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Author Topic: RARE 1969 Paris Concert footage + mixer's comments  (Read 14556 times)
Mooger Fooger
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« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2016, 09:05:05 AM »

I must say the version of Do It Again, with the ultra cool effects on the drums, absolutely cooks at this concert. My jaw hit the ground when I watched that bit. Also, I have the distinct impression that the band put alot of energy behind their new (at that time) stuff. Am I wrong with this observation?
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Jon Stebbins
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« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2016, 10:27:03 AM »

This is the first I've heard of Bruce and Julliard.  I looked on the web and can't find anything to substantiate this.  Did he visit?  He certainly doesn't have a degree or we'd have heard about it ad naseum like we have his grammy.  You'd think someone with that skill set would actually be audible in performances.  One problem I have with Bruce is his incredible dorkyness.  Is there a person in rock n roll that could possibly be any less rock n roll? 
[I guess the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame has a differing opinion than you do about Bruce, since he's been admitted into that exclusive club for many years and is involved in every essential song on their list for the group. The Beach Boys have a very long history. You should review that history starting with the '60s.[/size] ~swd
The R&R Hall of Fame is probably not the best example when advocating for Bruce as he was not inducted into the Rock Hall Of Fame along with the others in 1988 and as of 2016 Bruce is still considered one of the Hall's major snubs http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23713.0.html

Somehow the Hall of Fame's official Beach Boys bio doesn't even mention Bruce's name until paragraph 15. https://rockhall.com/inductees/the-beach-boys/

David Marks got the same basic treatment until about 2008 when the hall added him to the group's bio (paragraph 3), held a Q&A with him on-site, and added his biography to their on-site book store. But in reality neither Bruce nor David are considered official inductees.

In my opinion I'd think any fair historical assessment would include both Bruce and David as official Rock Hall inductees, with Bruce being the band's second longest serving member who significantly contributed to their artistic peak, and David being involved in the genesis of the group's creation and their initial rise to fame.
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2016, 11:11:11 AM »

Bruce is an enigmatic character in a band whose actions have at times been mysterious. He replaced Brian in 1965 on the road, and clearly brought significant musical chops to live performances, but his contributions in the studio remain murky and mysterious until the so-called "rudderless democracy" period (which, as we know now, was a time frame in which the rest of the band evolved into essentially self-sufficient songwriters and producers, usually in collaboration with Stephen "Sound Visionary" Desper).

Stephen, what can you tell us about Bruce's work in the studio in that time frame? While it's true that during thus time frame Bruce did show an aversion to the material in the BB's evolving canon that rocked hard, he had a few notable moments, particularly in the creation of "Disney Girls," which has some wonderful production touches. I may simply have missed it, but have you written at all about the production history of that song?
COMMENT:  Comments about Bruce are in my book and part two.  Going back all the way from God Only Knows' ending, through the Surf's Up vocal fade, Bruce's vocal arrangements have played a major roll in many songs or been a behind-the-scene influence and driving force. You just don't know about it. ~swd
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2016, 11:27:35 AM »

This is the first I've heard of Bruce and Julliard.  I looked on the web and can't find anything to substantiate this.  Did he visit?  He certainly doesn't have a degree or we'd have heard about it ad naseum like we have his grammy.  You'd think someone with that skill set would actually be audible in performances.  One problem I have with Bruce is his incredible dorkyness.  Is there a person in rock n roll that could possibly be any less rock n roll?  
[I guess the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame has a differing opinion than you do about Bruce, since he's been admitted into that exclusive club for many years and is involved in every essential song on their list for the group. The Beach Boys have a very long history. You should review that history starting with the '60s.[/size] ~swd
The R&R Hall of Fame is probably not the best example when advocating for Bruce as he was not inducted into the Rock Hall Of Fame along with the others in 1988 and as of 2016 Bruce is still considered one of the Hall's major snubs http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23713.0.html

Somehow the Hall of Fame's official Beach Boys bio doesn't even mention Bruce's name until paragraph 15. https://rockhall.com/inductees/the-beach-boys/

David Marks got the same basic treatment until about 2008 when the hall added him to the group's bio (paragraph 3), held a Q&A with him on-site, and added his biography to their on-site book store. But in reality neither Bruce nor David are considered official inductees.

