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♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #100 on: May 23, 2016, 04:25:54 PM »

But I'm glad you and Billy seem to work well together.

Me too! LOL
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« Reply #101 on: May 23, 2016, 04:34:03 PM »

[Perhaps those who were involved could shed more light on what they were doing and why if you'd ask them. Try Facebook since one of them just got banned.

Someone else got banned? Or are you referring to Mike's Beard/China Pig (?)?

I think, btw, that fuel was thrown on the objectivity fire when someone (forget who) pointed out that you also moderate on Brian Wilson's board. When some here were accusing AGD of being on Mike's payroll (blatant nonsense … would Mike let go of money so easily?!?!), this revelation looked unfortunate in light of the fact that the board's two prime trolls, LOSD and his young familiar Snail Brian, appeared able to attack Mike with impunity.*

For the same of clarity, then - purely honesty and clarity, note -  can I ask whether you receive any form of remuneration for your work on that board? CDs? Free concert tickets? Upgrades (m&g, soundcheck) to concert tickets? Etc etc - or is it purely voluntary with no reward?


* I have noted, at long last, an apparent reduction in their misbehaviour. If this is due to a restraining order, then you, GF, and Billy are due a note of grateful thanks!

I will say that while the Mike battles are extremely tiresome, I wouldn't want the mods to start censoring them.

*This* is one of the long-running debates in general, removing any specific individuals or situations. I have written very, very often about this but unfortunately most of my replies have been in private messages to board members who had contacted me.

This is an "open forum" which has never been a tightly moderated forum. I have seen and read forums that are very tightly moderated, and the nit-picking that goes on can stifle any sense of conversing with the other board members. It's like the Seinfeld episode with the guy selling soup...you're there to get soup, if you say the wrong thing, "No Soup For You!".

Some people might want that, round the clock monitoring of posts and discussions, if someone steps away from the topic it's "no soup for you".

What drew me to this forum in the first place, and it was coming off the Smile Shop before that imploded, was how the conversations were freewheeling as much as they were on topic. There was no traffic cop directing you here or there. If we were talking about a Smile track and someone mentioned seeing something on TV the night before, it would roll along. Eventually it gets back on topic.

That's an open forum.

As I also said recently, many times I think to myself why are adults who are coming together to talk about a shared interest in need of constant, round the clock moderation and moderating? As much as an open forum exists, so can a sense of self policing. I answered certain members' PM messages complaining about this or that, demanding action be taken on that or this...and my reply was usually the same. It's an open forum. If someone offers an opinion that you disagree with, you can challenge it. If someone posts something you want to offer an opinion on, post that opinion.

This idea that people post something and are shocked to learn others disagree and post as such just doesn't make sense. If it stays within the lines of not getting personal against another poster, it's par for the course. I don't understand sometimes how or why the notion that a moderator should step in and act on demand because someone doesn't like what was said should be more ingrained into an open forum then the simple act of discussing and debating.

I also do not understand sometimes the calls for strict moderation over every thread when there are not many rules to begin with, and they're really not that difficult to understand nor are they hard to follow as a general rule. If more posters would come here for the reasons a majority come here, you wouldn't need the board cops to be monitoring 24/7. "It's all about the music" is the phrase often repeated, so where are the discussions about the music? So many get posted then disappear.

I can't say any more lest I piss off KDS and/or Dr Beach Boy who said I write long novelas. Fine - don't read them. Your choice.

But I would suggest there are just as many posters who enjoy this being an open forum as there are posters asking for constant monitoring and stepping in by moderators.

It is also very revealing how many people who want the constant monitoring will complain when action is taken which they disagree with by saying it's too strict, too many rules, it's unfair, etc....yet demand action be taken if it's something they want to see done to someone they either don't like or would like to see removed.

The moderators have to find that balance, that middle ground when making any of these decisions. It's not easy. But the job gets done.

And if improving the community is a priority, perhaps more efforts could be made by those who come here like Mike's Beard to play everyone for fools and flaunt the rules to instead take that act somewhere else.

And consider too - The next "target" of either the mob carrying torches or calling people before kangaroo courts of opinion could be anyone here who runs afoul of whatever the current most vocal mob is advocating that day. I've seen that happen on several boards that got ripped apart, and I'll be damned if it will happen here.





