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Author Topic: Bubs & Judd Review No Pier Pressure  (Read 35878 times)
RiC
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« Reply #125 on: May 13, 2016, 06:46:11 AM »

These kind of threads are one of the many reasons this place is not worth visiting. It's such a shame really that a fan forum like Smiley Smile is mostly filled with bashing and negativity. Just look up the recent posts section and most of the threads (if already aren't, will turn) into throwing sh*t into some direction. Everybody has their own opinions for sure, but I just wonder how is it possible for people call themselves Beach Boys - or Brian Wilson fans when it seems all they can say is negative sh*t?

Anyway, I just keep on wondering why Runaway Dancer splits peoples opinions so radically? I love it. It was my most played song in 2015. And I still listen it almost weekly. It's awesome as hell and would be even better if the synths were more louder and tempo a bit faster.

I like No Pier Pressure a lot. It's a great listen from start to finish. Filled with amazing summertime and feel good music. The production ain't the best and there is some weaker moments, but overall they don't distract me or sabotage my listening experience. I do agree with this review at least in something though, and that's I'm Feeling Sad. It's a great tune, maybe even the best on the whole album.

I can explain my dislike for Runaway Dancer pretty easily.  I hate dance music.  

I hated the disco version of Here Comes the Night.

I hated the dabbling in rap on Summer of Love.

And I hate the EDM of Runaway Dancer.

Brian Wilson is one of the great composers of the rock era and always had a good solid band behind him, be it The Beach Boys, The Wrecking Crew, or his current band of Wondermints+.  To include an artificial EDM track on a Brian Wilson album just feels wrong to me.  

And despite my dislike for EDM, I tried hard to like the track.  I really did because I'm a fan of the album as a whole.  But when I hear those dance beats kick in, I just cringe.  

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I know a lot of posters on this board like hip hop, electronic, EDM, etc.  But, not for me.  And I can't believe that was one of four tracks on NPP that made the setlist last summer when there are literally a dozen tracks that would've been a better choice.  
I understand that. But in the same way I must say that I do like disco, I love electronic and I love even some good EDM. And Runaway Dancer stands out as a really classy electronic dance music song. It's completely in its own league. It has a cool 80s vibe but it doesn't sound dated. Anyway, what bugs me overall (not just here, but anywhere) is bashing out a song just because someone doesn't like the genre it represents. I personally don't like metal, but I can still appreciate it even if I don't listen to it because it's just not for me.
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« Reply #126 on: May 13, 2016, 06:47:52 AM »

There's good EDM to be found if you're willing to look; Runaway Dancer sounds more like imitation than innovation.
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« Reply #127 on: May 13, 2016, 06:49:55 AM »

I'm left a little speechless by this batshit crazy characterization of myself and Judd simply because we don't like NPP.

Gee "Bubs," I seem to have a distinct memory of your liking your copy of NPP when you first got it.  What happened?  What influence made it so "uncool?"  It's interesting to note who your fans are here.
I was wondering what took you so long to post in here. I know, we must tow the line with Brian. We must tow the line with Brian... Are you just a Brian Wilson groupie? Do actually like any of the other Beach Boys? Are you even a fan of the band? Any time I see you it is only about Brian. Remember, this is a BEACH BOYS board. Brian has his own site for his over glorification fans.


Whose line are you towing by generalizing Brian Wilson's fans who post to his own site as "over glorification fans", not to mention the other shots you (and Real BB) took at Brian's site/board in the past few days? So much for "we're all Beach Boys fans, we love all the band members, it's all about the music" if taking shots at a website community you don't seem to like at all (not to mention indirectly slamming the fans who do post there with these comments) takes precedence over...talking about the music.
Just because Brian writes music doesn't mean that it is all good, either from a song writing standpoint or from a production stand point. We know where you stand with NPP and that is terrific. Shoot, I wish I could praise the hell out of every album he has released. I always want to, but as whole albums, none of them move me enough to do so. It is something I would like to have discussion about, not someone tell me I am wrong, because this is Brian Wilson and everything he writes or produces is golden, and that I am wrong for expressing that displeasure.