In my opinion I'd think any fair historical assessment would include both Bruce and David as official Rock Hall inductees, with Bruce being the band's second longest serving member who significantly contributed to their artistic peak, and David being involved in the genesis of the group's creation and their initial rise to fame.

+1

Maybe it's just me but to me Bruce is probably second only to Brian in group vocal harmony arrangements.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 11:30:14 AM by Cam Mott » Logged

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« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2016, 11:43:35 AM »

So he didn't go to Julliard and isn't in the rock n roll hall of fame, and now i'm supposed to believe he helped arrange God Only Knows and Surf's Up?  For the record, I think you Stephen are far more integral to Beach Boys history than Bruce.  I adore your work with The Beach Boys.  I just find Bruce, who is a talented guy i'm sure, very overrated.  Not trying to flame here, honestly.     
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Custom Machine
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« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2016, 01:11:15 PM »


In my opinion I'd think any fair historical assessment would include both Bruce and David as official Rock Hall inductees, with Bruce being the band's second longest serving member who significantly contributed to their artistic peak, and David being involved in the genesis of the group's creation and their initial rise to fame.


Totally agree. But has the R&R HoF ever officially added any members after a group's induction ceremony? If not, Bruce and David would be a good place to start.
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drbeachboy
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« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2016, 02:02:10 PM »

So he didn't go to Julliard and isn't in the rock n roll hall of fame, and now i'm supposed to believe he helped arrange God Only Knows and Surf's Up?  For the record, I think you Stephen are far more integral to Beach Boys history than Bruce.  I adore your work with The Beach Boys.  I just find Bruce, who is a talented guy i'm sure, very overrated.  Not trying to flame here, honestly.     
Please tell us of Bruce's unimportance to the band. What do you know about this that we and Stephen don't know.
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2016, 02:09:33 PM »

Mars, all opinions are still welcome here. I think.

How many years was it again, you worked with Bruce and the Boys?   angel
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« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2016, 02:38:25 PM »


In my opinion I'd think any fair historical assessment would include both Bruce and David as official Rock Hall inductees, with Bruce being the band's second longest serving member who significantly contributed to their artistic peak, and David being involved in the genesis of the group's creation and their initial rise to fame.


Totally agree. But has the R&R HoF ever officially added any members after a group's induction ceremony? If not, Bruce and David would be a good place to start.

They should also induct Doug Yule from the Velvet Underground and the late Bob Welch from Fleetwood Mac while they're at it.  It's a shame neither of those omissions have been corrected by this point.
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2016, 07:25:47 PM »

So he didn't go to Julliard and isn't in the rock n roll hall of fame, and now i'm supposed to believe he helped arrange God Only Knows and Surf's Up?  For the record, I think you Stephen are far more integral to Beach Boys history than Bruce.  I adore your work with The Beach Boys.  I just find Bruce, who is a talented guy i'm sure, very overrated.  Not trying to flame here, honestly.     

COMMENT to If Mars had life on it...: Sorry that you misunderstood me. Bruce did attend classes at Julliard, and is a classical trained musician who later switched to contemporary music. Bruce is a member of the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame. He did play a part in the arrangement of the ending of God Only Knows. He has been a major force in the years of vocal arrangements between GOK and Surf's Up, the latter song's ending is his arrangement and he is BY FAR much more integral to the Beach Boys' history, music, and success, than yours truly ever was. If anything, he is very underrated with respect to the application of his talent to The Beach Boys. Do I make myself clear? ~swd
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2016, 07:33:02 PM »