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« Reply #102 on: May 23, 2016, 04:42:42 PM »

[Perhaps those who were involved could shed more light on what they were doing and why if you'd ask them. Try Facebook since one of them just got banned.

Someone else got banned? Or are you referring to Mike's Beard/China Pig (?)?

I think, btw, that fuel was thrown on the objectivity fire when someone (forget who) pointed out that you also moderate on Brian Wilson's board. When some here were accusing AGD of being on Mike's payroll (blatant nonsense … would Mike let go of money so easily?!?!), this revelation looked unfortunate in light of the fact that the board's two prime trolls, LOSD and his young familiar Snail Brian, appeared able to attack Mike with impunity.*

For the same of clarity, then - purely honesty and clarity, note -  can I ask whether you receive any form of remuneration for your work on that board? CDs? Free concert tickets? Upgrades (m&g, soundcheck) to concert tickets? Etc etc - or is it purely voluntary with no reward?


* I have noted, at long last, an apparent reduction in their misbehaviour. If this is due to a restraining order, then you, GF, and Billy are due a note of grateful thanks!

Another great post John, yes worth clarification, and it doesn't have to be a condemnation of GF in any way.

I am not on any payrolls. And yes, Mike's Beard/China Pig.
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« Reply #103 on: May 23, 2016, 05:12:41 PM »

Actually, I was the one who brought up the banning of AGD on Hoffman's board. Probably not the right thread to do it in, but there you go. And I've posted on there, on and off, for ages. No-one dragged me there. I don't know Mike's Beard. I don't agree with his vehemently anti (recent) Brian stance, though I do suspect it's driven by the persistent and unchecked anti-Mike comments. Mostly I stick with the visual arts threads over there and I seldom read BBB because of its stupid interface, so I have no idea what went down until I read the complaints here.

My two cents - I think what pissed off a lot of people here is the mind-numbing way threads are derailed by a handful of people pushing their anti-Mike/Mike agenda, after which, we get correspondents going way over the top to piss them off in turn. The regularity with which this happened - and happened beyond all common sense (i.e. no credit for Mike as a vocalist, band leader or lyricist during those years when the band made their name and when they were a genuine creative force. I mean, I get all the other stuff: the comments about Brian, his negativity towards Dennis, the 80s (ugh!); his endless self-justification and self-promotion which ironically matches some of the stuff I see on this board  Grin But... he could sing and Brian wrote for that voice in the mix and he could write - even  for Dennis) has frequently been raised by posters. And, of course, it's still going on, mostly by the same people. Remember AGD's thread on 1964. One post completely skewed it until it finally got back on track - and it wasn't even by one of the usual suspects.

One of my unpopular opinions - nearly everyone I've suggested it to has rejected it out of hand - would be to eliminate the PM function of this board. I know why it would be an unpopular decision that would garner little if any support, but honestly a lot of the major problems going back to other forums I've seen have come from members who think doing things via private messages is a way to hide behavior and get away with it. It was disgusting to hear about some of the absolute crap that was going on. There would be the public face of things, then underneath something entirely different. Nasty stuff. The problem is - in my opinion - these messages are hidden by design. If I were to do or say something offensive to another poster via private message, who would know unless the recipient either reported it or informed a moderator about what they received? If it were a threat, and that poster was hesitant to say anything, it would simply be hidden in the privacy of the system and that poster would have no recourse.

As bad as some thought the derailing of various public threads was, there were even more serious issues going on that no one knows about, and almost all of them which no one will ever know about because they're private messages that were not reported.

I've heard too (actually, it was reported on several occasions) that insulting messages were sent, then the sender blocked the recipient's account so they couldn't respond. Is that the kind of system people really want? If so, then the majority speaks. But i think even the ability for a poster to fire off an offensive message to another poster, then block them from responding, is ludicrous. And cowardly.

So my take is, if you have something to say, and you're coming to a community to interact with other fans, say it on the board. Groups of people in all walks of life have as many disagreements and arguments (and yes, fights) as they do gatherings where everyone is happy and getting along.

To have a system where there is even an inkling of "I can get away with it because I'm sending a private message and no one will know", then to further suggest if the recipient says anything they are the ones violating the rules...to me it invites a lot of abuse and bending of the rules, as well as people doing things that are against the rules going unnoticed or unchecked for days if not years because no one else might want to report it for fear of being exposed or subject to more abuse, short of being banned for violating the rules if they say anything.