Brian's board is mainly for Brian, and if one is inclined to only want to read Brian-centric posts, then they should go there if the talk here is not to their liking. I didn't agree with Bubs & Judd's assessment of every song, but it was entertaining to read their banter either pro or con about each song. It was actually nice for change to have chuckle while reading posts in here. The dramatics that go on in here sometimes become overwhelming at times and unpleasurable. We should all be here to have fun and share our feelings and insights about the band.
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As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
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« Reply #128 on: May 13, 2016, 06:52:08 AM »

These kind of threads are one of the many reasons this place is not worth visiting. It's such a shame really that a fan forum like Smiley Smile is mostly filled with bashing and negativity. Just look up the recent posts section and most of the threads (if already aren't, will turn) into throwing sh*t into some direction. Everybody has their own opinions for sure, but I just wonder how is it possible for people call themselves Beach Boys - or Brian Wilson fans when it seems all they can say is negative sh*t?

Anyway, I just keep on wondering why Runaway Dancer splits peoples opinions so radically? I love it. It was my most played song in 2015. And I still listen it almost weekly. It's awesome as hell and would be even better if the synths were more louder and tempo a bit faster.

I like No Pier Pressure a lot. It's a great listen from start to finish. Filled with amazing summertime and feel good music. The production ain't the best and there is some weaker moments, but overall they don't distract me or sabotage my listening experience. I do agree with this review at least in something though, and that's I'm Feeling Sad. It's a great tune, maybe even the best on the whole album.

I can explain my dislike for Runaway Dancer pretty easily.  I hate dance music.  

I hated the disco version of Here Comes the Night.

I hated the dabbling in rap on Summer of Love.

And I hate the EDM of Runaway Dancer.

Brian Wilson is one of the great composers of the rock era and always had a good solid band behind him, be it The Beach Boys, The Wrecking Crew, or his current band of Wondermints+.  To include an artificial EDM track on a Brian Wilson album just feels wrong to me.  

And despite my dislike for EDM, I tried hard to like the track.  I really did because I'm a fan of the album as a whole.  But when I hear those dance beats kick in, I just cringe.  

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I know a lot of posters on this board like hip hop, electronic, EDM, etc.  But, not for me.  And I can't believe that was one of four tracks on NPP that made the setlist last summer when there are literally a dozen tracks that would've been a better choice.  
I understand that. But in the same way I must say that I do like disco, I love electronic and I love even some good EDM. And Runaway Dancer stands out as a really classy electronic dance music song. It's completely in its own league. It has a cool 80s vibe but it doesn't sound dated. Anyway, what bugs me overall (not just here, but anywhere) is bashing out a song just because someone doesn't like the genre it represents. I personally don't like metal, but I can still appreciate it even if I don't listen to it because it's just not for me.

If I can't stand the genre, wouldn't logic dictate that I would dislike a song that conforms to that genre?  

I can understand you're liking Runaway Dancer if you're a fan of beat based music, and that's all well and good.  

I can appreciate country for what it is.  And even some older pop and R&B if their not my taste.  But rap, electronic, EDM, dance, techno, etc etc.  I'll respect someone's opinion who enjoys it, but I'm sorry, I just can't appreciate it in any real way.  
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« Reply #129 on: May 13, 2016, 06:53:52 AM »

There's good EDM to be found if you're willing to look; Runaway Dancer sounds more like imitation than innovation.

I've not heard any, and quite frankly, I'm not willing to seek out any.  I don't have as much time to devote to music as I used to, and I'd prefer to spend that time either listening to the music I already love or seeking out new or even older bands I overlooked in the rock world. 
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« Reply #130 on: May 13, 2016, 07:04:30 AM »

The fact that the album still evokes a lot of talk wether it's critizism or praise, tells to me that people are interested in it. Any artist would like to release a piece that splits peoples opinions in half. That's a very good sign. I know, it's just a year old album, but I bet it's going to evoke even more conversations in the near future. 
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« Reply #131 on: May 13, 2016, 07:07:18 AM »

These kind of threads are one of the many reasons this place is not worth visiting. It's such a shame really that a fan forum like Smiley Smile is mostly filled with bashing and negativity. Just look up the recent posts section and most of the threads (if already aren't, will turn) into throwing sh*t into some direction. Everybody has their own opinions for sure, but I just wonder how is it possible for people call themselves Beach Boys - or Brian Wilson fans when it seems all they can say is negative sh*t?