This is the first I've heard of Bruce and Julliard.  I looked on the web and can't find anything to substantiate this.  Did he visit?  He certainly doesn't have a degree or we'd have heard about it ad naseum like we have his grammy.  You'd think someone with that skill set would actually be audible in performances.  One problem I have with Bruce is his incredible dorkyness.  Is there a person in rock n roll that could possibly be any less rock n roll? 
[I guess the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame has a differing opinion than you do about Bruce, since he's been admitted into that exclusive club for many years and is involved in every essential song on their list for the group. The Beach Boys have a very long history. You should review that history starting with the '60s.[/size] ~swd
The R&R Hall of Fame is probably not the best example when advocating for Bruce as he was not inducted into the Rock Hall Of Fame along with the others in 1988 and as of 2016 Bruce is still considered one of the Hall's major snubs http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23713.0.html

Somehow the Hall of Fame's official Beach Boys bio doesn't even mention Bruce's name until paragraph 15. https://rockhall.com/inductees/the-beach-boys/

David Marks got the same basic treatment until about 2008 when the hall added him to the group's bio (paragraph 3), held a Q&A with him on-site, and added his biography to their on-site book store. But in reality neither Bruce nor David are considered official inductees.

In my opinion I'd think any fair historical assessment would include both Bruce and David as official Rock Hall inductees, with Bruce being the band's second longest serving member who significantly contributed to their artistic peak, and David being involved in the genesis of the group's creation and their initial rise to fame.
COMMENT to Jon Stebbins:  What you cite is a bio of the group. Bruce has always been involved with the group. What I would think is important are the songs to which the Rock Hall pays tribute ... and each of those involves Bruce's influence and performance.  ~swd
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #61 on: May 21, 2016, 10:59:48 PM »

BTW, may I say what an honor it is to engage in discussion with Mr. Desper. Very kind of you to drop in here.
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« Reply #62 on: May 22, 2016, 03:43:34 AM »

So he didn't go to Julliard and isn't in the rock n roll hall of fame, and now i'm supposed to believe he helped arrange God Only Knows and Surf's Up?  For the record, I think you Stephen are far more integral to Beach Boys history than Bruce.  I adore your work with The Beach Boys.  I just find Bruce, who is a talented guy i'm sure, very overrated.  Not trying to flame here, honestly.     

COMMENT to If Mars had life on it...: Sorry that you misunderstood me. Bruce did attend classes at Julliard, and is a classical trained musician who later switched to contemporary music. Bruce is a member of the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame. He did play a part in the arrangement of the ending of God Only Knows. He has been a major force in the years of vocal arrangements between GOK and Surf's Up, the latter song's ending is his arrangement and he is BY FAR much more integral to the Beach Boys' history, music, and success, than yours truly ever was. If anything, he is very underrated with respect to the application of his talent to The Beach Boys. Do I make myself clear? ~swd

Interesting and impressive that Bruce arranged the '71 SU tag, Stephen. THis has probably been answered through the years, but can you comment on whether there was an original group vocal arrangement for the tag when written in '66? It seems like, if so, what eventually emerged would have been logical then as well.
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Jon Stebbins
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« Reply #63 on: May 22, 2016, 08:18:34 AM »

This is the first I've heard of Bruce and Julliard.  I looked on the web and can't find anything to substantiate this.  Did he visit?  He certainly doesn't have a degree or we'd have heard about it ad naseum like we have his grammy.  You'd think someone with that skill set would actually be audible in performances.  One problem I have with Bruce is his incredible dorkyness.  Is there a person in rock n roll that could possibly be any less rock n roll? 
[I guess the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame has a differing opinion than you do about Bruce, since he's been admitted into that exclusive club for many years and is involved in every essential song on their list for the group. The Beach Boys have a very long history. You should review that history starting with the '60s.[/size] ~swd
The R&R Hall of Fame is probably not the best example when advocating for Bruce as he was not inducted into the Rock Hall Of Fame along with the others in 1988 and as of 2016 Bruce is still considered one of the Hall's major snubs http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23713.0.html

Somehow the Hall of Fame's official Beach Boys bio doesn't even mention Bruce's name until paragraph 15. https://rockhall.com/inductees/the-beach-boys/

David Marks got the same basic treatment until about 2008 when the hall added him to the group's bio (paragraph 3), held a Q&A with him on-site, and added his biography to their on-site book store. But in reality neither Bruce nor David are considered official inductees.