There are many boards where there is simply no private messaging enabled. If members want to contact each other off the forum, they can voluntarily hide or make visible an email address or contact info. If they do not wish to be contacted, hide the email. Admins and moderators can still get in contact with members if necessary, but this hidden getting-away-with-it mentality is not an option.

If you come to the board and have something to say, even an axe to grind or an argument with someone, it's in the open. You come to the forum, what you say is public as part of the deal.

In terms of trying to improve the board, or make it a nicer place, sometimes the main issue holding back the mods/admins or anyone else is they have no idea what has been said between members in private messages, and whatever issues or tensions may have been smoldering under the privacy of these exchanges can explode on the public board at any time.

I just don't like nor agree with the notion that people might think they can get away with things via private messages that no one will see, and therefore continue to operate with immunity from the "rules of the board" that everyone else has to follow.

It's yet again a case of the few who choose to bend and break the rules that ruin it for others. But I've just become sick of how this veil of secrecy has not only allowed people to do things that would warrant a ban if it were public, and think there is immunity within the privacy of the function itself.

I don't expect to get any agreement on that, but as positive as it can be when used for the purposes for which it was designed, the PM system might also be to blame for some of the issues that have affected this board negatively. I don't like to see people who are dishonest if not outright liars gaming the system and flaunting it. I also don't like to hear about possible bullying or attempts to coerce members to say or do something via private message based on something they said on the board that ruffled feathers.

That is not what it's for. If that's what it is or was being used for, maybe some of the recipients can shed more light on what was going on so positive changes and tweaks can be made to improve it moving forward.

Maybe - just maybe - some of the issues that are apparently ruining the board had been festering in private message systems on this board which had more of a negative impact on the community than the decisions or actions done in public. If so, maybe the system itself needs to be addressed.

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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #104 on: May 23, 2016, 05:27:50 PM »

I personally am against the idea of doing away with PMs.
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« Reply #105 on: May 23, 2016, 05:28:16 PM »

This just isn't about what happened with the recent bannings. What I want to see is you treat the other threads in here the same way you treat the Brian threads. It irritates me that you defend Brian right down to auto tune on NPP, but never interject when members threadcrap on any Mike Love or Beach Boys threads. Again, I am looking for consistency from you and Billy too (just so you think I picking only on you). You chose to become a mod, so whenever you're in here, you are setting the example.

The guys that you, Billy & Chuck banned were all people that I had correspondence relationships with in here. That is no secret. And no, I don't think they are liars. Your friends and concert buddies continue in here unabated with their threadcraps and trolling behavior. With all of this, myself and any others who feel as I do seem to lose out on both counts. If I don't see action when they act up, then I will be sure you and Billy are made aware. I don't know what went on behind the scenes, but I surely see what goes on here, on the board. I'll be sure to keep you abreast, just in case you miss or overlook their behavior.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #106 on: May 23, 2016, 05:31:58 PM »

What don't you get about Mike's beard and Mikie harassing other Members of the BOARD, not band members....
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« Reply #107 on: May 23, 2016, 05:47:57 PM »

What don't you get about Mike's beard and Mikie harassing other Members of the BOARD, not band members....
People harass each other in here constantly. Hardly a thread opens up that somebody doesn't get in a pissing match. They are far from the only ones who lost control in this place. Plus, you should be one to talk. You have crapped on more threads than the action in a gas station toilet
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 05:48:52 PM by drbeachboy » Logged

The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #108 on: May 23, 2016, 05:53:48 PM »

[Perhaps those who were involved could shed more light on what they were doing and why if you'd ask them. Try Facebook since one of them just got banned.

Someone else got banned? Or are you referring to Mike's Beard/China Pig (?)?

I think, btw, that fuel was thrown on the objectivity fire when someone (forget who) pointed out that you also moderate on Brian Wilson's board. When some here were accusing AGD of being on Mike's payroll (blatant nonsense … would Mike let go of money so easily?!?!), this revelation looked unfortunate in light of the fact that the board's two prime trolls, LOSD and his young familiar Snail Brian, appeared able to attack Mike with impunity.*

For the same of clarity, then - purely honesty and clarity, note -  can I ask whether you receive any form of remuneration for your work on that board? CDs? Free concert tickets? Upgrades (m&g, soundcheck) to concert tickets? Etc etc - or is it purely voluntary with no reward?


