, so I dont want this to sound like bullying, personal attacks or ganging up on you. But I think you do tend to take things too personally and fan the flames rather than put them out when a mod ought to do the latter. If you were more willing to take criticisms, listen, not come down hard against those you disagree with and stay out of the petty feuds I think you and other posters would be much happier. And no offense, but the way you just responded to Dr Beach Boy just now kinda proves that point. I know my opinion around here means jack squat but...I digress.

THIS.



That is pretty much exactly how I've been feeling!

I have no axe to grind with anyone. I don't associate with any other members. I like all Beach Boys equally for their outstanding contributions. I sort of understand why people try to defend Mike over Brian or vice versa but find it a pointless endeavour.

I completely agree with the above statement though, again through unbiased observations. And I do think that if Guitar Fool is a mod over on Brian's board, than it just adds fuel to the fire, whether or not it has any bearing on his duties here.

Maybe GF could take a sabbatical. Bring in someone new for a period of time. Chances are nothing will improve and then he can say, "hey I ain't the problem" lol

[guitarfool2002]

GF, you seem like a nice guy overall, so I dont want this to sound like bullying, personal attacks or ganging up on you. But I think you do tend to take things too personally and fan the flames rather than put them out when a mod ought to do the latter. If you were more willing to take criticisms, listen, not come down hard against those you disagree with and stay out of the petty feuds I think you and other posters would be much happier. And no offense, but the way you just responded to Dr Beach Boy just now kinda proves that point. I know my opinion around here means jack squat but...I digress.

THIS.



That is pretty much exactly how I've been feeling!

I have no axe to grind with anyone. I don't associate with any other members. I like all Beach Boys equally for their outstanding contributions. I sort of understand why people try to defend Mike over Brian or vice versa but find it a pointless endeavour.

I completely agree with the above statement though, again through unbiased observations. And I do think that if Guitar Fool is a mod over on Brian's board, than it just adds fuel to the fire, whether or not it has any bearing on his duties here.

Maybe GF could take a sabbatical. Bring in someone new for a period of time. Chances are nothing will improve and then he can say, "hey I ain't the problem" lol

I won't be taking a leave or dropping out. No reason to. What happened so far in this thread was you saw one poster saying he wasn't Mike's Beard, then coming back and signing off as Mike's Beard after throwing a few personal insults.

He was one of the loudest voices and a presence on both Hoffman's board and Beach Boys Britain when the topic was me and my issues with moderating this board. Blame me, point the finger at me, it's my fault...up to his alias account saying "insiders" were staying away because I was a bad moderator.

Add it up - Is there any trust in the word of someone who can't even be honest with this community in general? Lies on top of lies, and it played out here for everyone to see.

So when you browse and read Hoffman's board or BBB and see comments from him, consider the source.

To further add up something else, in the past 6 months I've posted to roughly 20 out of 500 topics and discussions on the main board. That's around 5%.

If I'm the issue and the reason why the board went to hell, the numbers don't add up to that claim. If the board is apparently going to hell, look at the other 95% of posts and the posters like Mike's Beard who can't be honest about the most basic of all facts, his own identity.

Then tell me I'm the cause of all the problems. Me and my 5% of the topics I engaged in since November.

Then look at who was involved in the great plan (which continues to fail) to have me removed or voted out as a mod.

[guitarfool2002]

I can't wait for the book to come out.

Is Rocky writing it?

Skip the book, take it direct to television. The opening theme song could be "Liar Liar" by The Castaways. Closing credits theme, "Lies" by The Knickerbockers. 

[drbeachboy]

I'll tell you something Craig, I haven't asked anyone in here to remove you, except yourself. You seem to be blinded by the very bright lights that surround that mirror you look into every day. In your posts, you have not once admitted to one fault laid before you, even down to the novella's that you continue to post in here. And maybe you really don't see it, but just read what has been posted lately. More people see it than just me, yet you won't even take the advice when it is warmly handed to you by the people who have tried to stay neutral. Your style of moderating may work nicely at BrianWilson.com, but not here. I would hope that you think enough of the members in here to take their recommendations and act on them.

[KDS]

I'll tell you something Craig, I haven't asked anyone in here to remove you, except yourself. You seem to be blinded by the very bright lights that surround that mirror you look into every day. In your posts, you have not once admitted to one fault laid before you, even down to the novella's that you continue to post in here. And maybe you really don't see it, but just read what has been posted lately. More people see it than just me, yet you won't even take the advice when it is warmly handed to you by the people who have tried to stay neutral. Your style of moderating may work nicely at BrianWilson.com, but not here. I would hope that you think enough of the members in here to take their recommendations and act on them.