In my opinion I'd think any fair historical assessment would include both Bruce and David as official Rock Hall inductees, with Bruce being the band's second longest serving member who significantly contributed to their artistic peak, and David being involved in the genesis of the group's creation and their initial rise to fame.
COMMENT to Jon Stebbins:  What you cite is a bio of the group. Bruce has always been involved with the group. What I would think is important are the songs to which the Rock Hall pays tribute ... and each of those involves Bruce's influence and performance.  ~swd
I'm confused. I've stated above that IMO Bruce should be officially inducted into the R&R Hall, but the unfortunate fact seems to be that he is not. When you say he's "always" been involved with the group I'd think it is important to clarify. He did not contribute tp their music until the sessions for their 14th single, and their 10th LP. It's a simple fact that the Beach Boys were a massive hit act for years before Bruce joined the group. This however does not mean he was not a major contributor to their artistic peak which of course occurred after he joined.

Also, I'm wondering what the source you are citing for the "important" songs according to the Rock Hall? The only one I know of is the Rock Hall curator's list of 500 Songs That Shaped Rock. http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/steveparker/halloffame.htm The Beach Boys five songs on the list are California Girls, Good Vibrations, God Only Knows (all of which Bruce was a part of), and Don't Worry Baby, Surfin USA (both of which Bruce was not a part of).  The Rock Hall's Beach Boys page lists a slightly different set of songs as "essential" http://rockhall.com/inductees/the-beach-boys/ They are Good Vibrations, Wouldn't It Be Nice, California Girls, God Only Knows (all of which Bruce contributed to) and Fun Fun Fun, Surfin USA (both of which Bruce did not contribute to).

And BTW thank you for your great contributions to the Beach Boys sound. It's always a pleasure to listen to the material that was produced during the period that you were involved.
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2016, 06:02:04 PM »

This is the first I've heard of Bruce and Julliard.  I looked on the web and can't find anything to substantiate this.  Did he visit?  He certainly doesn't have a degree or we'd have heard about it ad naseum like we have his grammy.  You'd think someone with that skill set would actually be audible in performances.  One problem I have with Bruce is his incredible dorkyness.  Is there a person in rock n roll that could possibly be any less rock n roll? 
[I guess the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame has a differing opinion than you do about Bruce, since he's been admitted into that exclusive club for many years and is involved in every essential song on their list for the group. The Beach Boys have a very long history. You should review that history starting with the '60s.[/size] ~swd

COMMENT to
The R&R Hall of Fame is probably not the best example when advocating for Bruce as he was not inducted into the Rock Hall Of Fame along with the others in 1988 and as of 2016 Bruce is still considered one of the Hall's major snubs http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23713.0.html

Somehow the Hall of Fame's official Beach Boys bio doesn't even mention Bruce's name until paragraph 15. https://rockhall.com/inductees/the-beach-boys/

David Marks got the same basic treatment until about 2008 when the hall added him to the group's bio (paragraph 3), held a Q&A with him on-site, and added his biography to their on-site book store. But in reality neither Bruce nor David are considered official inductees.