* I have noted, at long last, an apparent reduction in their misbehaviour. If this is due to a restraining order, then you, GF, and Billy are due a note of grateful thanks!


Why, we're so damn fortunate that we have people here like you LOL to faithfully monitor, with incessant determination, our *behavior*. You can't even spell the word let alone determine just what is or isn't misbehavior is on this board. Quit trying to be an effig cop police will you? You're not a moderator. You don't make the rules and as far as I'm concerned, YOU'RE a troll, ok? Maybe it's time for you to hide behind you're favorite rock-The Hickey Script. You'll be all safe and warm there, Johnny Boy.
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« Reply #109 on: May 23, 2016, 06:06:55 PM »

GF, I really appreciate the time you're taking to discuss all this. I'm sorry to have called you out; I understand the feeling of stress you've been having; even without the added grief of unfounded accusations, the role of a mod here is really difficult. In this thread are good examples of the different ways people perceive problem threads and what should be done about them.
I just felt like your stress was beginning to spill out in inappropriate ways, which happens to everyone when they're deeply engaged.
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« Reply #110 on: May 23, 2016, 06:19:06 PM »

What don't you get about Mike's beard and Mikie harassing other Members of the BOARD, not band members....
People harass each other in here constantly. Hardly a thread opens up that somebody doesn't get in a pissing match. They are far from the only ones who lost control in this place. Plus, you should be one to talk. You have crapped on more threads than the action in a gas station toilet

Time for the doctor to write a prescription for himself for either a sedative or a laxative or both.  LOL
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« Reply #111 on: May 23, 2016, 06:25:29 PM »

What don't you get about Mike's beard and Mikie harassing other Members of the BOARD, not band members....
People harass each other in here constantly. Hardly a thread opens up that somebody doesn't get in a pissing match. They are far from the only ones who lost control in this place. Plus, you should be one to talk. You have crapped on more threads than the action in a gas station toilet

Time for the doctor to write a prescription for himself for either a sedative or a laxative or both.  LOL
I'm feeling relaxed and regular. It's the really old guys like you that need their prune juice and stool softeners. I'm not quite that old, yet. Wink
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #112 on: May 23, 2016, 06:31:00 PM »

A couple of opinions:
-I don't think it's a mod's place to suppress people's negative opinions about any of the band members. It's unfortunate that they exist and that there's such disagreement about it, but as long as the conversation is reasonably civil, silencing the expression of opinions wouldn't be right. Then it would truly be an agenda-driven board.
-The only woman posting here that I can think of off the top of my head who is completely open about her identity is Debbie KL. Whether women's discomfort with openly identifying themselves on an open board is validated by stats or not, it's real discomfort based on the many horror stories we hear on a regular basis.
-Also on the woman tip, I will leave Debbie to fight her fights, but I don't appreciate some of the ways people have referred to what she's said. Using references to 'claws' and implying that it must be some personal squabble seems condescending and sexist. Maybe just an unfortunate choice of terms, but some terms are loaded. Eta- Let me be clear here - this is my opinion I'm expressing. If you disagree, I'm not asking for censorship.
-Lastly, without pms, I wouldn't have been able to expand my relationships on the board to off-board. Again, I'm not comfortable plunking too much identifying information onto an open board. For that reason, I'm personally happy for the pm function.
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« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 06:37:10 PM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #113 on: May 23, 2016, 06:31:40 PM »

Guys...
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« Reply #114 on: May 23, 2016, 06:41:10 PM »

A couple of opinions:
-I don't think it's a mod's place to suppress people's negative opinions about any of the band members. It's unfortunate that they exist and that there's such disagreement about it, but as long as the conversation is reasonably civil, silencing the expression of opinions wouldn't be right. Then it would truly be an agenda-driven board.
-The only woman posting here that I can think of off the top of my head who is completely open about her identity is Debbie KL. Whether women's discomfort with openly identifying themselves on an open board is validated by stats or not, it's real discomfort based on the many horror stories we hear on a regular basis.
-Also on the woman tip, I will leave Debbie to fight her fights, but I don't appreciate some of the ways people have referred to what she's said. Using references to 'claws' and implying that it must be some personal squabble seems condescending and sexist. Maybe just an unfortunate choice of terms, but some terms are loaded.
-Lastly, without pms, I wouldn't have been able to expand my relationships on the board to off-board. Again, I'm not comfortable plunking too much identifying information onto an open board. For that reason, I'm personally happy for the pm function.
 Smiley
My name is Dirk and I am recovering Smiley Smile addict. If anyone wants to know who I am, all they have to do is ask. I have never hid it from Craig or Billy.