Anyway, I just keep on wondering why Runaway Dancer splits peoples opinions so radically? I love it. It was my most played song in 2015. And I still listen it almost weekly. It's awesome as hell and would be even better if the synths were more louder and tempo a bit faster.

I like No Pier Pressure a lot. It's a great listen from start to finish. Filled with amazing summertime and feel good music. The production ain't the best and there is some weaker moments, but overall they don't distract me or sabotage my listening experience. I do agree with this review at least in something though, and that's I'm Feeling Sad. It's a great tune, maybe even the best on the whole album.

I can explain my dislike for Runaway Dancer pretty easily.  I hate dance music.  

I hated the disco version of Here Comes the Night.

I hated the dabbling in rap on Summer of Love.

And I hate the EDM of Runaway Dancer.

Brian Wilson is one of the great composers of the rock era and always had a good solid band behind him, be it The Beach Boys, The Wrecking Crew, or his current band of Wondermints+.  To include an artificial EDM track on a Brian Wilson album just feels wrong to me.  

And despite my dislike for EDM, I tried hard to like the track.  I really did because I'm a fan of the album as a whole.  But when I hear those dance beats kick in, I just cringe.  

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I know a lot of posters on this board like hip hop, electronic, EDM, etc.  But, not for me.  And I can't believe that was one of four tracks on NPP that made the setlist last summer when there are literally a dozen tracks that would've been a better choice.  

I think I like 'Runaway Dancer' because it reminds me a lot of Love You...an album where Brian played many instruments on his own - including the synth - without a solid band behind him. 'Runaway Dancer' is a song drenched in synth, yet it still has fantastic harmonies and beautiful moments (specifically that bridge). It is Brian going completely against the flow of what people expect of him - which is something I think perhaps Brian does intentionally from time to time (Smiley Smile, Love You, etc).

And definitely to each their own, not saying you have to like it. But Brian doing an EDM song shouldn't feel 'wrong' to you at all...Brian has done nearly every genre in the book at this point. If anything, it's wonderful to see him trying new and different things.

@Bubbly Waves; definitely check out the Gershwin album sometime. If you search through the archives of this site, you'll run across a lot of great commentary on the making of the album. I also posted a song-by-song write up/bio for the album on Brian's forum: http://brianwilson.websitetoolbox.com/post/brian-wilson-reimagines-gershwin-apprecation-thread-7894626?trail=15

I think 'Nothing But Love' is in the top 5 of Brian's solo material, and the story behind it makes it that much better.
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« Reply #132 on: May 13, 2016, 07:08:08 AM »

NPP might very well be Brian's solo Love You with split opinions across the board.
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« Reply #133 on: May 13, 2016, 07:12:18 AM »

The fact that the album still evokes a lot of talk wether it's critizism or praise, tells to me that people are interested in it. Any artist would like to release a piece that splits peoples opinions in half. That's a very good sign. I know, it's just a year old album, but I bet it's going to evoke even more conversations in the near future. 

Most likely.

And please don't take my criticism for Runaway Dancer (and to a lesser extent Guess You Had to Be There) to mean I don't like the album. 

It's still my 2nd favorite BW solo album.  Without those two tracks, it would be an easy #1. 

I kinda think of those two tracks the same way I do about tracks like Bull Session with Big Daddy and Denny's Drums. 
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« Reply #134 on: May 13, 2016, 07:22:30 AM »

The fact that the album still evokes a lot of talk wether it's critizism or praise, tells to me that people are interested in it. Any artist would like to release a piece that splits peoples opinions in half. That's a very good sign. I know, it's just a year old album, but I bet it's going to evoke even more conversations in the near future.  
Well, we are all Beach Boys fans, so anything released is going to peak my interest. I have everything officially released by the band and as solo artists. I have it in duplicate, triplicate, etc. I could never be accused of not supporting the band. I've spent many Dineros buying and re-buying the music. I want every album released to be another Pet Sounds or Sunflower, but in the last 50 years that has not happened for me. Maybe for you, but not for me. I liked most of NPP when I first heard it, but in the last 6 months I have barely listened to it. Now ask me how many times I played Pet Sounds, Love You, Wild Honey, Sunflower or Today? Hell, I play them almost weekly. Of Brian's solo albums the only one that gets played on a regular basis by me is the Gershwin album. I love his renditions of the Porgy & Bess material. It fits his voice, he sings with passion and it moves me because he does so. You know though, at this point, I am happy that he is still writing and performing and that even though I don't like everything, I do like some things. I am grateful that he still wants to give us music and I will always support him for that whether I like everything or not.
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Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
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« Reply #135 on: May 13, 2016, 07:25:03 AM »