And please explain why a slight criticism of a Brian Wilson track warrants a giant novella length response.  The man's been making music for 55+ years.  Not everything is going to be a winner. 

I believe that posters should be able to post honest opinions - good, bad, or indifferent -  about the music without mods jumping in to say an opinion is uneducated or agenda-based. 

[The Shift]

GF, you seem like a nice guy overall, so I dont want this to sound like bullying, personal attacks or ganging up on you. But I think you do tend to take things too personally and fan the flames rather than put them out when a mod ought to do the latter. If you were more willing to take criticisms, listen, not come down hard against those you disagree with and stay out of the petty feuds I think you and other posters would be much happier. And no offense, but the way you just responded to Dr Beach Boy just now kinda proves that point. I know my opinion around here means jack squat but...I digress.

THIS.



That is pretty much exactly how I've been feeling!

I have no axe to grind with anyone. I don't associate with any other members. I like all Beach Boys equally for their outstanding contributions. I sort of understand why people try to defend Mike over Brian or vice versa but find it a pointless endeavour.

I completely agree with the above statement though, again through unbiased observations. And I do think that if Guitar Fool is a mod over on Brian's board, than it just adds fuel to the fire, whether or not it has any bearing on his duties here.

Maybe GF could take a sabbatical. Bring in someone new for a period of time. Chances are nothing will improve and then he can say, "hey I ain't the problem" lol

I won't be taking a leave or dropping out. No reason to. What happened so far in this thread was you saw one poster saying he wasn't Mike's Beard, then coming back and signing off as Mike's Beard after throwing a few personal insults.

He was one of the loudest voices and a presence on both Hoffman's board and Beach Boys Britain when the topic was me and my issues with moderating this board. Blame me, point the finger at me, it's my fault...up to his alias account saying "insiders" were staying away because I was a bad moderator.

Add it up - Is there any trust in the word of someone who can't even be honest with this community in general? Lies on top of lies, and it played out here for everyone to see.

So when you browse and read Hoffman's board or BBB and see comments from him, consider the source.

To further add up something else, in the past 6 months I've posted to roughly 20 out of 500 topics and discussions on the main board. That's around 5%.

If I'm the issue and the reason why the board went to hell, the numbers don't add up to that claim. If the board is apparently going to hell, look at the other 95% of posts and the posters like Mike's Beard who can't be honest about the most basic of all facts, his own identity.

Then tell me I'm the cause of all the problems. Me and my 5% of the topics I engaged in since November.

Then look at who was involved in the great plan (which continues to fail) to have me removed or voted out as a mod.

With respect, Mike's Beard doesn't post on BBB to the best of my knowledge.

As for being honest about identities, it has been suggested in previous threads that people maybe ought to be obliged to post under their own real names, then they might be less inclined to post reams of tripe while hiding behind some pseudonym.

[SMiLE Brian]

Kinda interesting the usual suspects switched from hammering Billy to Craig.....

[The Shift]

Kinda interesting the usual suspects switched from hammering Billy to Craig.....

It's probably because there's a cross-board multi-platform conspiracy of conspirators to conspire.

[Marty Castillo]

Nobody asked for my opinion, but here it is anyway:

I have been a member of several message boards throughout the past 20 years or so. Most have had a minimum of four *active* moderators at all times--often spread over several time zones to help better cover 24 hours of the day. Since I began lurking (two years ago) and joined (almost one year ago), Billy and Craig have been the only two active moderators that I have been aware of. When one of the two moderators is seen by some (fairly or not) to be biased and abrasive, you have an absolute dumpster fire on your hands. Moderators have thankless, difficult jobs, it is outrageous that this board (and the moderators) have had to endure just two active moderators for this long. For being *just* a message board, why does it take so long to delegate new moderators? Why not give a couple board members a trial period or interim tag as moderator? After the trial period, it may be determined they aren't a good fit for the team or they may determine that is more work or a bigger hassle than it is worth.

One more thing, some of the threads veer quickly into off-topic conversation, as mentioned this has occurred both in the M&B tour and BW tour threads. Why not create new threads and move the off-topic discussion there. I understand why the Scott Bennett thread was moved to the Sandbox, but that seemed like the epitome of an on topic thread that had to be moved due to a lack of moderator action (deleting off-topic posts, moving off-topic posts to the Sandbox, issuing warnings for inappropriate posts, etc.).