In my opinion I'd think any fair historical assessment would include both Bruce and David as official Rock Hall inductees, with Bruce being the band's second longest serving member who significantly contributed to their artistic peak, and David being involved in the genesis of the group's creation and their initial rise to fame.
COMMENT to Jon Stebbins:  What you cite is a bio of the group. Bruce has always been involved with the group. What I would think is important are the songs to which the Rock Hall pays tribute ... and each of those involves Bruce's influence and performance.  ~swd
I'm confused. I've stated above that IMO Bruce should be officially inducted into the R&R Hall, but the unfortunate fact seems to be that he is not. When you say he's "always" been involved with the group I'd think it is important to clarify. He did not contribute tp their music until the sessions for their 14th single, and their 10th LP. It's a simple fact that the Beach Boys were a massive hit act for years before Bruce joined the group. This however does not mean he was not a major contributor to their artistic peak which of course occurred after he joined.

Also, I'm wondering what the source you are citing for the "important" songs according to the Rock Hall? The only one I know of is the Rock Hall curator's list of 500 Songs That Shaped Rock. http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/steveparker/halloffame.htm The Beach Boys five songs on the list are California Girls, Good Vibrations, God Only Knows (all of which Bruce was a part of), and Don't Worry Baby, Surfin USA (both of which Bruce was not a part of).  The Rock Hall's Beach Boys page lists a slightly different set of songs as "essential" http://rockhall.com/inductees/the-beach-boys/ They are Good Vibrations, Wouldn't It Be Nice, California Girls, God Only Knows (all of which Bruce contributed to) and Fun Fun Fun, Surfin USA (both of which Bruce did not contribute to).

And BTW thank you for your great contributions to the Beach Boys sound. It's always a pleasure to listen to the material that was produced during the period that you were involved.

COMMENT to Jon Stebbins:   Sorry to confuse you, so let's clarify each point one at a time, at least from my point of view.

When I said that Bruce has always been an influence, I mean in general, whether officially a member or not, he has been there -- in and out. These guys don't live in individual bubbles only seeing each other on official, documented periods of time. Influence is not something you turn off like a faucet. In the very early days of Beach Boy-ism, Bruce was a staff producer at Columbia, a major hangout of Brian's. Hollywood is a small town when influence is the topic.

Here are quotes from WikipediA about Bruce's early life. Read it and know that the circles of influence converge and intermingle.
Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Johnston 

1957–65: Beginnings

In high school, Johnston switched to contemporary music after years of studying classical piano. He performed in a few "beginning" bands during this time and then moved on to working with young musicians such as Sandy Nelson, Kim Fowley, and Phil Spector. Soon Johnston began backing people such as Ritchie Valens, the Everly Brothers, and Eddie Cochran. In 1959, while still in high school, Johnston arranged and played on his first hit record, "Teen Beat" by Sandy Nelson. The single reached the Billboard Top Ten. The same year, Johnston made his first single under his own name, "Take This Pearl" on Arwin Records (a record label owned by Doris Day) as part of the Bruce & Jerry duo (Jerry Cooper was a high school friend of Bruce's).

In 1960, Johnston started his record production career at Del-Fi Records, producing five singles and an album – Love You So – by Ron Holden (all but two of the album's eleven tracks were written or co-written by Johnston). In 1962 and 1963, Johnston continued his recording career with a series of surfin' singles (vocal & instrumental) and an album, Surfin' 'Round The World, credited to Bruce Johnston, and another "live" album, The Bruce Johnston Surfin' Band's Surfer's Pajama Party. In 1963 came the first collaboration with his friend Terry Melcher (Doris Day's son), a mostly instrumental covers album credited to The Hot Doggers. The first artist the pair produced was a group called the Rip Chords. Johnston and Melcher were now working as staff producers at Columbia Records, Hollywood and by the time they were producing the million selling "Hey Little Cobra", a knock-off of the Beach Boys car song vocal style, they also wound up singing every layered vocal part for the recording using an Ampex three track recording machine. The two of them made a few recordings as Bruce & Terry and the Rogues, but Melcher began to focus more on his production career (with the Byrds, Paul Revere & the Raiders).

Jon, I have the advantage over printed documentation in that I have spent many hours with Bruce and know about his past from him personally. The above should give you some indication that Bruce was not a stranger to the record industry or to circles of upstart groups in Hollywood, CA. Just open your mind.