The fact that the album still evokes a lot of talk wether it's critizism or praise, tells to me that people are interested in it. Any artist would like to release a piece that splits peoples opinions in half. That's a very good sign. I know, it's just a year old album, but I bet it's going to evoke even more conversations in the near future.  
Well, we are all Beach Boys fans, so anything released is going to peak my interest. I have everything officially released by the band and as solo artists. I have it in duplicate, triplicate, etc. I could never be accused of not supporting the band. I've spent many Dineros buying and re-buying the music. I want every album released to be another Pet Sounds or Sunflower, but in the last 50 years that has not happened for me. Maybe for you, but not for me. I liked most of NPP when I first heard it, but in the last 6 months I have barely listened to it. Now ask me how many times I played Pet Sounds, Love You, Wild Honey, Sunflower or Today? Hell, I play them almost weekly. Of Brian's solo albums the only one that gets played on a regular basis by me is the Gershwin album. I love his renditions of the Porgy & Bess material. It fits his voice, he sings with passion and it moves me because he does so. You know though, at this point, I am happy that he is still writing and performing and that even though I don't like everything, I do like some things. I am grateful that he still wants to give us music and I will always support him for that whether I like everything or not.

In a career than spans over half a century, I think it's impossible for anybody to like everything.   

Pink Floyd is my favorite band of all time, and there's a couple of clunkers in their catalog, and their total output pales in comparison to The Beach Boys / Brian Wilson. 
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« Reply #136 on: May 13, 2016, 07:55:35 AM »

After an album as great sounding as TLOS, followed by the also amazing-sounding Gershwin record, I just don't get why the decision was made to go back with the too-slick-sounding Joe Thomas. I mean, I get the idea of wanting to have a "commercial" sounding record, and I get that Joe was perhaps the only way C50 and TWGMTR would have happened... but honestly the sound of Brian's solo career was at its absolute purest apex with TLOS, and there's really no comparison whatsoever in terms of repeated listenability and enjoyment, IMO.

I think the real reason Joe Thomas was brought back into the fold is this: he had (still has) a lot of unreleased Brian Wilson songs/ideas/snippets in his possession from their work together in the late '90s. Seems like there was a big burst of creativity from Brian in those '90s sessions with Joe and that maybe Brian and Melinda think that it's a well worth going back to. And in my opinion, if a healthy chunk of both That's Why God Made The Radio and No Pier Pressure do originate from those sessions then good on them. There's a lot of great stuff on both of those albums. If it is true that maybe Brian has had some trouble writing since TLOS then it's super helpful that Joe has all this stuff, and I'm sure having these bits and pieces spur Brian to make something out of them.

I consider this all a good thing. But then again, I'm weird and I consider both TWGMTR and NPP to be great albums while I find TLOS to be solid, but not particularly exciting.
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« Reply #137 on: May 13, 2016, 08:22:17 AM »

After an album as great sounding as TLOS, followed by the also amazing-sounding Gershwin record, I just don't get why the decision was made to go back with the too-slick-sounding Joe Thomas. I mean, I get the idea of wanting to have a "commercial" sounding record, and I get that Joe was perhaps the only way C50 and TWGMTR would have happened... but honestly the sound of Brian's solo career was at its absolute purest apex with TLOS, and there's really no comparison whatsoever in terms of repeated listenability and enjoyment, IMO.

I think the real reason Joe Thomas was brought back into the fold is this: he had (still has) a lot of unreleased Brian Wilson songs/ideas/snippets in his possession from their work together in the late '90s. Seems like there was a big burst of creativity from Brian in those '90s sessions with Joe and that maybe Brian and Melinda think that it's a well worth going back to. And in my opinion, if a healthy chunk of both That's Why God Made The Radio and No Pier Pressure do originate from those sessions then good on them. There's a lot of great stuff on both of those albums. If it is true that maybe Brian has had some trouble writing since TLOS then it's super helpful that Joe has all this stuff, and I'm sure having these bits and pieces spur Brian to make something out of them.

I consider this all a good thing. But then again, I'm weird and I consider both TWGMTR and NPP to be great albums while I find TLOS to be solid, but not particularly exciting.