As to your first point. As opinionated as Craig is, how are any of us supposed to know when he defends a point whether it is as a fan or as a mod? If you take on the role of mod, then every time you logon in here you are the moderator. You can't pick and choose, because there is no way for any of the rest of us to know. You want to be a mod? Than that is the price you pay to be one.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 06:43:03 PM by drbeachboy » Logged

The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #115 on: May 23, 2016, 06:51:52 PM »

A couple of opinions:
-I don't think it's a mod's place to suppress people's negative opinions about any of the band members. It's unfortunate that they exist and that there's such disagreement about it, but as long as the conversation is reasonably civil, silencing the expression of opinions wouldn't be right. Then it would truly be an agenda-driven board.
-The only woman posting here that I can think of off the top of my head who is completely open about her identity is Debbie KL. Whether women's discomfort with openly identifying themselves on an open board is validated by stats or not, it's real discomfort based on the many horror stories we hear on a regular basis.
-Also on the woman tip, I will leave Debbie to fight her fights, but I don't appreciate some of the ways people have referred to what she's said. Using references to 'claws' and implying that it must be some personal squabble seems condescending and sexist. Maybe just an unfortunate choice of terms, but some terms are loaded.
-Lastly, without pms, I wouldn't have been able to expand my relationships on the board to off-board. Again, I'm not comfortable plunking too much identifying information onto an open board. For that reason, I'm personally happy for the pm function.
 Smiley
My name is Dirk and I am recovering Smiley Smile addict. If anyone wants to know who I am, all they have to do is ask. I have never hid it from Craig or Billy.

As to your first point. As opinionated as Craig is, how are any of us supposed to know when he defends a point whether it is as a fan or as a mod? If you take on the role of mod, then every time you logon in here you are the moderator. You can't pick and choose, because there is no way for any of the rest of us to know. You want to be a mod? Than that is the price you pay to be one.
I agree that a moderator should be careful to moderate his/her tone; like I've said before, it's a bit like being a manager; you can enter the conversation, but you always have to watch how you say things in order to set a model of free, open conversation without suppressing anybody or encouraging incivility. Just my opinion. Billy (I'm just going to call him that because  'Beef Skittles') and GF have both pointed out that a mod is still also a posting member of the community who doesn't lose their right to engage when they become a mod, and I appreciate that point. As I said above, my opinion on this is still 'evolving'. It's a little complex.
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« Reply #116 on: May 23, 2016, 07:02:15 PM »

A couple of opinions:
-I don't think it's a mod's place to suppress people's negative opinions about any of the band members. It's unfortunate that they exist and that there's such disagreement about it, but as long as the conversation is reasonably civil, silencing the expression of opinions wouldn't be right. Then it would truly be an agenda-driven board.
-The only woman posting here that I can think of off the top of my head who is completely open about her identity is Debbie KL. Whether women's discomfort with openly identifying themselves on an open board is validated by stats or not, it's real discomfort based on the many horror stories we hear on a regular basis.
-Also on the woman tip, I will leave Debbie to fight her fights, but I don't appreciate some of the ways people have referred to what she's said. Using references to 'claws' and implying that it must be some personal squabble seems condescending and sexist. Maybe just an unfortunate choice of terms, but some terms are loaded.
-Lastly, without pms, I wouldn't have been able to expand my relationships on the board to off-board. Again, I'm not comfortable plunking too much identifying information onto an open board. For that reason, I'm personally happy for the pm function.
 Smiley
My name is Dirk and I am recovering Smiley Smile addict. If anyone wants to know who I am, all they have to do is ask. I have never hid it from Craig or Billy.