1965–72: The Beach Boys

On April 9, 1965, Johnston joined the Beach Boys, replacing Glen Campbell, who was playing bass on the road and singing Brian Wilson's vocal parts. Johnston did not start playing bass until his first tenure with the Beach Boys, and the very first vocal recording Johnston made as one of the Beach Boys was "California Girls" (although for contractual reasons he would not be credited or photographed on a Beach Boys album until 1967 on the Wild Honey album[citation. Johnston is frequently credited as one of the original greatest supporters of the Beach Boys' 1966 signature album Pet Sounds. He flew to London in May 1966 and played the album for John Lennon and Paul McCartney. He wrote several Beach Boys songs: The Nearest Faraway Place (instrumental) and notably 1971's "Disney Girls (1957)", which was covered by Cass Elliot, Captain & Tennille, Art Garfunkel, Jack Jones, and Doris Day. Johnston also sang lead on three songs from the 1970 Beach Boys album Sunflower: "Tears In The Morning", "Deirdre", and "At My Window".

Jon, I could add to the above, as could many who read this thread, but you get the idea -- Bruce is an active fellow, documented or not.

1972–77: Solo career

Johnston left the Beach Boys in 1972 to embark on a solo career, and wrote the Billboard number one, Barry Manilow hit "I Write the Songs", for which he won a Grammy Award for Song of the Year. "I Write the Songs" has been recorded by over two hundred artists (including Frank Sinatra), and it currently has a cumulative singles/albums worldwide sales figure of twenty-five million copies.

Jon, Bruce seemed to excel even without the Beach Boys as this is the major source of Bruce's current personal net worth of 25 million dollars.

1978–present: Return to the Beach Boys

Johnston returned to the fold in 1978 at Brian Wilson's request to appear on (and co-produce) the album L.A. (Light Album). The following year he was credited as sole producer on the follow-up LP, Keepin' the Summer Alive. Johnston has remained with the Beach Boys ever since and was the only member to continue touring with Mike Love as The Beach Boys after the death of Carl Wilson. In June 2012, Johnston, Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, and David Marks reunited for a new album and 50th anniversary tour. Despite his long involvement with the band, he no longer has a full membership in Brother Records, having traded his shares (but not his artist royalties) in 1972. Johnston still retains his equal ownership of the band's ASCAP publishing company, Wilojarston, and is the only member of the band to have earned a Grammy Award for Song of the Year.

Jon, As to his acknowledgement as a member of The R&R Hall of Fame ...  not to make a federal case of it, but here is a quote from the Official Congressional Record, Proceedings and Debates of the 107th Congress, First Session:  I refer you to page 18043 >>> https://books.google.com/books?id=_nd8ftr1zbgC&pg=PA18043&lpg=PA18043&dq=Is+Bruce+Johnston+a+member+of+the+Rock+and+Roll+Hall+of+Fame&source=bl&ots=LcnCDENPcP&sig=hcsyiH-P3znQFZ73x-yZ4ljNhds&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjE7JjB2uzMAhVKyoMKHWRvBWMQ6AEIVjAJ#v=onepage&q=Is%20Bruce%20Johnston%20a%20member%20of%20the%20Rock%20and%20Roll%20Hall%20of%20Fame&f=false

In this Congressional Record you will note that Mr. Johnston is cited several times, not only as a contributing member of The Beach Boys, but also for his philanthropic work for the betterment of mankind. To my way of thinking, if Bruce is a past, on and off, or currently performing Beach Boy, and Congress wishes to acknowledge his contribution to surfing music, Beach Boys included, as far as I'm concerned he is a member of the R&R Hall of Fame.

To conclude, Bruce Johnston is as integral to The Beach Boys as can be, In My Opinion. I don't give a sh*t what anyone says, Bruce has proven himself to be as much of a Beach Boy as Brian himself, who by the way, has abandon the group and given that tradition over to Michael and Bruce.
~swd
 


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