I think that is a highly probable theory. There is some good stuff to be had on both albums, that is certain.  Nevertheless, to my ears, it was a definite step down in terms of production. I just wish they would've use that same logic and brought back Andy Paley! Talk about a well of good material that is just sitting and writing, without being finished and released.
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« Reply #138 on: May 13, 2016, 08:59:46 AM »

Even in describing "Runaway Dancer" as EDM, there is a disconnect between what opinions are about the genre and what the genre actually is, and who or what is considered EDM. I do not like the term EDM at all, because some use it to label everyone from Giorgio Moroder to Deadmau5, and it's not accurate. I'd wager most on this board wouldn't know a good 80% of artists who are actually performing and releasing music as EDM artists. It's not a genre that encapsulates anything with a dance beat and synth textures, yet it gets used as an incorrect label as often as "disco" had been at one time.

Capital Cities - of which Sebu is one half of the creative force behind the duo - is considered "indie pop" if you had to put them into a genre to be labeled. They worked writing and producing jingles in the advertising biz before putting together the album which had their biggest hit "Safe And Sound", and that was a massive hit on contemporary pop and alternative radio. It crossed those demographics to the point where it was heard on alternative stations, top 40 stations, and is now even heard on the various stations with the words "KISS" or "STAR" as their call signs. And, no surprise due to that appeal for marketers, the song made the band another good paycheck through advertising when it got picked up after its initial chart run to be used in national TV and multimedia ad campaigns.

Point is - They were not considered EDM if we're talking formats and demographics.

Unless Skrillex, Deadmau5, Diplo, and any number of current and former less well-known EDM artists are as widely played across formats as Capital Cities, it shows EDM is still, for those who know the genre and the artists, a pretty specific sound and genre even though some try to shoehorn anything with a 4-on-the-floor beat and synths into being called EDM.

Is that saying that Sebu himself does not work in EDM or with EDM artists and festivals? Of course not. He DJ's various festivals and events with other EDM artists and DJ's whose names are familiar to followers of that genre but generally unknown to those who do not follow the scenes. But Capital Cities as they're most well known with their hits is not EDM.

"Runaway Dancer" is not EDM. People who write and perform EDM would say it's not EDM.

If anything it was right in line with what Sebu had success with when Safe And Sound became a monster hit. There was a lot of returning back to 80's synth-pop sounds and production quirks, and those sounds were all over indie pop, top 40 pop and dance, and other mainstream genres, even alternative formats were full of warbly over-chorused guitar tones and analog synths that were straight from the sonic palettes of old Oberheims and Junos and even 808's that were all over early 80's top 40 radio.

It was a sound that was both new to the current target demographic, and familiar enough to be nostalgic for the generation that grew up on it, which is why quite a few of these songs like Capital Cities' "Safe And Sound" crossed over. The sounds were familiar to some, and new enough to attract others. And the song was catchy as hell, full of multiple sonic and musical hooks, and had a good beat so you could dance to it (nod to Bandstand's Rate-A-Record...)

So Sebu brought THAT to the table with Brian's song. And like his sounds on Capital Cities tracks, it evokes a certain style of music that appeals to multiple listeners, while some simply don't like those sounds. It captured some of the sonic aura especially in the instrumental breaks and with the percolating synth-driven rhythmic sequences that wouldn't be out of place if you found a Miami Vice episode from 1985 on TV during one of Crockett's "driving fast through empty Miami streets at night" musical interludes.

In other words Sebu brought to the table exactly what he was able to bring to the table. Take an existing song, which was pretty much written and structured a certain way, and tweak it while adding some sonic hooks and textures to put his stamp on the overall production. I think it works.

And if anyone still considers this EDM, and can't get into the song because they "don't like EDM", consider doing this:

Go to YouTube. Search for these three names, three of the more familiar artists in the EDM genre, and play one of their performances as found on YouTube: Steve Aoki, Deadmau5, and Diplo. Do those artists or the recommendations of other artists that come up on YouTube sound like Runaway Dancer?

Or could it be the attempts to label something and anything as a certain genre in order to fit for the marketing campaigns, or in some cases, to put something into a category to have an excuse for not liking it beyond the simple opinion of not liking it?