As to your first point. As opinionated as Craig is, how are any of us supposed to know when he defends a point whether it is as a fan or as a mod? If you take on the role of mod, then every time you logon in here you are the moderator. You can't pick and choose, because there is no way for any of the rest of us to know. You want to be a mod? Than that is the price you pay to be one.
I agree that a moderator should be careful to moderate his/her tone; like I've said before, it's a bit like being a manager; you can enter the conversation, but you always have to watch how you say things in order to set a model of free, open conversation without suppressing anybody or encouraging incivility. Just my opinion. Billy (I'm just going to call him that because  'Beef Skittles') and GF have both pointed out that a mod is still also a posting member of the community who doesn't lose their right to engage when they become a mod, and I appreciate that point. As I said above, my opinion on this is still 'evolving'. It's a little complex.
I have no problem with posting as a regular member, but when they get embroiled in an argument, then they should recuse  themselves from moderating in that particular thread.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
Emily
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« Reply #117 on: May 23, 2016, 07:16:14 PM »

A couple of opinions:
-I don't think it's a mod's place to suppress people's negative opinions about any of the band members. It's unfortunate that they exist and that there's such disagreement about it, but as long as the conversation is reasonably civil, silencing the expression of opinions wouldn't be right. Then it would truly be an agenda-driven board.
-The only woman posting here that I can think of off the top of my head who is completely open about her identity is Debbie KL. Whether women's discomfort with openly identifying themselves on an open board is validated by stats or not, it's real discomfort based on the many horror stories we hear on a regular basis.
-Also on the woman tip, I will leave Debbie to fight her fights, but I don't appreciate some of the ways people have referred to what she's said. Using references to 'claws' and implying that it must be some personal squabble seems condescending and sexist. Maybe just an unfortunate choice of terms, but some terms are loaded.
-Lastly, without pms, I wouldn't have been able to expand my relationships on the board to off-board. Again, I'm not comfortable plunking too much identifying information onto an open board. For that reason, I'm personally happy for the pm function.
 Smiley
My name is Dirk and I am recovering Smiley Smile addict. If anyone wants to know who I am, all they have to do is ask. I have never hid it from Craig or Billy.

As to your first point. As opinionated as Craig is, how are any of us supposed to know when he defends a point whether it is as a fan or as a mod? If you take on the role of mod, then every time you logon in here you are the moderator. You can't pick and choose, because there is no way for any of the rest of us to know. You want to be a mod? Than that is the price you pay to be one.
I agree that a moderator should be careful to moderate his/her tone; like I've said before, it's a bit like being a manager; you can enter the conversation, but you always have to watch how you say things in order to set a model of free, open conversation without suppressing anybody or encouraging incivility. Just my opinion. Billy (I'm just going to call him that because  'Beef Skittles') and GF have both pointed out that a mod is still also a posting member of the community who doesn't lose their right to engage when they become a mod, and I appreciate that point. As I said above, my opinion on this is still 'evolving'. It's a little complex.
I have no problem with posting as a regular member, but when they get embroiled in an argument, then they should recuse  themselves from moderating in that particular thread.
I think one of the difficulties with this is that it's not a paying job. The only real reason anyone would be a moderator is that they are here anyway, enjoying engaging in the threads. If you take that away, then why would they be a moderator? 'Argument' is a soft term. One person's discussion is another person's argument.  So, I think a mod shouldn't really be arguing at all, if we mean angry arguing. If it's debating or discussing civilly, then it shouldn't be an issue. I don't think.
Let me point out here that, of course, this is not my board and I don't imagine that I'm establishing, or should be establishing, rules or guidelines for mods or posters. Nor have I thought extensively about it, as I'm sure Mr. LePage and the mods have. I'm just conversing and sharing my thoughts.
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drbeachboy
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« Reply #118 on: May 23, 2016, 07:26:56 PM »

A couple of opinions:
-I don't think it's a mod's place to suppress people's negative opinions about any of the band members. It's unfortunate that they exist and that there's such disagreement about it, but as long as the conversation is reasonably civil, silencing the expression of opinions wouldn't be right. Then it would truly be an agenda-driven board.
-The only woman posting here that I can think of off the top of my head who is completely open about her identity is Debbie KL. Whether women's discomfort with openly identifying themselves on an open board is validated by stats or not, it's real discomfort based on the many horror stories we hear on a regular basis.
-Also on the woman tip, I will leave Debbie to fight her fights, but I don't appreciate some of the ways people have referred to what she's said. Using references to 'claws' and implying that it must be some personal squabble seems condescending and sexist. Maybe just an unfortunate choice of terms, but some terms are loaded.
-Lastly, without pms, I wouldn't have been able to expand my relationships on the board to off-board. Again, I'm not comfortable plunking too much identifying information onto an open board. For that reason, I'm personally happy for the pm function.
 Smiley
My name is Dirk and I am recovering Smiley Smile addict. If anyone wants to know who I am, all they have to do is ask. I have never hid it from Craig or Billy.