Again, just my .02

[Debbie KL]

GF, you seem like a nice guy overall, so I dont want this to sound like bullying, personal attacks or ganging up on you. But I think you do tend to take things too personally and fan the flames rather than put them out when a mod ought to do the latter. If you were more willing to take criticisms, listen, not come down hard against those you disagree with and stay out of the petty feuds I think you and other posters would be much happier. And no offense, but the way you just responded to Dr Beach Boy just now kinda proves that point. I know my opinion around here means jack squat but...I digress.

THIS.



That is pretty much exactly how I've been feeling!

I have no axe to grind with anyone. I don't associate with any other members. I like all Beach Boys equally for their outstanding contributions. I sort of understand why people try to defend Mike over Brian or vice versa but find it a pointless endeavour.

I completely agree with the above statement though, again through unbiased observations. And I do think that if Guitar Fool is a mod over on Brian's board, than it just adds fuel to the fire, whether or not it has any bearing on his duties here.

Maybe GF could take a sabbatical. Bring in someone new for a period of time. Chances are nothing will improve and then he can say, "hey I ain't the problem" lol

I won't be taking a leave or dropping out. No reason to. What happened so far in this thread was you saw one poster saying he wasn't Mike's Beard, then coming back and signing off as Mike's Beard after throwing a few personal insults.

He was one of the loudest voices and a presence on both Hoffman's board and Beach Boys Britain when the topic was me and my issues with moderating this board. Blame me, point the finger at me, it's my fault...up to his alias account saying "insiders" were staying away because I was a bad moderator.

Add it up - Is there any trust in the word of someone who can't even be honest with this community in general? Lies on top of lies, and it played out here for everyone to see.

So when you browse and read Hoffman's board or BBB and see comments from him, consider the source.

To further add up something else, in the past 6 months I've posted to roughly 20 out of 500 topics and discussions on the main board. That's around 5%.

If I'm the issue and the reason why the board went to hell, the numbers don't add up to that claim. If the board is apparently going to hell, look at the other 95% of posts and the posters like Mike's Beard who can't be honest about the most basic of all facts, his own identity.

Then tell me I'm the cause of all the problems. Me and my 5% of the topics I engaged in since November.

Then look at who was involved in the great plan (which continues to fail) to have me removed or voted out as a mod.

I'm quite aware of the "great plan" as I was approached elsewhere about what a problem mod you were (read:  Brian defender, instead of being a mod calling Brian's fans "jihadists" as did one of your predecessors).  Yet people love to mock anyone exposing slimy, behind-the-scenes efforts as "conspiracy theorists."  I guess it's easier than accepting the reality.  

Now, re:  those other boards:  Hoffman is so massive I don't think anyone screens the liars, multiple IP address posters, racists and misogynists there on a frequent basis, so those banned from here, and often from BW but not always, flourish there.  Hopefully, this time no one posting both here and there will take this as my personal attack on them - well, unless they fall into those categories.

BBB is a sad little joke.  Some of the multiple-identity posters there (and there are so few posters on that board that they're easy to spot) are so obviously people banned from here.  I won't name who Nicko (whatever set of numbers he chooses) really is, but he's all over the place there, I'm thinking with other id's as well - unless there are others as stupid as him, which is possible.  I know who the pathetic little whiner is, but I'll leave it at that.  

And the woman who runs the place, well...She's still running her sad little story that Brian is "frail" and "shouldn't be forced to tour," only now through others (or possibly she has more than one id there - it wouldn't be hard as the sole moderator). She's been chanting that mantra for 12 years now.  I guess Brian's not that frail, nor forced - d'ya think?  If she outlives him, she may get to say, "See! See! - many years later and not so believably.  I'm wondering what her posting history might be as well.  What name(s) might she have used here and on BW? I only managed to spot one on BW, but I haven't been on these boards that long.

GF - Sadly, people who care about the truth and insist on it, even when it's not polite or comfortable, are crucified on a regular basis.  But I guess you're already aware of that.    

[Debbie KL]

GF, you seem like a nice guy overall, so I dont want this to sound like bullying, personal attacks or ganging up on you. But I think you do tend to take things too personally and fan the flames rather than put them out when a mod ought to do the latter. If you were more willing to take criticisms, listen, not come down hard against those you disagree with and stay out of the petty feuds I think you and other posters would be much happier. And no offense, but the way you just responded to Dr Beach Boy just now kinda proves that point. I know my opinion around here means jack squat but...I digress.

THIS.



That is pretty much exactly how I've been feeling!

I have no axe to grind with anyone. I don't associate with any other members. I like all Beach Boys equally for their outstanding contributions. I sort of understand why people try to defend Mike over Brian or vice versa but find it a pointless endeavour.