As in "I don't like disco".
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« Reply #139 on: May 13, 2016, 09:17:34 AM »

Also, I haven't actually heard too much of Brian's solo output myself. I've listened to BW88 a couple times (and it's decent--"MELT AWAY" IS THE BEST THING EVER), and TLOS once or twice, but that's pretty much the extent of it. So, when it comes to my thoughts on No Pier Pressure, they're not informed by the experience of listening to most of Brian's other solo outings.

That's good to know. Your experience with Brian's solo output which is now up to 28 years' worth of solo releases and over a dozen albums including albums of originals and covers plus live releases is limited to a few spins of TLOS, a few more than that for BW 88, and a copy of NPP that sounds like someone gave to you as a gift.

It would seem this thread's rolling commentary on NPP might have come from places other than a love of Brian and caring deeply for what comes down the pike if at least one reviewer admits to not listening to or even knowing Brian's discography other than a few spins of two BW solo albums. I'd also ask at that point if the disappointment in this latest album comes from that lack of knowledge of what Brian's solo music actually is or what it sounded like when he wasn't cutting records with and for the Beach Boys.

Craig, this is bullshit. Please stop trying to discredit my opinion because you don't agree with it. Do I have to read the entire bibliography of Dostoevsky before I can pass judgement on Crime & Punishment? Do I have to watch the entirety of Polanski's films before I can decide whether or not I think Rosemary's Baby is good? It's music, not a foreign language. What it actually sounds like you're saying is the rest of Brian's output is bad, and my expectations would be tempered for this album if I had exposed myself to them. Whatever. Don't presume to know what my feelings for Brian are, lest you hop on Debbie's paranoid weirdo train. I've been a part of this website for 3 years now because I love what he's created, but just like every other human being, he isn't without faults. Additionally, as one extra bonus rebuttal, No Pier Pressure is the only non-compilation, Beach-Boys-related item to "come down the pike" while I've been an active fan.
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« Reply #140 on: May 13, 2016, 09:21:36 AM »

My apologies for not doing this originally. Save the search time, just point and click to hear EDM as of 2015 when Runaway Dancer was released, followed by Runaway Dancer itself. For sake of comparison.

Steve Aoki live performance, May 2015:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk_95UxFwxQ

Skrillex live performance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2VmcuOEqEg

Diplo live performance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjXdgowYmVU


Compare those to Runaway Dancer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp6oQmSvGC4


I only offer those because labeling and trying to categorize something that it's not to the point where some won't be into it based on what label it's given can cause music people may like to fall by the wayside.

Or if you simply don't like it, you don't like it. Simple as that.
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« Reply #141 on: May 13, 2016, 09:41:57 AM »

As a fan myself, and knowing as we all learned as children that opinions can and do change, I'm curious *why* in this case, or what made them change so drastically.

Really, there has been no drastic change in opinion for me. See this review I posted four months after the album came out. My opinions have continued to form and solidify the longer I've been familiar with the album. Yes, it seems to be in a negative direction, but that's just what happened. Psychologically-speaking, strong opinions become even more extreme when they're challenged.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 09:49:30 AM by Bubs » Logged
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« Reply #142 on: May 13, 2016, 09:46:16 AM »

NPP might very well be Brian's solo Love You with split opinions across the board.

That might not be too far off. Although, I'm heavily pro-Love You. Wonderful album.


@Bubbly Waves; definitely check out the Gershwin album sometime. If you search through the archives of this site, you'll run across a lot of great commentary on the making of the album. I also posted a song-by-song write up/bio for the album on Brian's forum: http://brianwilson.websitetoolbox.com/post/brian-wilson-reimagines-gershwin-apprecation-thread-7894626?trail=15

I think 'Nothing But Love' is in the top 5 of Brian's solo material, and the story behind it makes it that much better.

I own the album, and I will get to it. I know it's supposed to be great. All this other music just keeps getting in the way. Tongue
Soon, I promise.
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« Reply #143 on: May 13, 2016, 09:53:39 AM »

I guess you can still be of the opinion something sucks even if you don't know the genre.
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« Reply #144 on: May 13, 2016, 10:28:52 AM »

I guess you can still be of the opinion something sucks even if you don't know the genre.