As to your first point. As opinionated as Craig is, how are any of us supposed to know when he defends a point whether it is as a fan or as a mod? If you take on the role of mod, then every time you logon in here you are the moderator. You can't pick and choose, because there is no way for any of the rest of us to know. You want to be a mod? Than that is the price you pay to be one.
I agree that a moderator should be careful to moderate his/her tone; like I've said before, it's a bit like being a manager; you can enter the conversation, but you always have to watch how you say things in order to set a model of free, open conversation without suppressing anybody or encouraging incivility. Just my opinion. Billy (I'm just going to call him that because  'Beef Skittles') and GF have both pointed out that a mod is still also a posting member of the community who doesn't lose their right to engage when they become a mod, and I appreciate that point. As I said above, my opinion on this is still 'evolving'. It's a little complex.
I have no problem with posting as a regular member, but when they get embroiled in an argument, then they should recuse  themselves from moderating in that particular thread.
I think one of the difficulties with this is that it's not a paying job. The only real reason anyone would be a moderator is that they are here anyway, enjoying engaging in the threads. If you take that away, then why would they be a moderator? 'Argument' is a soft term. One person's discussion is another person's argument.  So, I think a mod shouldn't really be arguing at all, if we mean angry arguing. If it's debating or discussing civilly, then it shouldn't be an issue. I don't think.
Let me point out here that, of course, this is not my board and I don't imagine that I'm establishing, or should be establishing, rules or guidelines for mods or posters. Nor have I thought extensively about it, as I'm sure Mr. LePage and the mods have. I'm just conversing and sharing my thoughts.
Reguardless, if you sign up for the job, then take what comes with it, if not, let someone else who is willing to do it.
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The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #119 on: May 23, 2016, 07:40:59 PM »

A couple of opinions:
-I don't think it's a mod's place to suppress people's negative opinions about any of the band members. It's unfortunate that they exist and that there's such disagreement about it, but as long as the conversation is reasonably civil, silencing the expression of opinions wouldn't be right. Then it would truly be an agenda-driven board.
-The only woman posting here that I can think of off the top of my head who is completely open about her identity is Debbie KL. Whether women's discomfort with openly identifying themselves on an open board is validated by stats or not, it's real discomfort based on the many horror stories we hear on a regular basis.
-Also on the woman tip, I will leave Debbie to fight her fights, but I don't appreciate some of the ways people have referred to what she's said. Using references to 'claws' and implying that it must be some personal squabble seems condescending and sexist. Maybe just an unfortunate choice of terms, but some terms are loaded.
-Lastly, without pms, I wouldn't have been able to expand my relationships on the board to off-board. Again, I'm not comfortable plunking too much identifying information onto an open board. For that reason, I'm personally happy for the pm function.
 Smiley
My name is Dirk and I am recovering Smiley Smile addict. If anyone wants to know who I am, all they have to do is ask. I have never hid it from Craig or Billy.

As to your first point. As opinionated as Craig is, how are any of us supposed to know when he defends a point whether it is as a fan or as a mod? If you take on the role of mod, then every time you logon in here you are the moderator. You can't pick and choose, because there is no way for any of the rest of us to know. You want to be a mod? Than that is the price you pay to be one.

Craig opinionated??? Huh He's a fan/mod and a good one. You've done nothing on here but state you're opinion on basically nothing but your distaste for him. To be honest, I'm surprised he hasn't tossed you out on your ear, man. He was chosen, thank god, to be a mod here and he fits here perfectly in spite of what you and your posse have to say. If all you're gonna do here is criticize a fellow board member then take a hike. Have a little respect for who's in charge here, man.
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« Reply #120 on: May 23, 2016, 08:05:13 PM »

Real quick before I get back from break...

many forums, if you raise concerns about a mod, or worse, complain about him/her publicly, it can end up in a ban. Thankfully, that is not the case here, nor will it ever be.
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The Cincinnati Kid
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« Reply #121 on: May 23, 2016, 08:07:02 PM »

Who is part of this conspiracy to remove guitarfool as mod, besides AGD?