I completely agree with the above statement though, again through unbiased observations. And I do think that if Guitar Fool is a mod over on Brian's board, than it just adds fuel to the fire, whether or not it has any bearing on his duties here.

Maybe GF could take a sabbatical. Bring in someone new for a period of time. Chances are nothing will improve and then he can say, "hey I ain't the problem" lol

I won't be taking a leave or dropping out. No reason to. What happened so far in this thread was you saw one poster saying he wasn't Mike's Beard, then coming back and signing off as Mike's Beard after throwing a few personal insults.

He was one of the loudest voices and a presence on both Hoffman's board and Beach Boys Britain when the topic was me and my issues with moderating this board. Blame me, point the finger at me, it's my fault...up to his alias account saying "insiders" were staying away because I was a bad moderator.

Add it up - Is there any trust in the word of someone who can't even be honest with this community in general? Lies on top of lies, and it played out here for everyone to see.

So when you browse and read Hoffman's board or BBB and see comments from him, consider the source.

To further add up something else, in the past 6 months I've posted to roughly 20 out of 500 topics and discussions on the main board. That's around 5%.

If I'm the issue and the reason why the board went to hell, the numbers don't add up to that claim. If the board is apparently going to hell, look at the other 95% of posts and the posters like Mike's Beard who can't be honest about the most basic of all facts, his own identity.

Then tell me I'm the cause of all the problems. Me and my 5% of the topics I engaged in since November.

Then look at who was involved in the great plan (which continues to fail) to have me removed or voted out as a mod.

With respect, Mike's Beard doesn't post on BBB to the best of my knowledge.

As for being honest about identities, it has been suggested in previous threads that people maybe ought to be obliged to post under their own real names, then they might be less inclined to post reams of tripe while hiding behind some pseudonym.

Posting under one's real name has its hazards.  So far, I've survived, along with my "dumped, saggy ass."  Of course, sometimes, it just makes a person chuckle (like that idiotic statement).  I think everyone knows who Craig is, if that's what you're attempting to imply here.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I need to add something...posting under my own name is not an option, being that half the time I'm posting here from work.

[Emily]

I think that if someone were to mine my posts they could identify me, but I'm not entirely comfortable posting under my full name on a public message board. It is true that some seem to use it as permission to offend. And I'm not referring to GF, just the general tone of the internet vs. reality.

[The Shift]

I need to add something...posting under my own name is not an option, being that half the time I'm posting here from work.

Billy, I understand. If I posted from work I'd be in sh*t. For that reason, I don't risk posting from work, at all - don't want to risk losing my job. Also one of the reasons why I declined Craig's invite to be a mod (great honour though that was) way back before things got properly heated.

[guitarfool2002]

I'll tell you something Craig, I haven't asked anyone in here to remove you, except yourself. You seem to be blinded by the very bright lights that surround that mirror you look into every day. In your posts, you have not once admitted to one fault laid before you, even down to the novella's that you continue to post in here. And maybe you really don't see it, but just read what has been posted lately. More people see it than just me, yet you won't even take the advice when it is warmly handed to you by the people who have tried to stay neutral. Your style of moderating may work nicely at BrianWilson.com, but not here. I would hope that you think enough of the members in here to take their recommendations and act on them.

I will not take criticism nor suggestions from someone who is doing the online equivalent of looking into my eyes and lying to me. The person who posted knows exactly what I'm talking about, and has been given several chances to set the record straight but is instead sticking to the lie. When someone lies that blatantly to me, my respect for them is gone.

It's very telling how you think it's a bigger priority to implore me to think enough of the members here while saying nothing about the board member Mike's Beard/China Pig who not only lied to everyone about who he was, but did so to evade the ban, broke the board rules, and on his way out insulted two moderators and several members with his farewell message.

I'm all for consistency too. Where is yours?

And you seriously need to consider putting and end to whatever this obsession has been with me or the way I moderate. It's impossible to get you to accept or believe anything despite repeatedly telling you the actual truth, and now you move the goal posts to how I interact with members and moderating on BW?

Did you ever ONCE step up and admit you got it wrong, or were mistaken in something you said in any of this, after both Billy and I told the straight-up truth about any number of issues you raised?

Never. Not once. Zero.

If you want to take the word of liars like the guy who was just banned and other members who couldn't follow the basic board rules and showed disrespect to the community by lying and trying to evade and break the rules, that says it all. Hearing multiple moderators explain all of this stuff to you seems to have no effect. It's whatever I did or whatever you like people to think i did that is the worst "offense" and is responsible for destroying the board.

How about those who lie repeatedly as demonstrated for all to see in this thread?

And I get chastised about showing respect? Please.