The difference is a review (or reviewers) has or should be expected to have the responsibility to the readers to come from a place of knowledge or experience when offering the review. A review is opinion, yes, but if a reviewer is going to publish and take it to a different level than simply offering opinions as any random person will do when experiencing something and offering a reaction to it, they should at least be more knowledgeable and aware of the area they're reviewing than a random person reacting to something. Two examples:

The classical and jazz music worlds can be a little stuffy, a little pretentious in the wrong hands, of course. But would a publication or anyone for that matter hire and send a writer/reviewer whose expertise is punk rock and alternative music who has little or no knowledge of jazz or classical music to review a jazz concert featuring the compositions of Charles Mingus or critique a classical concert featuring the works of Stravinsky when that writer is unfamiliar with the bodies of work from those composers and has no frame of reference other than a gut-level reaction upon hearing it? Would those publications or even that writer then expect their readers to weigh the writings and critiques of someone totally unfamiliar with those genres of music and the history of the music as anywhere close to the words of someone who instead has a working knowledge of who and what they're writing about?

It separates the responsibility if not the burden of both the reviewer and the outlet that publishes the review as journalism and critical or analytical music writing from anyone's ability to start a blog or post on any online outlet and post opinions 'til the cows come home. But which are presented as informed opinions and analysis versus gut-level reactions?

The issues John Manning raised regarding commercial reviews and market-specific publications publishing reviews applies as well to something as specific as the world of guitar gear and equipment.

The trend has been for years to emulate classic gear that has since become valued out of the range of most players who are not successful beyond the norm or else the weekend warriors who work and do business on the golf course during the week and like to unwind on weekends over cigar and whiskey get-togethers while strumming Skynrd tunes on a '59 Les Paul through a '65 blackface Fender Twin that their regular jobs could afford to finance.

So companies make products like affordable plug-ins for various devices like iPhones, iPads, and any number of DAW recording setups that are supposed to offer the sound of a '65 Fender Twin.

If I read a review of such a product emulating a '65 Fender Twin, I would expect that the reviewer took the time and effort to have either plugged into an actual vintage '65 Twin for a true A/B comparison, or at least have had previous experience either owning or playing through a real '65 Twin at some point in order to form the opinion on which the review is based.

If they did not, then both praising this emulation of a '65 Twin by saying "I plugged into this plug-in and it nailed the sound of a '65 Twin!" or "this plug-in falls short of sounding like a real '65 Twin" is simply dishonest and not coming from a place of knowledge. It's just someone's gut-level reaction and should not be elevated to being presented as a knowledgeable review.

And my own gut-level feeling is that some of the reviewers who might be writing about the latest plug-ins to emulate a '65 Twin could be put into a room and given a blind test, where a real '65 blackface Twin, a 70's master-volume silverface Twin, an 80's red-knob Twin, and a Line 6 Pod set to the Twin preset would not be distinguishable. Yet, players who know their field of work and are legitimately knowledgeable about vintage amps could probably pick them out quite easily because they know the differences in sound and response between each.

So, a review has to come from a place of knowledge and hands-on experience, and there is or should still be a place in the market for that versus anyone who wants to start a blog account to post opinion after opinion coming from far less an authoritative or knowledgeable position.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 10:31:30 AM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #145 on: May 13, 2016, 10:47:30 AM »

Exactly right. And that's why my multiple years of listening to Brian Wilson's music makes me a knowledgeable and experienced reviewer.
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« Reply #146 on: May 13, 2016, 11:01:51 AM »

Exactly right. And that's why my multiple years of listening to Brian Wilson's music makes me a knowledgeable and experienced reviewer.

I was answering Cam's post and also getting back to what John Manning shared about his own professional experience writing and publishing product reviews, but to answer this: By your own admission you've played two out of the dozen or so solo albums that Brian has released since 1988, and even those only a few times. If your frame of reference and base of working knowledge on Brian's solo discography is formed by what you heard from Brian on 40 or 50 year old Beach Boys albums that Brian made versus what he has done in his solo career, how is that presenting experience as influencing what you're setting out to review? If listeners are buying a solo Brian record with the expectation they'll be hearing "Summer Days..." or "Today" or any others versus what Brian has done as a solo artist, they're coming from an almost unrealistic point of expectation. There are plenty of copycat bands and artists if people want to hear the 1965 "Brian sound" in 2016, but Brian is 50 years older and his solo material is simply not along those lines, rather it's what he chooses to write and how he chooses his music to sound in the present day. It would be the same if someone who has only played two previous McCartney albums a few times reviews a newer solo McCartney album using his Beatles catalog as a reference point and expects to hear another "Hey Jude" or "We Can Work It Out", or someone buying then reviewing a newer Clapton solo release expects him to play and sound like he did on Fresh Cream, having only listened to 461 Ocean Boulevard or Layla from his solo catalog.
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« Reply #147 on: May 13, 2016, 11:05:35 AM »