?

My issue with GF isn't about this recent belief that he bans people on his own, but rather he tries to suppress opinions he doesn't like.  Just like with my ban he accused me of not knowing what I was talking about when I was talking about something completely different... changing the goal posts to suit his argument.  I even offered to take it to pm because there was no reason to have that silly debate waste space.  Turns out we were talking about two different threads.  Once I made that clear, he kept going asking if I've had my say, because it's foolish, not even acknowledging that I was talking about something else.  I know he was just dying to ban me at that point.  He got his way when Billy misunderstood something I said.  Thankfully, we talked about it since then everything's cool now.  That's why almost everyone loves Billy, he's willing to admit a mistake and listen to suggestions.  That's what makes him a great mod.
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drbeachboy
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« Reply #122 on: May 23, 2016, 08:10:03 PM »

A couple of opinions:
-I don't think it's a mod's place to suppress people's negative opinions about any of the band members. It's unfortunate that they exist and that there's such disagreement about it, but as long as the conversation is reasonably civil, silencing the expression of opinions wouldn't be right. Then it would truly be an agenda-driven board.
-The only woman posting here that I can think of off the top of my head who is completely open about her identity is Debbie KL. Whether women's discomfort with openly identifying themselves on an open board is validated by stats or not, it's real discomfort based on the many horror stories we hear on a regular basis.
-Also on the woman tip, I will leave Debbie to fight her fights, but I don't appreciate some of the ways people have referred to what she's said. Using references to 'claws' and implying that it must be some personal squabble seems condescending and sexist. Maybe just an unfortunate choice of terms, but some terms are loaded.
-Lastly, without pms, I wouldn't have been able to expand my relationships on the board to off-board. Again, I'm not comfortable plunking too much identifying information onto an open board. For that reason, I'm personally happy for the pm function.
 Smiley
My name is Dirk and I am recovering Smiley Smile addict. If anyone wants to know who I am, all they have to do is ask. I have never hid it from Craig or Billy.

As to your first point. As opinionated as Craig is, how are any of us supposed to know when he defends a point whether it is as a fan or as a mod? If you take on the role of mod, then every time you logon in here you are the moderator. You can't pick and choose, because there is no way for any of the rest of us to know. You want to be a mod? Than that is the price you pay to be one.

Craig opinionated??? Huh He's a fan/mod and a good one. You've done nothing on here but state you're opinion on basically nothing but your distaste for him. To be honest, I'm surprised he hasn't tossed you out on your ear, man. He was chosen, thank god, to be a mod here and he fits here perfectly in spite of what you and your posse have to say. If all you're gonna do here is criticize a fellow board member then take a hike. Have a little respect for who's in charge here, man.
OSD, if he wants to prove my point, he can ban me. As for a taking a hike, you should have had your walking papers ages ago. You should be the last person to talk about respect. Your lack of it has caused many issues in here over the years. He is your concert buddy, so I understand your concern.
Logged

The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #123 on: May 23, 2016, 08:18:05 PM »

What is this 'concert buddy' stuff?

Legit question... I really don't know what you mean by that or are implying
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 08:35:51 PM by ♩♬ Billy C ♯♫♩ » Logged

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« Reply #124 on: May 23, 2016, 08:37:12 PM »

Who is part of this conspiracy to remove guitarfool as mod, besides AGD?

?

My issue with GF isn't about this recent belief that he bans people on his own, but rather he tries to suppress opinions he doesn't like.  Just like with my ban he accused me of not knowing what I was talking about when I was talking about something completely different... changing the goal posts to suit his argument.  I even offered to take it to pm because there was no reason to have that silly debate waste space.  Turns out we were talking about two different threads.  Once I made that clear, he kept going asking if I've had my say, because it's foolish, not even acknowledging that I was talking about something else.  I know he was just dying to ban me at that point.  He got his way when Billy misunderstood something I said.  Thankfully, we talked about it since then everything's cool now.  That's why almost everyone loves Billy, he's willing to admit a mistake and listen to suggestions.  That's what makes him a great mod.

Only Billy apologized?
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"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
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