I like about three or four tracks off this, but I don't think the good songs even approach the quality of the last four tracks from TWGMTR. It's a bit... bland, not unlike Imagination, though I think that has two or three really good NEW songs (though the production values are worse than NPP). To be honest, apart from BW88 (once you get past that awful late 80s production sound), none of Brian's albums do a great deal for me, though this is nowhere near the overpolished turd that is GIOMH (which, lest we forget, did have about three or four good songs on it, swamped by awful arrangements). It's not that I'm one of those railing against autotune - if the song's good, I could care less, bearing in mind the guy's age and the state of his voice - nor I'm looking for the Lovester's ghastly fun in the sun nostalgic sh*t, I'd just like to hear something that's musically interesting - half as interesting as From There To Back Again or the tune of What I Really Want For Christmas (tune, not lyrics) would be a start. I don't even hear that on most of TLOS; ambitious as the project is, I think there are a few great songs on there, but I'll pass on the rest. I also don't like the Brian as franchise thing - Gershwin, Disney, Christmas with maybe Rock and Roll to come. Then again, I don't like the Dylan as franchise thing either. Of course, neither owe us a thing, but as fans, we live in hope.

I reckon that out of Brian's solo albums (and Orange Crate Art), apart from 88, I could make a double album (a side and half in CD terms) of good stuff - so, um, about 20 tracks:

1.   This Song Wants To Sleep With You Tonight
2.   Cry
3.   Lay Down Burden
4.   Happy Days
5.   Orange Crate Art
6.   Wings of a Dove
7.   California Feeling
8.   What I Really Want For Christmas
9.   How Could We Still Be Dancing
10. Gettin' In Over My Head
11. City Blues
12. Don't Let Her Know She's An Angel
13. That Lucky Old Sun/Morning Beat
14. Live Let Live (I prefer the one that wasn't on TLOS)
15. Midnight's Another Day/Lucky Old Sun
16. This Beautiful Day
17. Tell Me Why
18. Sail Away
19. I'm Feeling Sad
20. Half Moon Bay

Would I really want the Christmas song or Half Moon Bay? Dunno. Nothing on here's as good as From There To Back Again, though.




« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 11:07:18 AM by Smilin Ed H » Logged
Cam Mott
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« Reply #148 on: May 13, 2016, 11:07:12 AM »

I guess this isn't our grandfathers' review.
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« Reply #149 on: May 13, 2016, 11:07:44 AM »

Exactly right. And that's why my multiple years of listening to Brian Wilson's music makes me a knowledgeable and experienced reviewer.

I was answering Cam's post and also getting back to what John Manning shared about his own professional experience writing and publishing product reviews, but to answer this: By your own admission you've played two out of the dozen or so solo albums that Brian has released since 1988, and even those only a few times. If your frame of reference and base of working knowledge on Brian's solo discography is formed by what you heard from Brian on 40 or 50 year old Beach Boys albums that Brian made versus what he has done in his solo career, how is that presenting experience as influencing what you're setting out to review? If listeners are buying a solo Brian record with the expectation they'll be hearing "Summer Days..." or "Today" or any others versus what Brian has done as a solo artist, they're coming from an almost unrealistic point of expectation. There are plenty of copycat bands and artists if people want to hear the 1965 "Brian sound" in 2016, but Brian is 50 years older and his solo material is simply not along those lines, rather it's what he chooses to write and how he chooses his music to sound in the present day. It would be the same if someone who has only played two previous McCartney albums a few times reviews a newer solo McCartney album using his Beatles catalog as a reference point and expects to hear another "Hey Jude" or "We Can Work It Out", or someone buying then reviewing a newer Clapton solo release expects him to play and sound like he did on Fresh Cream, having only listened to 461 Ocean Boulevard or Layla from his solo catalog.


I wonder.. would you have gone through all this trouble if my review was positive? I mean, I know the answer, but still.
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